important about Armenia or The Changes That We* like To S

[sen_Vahan]

Changes That We* like To See In Republic Of Armenia

 

We = Members of Hye Forum

 

The policy that the ROA has now toward the "Army" is in my opinion "pak kagakakanutyun".Young people leave the country because there is no job and they do not want to join the present-day Army for different reasons. And for this youth the way back to home is closed - as russians would say "doroga domoy zakazana". Then they try to get different citizenship and do not go back to the ROA. This is a real "gagt" which is still going.

That's just one of the things important for armenia that I would like to discuss in this forum.Can one change the situation and how? More later.

Vahan

 

[ August 13, 2002, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: MosJan ]

[MosJan]

VAhan jan husov ches nerrana avelatsman hamar

 

Movses

[MosJan]

lets se if we can do this / if on the end we can have even a 1 page that we can send to RA - us D-Armenians and ask them to consider our opinion.

 

Movses

[sen_Vahan]

No problem..

[MJ]

There you go, Movses:

 

/cgi-bin/forum/ultim...=7;t=000101;p=5

[SAS]

Vahan,

 

du pntrum es ardaracum:

 

Mite parz chi mi hasarak ban, vor tsarayel banakum` da PARTAKANUTYUN e, inchpisin el vor lini ayd banak@:

 

Menq voch urish Hayastan unenq,voch el urish banak:

[MosJan]

SAS jan voch te Ardaratsum enq pntrum iyl dzev -

 

hetevyal patjarneri hamar

im @enkers vor arden 8 tary e inch LA e bnakvum - yekel e iyster inch inch janaparhnerov minj ir banak gnal@ - iysor yerb inq@ arden usyal masnaget e - Atamnabuj & Atami Cosmetikayi lavaguyn varpetnerits - tsankanum e veradarnal tun -

 

Tun = Hayastan

 

ir sireli Eyak@ der Yerevanum e

ir tun u ter@

paputs mnatsats - atamnabujaran@ - irents tan bakum

kortsnelu vochinch chuni - arden bavarar $$$$$ havaqel e - iyster ashxatelov - yev hnaravorutyun uni mi nor ter batselu yerevanum aveli profesyonal / aveli modern / aveli jisht - bujumner katarelu hamar.

 

sakayn uni mek problem - HAyastanits meknel e minch BANAK gnal@ - hima yete het veradarna - na uni mi mets xndir - gnalu e kam bant - vorpes dasaliq - kam el tsarayelu e gnalu - qan vor iysqan tari USA bnakvelov nuynisk ports charets US qaraqatsy darnalu yev kam mshtakan bnakvelu iyster -

 

de hima indz asa te inch karor e im barekam@ anel - het gna Hayastan ur kanshin k@qerten - te mna USA tsaxsi mi 6-8.000 yev darna bnakich USA

[SAS]

MosJan,

 

amen mekn uni ir &shmartutyun@, bayc kan nayev orenqner: Nuyn USA-um, yete zhamankin petakan turqer@ chv&arecir, kam, Astvats mi arasce, taqcrecir, apa kgnas bant:

 

Yete qo barekam@ veradarna Hayastan, apa PARTAVOR e mek tarov tsarayel banakum( yete bardzraguyn krtutyan vkayakan uni), isk heto ir gorts@ sksi:

 

Hrashali kliner, yete amen mi hay inqn iren aser."Yete voch yes, apa ov?"` ankax voreve banic:

 

Misht ka @ntrutyun katarelu hnaravorutyun...

[MJ]

Movses,

 

Kani vor ink@ bavakan "$$$$" arden steghtsel e, karogh e anvjar dzaraiutiunner matutsel Haikakan banakin. Vstah em vor banak@ atamnabuzhi shat medz karik uni.

 

Ham el da kogni iren hetaga hatjakhordner havakel.

