"The O'Reilly Factor" & his ignorant statement

[THOTH]

Yes - there are always short sighted, jingoistic, dumb assess like this everywhere.

 

I think the lesson for Armenians from this should be - don't think or act similarly. Racism cuts both ways. Sure, you can look down your noses at some other group - they are too dark, too drty, squabble so or whatever - but there are people who view you just the same - etc - not white enough - just another wog etc.

 

So we should all have a little more appreciation of others - don't concentrate on being negative about (percieved) differences - but understand that although people may have different ways (and some of these may on the surface seem unusual or even offensive to us) - accept this - they are people as we are - and we may have habits and such that annoy them (etc) and others as well - doesn't mean anyone is necessarily better then anyone else.

 

Comments such as this O'reilly's are almost always based on ignorance and are much more of a reflection on the issuer of such then the subject.

[LithiumC4]

Every so often in the media whether in movies or news, he hear some insulting statements about Armenians and it's just going to contiune until someone acts on it. Why not get the Armenian Assembly of America or some high profile group to make a big issue out of this? It's a free country yes, but the man is calumniating opinions which have no basis. I would like to hear his counter argument.

 

Oh by the way, exclude his arrogant view points, you have a fully developed and highly inteligent politician. I hope more Armenians incline towards right-wingism. What wrong wth Conservatism? Most Armenians from Armenia have a onservatism mentality anyways. If we all scatter like we're doing, we won't be a driving force.

[MJ]

Thoth,

 

I agree fully with your comments about prejudices.

 

My wife and me frequently watch O’Reilly’s "No-spin zone." We have also seen other commentaries of his on a variety of issues in other programs and town-hall meetings. We are not conservatives by any stretch, neither we find O’Reilly to be one. Frequently he may be very silly. However, as a rule, he is very sober political correspondent (and not a talk show host), he goes directly to the bottom of the things and doesn't give his guest any slack. It's worth mentioning also, I think, that his "No-Spin Zone" is the highest rated "political hour" on the Network TV.

 

I have seen the interview where he made the referenced above non-cordial comment about Armenians. It angered me too, to the point that I wanted to write him. But then I looked at it a little bit from his perspective. The subject of the interview was the US policy on immigration - whether the US has to conduct open borders policy or not, and whether it was justified to grant legal status to all Mexican illegal immigrants, as the Bush administration is proposing. I couldn't quite understand what was he pointing at when referring to the Armenians. There was some element of grotesque in his expression.

 

And I thought what has to be done? Spam him with emails and letters of protest? I don't think that would be an efficient way of addressing the issue. I felt that the best scenario would've been if some strong Armenian Student Organization at some University would've invited him for an Open House meeting, and would've educated him in the Armenian issues, meanwhile trying to understand what is the basis of reservations he has against Armenians.

 

Given that he is the host of the most popular prime-time political hour on TV, under the scenario of success he could provide our side with an opportunity to lay out our case and present it to the public. Obviously, in the tradition of the Fox network, it would've mean that the Turkish side also would be represented. But that is good, I think.

 

Know any Armenian Student Organizations with outspoken leaders?

[LithiumC4]

MJ,

 

That is a great idea and I happen to know of a person who is about 22 and has recently been asked to create a western headquarters for the Armenian Assembly of America. I don't know if he is affiliated with Armenian Student Association but I will definately talk to him about your idea. I don't want to make an enemy but O'Reilly needs to be criticized just a tad for that statement.

[LithiumC4]

AUGUST 10 2001 O'REILLY

 

Mr. O'Reilly brought in a frm. ambassador from Norway as a guest today and was analyzing the reasons why Norway is statistically considered the number #1 country to live in.

 

I can not quote his exact words but he said something of this sort: "So yeah Norway is a good country, you wouldn't want Turkish or Armenian people there."

 

How dare he defame our culture which is considered one of the most intellectual and sohphisticated cultures out there.

[Azat]

I have seen his show couple of times and I think he is an idiot.

 

Way too conservative for my.

 

It is sad what he said. It shows what he thinks of our culture and people. He probably does not know much about Armenians or Turks period.

 

Norway probably does not want stupid Americans like O'Reilly in Norway.

 

[ August 11, 2001: Message edited by: Azat ]

[THOTH]

MJ -

 

I would imagine that you do understand the point I was making regarding prejudice. What saddens me is how many Armenians I know fall into the trap I was describing. Armenians (or many of them at least) are such a judgemental people by nature (and some seem to think we share nothing in common with the Turk...) anyway,

 

I've never even heard of O'Reilly before. I have no idea who he is. His comment however strikes me of very typical of an affluent WASP American - someone who sees/percieves themselves/their way of life as under asssault from all the immagrants (and they are all now dark/non-European ones with different ways - etc and breed like rabbits, live 6 families to an apartment, eat funny food etc etc). Of course they easily forget that their parents or grandparents etc were immagrants of perhaps similar circumstance - who worked hard - sent their kids to school - assimilated...the difference is that these new ones are not (Northern European) white (in the traditional sense..) These attitudes (and ignorances - like this O'Reilly's) often have nothing to do with political affiliation or even general level of inteligence or overall knowledge/worldlyness etc - I supose to some degree it should be expected - almost a maxim of human nature - "their different from us" etc and of course perhaps there is (at most just only a little) something to this concern of (US society) becoming less European/White or some such - though mostly I beleive this is nonsense (in terms of changing our fundemental values and such...Hollywood & Madison Avenue and other influences are doing that well enough on their own...LOL).

