Western Armenian Population Today?

[phantom22]

Arpa,

 

You have it backwards. There is probably very little Armenian blood among the Chinese. The only closely related documentation is that the Nestorian Christians who settled in China later assimilated into the Chinese genepool.

 

The only documentation of anyone close to Armenian becoming Jews is when the nobles of the Kingdom of Adiabene converted to Judaism. A large part of Anatolian Turks are full or part converted Armenians. No Arpa, the MARTIANS as well as the other peoples whom you listed are not Armenian either despite the IAN at the end of their name.

 

Of all the other peoples on earth, the nation other than Armenia or Turks with the most Armenian blood is the Poles, who assimilated many Armenians.

 

Keep laughing Arpa, but it is documented that the Mamikonians brought a large group of loyalists with the when they arrived in Taron. If they were Chinese as stated by the ancient historians (a number of them) then we have Cinese blood in us. Any Armenian scholar knows that Tigran Metz brought thousands of Jews to Tigranakert and Van City. One of them, Smbat, was a progenitor of the Bagratuni royal house.

 

 

You guys have it all wrong.

Armenians amount to at least 2 billion. Ask Hagarag. 1.2 billion Chinese (Mamikoneans), 20 million Jews (Bagratunis), 100 million of his Ottoman ancestors… Not to forget all those other Armenians like Syr-ians, Jordan-ians, Egypt-ians, Alger-ians, Niger-ian, Ethiop-ians, Iran-ians, Russ-ians, Alban-ians, Austr-ians, Hungar-ians, Ital-ians, Bulgar-ians, Roman-ians, Norweg-ians, Skandinav-ians… How about Ind-ians, Indones-ians, Austral-ians? Oh, oh, I forgotr the Zimbabwe-ians!

How many others nations are known as ******* ian?

Canad-ian? Shoshone-ian? Colomb-ian, Argentin-ian?

 

[phantom22]

Mosjan,

 

You are an Eastern Armenian UNLESS your parents came from Western Armenia. Your children are Amerika-Hyes, not Eastern or Western.

 

 

ok i have an question

 

i was born in Armenia - i'm in USA now

i'm I a western Armenian or eastern Armenian ???

 

[Dave]

There used to be as many as 350,000 Armenians in Lebanon before the civil war; this doesn't include those who went to Soviet Armenia in the 40s during the "Nerkaght", an event that took place a long time ago and probably isn't taken into consideration in population figures. All those Armenians who left the Middle East went somewhere. If they left the region, it doesn't mean that they forgot their Armenian-ness.

[AK-47]

What percentage of Armenians living in the ROA are the grandchildren, or great-grandchildren of Western Armenians?

 

not sure about that but alot of Armenians in Armenia moved there from Van after they were evacuated by the armenian volunteer units + russian forces during and after the Armenian Genocide.

 

[gamavor]

Armenians amount to at least 2 billion. Ask Hagarag. 1.2 billion Chinese (Mamikoneans), 20 million Jews (Bagratunis), 100 million of his Ottoman ancestors… Not to forget all those other Armenians like Syr-ians, Jordan-ians, Egypt-ians, Alger-ians, Niger-ian, Ethiop-ians, Iran-ians, Russ-ians, Alban-ians, Austr-ians, Hungar-ians, Ital-ians, Bulgar-ians, Roman-ians, Norweg-ians, Skandinav-ians… How about Ind-ians, Indones-ians, Austral-ians? Oh, oh, I forgotr the Zimbabwe-ians!

 

How many others nations are known as ******* ian?

Canad-ian? Shoshone-ian? Colomb-ian, Argentin-ian?

 

Millionerov BRAK enk dvel!

 

Courtesy to Mosjan!

 

[MadArmo]

What about the jerusalem Armenians?

 

They were Armenians before the Genocide in the Armenian quarter since the time of crusades? If I were to guess western right ? My fathers side dates back several centuries back... He left to Jordan then to Lebanon and finally to US. One thing about Armenians we always seek prosperity and can't seem to settle down anywhere, I guess sooner or later there is going to be a gathering

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vanahye7]

What about the jerusalem Armenians?

 

They were Armenians before the Genocide in the Armenian quarter since the time of crusades? If I were to guess western right ? My fathers side dates back several centuries back... He left to Jordan then to Lebanon and finally to US. One thing about Armenians we always seek prosperity and can't seem to settle down anywhere, I guess sooner or later there is going to be a gathering

 

How realistic do you think that one day we are all going to gather back to our homeland??? It really saddens me that were all dispersed across the globe shad shad tsavely ehh.

[SanVal]

It would be hard to separate Armenians into these two categories: western and eastern. Most of us have mixed ancestry by now.

