important about Armenia or The Changes That We* like To S

[edward demian]

The real secret to atracting men into the Army is the benefits one gets from the army as a veteran.

As a US military veteran I am entitled to many things.

1. I can purchase with just 1 US Dollar "downpayment" any approved home or farm up to (last time I checked) $175,000

2. I am entitled to tuition for up to 4 years of University Education or vocational training. (The money was sufficient to sustain a family with)

3. Free lifetime medical care.

4. Entitled to a business loan or farm loan equal in value to #1.

5. Free burial plot and service.

6. If I die before my children mature, survivor benefits go to my family and chilldren until they are 18 years old.

7. If I die in the service, my family gets $10,000

8. If I'm not a cityzen, I'm guaranteed cityzenship after my first term of enlistment. However it is not automatic and one has to apply like all others. All the same laws and rules apply as to criminal record etc.

Additionally, As a California Veteran, I can buy another House or farm anywhere in the country for an amount comparable to the Federal Package.

 

These benefits change for new comers but they stay the same for the veterans. So the deal you make when you sign up or are drafted is the deal you die with.

 

That's what inteligent nations do for their veterans. The Romans used to offer cityzenship and 40 acres and a mule upon retirement from the Legion. Both the American Army and the Roman Legion had a surplus of volunteers.

 

Before you say that Armenia is too poor and cannot afford this. Let me tell you that the program is self sustaining financially. The mortgage payments from the Home and Farm loans pay for everything. The government does not have to add anything to the fund.

 

The problem with the Armenian Army is the political leadership of the country. The same old Communists running the country and keeping all fresh ideas and diasporan Armenians from participation. Armenia has an opportunity of becoming the Switzerland of the Caucasus instead it chooses to be the Albania of the Caucasus. Without universal Armenian cityzenship for all Armenians, it will remain as is.

[sen_Vahan]

Edward, thanks for your input!

 

"The real secret to atracting men into the Army is the benefits one gets from the army as a veteran.As a US military veteran I am entitled to many things.

1. I can purchase with just 1 US Dollar "downpayment" any approved home or farm up to (last time I checked) $175,000

2. I am entitled to tuition for up to 4 years of University Education or vocational training. (The money was sufficient to sustain a family with)

3. Free lifetime medical care.

4. Entitled to a business loan or farm loan equal in value to #1.

5. Free burial plot and service.

6. If I die before my children mature, survivor benefits go to my family and chilldren until they are 18 years old.

7. If I die in the service, my family gets $10,000

8. If I'm not a cityzen, I'm guaranteed cityzenship after my first term of enlistment. However it is not automatic and one has to apply like all others. All the same laws and rules apply as to criminal record etc.

Additionally, As a California Veteran, I can buy another House or farm anywhere in the country for an amount comparable to the Federal Package.These benefits change for new comers but they stay the same for the veterans. So the deal you make when you sign up or are drafted is the deal you die with.

That's what inteligent nations do for their veterans. The Romans used to offer cityzenship and 40 acres and a mule upon retirement from the Legion. Both the American Army and the Roman Legion had a surplus of volunteers."

 

edward, do you think it is a real thing to do in Armenia with her mandatory army service?

 

"Before you say that Armenia is too poor and cannot afford this. Let me tell you that the program is self sustaining financially. The mortgage payments from the Home and Farm loans pay for everything. The government does not have to add anything to the fund."

 

I don't think one can even take a loan/credit in a bank in Armenia, so, I am not sure this may work.At least in the near future.

 

"The problem with the Armenian Army is the political leadership of the country. The same old Communists running the country and keeping all fresh ideas and diasporan Armenians from participation. Armenia has an opportunity of becoming the Switzerland of the Caucasus instead it chooses to be the Albania of the Caucasus. Without universal Armenian cityzenship for all Armenians, it will remain as is."

 

edward, I did not know armenian leadres were old communists, I guess you're wrong here. But the idea of giving the citizenship to everybody who wants it is a good one. But what we have today is that arm citizens do a lot to change their citizenship.

 

Vahan

[Alla]

Isk, orinak vat cher lini ete Hayastanum hatuk orenk hanein vor Axchikner@ nuinpes banakum partavoren tsaraielu.

