Viewing Of Underclothing Not Desired ?

[Takoush]

this made me laugh very hard, :D right on girl!

dont take any shit from nobody

I wish you could say the same to others too when they are defending what they believe in.

[ED]

I wish you could say the same to others too when they are defending what they believe in.

 

i wish you stop taking every post from anybody personal.

my comment had nothing what so ever to do with this topic, i could care less if someone had a vartik on or not! but my son thinks its HOT!

 

 

but if it would make you feel better, then I agree with you also.

but honestly, whats wrong with the whole concept anyways?

if someone wants to look and is sexy why not? isn't what this country is all about? vanity ah vanityyyy

have you tried wearing one Anahid?

[Takoush]

i wish you stop taking every post from anybody personal.

my comment had nothing what so ever to do with this topic, i could care less if someone had a vartik on or not! but my son thinks its HOT!

but if it would make you feel better, then I agree with you also.

but honestly, whats wrong with the whole concept anyways?

if someone wants to look and is sexy why not? isn't what this country is all about? vanity ah vanityyyy

have you tried wearing one Anahid?

I don't take anyone's post personal.

 

Sure your son is very young and he is at the age that the hormones goes crazy. So I basically understand where your son is coming from. He is very young and he's at that age.

 

I know when a woman is made up nice and has a great body, a thong may look nice and not so offensive; on the other hand if a woman is obese and shows off her fat belly and fat behind looks more offensive than anything else. Nevertheless, isn't it better to see a woman's full breasts and tush a little bit at a time? Especially when she's made up nice? And in the bedroom?

 

Wearing what a thong? Why do you ask?

 

Not in public Ed.

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2007 by Anahid Takouhi

[Anoushik]

Can you tell whether that person is a criminal?

In some cases one can absolutely see whether a person is a criminal by what he is wearing.

Can you tell whether they are friendly or not?

Yes.

Whether they are interesting or dull?

Yes.

[Anoushik]

first, i don't agree that the culture is diminishing... in fact, i think it's thriving... second, i don't agree that this issue contributes to diminishing of a culture... i think it has no relavance...

Actually, I don't believe that culture is diminishing either currently, but if the trends continue and people start walking down the street wearing stripper's clothing, then yes, the culture will begin to diminish. But clearly, people are reluctant to let this happen, therefore they come up with the aforementioned dress codes.

[Anoushik]

che indz en hin ashxrahi addat@ & d@rvatsner@ aveli s@rtamot en qan es nor oreri anhargalits mtatselakerp@, anpuyt haqneladzev@... @endhamen@ 5 rope aveli jamak e xlum te t@ghanerits te axchiknerits or SHIK hagnven, isk mardik te yes es em uzzum ov inch kuzi togh mtatsy, giteq menq shaters voch meki masin chenq el mtatsum , batsy n@ranits asenq orinaki hamar - or mer @enkeroj quyr@ 17 tarekan k@rtsqer@ bats, vartik@ minj kogher@ ijats, andravartik@ advertise anelov surj e hyurasirum qez, de hima te @enkert e vat zgum, yev te du or portsum es chtesnelu tal te inchpes e n@ra hetuyq@ yev hetuyqi shrjakaayq2 I-Tuyts drvats bolorin ....

haskatsanq Sexy a / zuygeri hamar hajeli, sakayn voch amen teghh yev amen mardu dimats

ba mer harganq@ mer @entaniqi handep ?? ba en namus asats@ ?? chem kartsi te sa pativ k@beri voryeve mekin

 

hin ashxarh@ chem tesel...

Movses, I'm always so pleasantly surprised by your good judgment! In your busy schedule you express your personal opinion about something so scarcely on Hyeforum, that whenever you do, I'm always so happy to have gotten to know you.

[Watermin]

it all comes down to who's is doing the wearing or not-wearing.

 

dress codes should be limited to overweight people only. those with attractive bodies can wear anything or nothing.

 

this applies to women only.

 

 

[Anoushik]

How convenient for you, Watermin!

