Stanford Shaw Dies

[Armenak]

Zaman, Turkey

Dec 16 2006

 

American Historian, Known for his Work on Ottomans, Dies

By Anadolu News Agency (AA), Ankara

Saturday, December 16, 2006

zaman.com

 

 

Known for his works on the field of Ottoman history, Prof. Stanford

Shaw died yesterday.

 

A statement made by the Turkish Academy of Science said that Shaw,

who was made an honorary member of the academy on Dec. 16, 2005, and

who was granted the `Medal and Certificate of Service' in September

along with Prof. Halil Inalcik due to his contributions to Turkish

history passed away at the age of 76.

 

Shaw, the first historian to benefit from the Ottoman archives,

demonstrated that the Ottoman state granted the Jews who had been

oppressed in both Western and Eastern Europe the right to take refuge

in the Ottoman lands.

 

As a result, the Jews, who escaped the tyranny in Europe, helped the

Ottoman economy to develop and made contributions to the diplomatic

and cultural life of the Ottoman Empire.

 

In his 2000-page work on the Turkish War of Independence, Shaw talked

about how the Turks were able to get rid of the European exploitation

and economic hegemony partly due to Ataturk's charismatic leadership

and partly because of the weakness of the Allies.

 

Shaw also underlines in the work that the Ottoman administrative

reforms of 1839 fell short of reaching success because it almost

completely imitated the Western institutions and when the reforms

were adapted to the Ottoman realities of the day, the modernization

efforts turned out to have long-lasting effects.

 

Professor Shaw, whose house was bombed in 1977 when he was working

for the University of California, had also proved the Armenian claims

of an alleged genocide wrong by presenting various documents from the

period.

[Hellektor]

http://www.fell2earth.com/puzzles/cheers.jpg


May he rot in hell!
Kakem gorin.

[Lev7]

fu$# that imbecile

 

one down, a few to go

 

what we have Mcfarthy and Lewis left?

[phantom22]

The Turkish press used an old picture of him in their obituaries. The picture was from at at least 20 years ago. In it he looked like an American academician from Princeton. Yet in his UCLA bio, of recent vintage he looks just like a Turk. He Turkified himself after he moved to Turkey. They must be using the same PR firm that Bush is using.

[Verginne]

Stanford Shaw was a jew.

 

Rot in hell, jew scum.

[phantom22]

Verginne is a turk.

 

Rot in hell, turk scum.

 

 

Stanford Shaw was a jew.

 

Rot in hell, jew scum.

[neko]

The Turkish press used an old picture of him in their obituaries. The picture was from at at least 20 years ago. In it he looked like an American academician from Princeton. Yet in his UCLA bio, of recent vintage he looks just like a Turk. He Turkified himself after he moved to Turkey.

Dogs tend to look like their masters.

[Lev7]

Stanford Shaw was a jew.

 

Rot in hell, jew scum.

 

whats up with racism on this forum? We, Armenians complain about Genocide denial and racism towards us, but we do the same thing!

[Verginne]

whats up with racism on this forum? We, Armenians complain about Genocide denial and racism towards us, but we do the same thing!

 

 

Racism?????? Pure BS. Just stating facts. Ninety-nine percent of the AG deniers who aren't turks are jews. Nothing "racist" about stating FACTS.

 

Also, in truth, there was nothing "racist" about the Armenian Genocide either. It had to do with geopolitical ambititions in regard to world resources, eliminating the competition and zionist land grabbing.

[Verginne]

Verginne is a turk.

 

Rot in hell, turk scum.

 

 

Go join your coreligionist in shoveling coal. Give him a kiss too. I know you want to.

[neko]

Armenian Reporter - 12/23/2006

 

Stanford Jay Shaw, 1930-2006: An academic who denied the Armenian Genocide

 

by Aram Arkun (special to the "Armenian Reporter")

 

NEW YORK--At first sight, Stanford Jay Shaw appeared to be an

ordinary, innocuous, friendly, and garrulous grandfather. At UCLA, he

typically wore sneakers, and dressed informally.

 

He was, however, no ordinary man.

 

A prominent Ottoman historian, Shaw was perhaps the most prominent of

a scholarly school of American deniers of the Armenian Genocide. In

his best known work, a two-volume survey titled "History of the

Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey" (Cambridge University Press,

1976-77), Shaw and his co-author (and wife) Ezel Kural Shaw attempted

to present the Ottomans and Turks in the most positive light possible,

at times from an anachronistic Turkish nationalist perspective. In the

process, alongside many other consequential errors, they minimized the

size and significance of the Hamidian and Cilician massacres, while

placing much of the responsibility for these events on Armenians.