ES chem asum vor axchikner@ anein nuin@ inch txanernen anum banakum, baits gone mi dzevi axchiknernel patrastven. ES shat kuzenai hayastanum banakum tsarael, ev ete petka krvei, kani vor ete es kam mus@ che el ov piti ergir@ pashtpani. Indz tvume vor te txa te axchik partavoren hayastani banakum tsaraiel. Himael vor shat mardik heranumen hayastanits, indz tvuma vor bolornen partavor tsarael, te txa te axchk, vortev Hayastani apagan kaxvatsa meznits, bolor hayerits.

Hayer@ piti miaxmbven u mtatsen te vonts es iravichakits durs gal, kani shuta.

Menk orenkov piti role model lineink mer harevanneri hamar, baits de role model lineluts menk hl@ shat heruenk, ev hl@ hartsa klinenk te chenk lini mi or. Es uzumem havatal vor klinenk, kani vor Hima Hayastan@ der antsumain shrjanume gtnvum, ev ete menk xelok sksenk varvel, uremn hayastan@ kkaroxanank tsaxkatsnel.

Menk haziv ankaxutunenk statsel ev unenk mer arandzin ergir@ vortex aprumenk miain menk, hamozvatsem vor mer anxniner@ kerazein unenal ain inch statselenk menk aisor, dra hamar kani shuta piti tsaxkatsnenk hayastan@ voch miain mer hamar, ail hetaga hayeri hamar vorornk patmutian grkeri mech aisorva masin kkardan. Ainpes anenk vor aisor chlini vonts ain txur u dajan haykakan patmutian ejerits mek@.

[SAS]

Alla,

 

Hayastanum chka orenq, vor chtuylatri oriordnerin banakum tsarayelu...

 

Aynpes vor, der karogh es kananc gndi hramanatar darnal:

[sen_Vahan]

Hi, Alla!

 

"Isk, orinak vat cher lini ete Hayastanum hatuk orenk hanein vor Axchikner@ nuinpes banakum partavoren tsaraielu."

 

Erevi lav kliner, bayz orenk, vor' argelum e kananz banakum zarael minchev hima chka.. Ete zankazogner linen, miangamiz kmznen ayd orenk' ugi meg:

 

"ES chem asum vor axchikner@ anein nuin@ inch txanernen anum banakum, baits gone mi dzevi axchiknernel patrastven. ES shat kuzenai hayastanum banakum tsarael, ev ete petka krvei, kani vor ete es kam mus@ che el ov piti ergir@ pashtpani. Indz tvume vor te txa te axchik partavoren hayastani banakum tsaraiel. Himael vor shat mardik heranumen hayastanits, indz tvuma vor bolornen partavor tsarael, te txa te axchk, vortev Hayastani apagan kaxvatsa meznits, bolor hayerits."

 

Hayastaniz gnum ein mardik ev minchev hima gnum en: Ba vonz anenk en gnazazner' het? Kez tvum e nrank bolor@ meki pes kgan kzarayen? Vonz kareli e anel, vor ayd gahelner' Karoganan erkir mtnel ev durs gal aranz vaxi, te banak ktanen?

 

Vahan

[SAS]

Vahan,

 

mite ches zgum, vor du yev Allan tarber lezunerov eq xosum?

 

Allan dzhgohum e, vor banakum aghjikneri PARTADIR tsarayutyan masin orenq chka,

 

isk du, vor tghaneri hamar chka... banakum CH'TSARAYELU orenq...

[sen_Vahan]

SAS jan,

 

mi angam el Alla-i namak@ skzbiz minchev verg karda,plz... Ink@ tarber baner e nshum:

Vahan

[alpha]

I guess I don’t have a moral right to have an opinion about this topic, since I am one of the deserters of the army, however I have strong opinions about it. First and foremost whoever has been in army garrisons of Armenian army will testify that it’s a complete disaster. The “dedavshina” system inherited from Soviet Army has prospered and reached new heights. The military policeman are acting like real thugs and instead of reinforcing laws they are engaged in bullying new recruits and demanding some kind of monetary payout The food and living facilities are below any standard. Most young people that get out of there have some kind of stomach disease.

 

The fundamental problems of Armenian army are derived from lack of professionals among Generals and under funding. If there was a way to implement a system where a person can pay his way out of the army it should also be taken into consideration. I think the fee should not be astronomical number like $10,000 but something in the vicinity of $2-3,000. Everyone who wants to avoid serving in the army should pay as much as it takes to maintain decent living conditions for 2 army recruits in the army. If the amount is too high it will simply increase already high level of corruption.

 

The system of pardoning deserters should be done very carefully in order not to promote such activity. I know I might sound like a hypocrite, but people like me who have deserted the army should be derived of Armenian citizenship. It will alienate many people and will push them to obtain a citizenship of a country they fled to, but it’s one of the fundamental requirements of being a citizen of Armenia, participate in defending its borders and security.

 

Although it’s the most organized army in former Soviet Union, but it has a long way to go to reach western standards. I think Armenian army can be modeled based on the example of Israeli Army, where the smartest ones are recruited and gone through special training. It’s a great privilege and an honor to serve in the elite unit of Israeli army (synonymous to getting into an Ivy League school in US). They get great technical skills.

[MosJan]

Alla jan mer Axchikner@ arden isk mi DRAXTAYIN kyanqi mej chen HAyastanum - hima el Banak tanenq kam mi Gyumretsy @enker unem espes kaser - dzo me banme mnatsel ora menak trerqov@ genenq en el kuzeq dzerneres arniq -

 

axchik@ kam kin@ ov tsankanum e tsarayel Banakum - HAyastanum ka Kanant gund karor e tsarayel iynter - sakayn chem kartsum e partadir darstnel@ lav e - sakayn kareli e patradir zinvorakan daseri urrarkel - naxkinum kar et tesak mi ban CCCP jamanak hima chgitem ka te voch.

 

Alpha $2-3000 shat chnchin gumar e vor 1 kam 2 zinvori hamar bavarar paymaner stertsy - sakayn yete ushadir nayes mardik 5-8.000 tsaxsum en aporinni tsarayutyunits azatvelu hamar Hayastanum. kartsum em 4-5,000 aveli jisht e - Artasahmanitsyekor@ ov tariner antskatsrel e iynter yev ashxatel 4-5hazar kartsum em karror e vcharel, tekuz yev djvarutyamb.

tor stanan voroshaki zijum yete veradarnum en Hayreniq bardzraguyn k@rtutyun statsats, yev kam Arhesti kam arvesty masnaget dartsats -nerdnen irents jamanak@ - petutyan hamar -

 

sakain yete nayes iyspes - iys mek popoxutyun mtsnnelov vorqan kasharq talu janaparhner e pakvum - k@rjatvum e bavakanin

 

qani qani bjishkner - el $$$ chen stanalu - vortev "nigodni" hanelu kariq chka.

[sen_Vahan]

Hi, Alpha

 

I agree with what you are saying. I think 2-3000$ for those in the country and up to 2 times more for those outside Armenia would be a good idea. But as Mosjan posted it will shorten the "kashark" for many people including a number of doctors.So, one needs to go against the present-day establishment in the country to get all these things mentioned by you and all of us in this topic. Is it possible to do that?

 

Vahan

[sen_Vahan]

Asking for contributions is not a bad idea I think. At least it is an opened act from country's officials. Yes, Armenia does not ask for that, she has some financial support for the army from the Diasporas but I am not sure that money is being spent for military proposes or for increaseing the army's standards of life. There were many cases when Armenian and Artsax military officials spent that contributions for other purposes - for their personal, for instanse. So, we don't ask for help, we have it and "know how to use it"..

[MosJan]

yete harts@ nviratvutyan masin e espes te enpes mer jorovurd@ misht el nvirum e Hayots banakin - bavakanin mardik kan vro ktakel en irent unetsvatsqi vorosh mas@ Haytots banakin.

 

hetaqrqir mi depq er mi qani tary araj yerb mek@ mahanum er barekamner@ haytararum eyin vor - tarman arrarorutyan jamanak tsaxkepsak urrarkelu poxaren iyd dram@ urrarkeq Hayots banakin kam iys kam iyn baregortsakan kazmakerputyan@ yev kam worrbanotsnerin...

[MosJan]

mi poqer havelum - yete iharke chem sxalvum - nayev iys nuyn dzevov kam n@manatip paymanerov arajarkel nayev iyn Hayerin ovqer tsankanum en Yerkqaraqatsiutyn@

 

yet tsankanum en nayev HAyastani Qaraqatsy - karor e ir profesyonal luman nerdni HAyastanum - tsarayi banakum - kam vjari ir tsarayutyan hamar, kam nerdni ir jamanak@ karj jamanakov. @est masnagitutyan@ - @entaniqi karrorutyan - tariqi -

 

inch kaseq

?

