vahan79 Posted June 4, 2007 Report Share Posted June 4, 2007 Hey all, I thought I'd bring this topic up. Basically, I have a friend (Armenian) that just came out to me (and no, it's not me using "friend" to pretending to have a "friend"). Apparently, he has been "out" for a long long time in his circle, but didn't want to tell any of his Armenian friends because he was afraid we'd be judgmental/non-accepting/tell people and it would get back to his parents (he didn't tell them). He does have some gay Armo friends and there is even a group I guess in LA, something like GALAS (not sure what all the letters stand for ) Anyway, let's talk; I'll start off with some questions, but say whatever: (1) Are we, as Armenians, less accepting of gay people among us (i.e., we accept odarner/otarner that are gay, but not "our own")? (2) Why do we care? (3) Do gay Armenians have the same pressure to partner with another Armenian (despite the whole kid thing being a sort non-issue)? (4) How do you personally feel about gays/lesbians/etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariane Posted June 4, 2007 Report Share Posted June 4, 2007 It's difficult to be a gay, in our society, anywhere you're living, armenian or anything else. I don't know why. they are normal persons, some of them good, clever, interesting and others bad, like heteros, where's the problem. Their sexuality doesn't matter to us, some heteros like sado-maso, scato, sex-addict, nympho or "no-sex" is it better? I start to met gays at school, I've always had good laugh and good relations with them, as with heteros, and today my boss is gay, his boyfriend works just near me, they assume, no problem, they are normal persons. living, working, eating like any human. For gay's parents, may be they're sad cause the look of the society, they won't be granparents, and... what ? I have a son, he's 12, the idea passed in my head, but what can I do, my son is my son, I love him over all, no ? same for my daughters. How old is your friend ? I think it's better for him to tell his parents, as soon as possible, it will may be hard, for them, to hear, to accept at the beginning, but your friend will FEEL FREE from his heavy secret, cause when ur parents know, after, the rest of the world you don't worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 4, 2007 Report Share Posted June 4, 2007 I do not agree with homosexuality and think it is a sin , but at the same time I do not think that it has any bearing on one's Armenianness. One can be homosexual and at the same time care just as much about his Armenian identity , etc, as other Armenians . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariane Posted June 4, 2007 Report Share Posted June 4, 2007 do we really have the right to agree or not ? people are what they are, no ? it's wot I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 4, 2007 Report Share Posted June 4, 2007 do we really have the right to agree or not ? people are what they are, no ? it's wot I think Hm , you have a point , but that was not what I meant . I mean , I personally do not agree with this , but do I agree that they have a right to be who they are ? Yes , I have no right to interfere when it comes to that ... anyway , from what i understood , the post since it touches on the idea of Armenian homosexuals , we must discuss Armenians' reaction to this issue . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahan79 Posted June 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2007 How old is your friend ? he is 26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Em Posted June 4, 2007 Report Share Posted June 4, 2007 I know that nowadays it is a cool thing to be gay and for some it has become a rite of passage to "experiment", my post is not regarding those people. I also know that for some, homosexuality is as inherent and pressent at birth as ones Armenianness. To those who claim that people are not born gay..they choose to "be/act" gay, I would like to ask these people to meet wth two kinds of individuals: small kids who are undeniablly born different and show early signs of homosexuality and adults who were born that way and must live with the condition they were born with and cannot change who they really are or how they feel no matter how difficult their daily lives and struggles are. I know that homosexuality is a sin in our religion and goes against everything we believe in, but tolerance and compassion should be employed when relating to this matter. We should respect nature and accept that some people are created differently. If you choose not to befriend gay people, that is your perogative, but for God's sake, they should not be hunted down and killed just because of their sexual orientation. And to answer one of Vahan's questions, may I say that there are a lot of gay men in the Armenian community of Los Angeles. If you are a resident of West Hollywood or have the occasion to dine in this city you will come across many Armenian gay couples. Impeccably dressed, well groomed, very well mannered, succesful and courteous to their fellow human beings. I only ask why more heterosexaul men are not like them? And question #3 reminds me of the joke in which one woman tells another that her son is marrying a man so the other woman asks if at least the other guy is Armenian. Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariane Posted June 4, 2007 Report Share Posted June 4, 2007 If ur friend is 26, he's "very" adult, he's able to assume in front of everyone. He has to, for to really live his life, I wish him "good luck" ! He's not the first or the last, don't worry! I've never met armenian homosexuels, but right in my family they cannot imagine one of us to be homosexual ! whatever, often homosexuals are very courteous, and they could be an example for some men, as says Em! I remember when mother, who's 81, said to my daughter in law brother's (they're italians, not armenians !!!!), the boy is homosexual, and then she told him " you know God doesn't love homosexual, change your mind and find a nice woman !!!! each night I pray for u and ur boy-friend for both of u find a good woman !" she was so persuaded ! The boy knows my mum since always, he wasn't surprised ! it was funny ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted June 4, 2007 Report Share Posted June 4, 2007 has it ever crossed your mind that the person in question is simply trying to get your attention ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariane Posted June 4, 2007 Report Share Posted June 4, 2007 I've done a mistake I wanted to say my sister's in law brother, not my daughter in law, sorry !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariane Posted June 4, 2007 Report Share Posted June 4, 2007 our attention ??? by being homosexual ? I don't think, he's happy, clever, good boy, nice boy he's not like Priscilla !!!! I know the family since a long long time, he's got love around him with parents (who know and accept his sexuality and his boy-friend too), my mum is like his granmother and everyone really love him, there's other way for to ask our attention, we speak and share ideas often, he's not alone and sad, why do u want him to have a problem ? he's like a young man of today and he loves a man. where's the problem ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahan79 Posted June 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Okay, so my friend wants me to go to some gay Armenian club...Club Nur (նուռ???) or something. It's Thursday. I'll keep you posted on my journey into gay Armenian culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 (1) Are we, as Armenians, less accepting of gay people among us (i.e., we accept odarner/otarner that are gay, but not "our own")? Considering what some of the neighboring countires do to gays (ahem Iran for e.g.), I'd say Armenia is not that bad. Of course you can't compare any country in the region to San Francisco or Hollywood. (2) Why do we care? Because sexuality is a big part of being human. The first thing I notice about a person is whether they are male or female... gays tend to screw around with this initial perception and categorization so it's definitely something I care about (of course it depeonds on whether it's a profesional context in which case I don't really care -- or a social context in which case I would care). (3) Do gay Armenians have the same pressure to partner with another Armenian (despite the whole kid thing being a sort non-issue)? Haha ... I have no clue. (4) How do you personally feel about gays/lesbians/etc.? See #2. I don't know if I have a "feeling" in that generic sense (i.e. if you are expecting me to say I love them, hate them, or don't care, you won't get an answer like that from me. However, I do refer to them as "them" obviously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Btw , I wonder why it is that people do not talk about our centuries-old struggle to continue to exist as a nation (no reproduction ==> no continuation of our existence ) , and how being gay is therefore treason ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahan79 Posted June 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 Btw , I wonder why it is that people do not talk about our centuries-old struggle to continue to exist as a nation (no reproduction ==> no continuation of our existence ) , and how being gay is therefore treason ??? Interesting. I will say that there are lots of Armenian children that need to be adopted in Hayastan, but they will not allow gay couples to adopt. Also, preference is given to Armenians, but have to be a married couple and I think Armenian Apostolic. I read this all somewhere a long time ago...may have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 Interesting. I will say that there are lots of Armenian children that need to be adopted in Hayastan, but they will not allow gay couples to adopt. Also, preference is given to Armenians, but have to be a married couple and I think Armenian Apostolic. I read this all somewhere a long time ago...may have changed. Thanks for the reply/clarification. I am not the one making such arguments , I was just presenting the argument that I have been hearing in my other thread about conversion , so I thought I would pose this question , as I am sure the ones who made these accusations of treason are too shy to make the same argument here.. i will try to answer your post based on what