Jobs and majors

[LK82]

What is your profesion or what are you studying to become.

 

I'm thinking either law or my newly found interest in engineering. The only problem I have with engineering is that the pay is not very good. Even engineers who work for Boeing only make about 70k to 80k a year after working there for several years.

Edited May 20, 2008 by LK82

[shiner]

The best majors moneywise are the ones that can be directly applied to industry (engineering, accounting, computer science, etc).

 

If you go to law school undergraduate major does not really matter. But law school is an expense not only because you pay 3 years worth of tuition, but also because you are giving up money by not working during that time. And don't think that all lawyers are high profile attorney's either once they graduate.

 

In the end do what you are more comfortable with, the money will come later, but of course nothing is guaranteed.

 

Another option is to do engineering as an undergrad, then see how you feel, and then go to law school. This way you might even become a patent attorney (a high profile field).

[Aaron]

I agree with Shiner that you should be in something that makes you feel comfortable ... however cliché this may sound.

 

If you're going to do it for the cash, then you might as well open a small business right now (ice cream counter, café, retail store, etc), you'll make a good living, as good as - if not better than - a Boeing engineer (you'll work more hours though). This way, no need to invest time and money in long years of education and university!! My environment is full of people with very average education (sometimes none) that make a good living with their small businesses, drive nice cars, have a decent house, and go on vacation once or twice a year with their families.

 

If, on the other hand, you want to be challenged intellectually and do a job that you like, you must have balls (if you're a girl ... you get the point, no discrimination) to take the risk of doing something interesting, and have the confidence that you'll find a way to make a living, even if that means changing fields later on!

 

The good thing about engineering is that you can do pretty much anything with it later on: work in engineering companies, work in consulting, banking, IP, etc, go to grad school and pursue research to become an academic, start your business in your field or in something else since you'll have an analytical mind, do almost any other degree, do an MBA, become a surfer, etc. Anything goes !!! Most engineers end up living well, and some become rich. In other words and bluntly speaking, it's a fairly sure bet!

 

Yes, I'm an engineer and I work in research (grad student). It's very interesting, you're at the cutting edge of science and tech, your mind never stagnates and you're always working with brilliant individuals. You definitely get a strong sense of accomplishment. As for the money, I have to be honest, it's not the best ... unless you start you're own business or become a prof/researcher in an Ivy League school, a fairly challenging task ... which should not intimidate you if you feel you have it inside.

 

I'm about to change fields though ... want to try banking/strategy consulting for a few years, and we'll see later on! But, as you can see, my educational background was compatible with banking (in terms of fundamentals, I've never worked or studied finance or business), at least enough so that I could land a job!

 

Good luck in you decision making, hope this helped!

A.

[Sip]

"Engineering" is such a broad term. You can be a "sanitation quality assurance engineer" which could really mean you clean bathrooms as a janitor

 

Among all engineering, I think the computer side of things are still as hot as ever. There have been declining enrollments in electrical and computer engineering in the last few years which means the techy shortages now are not going to go away very soon. Also, $80K a year is a very ambiguous number ... in the CA Gay Area for example, $80k isn't much where as somewhere like in Arkansas, $80K will go a loooooooong way! If you're a good programmer, you could start at even around $100K (or get there rather quickly in a couple of yeas). But again, when one says 100K, it's usually a good idea to explain "where" -- I am talking more in the Silicon Valley area

Edited May 20, 2008 by Sip

[shiner]

When I was younger my dream was to have a little restaurant, but the problem is you put in a lot of hours, in many cases you fail, and even if you do succeed you're barely making a few thousand a month for which you work around the clock. The percentage of small businesses that really take off is very small. The large chains will kill you. The era of the mom-'n-pop store is not what it used to be. And if you fail chances are you lost all of your savings, and without any skill to fall back on life can be very hard.

[Sip]

First off, Shiner ma man it's awesome to see you around again! Hope you've been doing great.

 

Second ... I'm not sure I agree with you on restaurants. Pretty much any other business where you have to compete with the giant retailers and the internet, I think you are right on the money. But restaurants are the exception I think. If you can come up with something unique and GOOD, I think a restaurant will do great. It's hard for me to say what makes a successful restaurant good as obviously I tend to be attracted to the buffets and that can't be a good way to make any moeny But the usual ... location, ambiance, price, and of course the food itself are very important. I think people often look for any excuse to get away from the big chains if there are reasonable alternatives (food wise). Nothing usually happens over night though ... one would have to have enough initial capital to get things going and also have enough to advertise advertise advertise and hope afterwards word-of-mouth and repeat business get things going.

 

Of course I didn't mean to imply one could become rich with a restaurant. That will probably be the exception than the rule. So you won't see me opening up any restaurants either.

Edited May 20, 2008 by Sip

[shiner]

First off, Shiner ma man it's awesome to see you around again! Hope you've been doing great.

 

Second ... I'm not sure I agree with you on restaurants. Pretty much any other business where you have to compete with the giant retailers and the internet, I think you are right on the money. But restaurants are the exception I think. If you can come up with something unique and GOOD, I think a restaurant will do great. It's hard for me to say what makes a successful restaurant good as obviously I tend to be attracted to the buffets and that can't be a good way to make any moeny But the usual ... location, ambiance, price, and of course the food itself are very important. I think people often look for any excuse to get away from the big chains if there are reasonable alternatives (food wise). Nothing usually happens over night though ... one would have to have enough initial capital to get things going and also have enough to advertise advertise advertise and hope afterwards word-of-mouth and repeat business get things going.

 

Of course I didn't mean to imply one could become rich with a restaurant. That will probably be the exception than the rule. So you won't see me opening up any restaurants either.

 

Hey Sip,

Hope you're doing great also!

 

You're right in the sense that with restaurants you do have more control over your product (ex. a unique recipe) as opposed to retail, etc. But even then there are many other factors as you mentioned. And I also think that in order to make something like that work it would be good to have some industry experience as opposed to diving right in head first.

[Aaron]

I have a good friend in the restaurant business, he worked in a restaurant doing all type of jobs for years before opening his own. This type of experience is a must if you want to succeed in this difficult business. Moreover, keep in mind that you have to be constantly present there (no trusting managers or delegating), staff turnover is one of the highest in any industry (few people make a career out of it), and location is key!

 

But if you make it (reputation), you can easily make in the mid to high 6 digits, much better than engineering or research jobs in terms of money.

 

Good luck,

A.

[Harut]

The best majors moneywise are the ones that can be directly applied to industry (engineering, accounting, computer science, etc).

 

If you go to law school undergraduate major does not really matter. But law school is an expense not only because you pay 3 years worth of tuition, but also because you are giving up money by not working during that time. And don't think that all lawyers are high profile attorney's either once they graduate.

 

In the end do what you are more comfortable with, the money will come later, but of course nothing is guaranteed.

 

Another option is to do engineering as an undergrad, then see how you feel, and then go to law school. This way you might even become a patent attorney (a high profile field).

 

i think we had this discussion before, but that is irrelavant... yes, in 5 years, you may have (big question) saved some money and gained experience and be well positioned against a newly graduated guy... but 30 years down the road, that saved money or the 3 additional years of experience is not going to help in any way... while the degree and the knowledge and education you obtained 30 years ago will give you and advantage...

[vava]

There are successful restaurants, and there are those who scrape by month after month. I personally know a "restaurateur" who owns several small bistros and is making a mint. I also have a client who's small retail business is providing for his two Porsche's, his ski cottage, and his very elegant home in a affluent neighborhood in the city. There are countless others running similar businesses that aren't nearly quite as successful. Being an entrepreneur is an extremely challenging proposition and I admire those who can do it successfully (and I also admire those that have the guts to do it at all!)