[Alla]

Gone mer banak@ irants banaki pes muratskan chi

 

Wanted: philanthropists to pay for Azerbaijan army

 

Agence France Presse

August 20, 2002

 

BAKU, Aug 20 -- The former Soviet republic of Azerbaijan is resorting

to charity to help fund its cash-strapped armed forces, local media

reported Tuesday quoting government officials.

 

President Heidar Aliyev has ordered the creation of a charitable fund

to receive contributions from patriotic-minded philanthropists and

channel the cash to the military, according to the Ekho newspaper.

"We will collect revenues from all benefactors who want to contribute.

With the help of this fund we will strengthen our armed forces," the

paper quoted Ramiz Melikov, head of the defense ministry's press

office, as saying.

 

The spokesman said there was nothing unusual about seeking charitable

contributions to help cover the military's expenses, saying it was

already common practice in other countries.

 

There are frequent reports in the local media of conscripts in

Azerbaijan's armed forces succumbing to illness because they do not

have enough food and are badly equipped.

 

The state of Azerbaijan's military is a sensitive subject. Though

observing a cease-fire, the country is still formally at war with its

neighbour Armenia over the disputed enclave of Nagorno-Artsax.

[sen_Vahan]

Mosjan,

 

Indz tvum e, shat chisht mitk e!Yerkkagakaziutyun@ kberi erkir@ bargavachman, im karzikov, manavand banak@:Zankazogner unenal krknaki kagakaziutyun shat klinen ambogg ashkhariz, bayz mi problem ka - bann ayn e , vor shat erkrnerum, vorteg hayer@ aprum en, nuynpes ka partadir zarayutyan orenk, ev da ahakin problemner kstegzi mardkanz hamar - double citizenship=2 mandatory armies: Bayz ete orenk@ Haystanum lini aynpisin, vor nkati unena ays problem@, im karzikov, mardkanz mez mas@ kuzena Haykakan kagakaziutyun stanal ev chpoxel ayn: Shater@ urax klinen irenz erkrin zarael - ov banakum, ov dramov,ov el mek ayl kerp..

 

mi poqer havelum - yete iharke chem sxalvum - nayev iys nuyn dzevov kam n@manatip paymanerov arajarkel nayev iyn Hayerin ovqer tsankanum en Yerkqaraqatsiutyn@

 

yet tsankanum en nayev HAyastani Qaraqatsy - karor e ir profesyonal luman nerdni HAyastanum - tsarayi banakum - kam vjari ir tsarayutyan hamar, kam nerdni ir jamanak@ karj jamanakov. @est masnagitutyan@ - @entaniqi karrorutyan - tariqi -

 

inch kaseq

?

[nairi]

YOUNG ARMENIANS STUDYING ABROAD TO PAY SURETY FOR MILITARY SERVICE

 

Public Television of Armenia

29 Aug 02

 

YEREVAN -- Presenter The government passed a decision today,

according to which young Armenian men who want to study abroad

and need to postpone their military service have to pay a

15,000-dollar deposit or the equivalent in property. The deposit

will be refunded to the students after their immediate return

to Armenia. Correspondent The new law will be applied to those

students who have not yet performed military service and who are

going to study abroad on their own initiative. It will not be

applied to the students going abroad under agreements between

different governments and institutions on exchange programmes.

 

Levon Mkrtchyan, Armenian minister of education and science It

was sufficiently difficult for us to decide, first, to whom this

law will be applied and, second, how to ensure that Armenian

citizens fulfil their duties.

 

Correspondent According to the new law, a student who wants

to study abroad has to pay 15,000 dollars or the equivalent

in property.

 

Levon Mkrtchyan This measure was created so that study abroad

was not one of the ways of avoiding military service.

 

Correspondent The law will be applied only in the 2002-03 academic

year. A law on military service will be passed in 2003 and will

include this issue too.

[sen_Vahan]

"Correspondent The law will be applied only in the 2002-03 academic

year. A law on military service will be passed in 2003 and will include this issue too."

 

Why only 2002-2003? They want to see how it works? To be honest, I would not pay that amount - it's too much!