Vera Posted April 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 No. Natural means "within the laws of nature"... What does it mean "laws of nature"? Does that mean within the realm in which we can perceive existence? Yes Ok so after all this exchange, based on your answers, we have established that God is not natural which means God is not within the realm in which we can perceive existence. If God doesn't exist within the realm in which we can perceive existence, then how can you possibly say He exists? Who said he exists? Did I??? I don't have any opinion about whether he does or doesn't. I didn't even take part in my own poll. I'm still trying to find out. And that was the point of my post, I tried to find out what other Armenians think. I was a small child when my family moved from Yerevan and since then I lived mostly in Pasadena. Most Armenians that I met here are religious, but this poll shows that they actually have a slight bend to atheism, considering that most societies are overwhelmingly religious. I'll keep checking for the results of this poll. I think once it gets to around a 100 vote, we'll have some rough idea about where our nation (I assume mostly Armenians from diaspora) stand on religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vera Posted April 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 I am sure none of you have sought a god either. Chances are that god was handed to you at birth along with all of your stuffed toys and you just took it because you had no choice. And because humans are programed by evolution to trust their parents for survival reasons, it has become truth to you without due skepticism. The act if seeking god is meaningless and ridiculous. One can "find" a god anywhere as long as one wants to. Knowledge is not acquired through surrendering to ones fears and sentiments or to the rhetoric of others: it is acquired through logic, reason and the scientific method. Thus is the best way in which the narrow scope of human perception and understanding can draw truthful conclusions on the nature of the universe. Part of the challenge that believers will face is that there will be intelligent people like Arvestaked who will give them such logical reasons about why they should doubt the existence of their god. To say things like "to each his own", "Let me believe what I believe" and such are in my opinion signs of defeat. Something has either to be true or not. And the way we can find out is to question and try and unswer the challenges of the quoted statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 (edited) Vera jan, just because we don't like to attack and constantly insult those who do not believe doesn't mean that we are defeated!!! You sound just like another one of those "I AM SMARTEN THEN THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN GOD, I USE MORE LOGIC THEN THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND ESPECIALLY I USE MORE SCIENTIFIC APPROACH THEN THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN GOD" I sure would love to hear your view and approach to this questions, since you started the thread... So let's hear it - Let's hear how you start insulting us the "believers" by saying that you are smarter then us, more intelligent then us, etc... I don't know if you read few posts back, but I will repeat myself, OH HAIL TO OUR NONE-BELIEVERS AS THEY ARE MORE NOBLE, KNOWLEDGABLE, LOGICAL AND SCIENTIFIC THEN US!!! (yes that's sarcasm)... Even more I would like to know your knowledge on Armenian History as well, how much of it do you know... Again here I would love to hear the science explaint the beginging of everything, maybe we need Arvestaget to be envolved in this conversation... Sip what you say in this case? I want science to explain to me where we come from. Science says everything is made form molecules, well then what are the molecules made of? ok let's say you answer that one too, then what are those made of that make the molecules... well I am guessing you already get the point what this is leading to, and infitine number of thing that create one another, yet there is countless arguements as to where it all begins, simply you can't say it started from nothing because something had to make it all happen... All I know is none of us can prove anything since we don't know and will never know which one is right or wrong, besides you would be very happy to see 100 people vote on this subject, that is a very high number for a pole on the Forum!!! Edited April 9, 2008 by Ashot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LK82 Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Hello people jan. I’m back. If you don’t mind I shall include my 10000 cents’ on this topic. On a personal note: I don’t think I’m smarter than anyone simply because he or she believes in Religion (specifically our Armenian fundamentals of Christianity) There are some religions like, cow, fire, idol, etc, worshiping that I would like to think that I’m very smart for not believing. Armenians were pagans many centuries ago, but if you put that into contrast with the great thinkers of our 20th century, logical thinkers at that time were the stupidest people of society. The point is that Christianity did not exist in Armenia; therefore our civilization was not created already enlightened to the being of God, and Christ. We were sent a savior of our souls, God wanted to give humans another chance in the redemption of their souls, since all previous efforts had failed (due to the presence of the devil on earth) he decided to send his one and only begotten son, Jesus Christ! Yes we were pagans and we did believe in fire, but we were not born into believing in that either. This practice was imposed on us mostly by the masses and their influence over a small group of people who would only later in history come to be known as the Armenians! (tada!) Vera jan: If you need a poll to help you find your spiritual path, then good-luck, you’re going to need it. As far as the Diaspora