[sen_Vahan]

Vahan,

 

du pntrum es ardaracum:

 

Mite parz chi mi hasarak ban, vor tsarayel banakum` da PARTAKANUTYUN e, inchpisin el vor lini ayd banak@:

 

Menq voch urish Hayastan unenq,voch el urish banak: "

 

SAS jan,

 

Es voch mi ardarazum el chem pntrum, havata, manavand hayeri het ardari linel@ sxal ban kliner, da bolorn el parz haskanum en: Lets be more realistic! HAZARAVOR gahelner aysor Rusastanum, Ukrainayum, US-um aprum, asxatum, sovorum en, linelov Hayastani kagakazi (ush te shut poxum en ayn sakayn).Vor hayeri het tarber gavarneriz xosume es, bolorn el asum en , vor gahelutyun chi mnazel, bolor@ durs en: "you either adapt the laws for people or you lose!"(I mean the country)

Iharke, shat lav kliner , te bolors el hpart lineink mer banakov ev gnayink zarayelu, bayz irakanutyun@ urish e, zavok srti: Ari xosenk elnelov irakan drutyuniz, bayz voch barzr mtkeriz:

[sen_Vahan]

"Yete qo barekam@ veradarna Hayastan, apa PARTAVOR e mek tarov tsarayel banakum( yete bardzraguyn krtutyan vkayakan uni), isk heto ir gorts@ sksi:"

 

Yeah, these are the things that one may frequently hear in Armenia's Embassy in Moscow(from people who do not even speak the language clearly). SAS jan, da tvazog ban e: Chei uzi anunner tal konkret mardkanz, bayz shaterin gitem, voronk avarteluz heto henz nuyn Moskvayum chen karoganum gnal tun:Avelin asem, usman @ntazkum el chein karoganum: Kan mi shark bazarutyunner, bayz nrank hamarya bolorn el ayspes asaz "dzel en gortser@" pogov: Despanatner@ mi ban en asum, bayz erkrum razmakan "bespredel" e tirum u voroshaki orenkner chkan: And this is one of the reasons why many people do not want to follow those so-called laws.

[MosJan]

shat bari hamamit em dzez het - sakayn mi qani patasxanner yes mi yerku orits k@grem / yerb ivijaki linem

 

MOvses

[hayemyes]

One change that I would defenitely want to see: change the fascist president and put someone with a head on their shoulders. Armenia is becoming a country governed by dictators.

[SAS]

Vahan,

 

yes chem haskanum inch e nashankum "razmakan bespredel"?

 

Yete mard@ galis e Hayastan, yev nran odanavakayanic tanum en banak, apa da STIPVATS qayl e:Ov petq e tsarayi banakum, yete voch hay@? Turq@?

 

Yerb USA en galis, yev odanavakayanum matnahetqer en vercnum, vorpes HANCAGORTSI, kam "shmon" en anum, sa inch, normal yerevuyt e?

 

De da Amerikan e,- strkamtoren hmakerpvum enq moranalov "bespredeli" masin:

 

Yete uzum eq imanal im kartsiq@, apa orenq petq e @ndunvi banakic azatvelu hamar:

 

1. Yete mard@ aprum e Hayastanum yev chi uzum tsarayel` v&arir $5000:

 

2. Yete aprum e Hayastanic durs, apa $10000:

 

Isk ayd pogh@ ogtagortsvum e banaki hogser@ hogalu hamar: Hima ayn mtnum e petakan pashtonyaneri grpan@, yerb amen mekn ir "gortsn e dzum":

 

Yete HARUSTNER@ chen uzum tsarayel, apa petq e v&aren aghqatnerin irenc poxaren tsarayelu hamar:

[SAS]

Hayemyes,

 

ur er, tsnver mi aynpisi HAY dikataor, vor karoghanar tsarayecnel ir zhoghovrdin ir hayreniqi hamar:

 

Isk "demokratian", aranc hayeris el, yola kgna` chi satki...

[sen_Vahan]

"Vahan,

 

yes chem haskanum inch e nashankum "razmakan bespredel"?"

 

Da nshanakum e "bespredel" razmakan harzum:

 

"Yete mard@ galis e Hayastan, yev nran odanavakayanic tanum en banak, apa da STIPVATS qayl e:Ov petq e tsarayi banakum, yete voch hay@? Turq@?"

 

Dra hamar el ski voch el arandznapes galis a mard:Hima vorn e lav - orenkner" poxel aynpes, vor mardik @ndhakarak@ gan, te STIPVAZ kayleri dimelov, aynpes anel,vor mardik chgan tun u kagakaziutyun@ poxen?