[Dave]

It might be hard today, but prior to 1915, Armenians were different from town to town even.

[SHENGAVIT]

all I know is that there are more than 9. 000.000 Armenians throughout the world, including mix Armenians. If you subtract the 2,5 milion from Armena, 1 milion from Russia, 1 million (and more) from USA, then you do the math.

[AK-47]

a simple way you can differentiate Eastern Armenians from Western is the dialect they speak. I fouy speak eastern, you're eastern, same for west. But let's all forget this talk and unite

[SHENGAVIT]

(with eastern Armenian accent) pa vontz yeghpayrs, bidi hameraxsh linenq, mer hayastane shenatzutzenq, mer chojuxnerun patmenq zanazan batmvatzqner....that's really funny the way eastern Armenians talk.

[MadArmo]

How realistic do you think that one day we are all going to gather back to our homeland??? It really saddens me that were all dispersed across the globe shad shad tsavely ehh.

 

 

It's very possible to repatriate and follow the Jewish example, they had great success don't you agree? We were dispersed across against our will, Forced to migrate !

 

 

 

 

[Zartonk]

No Arpa, the MARTIANS as well as the other peoples whom you listed are not Armenian either despite the IAN at the end of their name.

 

I beg your pardon...??

[Shahan Araradian]

ok i have an question

 

i was born in Armenia - i'm in USA now

i'm I a western Armenian or eastern Armenian ???

The Eastern vs. Western distinction has to do with the dialect of Armenian you speak (natively); of course, there are cultural differences, too, but that depends more on nationality (where you grew up or have adapted to) than on dialect. If you speak Eastern Armenian, you're Eastern Armenian regardless of where you live on Earth. Same goes with Western Armenian.

 

The Western Armenian dialect and culture is an endangered species...

Edited February 18, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Arpa]

Caution; This post ended up much much longer than intended. Read it at your own risk.

 

The Eastern vs. Western distinction has to do with the dialect of Armenian you speak (natively); of course, there are cultural differences, too, but that depends more on nationality (where you grew up or have adapted to) than on dialect. If you speak Eastern Armenian, you're Eastern Armenian regardless of where you live on Earth. Same goes with Western Armenian.

 

The Western Armenian dialect and culture is an endangered species...

What do you base this prognosis on?

Here is a news item;

=======

Institute for War and Peace Reporting, UK

Feb 16 2007

 

Armenia Fears Population Crisis

 

Government sees drop in population as a threat to national security.

 

By Naira Melkumian in Yerevan (CRS No. 379 16-Feb-07)

 

In a bid to curb a steep demographic decline, the Armenian government

has produced a strategy to boost the population - but many have

criticised the move as cosmetic.

 

`You can observe a negative trend in the reduction in the number of

people of reproductive age, which, alongside the overall ageing of

the nation, may lead us into serious problems in the labour market

and for our plans to secure steady economic growth,' the deputy

minister of labour and social affairs, Artsvik Minasian, one of the

architects of the new strategy, told IWPR.

 

The past ten years have seen the country's official population

dwindle by 500,000 people. According to government statistics,

Armenia currently has around 3.2 million inhabitants.

 

However, most experts say these figures are exaggerated. The US

government's CIA Factbook lists the population as being 2,976,372 in

2006, while some say it is even lower than that.

 

The United Nations Population Fund predicts that if current trends

continue, the population will shrink to 2.33 million by 2050, while

that of Azerbaijan - with which Armenia remains in a state of frozen

conflict over the disputed territory of Nagorny Karabakh - will

exceed 11 million.

 

`With the Karabakh conflict still unresolved and the real prospect of

renewed fighting with Azerbaijan, the demographic crisis could become

a serious threat to security,' said Aram Sarkisian, member of

parliament and leader of the opposition Democratic Party.

 

The main reasons for the decline are a haemorrhage of people through

emigration, plummeting birth rates, an ageing nation, high mortality

and increased incidence of disease among people of reproductive age.

All of which are linked.

 

Ruben Yeganian, a researcher at Yerevan State University, estimated

emigration numbers at 800,000 since independence, or close to a

quarter of the population.

 

`The lower birth rates are partly due to the emigration-caused

imbalance of the ratio of sexes at reproductive age,' said Suzanna

Barseghian, demography expert at the Armenian Centre for National and

Strategic Research.

 

One result of this is that in the 20-24 age group, there are more

women than men, meaning that many women who would otherwise bear

children, do not.

 

Work done by researchers at Yerevan State University says that a low

birth rate, far more than increased mortality, is the main factor

inhibiting a natural growth in the population. Armenian parents tend

to have only one or two children.

 

On average, 36,000 babies are now born in Armenia every year - less

than half of the number of several years ago. In order to encourage

fertility, the government has decided to provide a one-off allowance

of 200,000 drams (around 500 dollars) to mothers giving birth to a

third child. Only socially vulnerable families will qualify for the

grant. The labour ministry says some 3,000 families will receive the

money.

 

Deputy Minister Artsvik Minasian told IWPR that the government

planned to increase the maternity allowance for all women giving

birth in future, but for the time being state resources were limited.

 

 

Armenian mothers currently receive a one-off allowance of 35,000

drams (100 dollars), while needy families get 70,000 (200 dollars)

per child.

 

As part of the new demographic strategy, the government also says it

aims to provide free medical examinations for women, especially those

in rural areas, to launch employment programmes as an incentive to

bring male migrants back to the country and even to introduce a

course of lectures on demography in universities.

 

Minasian says he believes the new demographic strategy will help

improve the situation in Armenia by 2009.

 

However, the plan already has many critics, amongst them Stepan

Safarian, a senior expert at the Armenian Centre for National and

Strategic Research, who called the proposals `cosmetic'.

 

`What are these 200,000 drams gong to give?' he asked. `It's just

one-off help and it won't change the difficult social conditions, in

which a majority of the population lives.'

 

Aram Sarkisian said the `the government's steps looked like more like

a pre-election stunt than a serious concept'.

 

`We need fundamental changes, we need a special state fund to support

young families,' he said. `But I don't think that our government of

ultra-liberals is capable of making this kind of move, which need to

be made by Social Democrats.'

 

Yerevan resident Anna Harutyunian, 30, said she was not encouraged by

the new government plans. `Look, Russia provides mothers with a

benefit for a second child, here we are offered help only for a third

child and even this is not for all families, but only for the most

needy,' she said. `I have one child and will think twice before I

decide to give birth to another. You've got to put them on their

feet, give them am education.'

 

Naira Melkumian is a freelance journalist based in Yerevan.

=============

 

Even the above that is supposed to be a scientific study is filled with guesses and “we said they said”.

Is this how other forums are conducted too? This is a straight question, not rhetorical. I don’t know the answer I don’t visit other forums.

Why can’t we get a straight, scientifically researched answer? As one can see above the original question was straight forward. It asks if we know the population size in the diaspora. Read on and show me one direct response to the question. Do I know the answer? Of course not. How does one count? Do we advertise in the written media, the electronic media, associations and churches? How many will hear about it? How many are dues paying members of associations and churches? It is a dejavu. Demographics in the Ottoman empire based on church records and there were as many variations as there were estimates. Look at the figures quoted above and tell us which are correct.

Coming back to last response above that prophesies that Western Armenian will be a thing of th epast, and "endangered species". And then look at the news item again, and tell us which population is growing and which getting smaller.

Why can’t we get a scientifically conducted census? Why do all debates of the kind always turn into an emotional confrontation? Consider the debate about the so called dialects and orthography, standard vs Soviet etc. It is full of confrontation, emotion, warlike attitude and wishful thinking. As to wishful thinking, let us once again look at the news item above and see where all those leaving are going. Are they going to France, Australia, Canada South America and the US. Which of those communities speak Eastern Armenian as a rule, which of them speak Armenian period? Which of those communities use the Soviet orthography in their publications (except maybe the so called internal diaspora)? Let us also add that all those emigrants arenot sttling anywhereclose to Yerevan like Syria, Lebanon etc. except may for those who are moving out to the so called internal, near diaspora.

 

So.

What are we basing our conclusion that western Armenian is a thing of the past? Is it when they all immigrate to the Homeland? Not a bad idea as that is the only way to replenish the population that is shrinking by leaps and bounds even as we speak.

Many here and in general in the diaspora were not only born there, many are second, third, fourth even fifth generation diasporans. Even if some may toy with idea of repatriation, yet when they see the net results, when they see that natives of Yerevan are abandoning ship, when they consider the cultural and linguistic factors, when they consider that they may be ridiculed for speaking that “funny Armenian” (those who can even speak it), and writing in that “funny standard orthography”.

Let us see when will the diaspora shrink and the Homeland grow to the point of overwhelming it.

 

Here I go again.

I began this post complaining as to why every debate turns into a confrontation and see what I just did.

Edited February 18, 2007 by Arpa

[Arpa]

Hagarag wrote;

Arpa

You have it backwards. There is probably very little Armenian blood among the Chinese. The only closely related documentation is that the Nestorian Christians who settled in China later assimilated into the Chinese genepool.

 

The only documentation of anyone close to Armenian becoming Jews is when the nobles of the Kingdom of Adiabene converted to Judaism. A large part of Anatolian Turks are full or part converted Armenians. No Arpa, the MARTIANS as well as the other peoples whom you listed are not Armenian either despite the IAN at the end of their name.

I beg your pardon...??

Am I the only one here or any one else see that this Hagarag-Magarag has no sense of humor, never mind that. That he has no sense at all.?

Did I or did I not list everyone from Alban-ian to Zimbabwe-ian and I filled that entire post with smileys?

WOW! I thought I had seen enough thick skulls.... maybe not.

[AK-47]

Hagarag wrote;

Am I the only one here or any one else see that this Hagarag-Magarag has no sense of humor, never mind that. That he has no sense at all.?

Did I or did I not list everyone from Alban-ian to Zimbabwe-ian and I filled that entire post with smileys?

WOW! I thought I had seen enough thick skulls.... maybe not.

 

LMAO

 

[neko]

Caution; This post ended up much much longer than intended. Read it at your own risk.

 

Long yes, but not TL:DR.

 

[Lev7]

Only Russia, has around 2 million and those figures are correct, have you been to Moscow, you can't swear in Armenian anymore lol

[SanVal]

Only Russia, has around 2 million and those figures are correct, have you been to Moscow, you can't swear in Armenian anymore lol

 

 

Which is why I don't understand why AGBU (or other international organizations) still doesn't have a strong presence there. A few years ago they even had it in Ethiopia, where all Armenians have either left or assimilated.

[Armenak]

Which is why I don't understand why AGBU (or other international organizations) still doesn't have a strong presence there. A few years ago they even had it in Ethiopia, where all Armenians have either left or assimilated.

AGBU's presence in former Soviet republics is poor, with the exception of Armenia.

 

I thought Ukraine (Odessa) had a large Armenian population as well.

[Shahan Araradian]

Արփա՝

 

Նախ եւ առաչ ես արեւմտահայ եմ: Հայերէն կը գրեմ քանի որ արդէն հայերէն չի կարդացողին տարբերութիւն պիտի չի ընէ գրածս:

 

Հայաստանի բնակչութիւնը երկու միլիոն հազիւ կայ, հաւանաբար աւելի պակաս, շուրչ մէկ ու կէս միլիոն: Պատճառը գիտեմ ինչու Հայաստանը աւելի կ'ըսէ բայց հոս պիտի չի գրեմ այդ պատասխանը:

 

Արեւմտահայերէն լեզուն եւ արեւմտահայ մշակոյթը վտանգի տակ է զանազան պատճառներու համար, բայց բոլորը մէկ պատճառի կու գայ՝ տկարութիւնը հայկական փիլիսոբայութեան, պակասութիւնը հաստատ Ծրագիրի մը: Հոս է որ պէտքը ունինք վերադառնալու մեր դարերու փորձարութեան որոնք ժարանգած ենք մեր նախնիքներէն որոնք մեզի կը փոխանցեն իրենց փորձարութիւնը իրենց գրութեամբ: Յատկապէս խօսքս Նճդէհի, Աղբալեանի, Նաթալիի, եւ Մելքոնեանի փիլիսոբայութեան մասին է: Նաեւ՝ քեշ չ'ըլլար եթէ ունենանք հերատէս ղեկաւարներու Հայաստանի (եւ սփիւրքի մէջ) որոնք կրնան Հայաստանը եւ սփիւրքը բոլորովին զարգացնել (եւ միայն երկու հոգի կ'ուզէ. Հնդկաստանը բոլորովին փոխուեցաւ քսաներրորդ դարուն երկու հոգիի կողմէ - Կանտին ու Նէհրուն): Այս մէկը եկեղեցիին անկարելի է գայ, քանի որ անոնք կապ չ'ունին տնտեսական եւ համաշխարհային իրականութենէն: Ոչ ալ պիտի գայ հետամնաց ու irrelevant հայկական կուսակցութիւններէն (օրինակ՝ ՀՅԴ): Ղեկաւարները պէտք է քան Սփիւրքէն. Համաշխարհային փեմին մէջ յաչողած հայերէ (business leaders) որոնք կը հասկնան աշխարհի տնտետասական իրականութիւնը եւ այլն:

 

Կրնայ մէկը նաեւ ըսել թէ «քեշ բախդի» կամ ճակատագրի պատճառավ էր, բայց վերչի վերչոյ մենք բոլորնիս պատասխանատու ենք:

1. Ձեղասպանութիւնը որ տեղահան ըրաւ արեւմտահայ ժողովուրդը

2. 1970-1990: Լիբանանի քաղաքային պատերազմը՝ որ քանդեց արեւմտահայ մշակոյթի կեդրանը, որ դեռ նոր ինքզինքը գտած եր, անգամ մը եւս ձրուելով արեւմտահայ ժողովուրդը այս անգամ աշխարհի չորս կողմը:

3. 1990+: Լիբանանի արեւմտահայ ժողովուրդը կորսնցուց իր «critical mass»ը: Ամերիկայի հայ գաղութները ամէնէն արագ կը ձուլուին: Հիւսիսային Ամերիկայմիայն Մոնռէյալի մէջ է որ կրնաս գտնալ տեղացի երկու հայ երիտասրդներ որոնք իրարու հետ հայերէն կը խօսին: (Թորոնթօն յաչորդն է Գնայ Լոս Անճելըս, Սան Ֆրանսիսքօ, Նիւ Եօրք, եւ այլն եւ նոյն երեւոյթը չես տեսնար...

 

Միչին Արեւելքէն դուրս՝ ներկայ փիլիսոբայութեանբ հայութիւնը չի կրնար դիմանալ, քանի որ իր փիլիսոբայութիւնը «evolve» եղած է ուրիշ մթնոլորտի մը մէջ: Այդ մթնոլորտը տաճիկներո («իսլամներու») միչեւ ապրիլ է: Այդ փիլիսոբայութիւնը (քրիստոնէութիւնը) կը քալէ ա՛յդ մթնոլորտին մէջ: Բայց երբ որ մթնոլորտդ փոխես, բայց փիլիսոբայութիւնդ չի փոխես, այդ պարագային հաւանական է որ չէս կրնար դիմանալ նոր մթնոլորտիդ մէջ:

 

Ի՞նչ է լուծումը ուրեմն: Դիմանալու համար (արեւմուտքին մէջ ուր հայութեան 80 տոկոսը կ'ապրի) միայն մէկ լուծում կայ՝ «evolve» ընել փիլիսոբայութիւնը: Քրիստոնէութիւնը բաւարար «differentiating factor» մը չէ քու ինքնութիւնդ պահելու համար արեւմուտքի մէջ, ուր արդէն իսկ շրչապատուած ես Քրիստոնեաներով: Ես կ'արաչարկեմ նոր փիլիսոբայութիւն մը (based perhaps upon New Age thinking) որ «grassroots» աստիճանի մը հայկական գաղութները կը զօրացնէ: Փիլիսոբայութիւնը պէտք է «adapt» ըլլայ թէ ոչ արեւմտահայ մշակոյթը (ոչ ալ արեւելահյը) կրնայ հայրենիքէն դուրս դիմանալ:

 

Կարելի՞ է դիմանալ որպէս ազգ առանց հայերնիքի: Ոմանք (օրինակ՝ Մոնթէ Մելքոնեանը) կ'ըսեն անկարելի է: Բայց մէկ ազգ մը գիտեմ որ երկու հազար տարի դիմացած են առանց հայրենիքի՝ հրեայ ժողովուրդը: Ամերիկեան առածը կ'ըսէ «there's no substitute for experience»: Ինչպէ՞ս կ'ըլլայ եթէ այդ «technology»ին մասերը որդեգրենք, մեզի դարցնենք: Համաձայն եմ որ հայրենիք ունենալը շատ կարեւոր բան է, որովհետեւ միայն հայրենիքին մէջ է որ մշակոյթ մը կրնայ «organically» աճիլ: Բայց այս օրերուն (համաշխարհայինութեան)՝ հզօր եւ մնայուն սփիւրք մը կարեւոր դէր մը կրնայ խաղալ հայրենիքին տնտետական (economic) ու նաեւ մշակութային զարգացման:

 

Շահան

Edited February 19, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Dave]

Իմ կարծիքովս ՀՅԴն երկար ժամանակէ ի վեր հիմքերը դրած է այսպիսզի շարժումի մը: Պարզապէս պակասութիւն մը կայ անձերու, որոնք կամքը ունին մասնակից դառնալու: Նաեւ, բոլոր հայութիւնը չէ որ կը վստահի ՀՅԴին:

 

Որքա՛ն վստահ կրնանք ըլլալ, որ այս փիլիսոփայութիւնը նոր բաժանումներ պիտի չստեղծէ հայութեան մէջ:

[hosank]

i must say that this is all pointless..

 

who cares what the proportion of western or eastern armenians there are.

 

i mean, there are many eastern armenians (russian hayasdantsi and iranian) in the west, what are they?

 

who cares? they are all 'hye'

and there are at lest 90 thousand armenians in canada, and propably more who have armenian blood in them