Beginning of Clashes

[Takoush]

A general point: We cannot afford to be foolish. Big and powerful countries with a variety of "insurance policies" can afford and continue to do stupid things, but by virtue of their "indispensible" positions in one way or another, get away with it for the most part. Armenia is an eminently disposable country for the rest. Regardless of how much some people jump up and down shouting "we should be a normal country!", "dammit we ARE a normal nation", we are not, and we will not be in the foreseeable future. We either wise up really fast or we choose between extinction or indefinite obscurity.

 

A "comparative" point:

The recent events are worse for two reasons:

1. The parliament shootings could be viewed as an isolated incident due to one crazy man. When tens of thousands of people do something that makes no freaking sense, it reflects something about the deteriorated state of the culture itself.

2. 1999 was less than a decade after independence, and could also be "forgiven" as part of growing pains. Nine years later, and we get orders of magnitude more people acting stupidly in a very public manner shows that, at least by some measures, we are going backwards, not forwards. Furthermore, such collective stupidity has a poisonous effect on diasporan assimilation rate. Who wants to go through the considerable effort and time it takes to resist assimilation just to keep an association with a country and culture that cannot even show some special cohesion. Yes, in addition to not being able to afford being stupid, that means we cannot afford to be "normal" and "ordinary". We can find "normal and ordinary" in our respective host cultures, and assimilate. Much easier. And without its diaspora, Armenia would be an insignificant ex-soviet republic in well-deserved obscurity.

You seem to come up with insights and some vital solutions for the motherland.

 

I will further to your input by a suggestion that I should like our population in the motherland to be better educated on how to be astute in politics, to better educate the people that it is vital to stay more cool and be fair in the polls.

 

I think educated politicians and educators from the diaspora can go and educate our people in there in this direction.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Takoush

[MosJan]

Yervand jan Jisht es

sakayn misht che yerb mer tsankutyuner / hamapatasxanum en irakanutyan het

 

Astvats ta qo asatsov lini mek or yev menq el voghj linenq tesnenq

[MosJan]

hetaqrqir joghovurd enq menq - menq mer yerkir@ chenq lkarroghanum pahel, karavarel, apahovel ir b@nakichnerin yev der urish yerk@rnerin el p@novum yev q@nnadatum enq

 

Tarorinak joghovurd enq

[MosJan]

qich araj Armenianow .com kardaluts es hodvatsin handipetsy - te vorqanov e na jisht kam s@xal Da el Astvats gity

 

An opposition member of parliament has been knifed as he tried to intervene into a clash between a group of people and police guards on duty at the Yerevan mayor's office building.

 

Armen Martirosyan, of the Heritage party, was knifed in the leg, but the cut missed main arteries, the party spokesman told ArmeniaNow. The lawmaker was hospitalized and underwent surgery and his wound is not life-threatening.

 

Parliament deputies from the Heritage party have been at the scene of a massive public protest in the area between the French Embassy and the Mayor's Office providing mediation in a bid to keep people away from clashes with police.

 

Spokesman Hovsep Khurshudyan says his fellow party members had noticed a group of people who, they said, appeared not to belong to the peaceful protestors, going towards the mayor's office police guards. Then, they say, the group started to brutally beat the security personnel at the mayor's office.

 

In an effort to stop the violence, Martirosyan reportedly tried to stand in the middle to protect the policemen from the raging group.

 

The Ministry of Health has confirmed that two people have received fractures resulting from a police vehicle being driven into the crowd, however the ministry disavows an account saying that one woman was killed in the incident.

[Takoush]

All Armenia needs, 10-15 decent honest politicians who are tough but fair and have the backing of the army and the police forces to rid the country of the corrupt people who are hurting the country and setting a bad example to follow for the rest.

 

There is no shortage of brain power nor skilled workers as we all know about the literacy rate which is pretty high. Armenians are hard working people who want to be rewarded for their hard work, the world is full of those success stories and there is no reason why they can't do it in the homeland given the fertile grounds for it by ridding the country of corruption.

 

Armenia has a big diaspora that can invest if the business environment is safeguarded from corrupt officials and welcoming by the people at large in order to stimulate the economy. It is also important to raise the standard of living for everybody so that poeple are not tempted to go the way of the bribe in order to supplement their income.

Yes it's all true and possible; but we've been talking now for a good many years to have them stop the corruption to no avail unfortunately. It's true, when the heads of a country are honest and good the rest follows; but we've been saying it in here and wishing and hoping and it hasn't happened yet unfortunately. I well know that most people in our country are very smart; but they seem to use their intelligence like the way it used to be throughout the soviet era on operating "black market" and corruption. Though if they find and exercise good political sense and virtues coming from the heads of the country, than the people will sense the good and well meanings and they will follow. We are still waiting for it though. I think what Twilight Bark is saying pretty much is "we better wisen up very soon and quickly, or else"!