 

I find it funny (but not at all suprising or unexpected) how many commentators here and others I know from other countries have such low opinions of the US in general (as if we really are just like Hollywood movies and such and like we all necissarily buy into all of our Governments policies/actions etc) - the "there is no culture there" or such being the most prevelent type of comment. OK - I understand what they are saying and personally do not buy into much of our advertising driven pop culture and such - but I find it interesting how many folks are clamoring so to get here (even from Western European countries) - and those (fairly recently arrived) that I meet here I often ask them what they think - do they like it here and such and why/why not etc- and almost universally they say that they do - that there is oppurtunity (not tied into cronyism or some rigid caste/trade/school system etc) - there are nice amenities for raising a family (isn't that what its all about ultimately?), and so on and so forth...my point being - that sure - its not perfect (and there are other very nice places as well I understand) but people come here and they adapt and assimilate (or their children do)...so all of this worrying is a bit overblown - IMO. And personally I very much like the various ethnic elements and influences (and anyone of with any cultural appreciation should to - America of the 1950s/60s/70s etc was really pretty bland in many ways...at least now I can get Kebabs, curry from 3+ different lands and a Burrito with something other than ground beef in it...LOL!) - all of these elements and all of the influx of folks who look to improve themselves and suceed etc - is a good thing for our country - IMO (I mean look at Japan and such - pure breeds get all squirrly you know...and the conformity issue is only part of this...). And if the Europeans weren't perhaps so snooty etc - and if they didn't set up so many barriers for these newcommers - perhaps they too could enjoy the same situation as here in the US - without such cultural stress/clashes and such - just perhaps with a little grumbling and ignorant statements from people who ought to know better - but don't. (does that all make sense?)

[MJ]

LithiumC4,

 

It doesn't necessarily have to be a Student Association. An Armenian Assembly sponsored meeting may also be fine, in my view. The important thing is to have qualified and well-tempered spokesmen, who understand the American way of thinking.

 

It would be great if, first, one could investigate and identify the source of O'Railly's reservation towards Armenians - is it in the context of Armenian Organized Crime, the reliance of some segments of Armenian Immigrants on Social Programs, is it the transfer of the Armeno-Turkish hostility into the American political life, what is it?

 

P.S. Why LithiumC4? Anything shorter for convenience?

[gamavor]

Europe is much more classy place to live in, much more liberal, and much, much more cultured than USA. The reason why people still are coming to USA is money. Fortunately, here there are some remnants of real capitalism while Europe is too socialistic. Living in USA is not that bad if one can get used to the American plebes(WASP).

[MJ]

Thoth,

 

As a side comment, O'Railly is Irish, and we know the prejudices that have traditionally existed in the US and still exist towards Irish. But I also think that worse prejudices against us exist in Europe, as well as in Russia, while Russians are considered by many to be our Guardian Angels, for example.

 

On the other hand, we are the least in the position of complaining about prejudices, because our own minds are full of them. Even in this forum.

 

For many years I live in areas where I have absolutely no contact with Armenians, or since last year, my only point of contact with the Armenians is through this forum. My children have grown up in almost full isolation from the Armenians, as well, at least in the last 4 years. Prior to that, while in Michigan, they used to attend Armenian Saturday School and had some limited exposure to the Armenian community in Dearborn - twice a year reciting Armenian poetry on Christmas and at the end of the "academic" year. The areas we live in in the last 4 years are not familiar with the "immigrant" culture, at all, and are pretty "Americocentric." We have experienced no prejudices that I can think of throughout these years. Our children are some of the most popular ones in their schools and in the neighborhood. People accept them as if they are their own, yet tell us "Your children are different." But they interpret the difference in some very positive ways, and they love it. My wife has the same experiences. Sure there are always the "Mayflower Americans," to whom no one other than the "Mayflower Americans" are acceptable. But isn't Europe even worse in this sense? Isn't it an implant from the European culture? As a matter of fact, of all cultures in the world, the American culture is the most open to foreigners and immigrants (by default). Of all countries, this is the one least discriminatory against the newcomers on a relative scale, at least. Yet, you hear everybody complain about America. Then, it raises a lot of questions - "What is it exactly that you don't like about America?"

 

[ August 12, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

[gamavor]

If an impartial reader follows closely the postings in the Forum, he will soon found out that O’Reilly is right.

As it was revealed Armenians are a nation who have no heroes, whose culture is corrupt (actually there is no such a thing as Armenian culture since almost everything is receipt from Arabs, Turks, and Russians). Our religion is fake, our Kings were Jews, or Parthian, our noble families were Assyrian, our heroes (they were not heroes but just ambitious (in the Armenian sense) political adventurer) were Chinese, those of us who dare to say that they are proud of being Armenians are crooks, blood-suckers… in one word monsters. We are so close to the Turks that one would think that practically there is no difference or if there is it is so embarrassing and politically inconvenient that we better should make efforts to forget about some minor historical accidents.

On top of that, our church leaders were not Armenian and the mere existence of the Republic of Armenia is pure legal discrepancy since Armenians are doing poorly in the economic field.

 

O’Reilly might be Irish but he is right.

[MJ]

Well, I guess, if things have to be either this extreme or the other one, than you successfully have descried the two extremes of the Armenian psyche. On a factual level, I don't know how can one contest some of the things that you have said, above, however.

 

But at the end of the day, the imperative of our times is to dismiss the two extremes and occupy the center.

 

[ August 12, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

[gamavor]

I would suggest occupying the bitter reality instead of creating fake centers.

[MJ]

The bitter reality is resulted from supersticial nationalism and made-up interpretations of oor history.

The current reality precisely points at the center. That center may be as fake as our reality may be.

[gamavor]

Time and again someone lied poor Armenians, that their biggest problem is nationalism. I think the biggest problem of the Armenians is the lack of nationalism (not chauvinism).

In times like these there were always volunteers who will "fight" with these "nationalistic wind mills" in order to accommodate the views of the general public to their "noble" political agenda.

[MJ]

Armenians, as much as I know, receive their first doze of nationalism with their mother’s milk. And it goes on and on, throughout learning how to ride a three-wheel bike, while learning to read, and so on.

 

The views of the general public are rather consistent with the “nationalistic windmills” referenced above. Just look at this forum, if only it may be considered the microcosm of the nation.

 

Armenians are not nationalists by their essence. If this is what you were referring to, than you had a point. However, the conventional Armenian ideology is a manifestation of superstitious nationalism. Its focal point is directed at the external forces rather than the internal consciousness.

 

However, you are right that every now and then some volunteers would try to fight against the “nationalistic windmills” perceiving them to be superstitious manifestations of nonproductive and declarative patriotism, which erode the real foundations of consequential patriotism.

As far as the “noble” political agendas are concerned, anybody who knows a little bit about the Armenian politics knows that the avocation of those “noble” political agendas leads with great certainty towards the self-crucifixion of the advocates, and the adaptation of the declarative and traditional nationalistic slogans is a much more assured way of accommodating the public views.

 

[ August 12, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

[gamavor]

No one is perfect!

[MJ]

Thank God. We'd rather not be perfect, since the "perfect" is ripe for being sacrificed.

[LithiumC4]

As it was revealed Armenians are a nation who have no heroes, whose culture is corrupt (actually there is no such a thing as Armenian culture since almost everything is receipt from Arabs, Turks, and Russians).

 

What the hell....

 

I hope less people have such a mentality, or our culture will vanish shortly.

 

Why what BJ? If I knew the specific reason why Bill O'Reilly said what he said, I would have mentioned it. Who knows, maybe the man has a point. I've contacted some people who are going to look into it and will notify me.

 

This is just a bad case of a person who hasn't made much contact with our great culture.

 

MJ do you have somehting against me? I don't see why you should. This is exactly what I'm referring to. WE NEED UNITY!

[Harut]

hi there. i didn't have chance to say that before.

let me make a point. you already mantioned this few times that the man isn't familiar with our culture. but what does rich culture have to do with being pleased to live with Armenian in the same country?

Incas have great culture. would you like to have Incas living all over Armenia???
i wouldn't.

[MJ]

?

[shiner]

I think what O'reilly said to the Norweigian was in an accusing tone. It is true that Norway is a very homogeneous country, and immigrants would not feel comfortable there at all, as they would in the US. I think O'reilly was accusing him for this, on one hand.

[LithiumC4]

Harut,

 

Hi, nice to meet you. USA is part of Ireland? Your comparison is abnormal. How can you compare American culture (made from hundreds of other cultures) to Armenia? Armenia is barely the size of California and isn't ethnically diverse.

 

I see your point from O'Reilly perspective but you have to "multiply that by infinity" to get the same reaction from an Armenia who discovers his country is populated with non-Armenians.

[Harut]

i see you didn't get anything from what i said. let me try again.

 

yes, Armenians have rich culture. maybe O'Reilly knows it himself very well.

but that doesn't mean that Armenians have priority to live in Norway.

or it doesn't mean that Armenians deserve to live in Norway.

or it doesn't mean O'Reilly likes to live with Armenians in the same country.

 

got it???

 

and when did i say USA is part of Ireland???

[LithiumC4]

Bro? What kind of argument is that? Who cares about that Irish pricks theory? He shouldn't say it, freedom of speech is overated.