[nairi]

In some cases one can absolutely see whether a person is a criminal by what he is wearing.

 

Yes.

 

Yes.

 

Wow. I couldn't tell, you see.

[nairi]

Culture might just still exist, cavemen had cultures too afteral, it just wasn't as advanced as ours.

 

It is your prejudice to assume that our so-called culture (which is in no way uniform) is more advanced than those cultures that walk around half naked and sometimes more.

[nairi]

Which part, you mean ''society'', this word is probably alien for you so the possibility that a sentence which contain that word to be understood by you is slim.

 

You may just as well rely on freedom and walk in the streets naked, or defecate in public. What Anoushik is saying might sound extrem but a lot of it make sense. If you can't show any discipline, self restrain in public, this says a lot about you.

 

OK, hang on. Defecation can bring forth illness. Plus it smells.

 

In what way am I bothering you if I walk around naked? Perhaps if you saw naked people more often in public, you'd start getting used to it and it wouldn't bother you half as much. It's because this society has made a taboo of it that a tiny peek at someone's string makes you feel like the earth collapsed.

 

Besides, I couldn't walk around naked even if I wanted to. It's way too cold here for that. But I do, thank god, still have a choice to go wherever I want and avoid whatever I want. No one is forcing me to attend a wedding. No one is forcing me to work in high heels. No one is forcing me to go to a restaurant where I must wear the latest Versace dress. No one is forcing me to go to clubs where I'm not allowed to wear sneakers. There are enough people who care more about their friends and family being present at their wedding than what they are wearing, and there are enough jobs, restaurants, and clubs that are open to all sorts of fashion.

[Stormig]

Are you implying that cultures that have no problem with skin are common animals and that those who cover up everything (e.g. Saudis and Taliban) are the most civilized?

Bang! on the spot. Come on, folks - people were indignified by the bikini, whereas today it is the norm. Face it - everyone might be wearing that sort of stuff ten years from now. Unfortunately for you, you're going to have to get used to it.

 

And I strongly object to drawing parallels with a rightful ban on smoking in public. That darn smoke is intrusive, and taking a zheet in public is a threat to public health. Obviously cracks are neither.

[DominO123]

It is your prejudice to assume that our so-called culture (which is in no way uniform) is more advanced than those cultures that walk around half naked and sometimes more.

 

Actually IT IS, but I don't feel the interest to debate it with you.

[DominO123]

OK, hang on. Defecation can bring forth illness. Plus it smells.

 

In what way am I bothering you if I walk around naked? Perhaps if you saw naked people more often in public, you'd start getting used to it and it wouldn't bother you half as much. It's because this society has made a taboo of it that a tiny peek at someone's string makes you feel like the earth collapsed.

 

Besides, I couldn't walk around naked even if I wanted to. It's way too cold here for that. But I do, thank god, still have a choice to go wherever I want and avoid whatever I want. No one is forcing me to attend a wedding. No one is forcing me to work in high heels. No one is forcing me to go to a restaurant where I must wear the latest Versace dress. No one is forcing me to go to clubs where I'm not allowed to wear sneakers. There are enough people who care more about their friends and family being present at their wedding than what they are wearing, and there are enough jobs, restaurants, and clubs that are open to all sorts of fashion.

 

Walking naked is dangerous, men testosterone level rose to a pick level, making them more agressive, drivers can have accidents, rappists could get arosed and very well decide to rape. The ''you'' who will be walking naked will only show having no self disciplince nor self restrain. But selfish you won't of course care for public order. What I said to anonymouse on him leaving society could very well apply to you. Find better way to get attention than needing to walk half naked.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Domino

[DominO123]

Bang! on the spot. Come on, folks - people were indignified by the bikini, whereas today it is the norm. Face it - everyone might be wearing that sort of stuff ten years from now. Unfortunately for you, you're going to have to get used to it.

 

And I strongly object to drawing parallels with a rightful ban on smoking in public. That darn smoke is intrusive, and taking a zheet in public is a threat to public health. Obviously cracks are neither.

 

Bikini's are used for a special occasion, no one use them to simply walk in the street.

