Turkey Is On The Verge Of Collapse

[Dave]

Turkey faces military crisis

 

EU warns generals as army threatens to step in if Islamist minister wins presidential election

 

Turkey came under mounting pressure from the European Union last night to rein in the influence of its generals, after the country's powerful pro-secular military threatened to intervene in the Islamic-oriented government amid growing turmoil over the election of a new President.

 

Olli Rehn, the European Union enlargement commissioner, who has been a keen supporter of Ankara's eventual accession to the bloc, warned the military to stay out of politics, saying the election was a 'test case' for the Turkish military's respect for democracy.

 

Rehn issued the salvo after Turkey's general staff weighed in on the dispute, saying they would not flinch at intervention if it meant upholding the Muslim state's cherished secular values.

 

The country's secular elite has voiced grave concerns over the government's choice of Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul as a presidential candidate, given the politician's Islamist beliefs - his wife and daughter wear the headscarf.

 

'The Chief of the General Staff is answerable to the Prime Minister,' declared Cemil Cicek, justice Minister in the government of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who is a former Islamist but has pledged his commitment to Turkey's secular political system. Military intervention would be 'inconceivable in a democratic state,' Cicek said.

 

Within hours of Gul's failure to win enough votes in a first round of balloting on Friday, the military, which has staged four coups in the past 50 years, posted a statement on its website invoking its role as defender of the country's secular traditions as laid out by Turkey's modern soldier-statesman founder, Mustafa Ataturk.

 

'In recent days, the problem during the presidential election has focused on secularism discussions,' the statement said. 'This situation has been anxiously followed by the Turkish armed forces. The Turkish armed forces maintains its firm determination to carry out its clearly specified duties to protect these principles and has absolute loyalty and belief in this determination.'

 

The statement then went on to list the ruling AK party's perceived violations of secularism, including the fact that some headmasters had been allowed to order the celebration of the Prophet Muhammad's birthday.

 

The military made the announcement after the secular opposition appealed to the state's constitutional court to cancel the election.

 

Many fear that if elected, Gul would be in a position to do away with the checks and balances built into system by eroding the secular nature of the courts and other autonomous bodies and appointing Islamic-oriented candidates to powerful civil service positions.

 

Recently, hundreds of thousands demonstrated against the prospect of the Prime Minister running in the election, whose second round takes place this week.

 

According to Professor Ahmet Evin, who teaches political science at Istanbul's Sabanci University: 'People fear that if someone who is suspected of having Islamist leanings takes control of the post, it will allow the AK party to move ahead on its Islamist agenda.'

 

A former firebrand, Erdogan has fiercely denied that he has a hidden agenda, but critics say his actions often speak louder than words.

 

Since assuming office nearly five years ago, he has publicly endorsed the lifting of restrictions on women wearing Islamic-style headscarves in government offices and schools, attempted to outlaw adultery and approved of alcohol bans by AK party-run municipalities.

 

In the first round of the election last week, Gul failed to reach the two-thirds vote he needed to win. A second vote is scheduled for Wednesday, when he will need a simple majority.

 

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story...2067955,00.html

[Էլիա]

Ի՞նչ կը կարծես հայերը կ'ընեն երբ Թուրքիան վերջապէս կ'ինայ, որովհետեւ շատ յստակ է որ Թուրքիան երկար պիտի չ'դիմանայ:

 

What do you think the Armenians will do when Turkey finally falls, because it's very clear that Turkey isn't going to last long.

[Dave]

Ճիշդ ես: Հայերը պիտի ուտեն Թրքական պետութիւնը, որ արդեն Հայու արիւնին վրայ յիմնուած է: Նաեւ, Քիւրտերը, Արաբները, Յոյները, եւայլն:

[AK-47]

The prospect of a Turkish civil war in the next few decades is high. Islamism vs Secularism. Strike on the head of the snake while it's weak and you kill the body.

[Armenak]

Wishful thinking.

[AK-47]

Wishful thinking.

Only in the present. We can add the Kurds to the mix of a future civil war as well.

[Էլիա]

Ճիշդ ես: Հայերը պիտի ուտեն Թրքական պետութիւնը, որ արդեն Հայու արիւնին վրայ յիմնուած է: Նաեւ, Քիւրտերը, Արաբները, Յոյները, եւայլն:

Հա, միայն ժամանակի խնդիր է: Կը նայինք ինչ քան ժամանակ կը տեւէ մինչեւ որ թուրքերը իրենց պատիժը կ'ունենան:

 

[Takoush]

Ճիշդ ես: Հայերը պիտի ուտեն Թրքական պետութիւնը, որ արդեն Հայու արիւնին վրայ յիմնուած է: Նաեւ, Քիւրտերը, Արաբները, Յոյները, եւայլն:

Ճիշդ է: Այժմեան Թուրքիան արդէն կը պատկանէր հիւսիսային արեւմուտքի մասը բոլորովին Հունաստան էր. Իսկ Հիւսիսային արեւելքը եւ մինչեւ Տիգրանակերտ եւայլն մեզ կը պատկանէր: Իսկ աւելի հարաւային մասը, Մեսոբոդամիայի մասը քիւրտերը եւ Արաբները կրնան ունենալ:

[Dave]

Պէտք է անդրադառնան որ իրենց պապենական հողը չէ՛ Մերձաւոր Արեւելքը (i.e. Asia Minor).

[Takoush]

You're quite right Dave and you too AK-47.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2007 by Anahid Takouhi

[Էլիա]

Պէտք է անդրադառնան որ իրենց պապենական հողը չէ՛ Մերձաւոր Արեւելքը (i.e. Asia Minor).

Այդ քան անմիտ են, որ չեն հասկնար որ իրենք կենդանիներու պէս Արեւմտեան Ասիաին վրայ յարձակեցան, Կեդրոնական Ասիաէն գաղթելով:

[Dave]

Զանազան սուտեր կը ստեղծեն (Hittites are Turks, Scythians are Turks, etc.), բայց միայն ինքզինքնին կը խաբեն այդ կերպով:

 

Բոլորս ալ գիտենք Թուրքը ինչ է:

Edited April 30, 2007 by Dave

[hyethga]

Ճիշդ ես: Հայերը պիտի ուտեն Թրքական պետութիւնը, որ արդեն Հայու արիւնին վրայ յիմնուած է: Նաեւ, Քիւրտերը, Արաբները, Յոյները, եւայլն:

 

It's the "sick man" all over again. The hungry relatives all want a piece of the inheritance

[Էլիա]

It's the "sick man" all over again. The hungry relatives all want a piece of the inheritance

What "sick man"?

[AK-47]

What "sick man"?

The sick man of Europe! The old saying that dates back from the Ottoman Empire when much of the world called the Ottoman Empire or Sultan Abdul Hamid II the "Sick man of Europe".

[Էլիա]

The sick man of Europe! The old saying that dates back from the Ottoman Empire when much of the world called the Ottoman Empire or Sultan Abdul Hamid II the "Sick man of Europe".

Oh, I've always heard Sultan Abdul Hamid II as the "Bloody Sultan" who was known for his bloody fingers... but not "sick man".

[vava]

Oh, I've always heard Sultan Abdul Hamid II as the "Bloody Sultan" who was known for his bloody fingers... but not "sick man".

 

I always thought that "sick man" referred more to Abdul Hamid's administration than to the sultan himself. Bloody sultan was all him though....

 

[AK-47]

I always thought that "sick man" referred more to Abdul Hamid's administration than to the sultan himself. Bloody sultan was all him though....

Yep, it was a title for the Ottoman Empire in its crumbling last decades.

[Arpa]

I always thought that "sick man" referred more to Abdul Hamid's administration than to the sultan himself. Bloody sultan was all him though....

Actually it happened way before Hamid.

I was surprised too. I always thought the phrase was coined by some western European.

Look here;

Main article: Decline of the Ottoman Empire

The phrase "sick man of Europe" is commonly attributed to Tsar Nicholas I of Russia, referring to the Ottoman Empire, because it was increasingly falling under the financial control of the European powers and had lost territory in a series of disastrous wars. However, it is not clear that he ever said the precise phrase. Letters from Sir G.H. Seymour, the British ambassador to St. Petersburg, to Lord John Russell, in 1853, in the run up to the Crimean War, quote Nicholas I of Russia as saying that the Ottoman Empire was a a sick man—a very sick man", a "man" who "has fallen into a state of decrepitude", or a "sick man ... gravely ill".

Edited May 1, 2007 by Arpa

[Էլիա]

Actually it happened way before Hamid.

I was surprised too. I always thought the phrase was coined by some western European.

Look here;

Main article: Decline of the Ottoman Empire

The phrase "sick man of Europe" is commonly attributed to Tsar Nicholas I of Russia, referring to the Ottoman Empire, because it was increasingly falling under the financial control of the European powers and had lost territory in a series of disastrous wars. However, it is not clear that he ever said the precise phrase. Letters from Sir G.H. Seymour, the British ambassador to St. Petersburg, to Lord John Russell, in 1853, in the run up to the Crimean War, quote Nicholas I of Russia as saying that the Ottoman Empire was a a sick man—a very sick man", a "man" who "has fallen into a state of decrepitude", or a "sick man ... gravely ill".

Well, the proof seems a little too vague...