having more non-believers compared to Armenians living in Armenia. It might be true; its sounds true, but as they say in Hollywood, show me the money! Ashot’s right, why do non-believers always try to convince others not to believe. As if the school of non-believing teaches you to do this? Non-believers are becoming more and more hostile and aggressive in their cause compared to those who do believe. I sense a new front on the battle war, and non-believers don’t have the stomach to die for something that requires no believing in. I stopped believing on my own recognition, no one convinced me to. They’re personal reasons, and I have no one but myself to answer to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LK82 Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 I should've excluded the more violent religions such as Radical islam, or that the teachings in the Quran in general can be translated as violent and abusive. Christianity in itself is a form of peace, love, understanding and helping others. I dont know much about the Jewish religion, but Im pretty sure its similar in many ways. Em, I comend you for being so understanding and thoughtful! How do you do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vera Posted April 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Vera jan, just because we don't like to attack and constantly insult those who do not believe doesn't mean that we are defeated!!! You sound just like another one of those "I AM SMARTEN THEN THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN GOD, I USE MORE LOGIC THEN THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND ESPECIALLY I USE MORE SCIENTIFIC APPROACH THEN THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN GOD" I sure would love to hear your view and approach to this questions, since you started the thread... So let's hear it - Let's hear how you start insulting us the "believers" by saying that you are smarter then us, more intelligent then us, etc... I don't know if you read few posts back, but I will repeat myself, OH HAIL TO OUR NONE-BELIEVERS AS THEY ARE MORE NOBLE, KNOWLEDGABLE, LOGICAL AND SCIENTIFIC THEN US!!! (yes that's sarcasm)... Even more I would like to know your knowledge on Armenian History as well, how much of it do you know... Again here I would love to hear the science explaint the beginging of everything, maybe we need Arvestaget to be envolved in this conversation... Sip what you say in this case? I want science to explain to me where we come from. Science says everything is made form molecules, well then what are the molecules made of? ok let's say you answer that one too, then what are those made of that make the molecules... well I am guessing you already get the point what this is leading to, and infitine number of thing that create one another, yet there is countless arguements as to where it all begins, simply you can't say it started from nothing because something had to make it all happen... All I know is none of us can prove anything since we don't know and will never know which one is right or wrong, besides you would be very happy to see 100 people vote on this subject, that is a very high number for a pole on the Forum!!! Ashot jan, I am sorry that you have got the impression as if I was refering to you when I wrote about defeat. You are a very nice guy and I wouldn't want to agitate you purposefully. But I said that in general those who don't wish to face facts and continue through a constructive dialogue are defeated and I still hold on to my point. If one doesn't care to explain what god is and says he believes in him, why do others have to take that for a valid position? No need to get angry over this I'm just trying to reason. That's all. I don't know much about Armenian history. But how is that going to be relevant to this? I would really like to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vera Posted April 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Vera jan: If you need a poll to help you find your spiritual path, then good-luck, you're going to need it. Are you insane? Who is looking for a spiritual path? I said I just want to find out about what other Armenians think about religion. Did I say any more than that? I repeat. I don't have an opinion about whether god exists. I have no idea. I'm not an atheist and not a believer. I like talking about it, hearing opinions and so on. I am not on a mission to find a "spiritual path". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LK82 Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 I dont think im insane...the last time I checked into a medical facility to stay current with a court oder for eating human beings while they were alive, the MD there said Im not insane and free to leave. So I guess the answer would be...hmmmm no im not insane Relgious conversations always bring out the best and worst sides of people, it seemed like you had some reasoning for the poll. Oh well if you didnt you didnt, who am I to judge. Have you ever tried meditating? Seriously, have you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 If one doesn't care to explain what god is and says he believes in him, why do others have to take that for a valid position? Vera jan, I'm not a believer and I understand you well. At the same time, I must admit people who do belive in God, most of them I know are reasonable people. Let's not forget about Gladzori Hamalsaran. The priests from Gladzor were ture scientists who also belived on God. Harc@ ira bnuytov shat shat bard a. Yes, du, u mnacats bolor@ ovqer havatacyal chen, tramabanelis irenc nersum ayd bac tegh@ urish dzev en lcrel. Tramabanlu ayd @ndacqin yerb poqr inch zgacmunq es kpcnum, arden mtnum es amboghjovin urish iravijaki mej. Isk mardik vor havatum en, irenc mot da arden yentamshakuyt e dardzel. Ays mardik mnacats bolor harcerum voch havatacyalneric shat aveli lav karogh en tramabanel, mievnuyn jamanak, irenc mej krelov 'bardzyalin' havatalu kirq@/jigh@/"gitakcutyun@". Kan shat hogevorakanner ovqer oktvum en ays pastic dardznelov irakan havatacyalin kronavor. Isk jogovurd@ chunenalov qo bardzracrats harci patasxan@, 'bardzyali' het hagordakcvelu, iren mej ir kurqi het hagordakcvelu, ir mej ayd bac@ lracnelu, nersum kayunutyun pntrelu jamanak darnum e "astsu masnagetneri" zoh@. "One desn't care to explain what god is" vorovhetev dra kariq@ chuni. Yentagitakcoren da arden dardzel e ir inquntuyan, ir nerqin yesi mas@. Teryevs amen mardu mot da xorutyuan tarber asdijanneri vra lini u tarber dzevov artahaytvi. Isk voch havatacyaner@, um hamar tramabanelu @ndatsq@ anmijapes kapvats e "ir nerqin yesi het"(u voch te barcyali), tramabanoren talis en qo bardzracrats hajord harc@ "why do others have to take that for a valid position?