their reply/argument to this would be : well yes , there are Armenian children up for adoption , but really , these already exist and these conditions for adoption help maintain their Armenianness anyway, and we need more Armenian kids to be born ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 (2) Why do we care? Because sexuality is a big part of being human. The first thing I notice about a person is whether they are male or female... gays tend to screw around with this initial perception and categorization so it's definitely something I care about (of course it depeonds on whether it's a profesional context in which case I don't really care -- or a social context in which case I would care). I thought the first thing you noticed about people was "the fact that they tend to move very slow in buffets." The eternal threat for heterosexual men: homosocial behavior turning into homosexual encounter. Or do you feel more threatened by lesbians? (I assume that the more male homosexuals there are out there, the less competition there will be for you; which means that lesbians should be more threatening to you than male homosexuals). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 Btw , I wonder why it is that people do not talk about our centuries-old struggle to continue to exist as a nation (no reproduction ==> no continuation of our existence ) , and how being gay is therefore treason ??? Being gay is something you are born as, not something you can convert to. Perhaps the difference lies there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 (4) How do you personally feel about gays/lesbians/etc.? i don't care about gays... but deep me in chocolate and throw me to lesbians... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariane Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 "no reproduction => no continuation of our existence" What is the percentage of gay and lesbians in our society ? I don't think we have to care about, the majority is hetero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 Being gay is something you are born as, not something you can convert to. Perhaps the difference lies there. Really ? Hmm, many argue otherwise... both on the issue of whether or not they are born homosexual, and on the issue of whether or not they can "become" heterosexual . At least for the devout Christians who are apparently too shy to venture into this thread and make the same arguments about treason ... mmm !!! What is the percentage of gay and lesbians in our society ? I don't think we have to care about, the majority is hetero. Same with converts , no ? Yet some people do not see anything wrong with calling converts traitors... So , since I accept their standards on accusing people of treason , I shall now consider homosexuals to be traitors to Armenianness, and to top it all, Dajigs too.. Giving people a taste of their own medicine , i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 Giving people a taste of their own medicine , i guess. I wouldn't have expected any less of a muslim An eye for an eye, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 I wouldn't have expected any less of a muslim An eye for an eye, eh? Absolutely. Isn't that the only language some people understand? Anyway , read my first reply in this thread and you will see what my position is. The rest is my sarcasm / bitterness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahan79 Posted June 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 i don't care about gays... but deep me in chocolate and throw me to lesbians... Yeah, I made the mistake of saying "Oh, cool, gay, cool, uh....I watch the L Word." Leave me alone, it was an awkward moment. He just laughed at me, so it worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 Really ? Hmm, many argue otherwise... both on the issue of whether or not they are born homosexual, and on the issue of whether or not they can "become" heterosexual . At least for the devout Christians who are apparently too shy to venture into this thread and make the same arguments about treason ... mmm !!! Same with converts , no ? Yet some people do not see anything wrong with calling converts traitors... So , since I accept their standards on accusing people of treason , I shall now consider homosexuals to be traitors to Armenianness, and to top it all, Dajigs too.. Giving people a taste of their own medicine , i guess. Sassun, it's not the same with converts. I've debated about gays too before on this thread (ages ago!) and I've come to the conclusion that being gay is not contagious. Seriously, can you imagine turning gay one day? Statistics also show certain number of people that are gays have existed and continue to exist in society. It's always a fixed number. But with converts it's another story. Weak-minded people like yourself represent a larger number of society. Don't believe me? How do you explain then the various cults that pop up every once in a while, and the growing influences of such "religions" as Jehova's Witnesses, the Church of Mormons, Scientology, and the Muslim converts (such as yourself), etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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