 

"Yerb USA en galis, yev odanavakayanum matnahetqer en vercnum, vorpes HANCAGORTSI, kam "shmon" en anum, sa inch, normal yerevuyt e?"

 

Iharke, vorosh bazarutyunner kan, bayz himnakanum voch mekiz matnahetker chen verznum:Erbek!! Moreover,esteg voch mek pog amen kayli hamar odanavakayanum chi uzum Erevani nman: hayastanum henz nuyn razmakan gorzerov odanavakayanum kangnogner@ pog en pokum: Shat lav orenkner en che?

 

"De da Amerikan e,- strkamtoren hmakerpvum enq moranalov "bespredeli" masin:"

 

Es vor eskan gnum galis em US, indz misht gptum en odanavakayanum u miayn VISA status stugum..

 

"Yete uzum eq imanal im kartsiq@, apa orenq petq e @ndunvi banakic azatvelu hamar:

 

1. Yete mard@ aprum e Hayastanum yev chi uzum tsarayel` v&arir $5000:

 

Hayastanum shat kich mard karog e 5000 $ muzel aysor: Aysinkn, da nshanakum e, vor miayn harustner' erkrum karog en azatvel orinakan banakiz: Da kberi nran, vor mardkanz meg ahavor shat djgohner khaytnven, ev draniz iravigak@ miayn kvatana:

 

"2. Yete aprum e Hayastanic durs, apa $10000:"

 

Isk ete aprum e durs, bayz buh-um e sovorum? Minch aysor konkret orenk chka artasahmanum sovorogneri hamar: Sovorog@ dgvar te karogana 10000$ muzel: Petk e orenk@ aveli flexible lini:

Heto du mi morazir, vor mardik 1500$ kashark talov Rusastanum kagakaziutyun ev granzum karog en stanal: Dgvar te 10000 $ tan , vor banakiz erexun azaten: Nman orenkner@ petk e @ndunel, im karzikov, aynpes, vor mardkanz hamar matcheli paymanner linen - dgvar, bayz matcheli:

 

"Isk ayd pogh@ ogtagortsvum e banaki hogser@ hogalu hamar: Hima ayn mtnum e petakan pashtonyaneri grpan@, yerb amen mekn ir "gortsn e dzum":"

 

Exactly, henz nuyn banaki gortserov zbagvog pashtonyaneri grpan@! Miguze nrank el henz chen uzum, vor vorevize ban poxvi erkrum ayd harzum?

 

"Yete HARUSTNER@ chen uzum tsarayel, apa petq e v&aren aghqatnerin irenc poxaren tsarayelu hamar:"

 

Harustner@ chgitem, te inch en uzum, bayz karog em asel, vor ev hayastani ev artasahmani hayeri mez mas@ aynkan el harust chen ev chen el uzum aranznapes zarayel:

"Vardaguyn aknoznerov" amen bani nayel@ lav chi, SAS jan:

[hayemyes]

I dont believe in that theory that we sp often hear: there are no bad armenians. People wake up! Bad ppl can be of any nationality. I am not saying by my previous post that I hate my country. I don't, and believe me my whole family and I always try to help the armenian community centers. But what I hate is ppl who don't know anything about politics, who are putting censorships on newspapers, on the internet on everything. It's people who don't want to listen to what the people like, people who claim like that french leader (dont remember his name i think it was Gaulle) who said that I am the state. That's what our president said last week. Can u believe it, the Armenian government doesn't have any power, and as it was written in an article, Armenia's vice-president can't even punish a police officer. He doesn't even have that right. It's the president who takes all the decisions. Who are they trying to fool with their "democracy"? The Assembly can't take decisions, and if it does, the decisions are always modified according to our "President"'s liking. I think its a scam and it degrades our population when other people see that Armenia, the first Christian nation, is becoming worst than islam countries. I don't think that the person who is governing the nation is a president, Ii think it's a worthless dictator who does nothing but put restrictions on ppl's ideas and is destroying the country. Remember btw when his bodyguard killed an innocent man who was trying to express his opinion of our so loved president in a humorous way? Thats not a president we have. its a scam

[MosJan]

yes yeka - portsem hamarot - iyn inch vor duq grel eyiq yes haytnetsi im @enkeroj@ - na nayes yev asats vor inq@ tsarayelu het poroblem chuni - yev patrast e tsarayelu sakayn iren asel en vo rnayev qryakan hodvats ka ir vra - qani vro dasaliq e -

chem haskanum inchpes krar e hodvats linel kem te dasaliq yerb Hayastanits durs e yekel mionchev nuynisk Zinvorakan grquyk kam grantsum unenal@.