 

Eventually I'd consider running my own business, but for now, I think I'm still hung up on improving/acquiring the skills I perceive I don't possess. I suppose you have to build the muscles before you lift the weight. For those like me, who "work for the man", a profession (like engineering, medicine or law) can lead to a very comfortable life. Regardless of profession, you still have to possess the desire and discipline to succeed. There are unsuccessful engineers in existence and certainly there are unsuccessful lawyers too.

 

The person who succeeds as an entrepreneur, would likely succeed at anything. Typically, they are ambitious, motivated, resourceful, and above all they are leaders. They know how to get things done. If you apply that kind of profile to any profession, I'm certain you'll find success.

 

 

[LK82]

I’m not interested in the entrepreneurial thing anymore, not without an education.

Either engineering (No Sip, not a janitorial engineer) or Law can provide an opportunity to still be an entrepreneur, except on a different level.

 

[Garo]

Whatever you choose to do make sure it can't be done from overseas.

[MosJan]

Whatever you choose to do make sure it can't be done from overseas.

 

GAro jan et tesak gorts ka ??? m@natsela ??

[MosJan]

I'm not interested in the entrepreneurial thing anymore, not without an education.

Either engineering (No Sip, not a janitorial engineer) or Law can provide an opportunity to still be an entrepreneur, except on a different level.

 

LK jan et law'it's heruu mna axper jan, gorts chunes

[Sip]

GAro jan et tesak gorts ka ??? m@natsela ??

 

Inchu che .. kochvuma "Sanitation Quality Assurance Engineer" (aka janitor)

[LK82]

LK jan et law'it's heruu mna axper jan, gorts chunes

 

 

 

Inchu mnam MosJan?

Edited May 21, 2008 by LK82

[Em]

Levon, du irenc mi lsi. I think Law school is a great idea. But don't do Poli Sci as a Bachelor; choose some other field you like such as Bio or Psych or even English. I wish I could go to law school and become a trial attorney. But it is just not feasible for my situatiion. And no matter what you do stay AWAY from personal injury law. It's mundane, non-challenging and not worth the time and effort you put into it.

 

By the way do not ask practicing attorneys if you should follow that route. They will laugh at you and tell you to do something more productive with your time. And of all professionals, attorneys are most likely to undergo depression. But dentists kill themselves, so I guess depression is not so bad.

 

 

 

[Twilight Bark]

Engineering and law, while requiring similar intellectual level, thrive on almost opposite character traits. If you are to become more than a patent attorney or some grunt worker taking care of details, I think you would often need to use your logical reasoning in ways that favor illogical outcomes. You would need to be in tune with the illogic of the individuals making up the jury, or the absurdities of the law. An engineer, by temperament, finds comfort in the rational workings of things.

 

If you find you are technically oriented, I advise strongly against becoming a patent attorney. It is not an intellectually rewarding path. To each his/her own of course.

 

If you are simultaneously interested in law and engineering, you are probably blessed/cursed with ADHD (a very Armenian condition). If that's the case, read books on how you can actually leverage it to your advantage while building a support system that takes care of the "details" for you. Basically a "secretary" of some sort; normally a family member (mother?) that is willing to embrace that role without undue nagging and guilt-tripping. Oh, and you do need to decide what to do, when you can get around to it

 

In general, greater rewards come with greater risks. If you value security over the pursuit of something extraordinary, you need to take some chances, and accept that you may have to live with the negative consequences of failure.

 

One last thing: you often learn more from talking to failed people than "successful" ones. The former are a sure source of information about mistakes to avoid. The "winners" often don't really know why the heck they became successful, don't know that they don't know, are typically unaware that their success was in good part due to luck and circumstance, and can give you tragically misinformed guidance.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

[vava]

One last thing: you often learn more from talking to failed people than "successful" ones. The former are a sure source of information about mistakes to avoid. The "winners" often don't really know why the heck they became successful, don't know that they don't know, are typically unaware that their success was in good part due to luck and circumstance, and can give you tragically misinformed guidance.

 

My father used to recount an old proverb along these lines, "The wise man learns from his mistakes, while the fool never does. But the truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others."

[hetanos]

What is your profesion or what are you studying to become.

 

I'm thinking either law or my newly found interest in engineering. The only problem I have with engineering is that the pay is not very good. Even engineers who work for Boeing only make about 70k to 80k a year after working there for several years.

 

Try finance. You can manage other people money and live pretty well. You can be private financial adviser or work for the fund.

[ED]

mechanical engineering, there is a very high demand in US and all over the world for professionals in this field, if you like building things, design them, want to learn CAD, such as PRO-E, SOLID WORKS, VISI-CAD, UNIGRAPHICS etc

 

 

[Sip]

If you find you are technically oriented, I advise strongly against becoming a patent attorney. It is not an intellectually rewarding path. To each his/her own of course.

 

It's strange you say that because up until now I always admired patent lawyers' insane creativity and ability to transform a clean, clear, and well organized conceptual invention into something that is ENTIRELY incomprehensible to anyone.

 

[ExtraHye]

mechanical engineering, there is a very high demand in US and all over the world for professionals in this field, if you like building things, design them, want to learn CAD, such as PRO-E, SOLID WORKS, VISI-CAD, UNIGRAPHICS etc

 

This is very true, I have about 5 job openings with the above qualifications.

 

So let me know if anyone is looking for a job that have those qualifications.

 

[LK82]

Engineering and law, while requiring similar intellectual level, thrive on almost opposite character traits. If you are to become more than a patent attorney or some grunt worker taking care of details, I think you would often need to use your logical reasoning in ways that favor illogical outcomes. You would need to be in tune with the illogic of the individuals making up the jury, or the absurdities of the law. An engineer, by temperament, finds comfort in the rational workings of things.

 

If you find you are technically oriented, I advise strongly against becoming a patent attorney. It is not an intellectually rewarding path. To each his/her own of course.

 

If you are simultaneously interested in law and engineering, you are probably blessed/cursed with ADHD (a very Armenian condition). If that's the case, read books on how you can actually leverage it to your advantage while building a support system that takes care of the "details" for you. Basically a "secretary" of some sort; normally a family member (mother?) that is willing to embrace that role without undue nagging and guilt-tripping. Oh, and you do need to decide what to do, when you can get around to it

 

In general, greater rewards come with greater risks. If you value security over the pursuit of something extraordinary, you need to take some chances, and accept that you may have to live with the negative consequences of failure.

 

One last thing: you often learn more from talking to failed people than "successful" ones. The former are a sure source of information about mistakes to avoid. The "winners" often don't really know why the heck they became successful, don't know that they don't know, are typically unaware that their success was in good part due to luck and circumstance, and can give you tragically misinformed guidance.

 

Good luck.

 

ADHD huh, now there is a thought.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[LK82]

Levon, du irenc mi lsi. I think Law school is a great idea. But don't do Poli Sci as a Bachelor; choose some other field you like such as Bio or Psych or even English. I wish I could go to law school and become a trial attorney. But it is just not feasible for my situatiion. And no matter what you do stay AWAY from personal injury law. It's mundane, non-challenging and not worth the time and effort you put into it.

 

By the way do not ask practicing attorneys if you should follow that route. They will laugh at you and tell you to do something more productive with your time. And of all professionals, attorneys are most likely to undergo depression. But dentists kill themselves, so I guess depression is not so bad.

 

 

Thanks Em. I was thinking about pharmaceutical law, or criminal defense. My decision will be based solely on the amount of money involved. I've heard from some people who are disappointed with their chosen career, yet a majority of them wouldn’t be as unhappy if their compensation was rewarding enough. I have another week to decide which path I will take. If I choose Law then I'll major in English, if not then ill major in Engineering and branch off to either mechanical or electrical.