[MosJan]

it no politics but ! it the human nature to do thinks wrong - not only in Armenia this was in USA

 

 

Watch this video of Carson Public Works Commission Chairman Jan Schaefer get smacked lightly at a Carson City Council meeting and totally overreact! Mayor Jim Dear wants Vera Robles Dewitt (assailant, and owner of Carson Bail Bonds) arrested!

[AVO]

karogha yev ka, bayts der chenq gtel. nuyn@ verabervuma politicnerin

[elle]

Just to add to the article above...

 

 

Erevuma vor manten engel drsi 'mi kanis@' vor vochinch irants mot chi statsvel. Now they're threatening that it will hamper the US-Armenian relations... the statement from the article. They are simply irritated by Armenia...by the fact that we're pro-Russian, keep bringing up the Genocide issue every where, pro-Iranian with gas pieline (economically & politcally friendly), against joining the NATO, and that NK is still unresolved (to the benefit of Azeris)... there are so many reasons that they want nothing but a weaker and destablized Armenian state. If you're a weak state, you're easily controlled and this is why they wanted to bring someone like LTP to be able to weaken the country and control it through LTP (the puppet) to their advantage.

[elle]

Nicole Pashinian urging the protesters to turn to VIOLENCE in order to take over the government!

Edited March 9, 2008 by elle

[Aray]

The government is lying to its own people. WHY? The thugs who looted the buildings and the people who gave the command to shoot should be brought to justice. A loss of human lives should have consequences and any cover up by the government should be condoned.

 

I would recommend you and everybody else to watch the detail coverage of March 1st events in videos below:

Part 1:

 

Part 2:

 

Part 3:

 

Part 4:

Edited March 10, 2008 by Aray

[elle]

I would recommend you and everybody else to watch the detail coverage of March 1st events in videos below:

Part 1:

 

Part 2:

 

Part 3:

 

Part 4:

 

 

The last video just made me sick the way they ran after the police car, then beat those policemen and burn the car down!

I had no idea we had animals among ourselves. Now let them get what they deserve. This is why I was saying before that LTPs followers looked like they were the low part of the society...just by looking at the faced of the protesters at the Liberty Square before these events occurred. Only a low life loosers would go out and behave like this in the streets. They are so ignorant that they didn't stop to think for a minute the damage they're causing to their city in the first place. Nikol Pashinyan should be shot! I used to think that both sides should have behaved a little different, but I'm so glad that the government started arresting some of them now.

The rumors that a pregnant woman was killed is BS...what would a pregnant woman do among these animals at 3am-4am at night throwing rocks? I keep hearing about it here and there and its so annoying because it doesn't take any brains to know that its BS even if you hear it 100 times non stop.

Edited March 10, 2008 by elle

[alpha]

I don't know what that video was trying to prove. The soldiers were not shooting from real guns anyways...if the government should be brought to justice for that, how about all the other thugs who vandalized and killed the soldiers? Shouldn't it go both ways? The US has acted even worse during the Los Angeles riots, so why hasn't anyone urged the administration to step down? That's jus one example. If a government steps down after every incident, what kind of government is it? There are always incidents that happen in every country...some bigger than this and some not was big... so should we start changing government every year now? Especially when the alternative is a traitor? Do you need glasses to see all that? Do you need glasses to see that if it wasn't for LTP, all this wouldn't have happened in the first palce? Since we all realize that there's no better alternative of the current administration, why go with the worst one just to have that 'change'?

If LTP ever get power in Armenia (which will never happen again after all this) I would be worried about Armenia's future in terms of its role in the region.

Also, don't forget that Russia endorsed SS, not LTP, so that means that only SS will become the president...whether it's 10,000 marching for him or 100,000.

 

What should be done:

1.Armenia should become independent once again, instead of being viewed as a Russian province.

2. People should get access to youtube and other sources of information. (we used to make fun of Turkey for blocking access to youtube, see what happened).

3. Freedom to move and assemble

4. Freedom to express one's opinion, even if it's contradicts the government's.

 

[Takoush]

By Knights of Armenia

 

Considering the protesters were being advised to arm themselves, and that they rioted, the police were well within their rights to retain control of the situation. The government shouldn't step down simply because a power-hungry politician has his followers riot.

True! true!

 

 

 

Alpha:

 

And plus what right to they have those illiterate houlihans to ask the government to step down.

 

Sargsyan won the vote in all parts and that's that! He is now the president of Armenia!

 

By trying to overthrow the existing government they will only make our enemies happy.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Takoush

[elle]

True! true!

 

 

 

Alpha:

 

And plus what right to they have those illiterate houlihans to ask the government to step down.

 

Sargsyan won the vote in all parts and that's that! He is now the president of Armenia!

 

By trying to overthrow the existing government they will only make our enemies happy.

 

 

Not only that, but I bet in a year or two they would do the same agains the LTP adminstration, if LTP became the president of course. I'm trying to say that the same hooligans would try to overthrow his governmant the same way after they see that LTP didn't bring the changes he promised to bring.

Edited March 10, 2008 by elle

[elle]

What should be done:

1.Armenia should become independent once again, instead of being viewed as a Russian province.

2. People should get access to youtube and other sources of information. (we used to make fun of Turkey for blocking access to youtube, see what happened).

3. Freedom to move and assemble

4. Freedom to express one's opinion, even if it's contradicts the government's.

 

Armenia is lost without Russia...unless you want Turkey and Azerbaijan to share border, Russia should always play teh role of the protector of Armenia.

 

People had the freedom to move and assembly for nearly 10 days.....in 'democratic' countries of the west, they would have been disperesed within a day without getting any authorization/approval from the government!!! The SS & RK duo tried to act 'democratic' in the eyes of the west by letting the LTP gang gather day and night at the Liberty Square, which they should not have let in the first place without any legal authorization. Demonstration in Armenia are tolerated, unless it illegal without any consent from the government.

Also, why are you ignoring the fact that LTP never authorized his rallies like he should have done? He was told to get authorization, but he never did...ignorance on his part. Be glad that the current administration let them stay that long and didn't send them home a week earlier. LTP is so ignorant that when the Catholicos came to his door to speak to him after what happened, he simply did not want to meet with him. Not only that, but he spoke negatively about Charles Aznavour and few other Armenians. LTP is arrogant and who the hell does he think to speak negatively about people like Charles Aznavour and the rest?

 

[alpha]

It’s blasphemous to call people “hooligans”, who fight for their fundamental rights to elect government. Hooligans in all societies should be prosecuted; however political dissent should never be classified as hooliganism. Those are the first steps toward authoritarianism. People who break windows and loot stores should be prosecuted, no questions about it, but prosecution should not stop there. The leaders who give commands to shoot at civilians should be prosecuted as well. Ceausescu was a revered leader for many years, but when he ordered his troops to shoot at its own people, he created a massive discontent which led to revolution. Kocharyan was a respected leader during the Artsax War, but when he gave order to shoot at people he crossed the line, and joined the ranks of Ceausescu and Co. Blocking access to information (Youtube, a1plus, etc.) and censuring information shows the frightening face of the regime. What should be done:

- stop information blockade,

- start prosecuting people who violated people’s rights to have fair elections (ballot staffing, intimidating people, bribing),

- Conduct new and fair elections to heal the wounds created in the society

- Prime Minister should step down if he wants to run for the President (it’s says in the Constitution).

 

Velvet revolutions are not and have never been the norm. When people feel unable to express their voice in ballots, they express their anger through massive demonstrations. It makes me laugh when people blame the opposition about illiteracy. The president’s knowledge of Armenian is below 8th grade level (he can not be blamed for it, he grew up in Azerbaijan, where Armenian was not advocated by the government and rose through the ranks of Azerbaijani Communist Party, which was led by Heydar Aliev). His top cadres have sub-standard educational qualifications. The argument by Aghvan Hovsepyan proves my point. (I still can not understand was he being sarcastically funny, or was he serious about hypnosis”).

 

Armenians ‘Hypnotized By Ter-Petrosian’

 

Former President Levon Ter-Petrosian and his allies resorted to a mass hypnosis of the population and other “psychological tricks” to muster popular support for their bid to topple Armenia’s leadership, Prosecutor-General Aghvan Hovsepian said on Friday.

He indicated that the allegation could be part of the Armenian authorities’ coup case against the opposition presidential candidate that has already resulted in scores of arrests.

 

“All along they carried out a psychological sabotage against the segment of the people who went to their rallies and who were supposed to be the instruments of the entire criminal act,” Hovsepian told a news conference. “During the psychological sabotage they used all kinds of psychological tricks, mechanisms of deception.”

 

The powerful prosecutor said the ongoing investigation into the post-election deadly unrest in Armenia will therefore be conducted not only by law-enforcement officials but also psychologists and psychotherapists.

 

Ter-Petrosian was thought to be highly unpopular when he ended his decade-long political retirement and announced his participation in the February 19 presidential election last September. Despite a hostile coverage of his political activities by the government-controlled media, he quickly attracted a substantial following and emerged as Prime Minister Serzh Sarkisian’s main election challenger with his harsh attacks on the government.

 

According to the Central Election Commission, Ter-Petrosian won 21.5 percent of the vote, trailing only Sarkisian, the official election winner. The ex-president has rejected the official vote results as fraudulent and rallied tens of thousands of supporters in Yerevan to demand a re-run of the ballot.

 

In Hovsepian’s words, the more than 350,000 votes which the CEC says were cast for Ter-Petrosian were primarily the result of a “mass psychosis” created by the opposition leader and his entourage. He claimed that was part of their broader coup plot foiled by the Armenian authorities.

 

The powerful prosecutor said a total of 68 opposition leaders and activists have been arrested or detained and about 350 others questioned as part of the ongoing inquiry. He said 52 of them have already been formally charged with seeking to “usurp power,” organizing or participating in “mass disorders” and assaulting law-enforcement officers. The accusations stem from Saturday’s clashes in Yerevan between security forces and thousands of Ter-Petrosian supporters.

 

According to the Armenian police, as many as 407 people were detained during and after the unrest that left at least eight people dead. A police statement on Thursday said the vast majority of them were set free.

 

Some of the released oppositionists have already gone public with harrowing accounts of torture at the hands of police officers. The Ter-Petrosian camp says at least 98 of its supporters remained under arrest as of late Thursday. Dozens of others are believed to be on the run.

 

Hovsepian again indicated that Ter-Petrosian too may end up behind bars soon. He said testimony given by detainees proves that all opposition actions were “managed from one center.”

 

Hovsepian also said that all of the detainees will go on trial soon. “I have made a decision to finish those cases very quickly and send them to the court,” he told reporters. “We have no intention to keep them in our coffer. Very soon you will be witnessing the presentation and discussion of that evidence during court sessions.”

 

[Takoush]

Yes Ele, may God forbid if LTP won, he would have given the keys of our nation to the turks and the azeris.

 

Thank God that we have Russia that we are in agreement with and also Iran as our good faith neighbors. We certainly need both of them and their goodwill support for the sake of our newly built Republic.

[alpha]

Yes Ele, may God forbid if LTP won, he would have given the keys of our nation to the turks and the azeris.

 

Thank God that we have Russia that we are in agreement with and also Iran as our good faith neighbors. We certainly need both of them and their goodwill support for the sake of our newly built Republic.

 

 

You don't live in Armenia, it's not your home, why do you care who has the keys. Stop having claims on somebody else's house.

[Takoush]

You don't live in Armenia, it's not your home, why do you care who has the keys. Stop having claims on somebody else's house.

 

Why do I care?????? How could you say such things to me when I consider Armenia my home as a clean cut Armenian woman who's heart is solely with Armenia and of the Armenians.

 

How could you say such a thing to me when I devoted most of my life not only to stay and read Armenian but I drew hundreds of people to become and stay Armenian in the diaspora. You don't.... you don't know me and you don't know all the good work I did for my people (Armenian people) in the diaspora to speak to me like that. I am one of the people who put forth an Armenian paper. Yes me! My efforts and deeds are well known throughout the diasporan Armenians. I not only live for the good of my Republic of Armenia but I cry and despair with her downs and yet laugh with happiness with her good times.

 

My home now maybe in the diaspora and I was born in the diaspora thanks to the turks and the attaturks who killed most of our nation, including my anscestors. However, Armenia still needs the diasporan Armenians with a clear conscious Armenian heart, such as myself. Yes we are not physically in Armenia now; but don't let that fool you, we live, we laugh and we think every awaken moment for Armenia. And one day I will go there to join my brethren. So let me give you one little advice... I suggest you don't ever talk to me like that again!!!!

Edited March 10, 2008 by Takoush

[elle]

Takoush,

Ignore the irrelevant comment

Not worth it at all!

[Takoush]

Takoush,

Ignore the irrelevant comment

Not worth it at all!

Yes you're right. Thank you Ele jan.

[KnightOfArmenia]

You don't live in Armenia, it's not your home, why do you care who has the keys. Stop having claims on somebody else's house.

 

And you show your colors. Please, stop while you have a bit of self respect. Armenia is my home as much as it is the home of any other Armenian. If you can't argue facts, then admit defeat graciously and bow out - unlike what LTP did.

[Takoush]

And you show your colors. Please, stop while you have a bit of self respect. Armenia is my home as much as it is the home of any other Armenian. If you can't argue facts, then admit defeat graciously and bow out - unlike what LTP did.

Very well put indeed!!!!!!!

 

 

Edited March 10, 2008 by Takoush

[alpha]

According to the Constitution of the Republic of Armenia, Republic of Armenia is home of the citizens of the Republic, be it a Kurd, Russian, Armenian or any other ethnic group (even a Turk). Learn to respect the rule of law. If you want to be your home, start applying for a citizenship, then you can have the full freedom to call it your home. Otherwise, you are just a guest in the country of your ancestors, and as far as I know guests don't get to keep any keys.

[Anoushik]

Alpha, are you Armenian?