 

bari @endunenq vor dasaliq e - inchu petq e nayev BANT nsty ? -

 

chnayats asum en vro HAykakan VAryantov - shat arag et bolor@ hanum en yev torrnum menak - tsarayutyun@ - iyn el ir hamar - klini linel atamnabuj yev vorpes atamnabuj - 3-6 amis e tsarayelu.

 

----

 

inch verabervum e - tsarayel kam chtsarayelun - tor da arden HAyastani Qaraqatsin voroshi - te petq e ardyor Partadir tsarayutyun te voch.

menq USA taquk tan2 nstats inch gitenq te zinvori kyanq@ kam tsarayutyun@ inchpes e - el ur mnats - vorashenq te ov e tsarayelu...

 

----

 

hognetsy qich hangstanam k@sharunakem

Movses

[MJ]

I think it might be proper if the President of Armenia declared Amnesty for those who have not served in the Army by leaving the country and allow the return of those who otherwise are reluctant to do so.

 

The occasion may be, for example, the 1701 jubilee of the acceptance of Christianity as a State Religion.

[sen_Vahan]

There is a lot of young people (especially in Russia) who left the country at the age of, for example, 9,10,etc years old. Although they remained Arm citizens they entered russian universities later when they should have joined the army.And since there is no concrete law for those studying abroad, they do not want to go back and are afraid to do so. Is this a real problem? I think so because the number of such people is very large.

The problem is that being in another environment from early ages (in Russia or US) young people get much opportunities for their own professional development which they will not be able to find in Armenia.And it would be hard to give up for a couple of years, go to ROA to the army and then go back to their jobs.Anyway they know that they will leave the country because there is nothing to do for them - no job, no future.

Moreover, people would not join the present day army because of terrible conditions there. All the people I know who served in Arm army were extremely negative about that, except one who served somewhere in Artsax.

In the view of all this, young men prefer to change the citizenship,etc.,etc.,etc...

I think the idea (which now exists in Armenia) to give the possibility to pay legally not to join the army is good.(but not 10000USD or so)That will be good for those who do not want to serve in the army as well as for the army's budget. And there should be certain laws for the students inside and outside Armenia.Let me tell you one thing : there is still a number of russian universities that people from former soviets can enter and have stipends as during USSR period.Moreover, almost all of them have razmakan kafedraner (voennaya kafedra) where males get military knowledge and a rank in the end of their studies - and all that is free!! But what is bad is that non-russian citizens are not allowed now to take those courses.I think Armenia can make some special agreements with Russia for the armenian students so that they are allowed to these courses and getting the military ranks.

And the laws for students should also contain a pragraph for those studying at private schools which do not have military departments.

 

That's it for now, sory for the long post.

Vahan

[Rubo]

Hayemyes I echo your sentiments. Power corrupts and that is why in US constitution we got check and balance system in place to insure against power addiction. Armenia does not have an experience with democracy and therefore its institutions are still carry the residue psychology that you must bribe to get anything done. As long as we got people in office putting their doorknobs above that of our nation’s needs, we will continue to sink deeper into typical third world artificial “democracy”

 

There was a lot of talk here about unity. Unity is the outlook, which says your little frog pond, and my little frog pond is connected to the river where the water is coming from and while we are fighting to see who can croak the loudest the water level is slowly dropping to dangerous levels.

[SAS]

Mi apush harc` Hayoc Banak petq e( ayo/ voch )?

 

Yete ayo, apa ov petq e tsarayi ayd banakum?

 

Poghosn asum e Petros@, Petros@ matnacuyc e anum Martirosin, isk Martirosn el` Poghosin...

 

Bolorn irenc verin arti coren en hamarum:

 

Isk menq aystegh "chana enq tsetsum" turqin mi ban haskacnelu:

 

Yete voch, apa inch enq qnnarkum?