[Stormig]

Bikini's are used for a special occasion, no one use them to simply walk in the street.

So what about "tops" and "mid-rifs"? They're not worn on the beach, but they show as much skin. Most resort towns tolerate bikini tops over shorts or skirts. And what about mini-skirts and shorts themselves? Women wearing pants and short hair? They were frowned upon, too. But they are common-place today. The world is headed in a certain direction, whether we like it or not. I personally don't - including all the sporting of butt cracks or anything of the sort. But there is no choice other than to catch up with the world or remain... I don't know... Square, maybe?

Besides, the mention of rape does not bode well for this argument. It is the rapist that has problems with restraint and respect for infringing on another's rights, not the mini-skirt wearing or nudist who wishes to make a statement - or whatever. To make excuses for men's hormones may very well turn into blaming the victim, or it may excuse women's asking for rescheduling of exams or for make-up tests because of their PMS or the like. By the same token heaven forbid a Saudi driving along the French coast. "Legs!!!" and crash. Then he can whine to the police officer about all that skin. Decades from now people will likely be laughing at our arguments.

[nairi]

Besides, the mention of rape does not bode well for this argument. It is the rapist that has problems with restraint and respect for infringing on another's rights, not the mini-skirt wearing or nudist who wishes to make a statement - or whatever. To make excuses for men's hormones may very well turn into blaming the victim, or it may excuse women's asking for rescheduling of exams or for make-up tests because of their PMS or the like. By the same token heaven forbid a Saudi driving along the French coast. "Legs!!!" and crash. Then he can whine to the police officer about all that skin. Decades from now people will likely be laughing at our arguments.

 

Thank you.

[DominO123]

So what about "tops" and "mid-rifs"? They're not worn on the beach, but they show as much skin. Most resort towns tolerate bikini tops over shorts or skirts. And what about mini-skirts and shorts themselves? Women wearing pants and short hair? They were frowned upon, too. But they are common-place today. The world is headed in a certain direction, whether we like it or not. I personally don't - including all the sporting of butt cracks or anything of the sort. But there is no choice other than to catch up with the world or remain... I don't know... Square, maybe?

Besides, the mention of rape does not bode well for this argument. It is the rapist that has problems with restraint and respect for infringing on another's rights, not the mini-skirt wearing or nudist who wishes to make a statement - or whatever. To make excuses for men's hormones may very well turn into blaming the victim, or it may excuse women's asking for rescheduling of exams or for make-up tests because of their PMS or the like. By the same token heaven forbid a Saudi driving along the French coast. "Legs!!!" and crash. Then he can whine to the police officer about all that skin. Decades from now people will likely be laughing at our arguments.

 

We live in an advanced society, are not cavemen anymore, when anyone could mate anywhere. In the current society we do not live mainly on our instincts the way we lived a 100,000 years ago. It is stupid to think that people can walk on the streets naked and still keep their modern self restrain for the behavior of our encestors (tens of thousands of years ago). I am not making up excuses on men hormones, but it is true that hormones rise in sight of a naked woman, and this is natural. Natural also that a rise of hormone makes men more agressive, potential of disturbing social order wih increases of violence and rape. Being nake fitted well during the cavemen era, but this does not fit in the current social model where instincts are supressed and where reason control the self.

 

We might just as well castrate males and leave women naked in the streets. Also, walking half naked is not really a conscient choice for a woman, it is a mating behavior, it is subconscious, just like male reaction to it due to hormonal rise. Its like leaving the mating stimulus but restraining the reaction to this subconsious decision. While it is true that from the current social model, where male are disensibilised from childhood from the stimulus, things seem to not be as worst.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Domino

[Stormig]

That is exactly my point. Half a century ago people probably said the same about miniskirts - that it was mating behaviour or what have you, something women engaged in involuntarily. Today it is viewed as totally acceptable and "cute" instead of overtly sexy, something that should be curbed to "maintain social order" - that sounds like something you'd read off the Taliban's website, and we already know what they say about our lifestyle and how they think women should dress and comport, and they, too, argue about the virtues of distancing, isolating, women from their sexuality, so that men don't stray... The concern with desensitising probably doesn't mean that Saudis have the best sex lives, either.

Granted, a lot depends on the context and setting - but if we come back to the point about dress codes/restricting views of cracks, these are different times, and they may as well become totally acceptable instead of looked down on, regardless of BMI. Same with walking around naked - although I pray I won't have to see scrota hanging from under waist bands or something within my lifetime. I just don't see the point in resisting change or getting worked up about it.

[Em]

What is so wrong with seeing some skin? Anahid is making it seem as if these women are parading around in full frontal nudity. I can’t believe that the lower back and stomach area are offensive to some. I very well know that in our community (Armenians of L.A.) it is an issue; even though I was hoping that we would have progressed at a quicker pace.

 

I personally choose not to dress this way in the presence of my community. Anoushik jan, it is not because I am a better person for doing so, it is actually because my people are so repressed that I have to alter myself in their presence so as to not make them uncomfortable. I do this consciously and intentionally because I want to be accepted by them; however, I feel as if I am cheating myself and compromising who I am.

 

My issue with this is the right of choice, I don’t want to be restricted by a dress code. If I choose not to dress this way, it is my choice not to. How much police power will the gov’t be given? When will we wake up and realize that pretty soon, there will be no “personal” liberties?

 

I would like to mention that I am refraining from answering Anahid’s posts directly since I know she will perceive anything I say as a personal insult to her. I will just point out that she is not the only mother on the forum, hence not all mothers feels as she does regarding this matter. And I am sure if Nairi were to get married and have a child, she would not change her views on much. And she’d be in her right not to.

 

 

 

 

RE: Gap, I am too thin to fit into their clothes and I personally do not like the cut or wash of them.

[DominO123]

I don't think we should need any dressing codes, people should be intelligent enough to know what is too much. The point is that we live in a society, not in Nairi's world where everyone should have the right to do anything they want as long as it does not hurt their own ego. We've passed the time of the cavemen, you can not request people to be reasonable and not solely rely on their instinct when from the other side there is no sign of self restrain.

 

As for resisting changes, many social changes unfortunitly do not permit full human accomodation through the evolutionary process. What I mean is that testosterone level or human behavior induced by genetics are hardly manageble in a self imposed society, testosterone will not just drop, or some behavior vanish to take into account social changes. An advanced society tries actually to reduce the importances of instinct, and walking half-naked or naked goes against that. And if anything this will do the opposit of Nairi's ''freedom''. Because there is more contrast between a half-naked beautiful women vs half naked ugly women, vs reasonably dressed beautiful women vs reasonably dressed ugly women. This will further creat classes of people having more opportunities and advantages.

 

That is exactly my point. Half a century ago people probably said the same about miniskirts - that it was mating behaviour or what have you, something women engaged in involuntarily. Today it is viewed as totally acceptable and "cute" instead of overtly sexy, something that should be curbed to "maintain social order" - that sounds like something you'd read off the Taliban's website, and we already know what they say about our lifestyle and how they think women should dress and comport, and they, too, argue about the virtues of distancing, isolating, women from their sexuality, so that men don't stray... The concern with desensitising probably doesn't mean that Saudis have the best sex lives, either.

Granted, a lot depends on the context and setting - but if we come back to the point about dress codes/restricting views of cracks, these are different times, and they may as well become totally acceptable instead of looked down on, regardless of BMI. Same with walking around naked - although I pray I won't have to see scrota hanging from under waist bands or something within my lifetime. I just don't see the point in resisting change or getting worked up about it.

 

[MosJan]

Em jan - sa zargatsatsutyan kam t@getutyan masin che janik

du haskanalov ches hagnum iyn amen inch@ vro xanutyun tsaxvum e dzer harazatneri mot irents tun hyurutyan gnalis kam n@ranst shrjapatum, vor9osh chen haskana, vorosh@ anun k@k@ptsnen, voroshn el shat mets hajuyqov k@nayen qo hagats noradzev hagustin kam n@ra aranqits yerevatsogh marmni maserin..

 

norits em asum sa zargattsatsutyan kam t@getutyan harts che iyl dimatsinin hargelu manavand yerb barekam e iyn el tariqov mets , te che otar@ tekuz Hye tekuz otar mets hajuyqov yev gaytakrutyamb en nayum yev @emboshxnum iyd amenov

[Takoush]

That is OK for me EM. Whatever you say to me or not EM you are wrong to think that it will be taken by me as a personal insult.

 

However since you have mentioned me. I will tell you. I am of course older than you and apart from that, I am however a young person in general (in attitude and in looks). Nevertheless, I will tell you an incidence that happened to me here in New Jersey. First do be aware that New Jersey is not the same as L.A. I believe people in L.A. are more open about these subjects and free to wear a bit more open cut up attire than in here. However, about a month ago I went to Macy's to purchase clothing then this young lady passed us by wearing very, I mean very low cut pants. It wasn't jeans but pants that practically her whole abdomen and behind was showing. She was put up together nice, but I felt somewhat offended when I suddenly saw her and the guy behind me who was waiting in line also looked at me and started shaking his head.

 

Frankly, we don't see that much in here and perhaps that's why I took sort of an offense about her dress code. That's where I'm coming from.

 

Now as a mother and I am quite sure that you are as good a mother as I am (we're both Armenian protective and good mothers and we try our best, right? Of course)

 

But I feel that too much in anything is not good. Showing too much belly, and tush or a whole lot of breasts has its limits. If we don't put some kind of control about it EM, what is the next generation going to do? And like Anoushik said, too much of it may alter and diminish our existing culture too.

 

 

[nairi]

what is the next generation going to do?

 

In the 1960s, an entire community pranced about naked. It was called the "sexual revolution."

 

I'll tell you what the next generation will look like. We'll continue to have snobs, hippies, and pornography. None of that is going to change. No one is forcing your children to dress like snobs, hippies, or porn actresses. If they do so, it is because they choose to do so, and not because someone is holding a gun to their head or offering them a million dollars. This is what a pluralistic society looks like. It's marked by difference. If you cannot appreciate or accept difference, then you do not belong in the West (neither do you belong in Armenia, since in Armenia too, there is no such thing as uniformity, as you will find many different subcultures and fashions going around).

 

[Takoush]

In the 1960s, an entire community pranced about naked. It was called the "sexual revolution."

 

I'll tell you what the next generation will look like. We'll continue to have snobs, hippies, and pornography. None of that is going to change. No one is forcing your children to dress like snobs, hippies, or porn actresses. If they do so, it is because they choose to do so, and not because someone is holding a gun to their head or offering them a million dollars. This is what a pluralistic society looks like. It's marked by difference. If you cannot appreciate or accept difference, then you do not belong in the West (neither do you belong in Armenia, since in Armenia too, there is no such thing as uniformity, as you will find many different subcultures and fashions going around).

Yes nairi I'm aware of the hippie generation and of the nudist colonies.

 

I believe you have mentioned before that you don't particularly care about dressing up like the Hollywood snobs. Frankly I agree with you on that; neither do I. I don't spend my husband's money on stupid things like brand names or copying the hollywood stars. Half of the time I don't even know their names or what's in the newest fashion, except when I go to pick myself up a dress or two or pants. Frankly I put together whatever fashionable pretty colors and materials that suits me or make me look good. That's what I go by. I don't think I can be labeled as in the category of a snob (that you told me before) because frankly I am not. Nevertheless I dress more or less in comfortable clothing, more becoming to my figure and my overall looks without going crazy about it. Yes I do dress most of the time more conservatively; without showing inappropriate skin and still trying to look good yet I choose my attire according to the places that I go to. Yes I take into consideration the society that surrounds me. In other words I try to look appropriate to society but I am still happy and comfortable about it.

 

Basically that's how I also bring my child up. She's growing up now and she herself doesn't like to show skin either. She has grown to be like me.