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 (edited) I don't believe that non-religious people are automatically more intelligent than religious people (though there are studies that show religious people to be less intelligent on average). There are plenty of religious people out there that are more intelligent than I am. It's not entirely an intelligence issue. The issue is that religious people have either had their minds raped and stolen by religion at a young age or they have succumb to their fears and sentiments, neither of which being necessarily linked to intelligence. It is easier to make a mess than it is to clean it up. Why do non-theists express their beliefs? Because the religious do and it is our right to react. There is no golden rule that says religion deserves more respect than the lack there of. Every cross worn round the neck or displayed in public, every WWJD bracelet, every bible in a hotel, every "Jesus Saves" bumber sticker, every aspect of media that takes the idea of the supernatural for granted, every time the effects of prayer on medical conditions is mentioned, every peice of currency that says "In God We Trust," every instance where law is derived from religion etc. etc. etc. counts as someone telling someone else that a god exists. And we have every right to react to that and say "Wait, you're wrong for all of these reasons." And don't talk to me about conversion. There has been religious proselytizing for for millenia. It's about time the other side do some recruiting if only to feel that reason and the potential of man isn't deteriorating. Edited April 9, 2008 by Arvestaked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Something that is always very common in these discussions is religious people saying "Well then how do you explain this." This is completely illogical. Science doesn't claim to know everything. Science is the process by which you come to know. (It's religion that tries to be absolute.) So there are always going to be things that science doesn't know. That does not validate the ideas that religion presents. The statement is illogical because it implies the following attempt at a proof: science doesn't know therefore religion knows. That is a terrible attempt at a justification. Secondly, this type of argument by the religious is called "worshipping the gaps" by the non-theists. Finding gaps in the knowledge of the scientific community (which is, philosophically speaking, inevitable) and claiming that that place is where god lies. This is an extremely weak and meaningless position especially given that through out history such instances defeated the religious position as science gained knowledge. Religion was born from the human discomfort of not having all of the answer. How convenient: you arbitrarily decide what the answers are and voila! you suddenly know everything you ever needed to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Arvestaket - I would love for you to write down some facts on why I should not believe in God... give me good reasons, instead of asking me why I do believe in it, give me facts why I shouldn't... It is not wise to think that all of the believers are the same... want to go a bit personal, I don't mind - I have never read a bible in my life, however I have read too many History books and have seen things in my life that do convince me there is a higher being... Now try and give me facts why I should not believe what I have seen with my own eyes, and what I believe for 23 years... Try it... Since that's what you are here for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 I don't believe that non-religious people are automatically more intelligent than religious people (though there are studies that show religious people to be less intelligent on average). There are plenty of religious people out there that are more intelligent than I am. It's not entirely an intelligence issue. The issue is that religious people have either had their minds raped and stolen by religion at a young age or they have succumb to their fears and sentiments, neither of which being necessarily linked to intelligence. It is easier to make a mess than it is to clean it up. Why do non-theists express their beliefs? Because the religious do and it is our right to react. There is no golden rule that says religion deserves more respect than the lack there of. Every cross worn round the neck or displayed in public, every WWJD bracelet, every bible in a hotel, every "Jesus Saves" bumber sticker, every aspect of media that takes the idea of the supernatural for granted, every time the effects of prayer on medical conditions is mentioned, every peice of currency that says "In God We Trust," every instance where law is derived from religion etc. etc. etc. counts as someone telling someone else that a god exists. And we have every right to react to that and say "Wait, you're wrong for all of these reasons." And don't talk to me about conversion. There has been religious proselytizing for for millenia. It's about time the other side do some recruiting if only to feel that reason and the potential of man isn't deteriorating. Arvestaked jan, my impression is that you too are a religious person. Religion doesn't mean a faith in God. Religion means to Rely-On... -and it could be anything. You just said "...the religious people have succumb to their FEARS AND SENTIMENTS". I see this is a very emotional issue for you-and the obsessive enthusiasm you demonstrate about the issue, shows you are not willing to understand the relgious people -and you are also not willing to change the subject. Winston Churchill, who was a man of reason, calls peple like you fanats. With such a behaviour, you can never negotiate. Driven out of anger and FEAR, you are willing to destroy everything and everyone who doesn't agree with you. Anyone who tries to impose his/her ideas on others without ever willing to change his/her position, is a relgious person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Arvestaked jan, my impression is that you too are a religious person. Religion doesn't mean a faith in God. Religion means to Rely-On... -and it could be anything. You just said "...the religious people have succumb to their FEARS AND SENTIMENTS". I see this is a very emotional issue for you-and the obsessive enthusiasm you demonstrate about the issue, shows you are not willing to understand the relgious people -and you are also not willing to change the subject. Winston Churchill, who was a man of reason, calls peple like you fanats. With such a behaviour, you can never negotiate. Driven out of anger and FEAR, you are willing to destroy everything and everyone who doesn't agree with you. Anyone who tries to impose his/her ideas on others without ever willing to change his/her position, is a relgious person. This doesn't even deserve a response. Now you're just making up a bunch of nonsense, being rhetorical and twisting language. Religion implies belief in the supernatural. Period. You are doing here what I have seen many do with the words "belief" and "faith" but on a much more absurd level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Belief in the supernatural? Including Santa-Calus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Belief in the supernatural? Including Santa-Calus? What are you talking about? I wasn't suggesting that religion requires one to believe in everything that is supernatural simultaneously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 (edited) Those of us who still insist on contributing to this thread should follow the stories coming out of Laredo Texas, where 50 year old pedophiliacs use the "word" of god and jesus to rape 16 year old vrgins. Which god and jesus are talking about? The god and jesus that promotes grandfathers raping their own grandchildren? The world would be such a wonderful place without all those so called "religions". The hell with all of them! For the third time this week my doorbell rang. This time I decided to open the door, knwowing full well who they were. I aked them if they were "jehovahs" , they said yes. The I told them to get the F off my case and go to Israel where "yehovah" is "king". Remember what St. Paul said when said "If God be with us, who can be against us"? With "yehovah/god?" being on our side, who needs "satan"? OK! OK! Call me a pagan, do me the honor, place another "feather in my cap". Why are we worshipping the "yehovah" of some other garbage people and insulting our own "astuats"? Edited April 10, 2008 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 (edited) To: Do you believe in God I'll reply: Why should it matter to you on whatever or not I believe in God To: Clarify I'll answer: What is important is whatever you believe or not not what I believe. Senseless question which is so much important to answer for those adhering to a religion (Theism and yes Atheism). You're free to place a god in your life or not, take that freedom given to you, you have better things to do than requesting others to reply on such a personal question. Edited April 10, 2008 by DominO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 (edited) Arvestaket - I would love for you to write down some facts on why I should not believe in God... give me good reasons, instead of asking me why I do believe in it, give me facts why I shouldn't... Here are some basics of logic for you my dear Ahot: 1. In order to believe something, you have to have reasons to believe it. 2. Not having reasons to not believe in something doesn't mean you should believe it. Now earlier you said you follow logic in your life. If you follow logic, and you don't agree with either #1 or #2, then please say why. Otherwise, admit you have no good reason for believing in God and you just believe because someone told you to do it. In other words, in a "logical" world, it is always the responsibility of the person that comes up with some random thing to believe in that needs to justify why he has that belief ... NOT the other way around. But if you really insist on having reasons why you should not believe in your God, start making a list why you shouldn't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I can guarantee you most of the reasons are going to be the same for your current "God". Edited April 11, 2008 by Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Sip jan, esi verchin anqamnem batsatrelu, sranits heto chem tsankanum vor duq mez portseq heghapoxel menqel dzez!!! Xntrem - The Universe did not create itself nor it happened by an accident. Not to forget to mention if everything is taken in consideration by mathematical equations, the existence of energy which is a king amongst the people, would be a secondary matter. In another words not everything is possible to see or touch, and can be explained only by belief and sensible understanding. What exists within each of us, can only be self explanatory, cannot be explained simply because it is not seen or touched. Even the gases that are explained to be the reason for the universe's creation could not be an accident or unreasonable, there is a reason for everything! Isn't it your argument that nothing can be without a reason, and nothing can exist just like that!!! Therefore Sip jan - some things you can't explain, some things that I can't - so you can't confuse Logic with Belief. As soon as you use the Logic to explain to me how the world was created, has to have a reason, then I will use the same Logic to explain how there is a God that created the world!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 (edited) Why should there be a reason for everything? Edited April 11, 2008 by DominO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Belief without logic is called FAITH. Stop calling it "belief". You have FAITH in God. Fine. There is no way you can "believe" in God without a reason unless you are mentally retarded. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 (edited) Xntrem - The Universe did not create itself nor it happened by an accident. How can you, or any other human, possibly know this? There is NO way for you to know. Also, even if the creation of the Universe was not an accident, still that doesn't mean the appearance of humans was or was not an accident. It could VERY well be that some God started the universe but that humans just appeared as a side effect. Did you every consider this possiblity? I know you like to think a lot about things ... just because a God created the universe, that doesn't mean that same "God" created humans. Similarly, we exist and we are creating new things. Does that make us God? Or does it mean the stuff we create as humans was created by the "God" that created us? Of course not. Bottom line is, you can't just jump from "oh universe exists" to "A single God must have created everything". All that we really know point to the FACT that humans have existed for a very very very brief time compared to the age of the universe. Many other things have come and gone before humans and there is no indication AT ALL that us "humans" were by any means special or somehow intended to exist in the grand scheme of the Universe (or Multiverse as Domino would have us believe ) Edited April 11, 2008 by Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Sip jan, esi verchin anqamnem batsatrelu, sranits heto chem tsankanum vor duq mez portseq heghapoxel menqel dzez!!! Xntrem - The Universe did not create itself nor it happened by an accident. Not to forget to mention if everything is taken in consideration by mathematical equations, the existence of energy which is a king amongst the people, would be a secondary matter. In another words not everything is possible to see or touch, and can be explained only by belief and sensible understanding. What exists within each of us, can only be self explanatory, cannot be explained simply because it is not seen or touched. Even the gases that are explained to be the reason for the universe's creation could not be an accident or unreasonable, there is a reason for everything! Isn't it your argument that nothing can be without a reason, and nothing can exist just like that!!! Therefore Sip jan - some things you can't explain, some things that I can't - so you can't confuse Logic with Belief. As soon as you use the Logic to explain to me how the world was created, has to have a reason, then I will use the same Logic to explain how there is a God that created the world!!! "The Universe did not create itself nor it happened by an accident." This is your assumption; not a fact and not a proof. That statement is something you say to help a god be plausible. But it is meaningless and unfounded and cannot logically be used as a premise. "In another words not everything is possible to see or touch, and can be explained only by belief and sensible understanding. " This "belief and sensible understanding" (aka faith) of which you speak is cannot serve to explain anything at all. As a matter of fact it is a contadiction in terms: faith implies that explanation is not needed. Explanation presumes knowledge and knowledge can only be acquired through logic, reason and the scientific method. If it cannot be seen, touched or described indirectly, it cannot be believed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Sip I always thought that you would bring out a strong argument and be more noble about this subject, but sorry, your explanations are just not good enough for me to even consider them as facts or strong points... It is pointless for me to explain you something because you will never have the courage to accepts some of the things!!! You have no faith, you don't believe in anything - therefore there is no point to explain you anything, all you know is what you read in your books... there is not much that you can argue on, in order for you to argue for something you have to have something really strong with facts in your hand, sorry to say you have nothing... just bunch of gibberish that doesn't make sense to me nor to anyone who has beliefs!!!... Pointless arguments can go on forever, so unless you can prove anything you say, please do not even bother to convince me that your way is the only way!!! You should first define logic, afterwards you will see that even a bod believing person can be more logical then yourself, if you need help to define it let me know. Logic is not only meant for none-believers!!! Therefore, your argument that I don't use logic as much as you do is irrelevant!!! I might be using more logic then you, you don't know that and you never will, just because you and I are different!!! Sip I strongly suggest you use DICTIONARY.COM next time you start making statements!!! Faith - belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion confidence or trust in a person or thing belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc a system of religious belief the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc. These are all definitions of FAITH Including this - Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing. Belief - The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons Something believed; an opinion or conviction confidence; faith; trust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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