 

_________________________________________________

 

I gitutyun`

 

Mer aynqan "sireli" Turqiayum ka orenq ayn masin, vor

 

1.Turqiayi qaghaqacin, yete chi uzum banakum tsarayel v&arum e motavorapes $3800.

 

2.Yete Turqiayic durs e aprum, apa` $8500-$8700.

 

[ August 16, 2002, 03:09 AM: Message edited by: SAS ]

[sen_Vahan]

SAS jan,

 

menk chenk knnarkum, te ov piti gna kam chgna banak. Banak@ anpayman petk e, bayz da chi nshanakum, vor petk e achkners pakenk u chnkatenk , te inch e katarvum: Menk mtazum enk, vonz kareli e aynpes anel, vor hayastani kagakaziner@ ahel u gahel karoganan tun gnal hangist ev voch te poxen irenz kagakaziutyun@ - ays problem@ hima real ka ev petk e mtazel, te vonz paykarel dra dem:

 

Ete Turkian, vor@ shat aveli zargazaz ev harust erkir e, 3800 $ e pahangum tegi bnakichneriz banakiz azatvelu hamar, apa vonz agkat hayastan@ karog e avelin pahangel? Es hamadzayn em, vor e petk e nman mi ban horinel, bayz voch 5000 u 10000 $. Noriz, matcheli piti linen paymanner@:

 

ete nman mi orenk @ndunvi ham tegi gahelneri ham el artasahmanum gtnvogneri hamar, es chem karzum, te banaki tiv@ kkrchatvi kam na ktulana: @ndhakarak@, banak@ kharstana voch te pashtonyaner@:

 

Finally, people leave the country first due to the terrible economy. And if the family leaves Armenia then young people are those who work abroad to help the family. So, how can they give up and go to the army? I think, in the present situation Armenia cannot afford today's laws reagarding the army: there should be some reforms, changes.

 

Regards,

vahan

[sen_Vahan]

I have several thoughts.

it goes without saying that the rules should be flexible since there are different types of young men - undergraduate/graduate students at public schools and private schools inside and outside Armenia,non-students. If one does not want to join the army for some reasons then he should pay the sum of , for example, 1500$ if in Armenia and 2-3 times more if outside. However, the rule should not be the same for students and non-students. This will encourage people to try to enter universities and will increase the overall background.

If being a student one does want to serve in the army he does so after the university but not for 2 years - for a year or so depending on the speciality/profession. Otherwise he pays the required sum.

If Armenia gets an agreement with Russia so that Arm students can take military courses in public schools then by the end of the studies one will have a military rank which will make his service easier and more useful for the country. This is very important for Armenia to do because at russian universities people can get a real and valuable practical and theoretical military knowledge even if their major is a non-military speciality.

[sen_Vahan]

"Mi apush harc` Hayoc Banak petq e( ayo/ voch )?

 

Yete ayo, apa ov petq e tsarayi ayd banakum?"

 

SAS,

 

banak@ anpayman petk e: Im kartsikov,der USSR-iz mnazaz orenk@, vor zarayum e na, um fizikakan@ tuyl e talis,ov chi @ndunvum BUH minch 18 tarekan(kam 19,20). Bayz inchu erkriz durs sovorog@ petk e problem unena banaki ev chkarogana tun gnal? Inchu arden sovoraz@ BUH-um razmakan lochumov piti nuynpes zarayi 2 tari? Inchkan kareli e banak@ pahel aynpisi paymannerum, vor voch mi mayr chuzena ir tgayin ugarkel zarayutyan?(Sovetum el bolor@ txrum ein,erb tgan banak er gnum, bayz vax chkar,vor khivandana,vor normal chen kerakri!) Inchkan kareli e anhamar kashark verznel mardkanziz banaki harzov?

Ev mi ayl nrbutyun - vonz e stazvum, vor hayastanum u Kharabagum generalner@ ev ayl barzr razmakan pashtonyaner@ hoyakap tner en sargum (californiayum shater' knaxandzein) u amenanor mekenaner kshum, ete pogi agbyur chunen?

Banak@ darzel e shateri hamar harstanalu migoz: