religion repression

[Paul bunyan]

now that Armenia is becoming more and more a real democracy its time that Armenia rid itself of its fascist religious repression laws that legaly

negate the right of free exercise of religious belief guarenteed by the Armenian constitution.

[MJ]

Where did you take this from, Paul?

 

Besides, what has ever been more repressive, and has had more fascistic consequences than religion?

[Boghos]

I can´t say about other Armenian political parties, but the Ramgavar oath says that you will defend the "mayr eghehetsi". A Liberal Democratic party that pledges allegiance to the church.

[bellthecat]

Don't Americans do the same?

[Boghos]

I don´t know, good question. American society in the hinterland is deeply religious, Tocqueville´s Democracy in America is still quite valid.

 

But of course one thing does not excuse the other. In many European countries you pay taxes for the natioanl church, such as Sweden. I think these are optative now.

[MJ]

America has a lot of elements of a (multi-) religious country. Clearly, it has been founded on such grounds. However, I am not aware of religious persecution in America.

[nairakev]

What about Armenia? We are talking about Armenia, right?...

[MJ]

There was a specific question about America.

As far as Armenia goes, I don't think there is religious freedom there. However, the primary persecutor of religious freedoms in Armenia is the Armenian Church, as always.

[Guest]

to whom it may concern

 

Are there any Mosque's in Armenia today ?

how does a muslim person in armenia live ?

 

Is being an armenian synonomous with being a christian ?

 

How about a concept of a jewish or muslim armenian ?

Is it silly to consider these questions from the point of view of an armenian ?

 

thanks for the anwers

[surorus]

Yes there are Mosque's in Armenian and muslims primerely Kurds.

However, I know one thing for sure, that muslims much less presecuted in chritian countties than christians are in muslim countries.

[Paul bunyan]

AMERICA DOES NOT OPPRESS RELIGIOUS RIGHTS!!! bellthecat, human rights are given to humans as the gift of God the the right of the people to worship without hinderance is the foundation of all the rights Americans enjoy also because we do not have a state church like Armenia or Ireland or England of old which used to persecute protestants that would not conform to "right church" the Armenian Orthodox Church got a fascist law passed to prohibit "prothylitise" (a hope this is an accurate spelling, ) which is a way of explaining the love of Jesus Christ through personal witness Gospel songs, and church services non Orthdox

groups must register with the government like during the communist era hoodlums with political protection

sadly, they were Karabagh veterans,

invaded protestant houses, beat up the inhabitants even though they were American Protestants destroyed valuable property the police did not arrest the hoodlum fascists but the AMERICAN PROTESTANTS! Amnesty International has full reports on

the bigoted violent attacks on non Orthodox groups

[bellthecat]

Well, I could be mischevous and say, "I didn't see much evidence of the right for people to worship without hinderance at Waco". But the point I should have made earlier is that people can be represive and have repressive laws without them realising that their actions and laws are repressive and wrong. The end result is those laws in Armenia that you are totally correct to condemn. The difficult bit is getting the people to get over their predjudices - until they do that, the problem will remain.

As for America, I think it is very strange the way "God" seems to be casually inserted into every aspect of American life - in almost every statement made by your current president, God is mentioned somewhere, there is the "in God we trust" thing on all your banknotes, the power of fundamentalist religious lobby groups, etc? You might think all that is perfectly normal and OK, but seen from the outside it is a weird thing for any secular democracy to be doing. (Replace "God" with "Allah" and see what the effect is!)

Steve

[Paul bunyan]

david khoresh, was a "jim jones" type of egomaniac he was never persecuted for is self made religion evidence shows he was responsible for the inflammation of his flimsy fortress and deaths of his followers and their innocent children

also all governments govern by the consent of the governed in this country where the majority of people are Christians its only natural that the Almighty's name would appear on the currency in an Islamic country where obviously the majority of the people are muslim they can put the name of their supreme being on their monies if they choose

[MJ]

Steve,

 

The Waco incedent had nothing to do with the right of worshiping, but rather it was a "posession of arms" type of incedent, plus sexual molestation of underaged.

[Berj]

Let's suppose a very rich person (a no-end-illioner) arrives in America, sets up a religious organisation and starts to buy believers in the most poor state of the US. When he buys out the 90% of the population he formes a national guard unit to protect his believers who give him go ahead to declare independence. What do you think will be the actions of the US govt.?

[MJ]

Berj,

 

We can always find hypothetical questions, to which it would be hard to find answer.

 

However, restriciting one's right to join whatever sect is one of the most despeakable acts of totalitarianism, which cannot be justified under any scenario.

[Berj]

MJ,

 

You are right! Should the activities and the rights of a sect to spread information be limited to public preaching, public disputes, debates, dialogs?

[MJ]

The activities of the sect should be directed, in my view, at converting the 'non-faithful" to their religion, and enhancing the spirituality of their followers. They should not have anything to do with army, politics, economics, etc.

 

The state and religion/church should be (and I understand it is the case in Armenia, formally) separated from each other.

[Berj]

Agree.

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by surorus:


Yes there are Mosque's in Armenian and muslims primerely Kurds.

However, I know one thing for sure, that muslims much less presecuted in chritian countties than christians are in muslim countries.

---

I don't agree with the things you say.
Kurds of Armenia are yezidi as I have heared not Moslem. But the biggest part of your answer which I don't agree with is that the moslems in the Christian countries are less persecuted than the Christians in the moslem countries, this is absolutely not.

For example in Spain during the Islamic rule there were Catholic and Jewish peopl, but when the catholics took over they expelled all the jews and Moslems from Spain.
And look at Bosnia, the Bosnian moslems underwent a Genocide y their Christan neigbours in their own homeland.

[MJ]

You are simply wrong. Yezidies of Armenia are Yesidis. While ethically they may be Kurds, there is a significant and distinct Kurdis Muslim minority in Armenia.

[Guest]

according to both zoroastrians and yezidies themselves their religion is a version of zoroastrianism.

[MJ]

But it doesn't negate the fact of existence of significant Kurdish Muslim minority in Armenia, does it?

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MJ:
But it doesn't negate the fact of existence of significant Kurdish Muslim minority in Armenia, does it?

---

no it doesn't negate, but this makes the number of moslems in Armenia much smaller.

[MJ]

Much smaller than what?