 

They went on to argue that the Armenians revolted and consequently

suffered losses during World War I, contrary to the wishes of their

Young Turk rulers who worked to safeguard them during deportations

from war zones. Two hundred thousand Armenians were killed due to

famine, disease, and inadvertent violence during the turmoil of the

war, which, they emphasized, killed some 10 times as many Muslims.

 

This denial of the Armenian Genocide, similar to what many Turkish

government officials were contemporaneously stating, aroused Armenian

ire. In addition to a deplorable firebombing of Stanford Shaw's house

by unknown assailants, damage to Shaw's office, and threats made to

Shaw and the publishers of the book, many legitimate Armenian

demonstrations and protests took place at UCLA. As a consequence, Dr.

Shaw was able to present himself as a persecuted victim of Armenian

infringements on freedom of speech, and the academics who were going

to participate in a major public critique of his book changed their

minds for fear of the charged political atmosphere. Nonetheless, both

volumes were criticized by scholars in print for many flaws of

chronology, factuality, and bias on topics that went far beyond

Armenian matters, and even for issues of plagiarism.

 

Dr. Shaw produced a number of students who themselves became

university professors and published authors on topics of Ottoman

history. Some of them, such as Heath Lowry or Justin McCarthy, also

became prominent deniers of the Armenian Genocide. Many graduate

students in modern Armenian history at UCLA, incidentally, took

Ottoman history and language courses with Shaw.

 

Born in Minnesota on May 5, 1930 to Jewish immigrants from England and

Russia, Shaw is said to have changed his name to its present version

early in his career, primarily due to anti-Semitism, and, apparently,

in honor of Stanford University, where he did his undergraduate work

and received a master's degree in British history. He completed the

work for another master's degree, this time in Turkish and Islamic

history, from Princeton University in 1955, and went on to study with

Bernard Lewis at the University of London, and Hamilton Gibb at

Oxford. He also studied in Egypt and Istanbul, preparing for his

Princeton doctoral dissertation titled "The Financial and

Administrative Organization and Development of Ottoman Egypt,

1517-1798" (published in 1962 by Princeton University Press). Along

the way, he learned to read Ottoman Turkish and Arabic.

 

Shaw went to Harvard University, where he became an assistant and then

associate professor of Turkish language and history in the Department

of Near Eastern Languages and the Department of History from 1958 to

1968. Here, in addition to his dissertation mentioned above, he

published four more works on Ottoman Egypt, thus securing his position

as a specialist on this topic: "Between Old and New: The Ottoman

Empire under Sultan Selim III" (1971), and the edited translations

"Ottoman Egypt in the Eighteenth Century" (1962) and "Ottoman Egypt in

the Age of the French Revolution" (1964), all with Harvard University

Press; and "The Budget of Ottoman Egypt 1005-1006/1596-1597" (1968)

with Mouton (The Hague). He also co-edited a work of Sir Hamilton

Gibb's, "Studies on the Civilization of Islam" (1962).

 

Shaw became friends at Harvard with two other young professors, Avedis

Sanjian, a specialist in Armenian literature, and Speros Vryonis, Jr.,

a specialist in Byzantine, Seljuk, and early Ottoman histories. Often,

Shaw would come to dinner at Sanjian's house and play with his young

son Gregory. When Shaw fell sick, a Turkish graduate student nursed

him back to health, and he soon married that student, who became Ezel

Kural Shaw. Gradually, his positions on Armenians and Greeks in the

Ottoman Empire began to change in a negative fashion.

 

Shaw moved to Los Angeles, where he became professor of Turkish

history at the University of California from 1968 to 1992. Sanjian and

Vryonis moved to the same university, where Richard Hovannisian became

professor of Armenian history. It was at UCLA that his conflict with

the Armenian community at large, as well as with many of his faculty

friends at UCLA, became intense after the publication of his

above-mentioned second volume on Ottoman history. In the 1980s, Shaw

also lobbied the state of California's Department of Education, and

state legislators, against accepting the Armenian Genocide as a

planned attempt at annihilation, and was a signatory of various

petitions and paid political advertisements denying the Genocide.

 

Meanwhile, UCLA Armenians continued to protest against Shaw's position

on the Armenian Genocide. Shaw's presence at UCLA raised questions

about the limits of academic freedom. Towards the end of his stay at

UCLA, in 1988, Shaw claimed that the Armenians were persecuting him

because of their anti-Semitism, not because of his published writings

on Ottoman-Armenian relations--but this was refuted by statements from

the UCLA Jewish Student Union, the rabbi who was then director of

Hillel, and emeritus sociology professor Leo Kuper, a specialist in

the field of genocide studies. In two books Shaw published several

years later tendentiously praising Ottoman tolerance towards Jews, he

portrayed the Armenians and Greeks in the Ottoman Empire and Turkey as

anti-Semites ("The Jews of the Ottoman Empire and the Turkish

Republic," 1991; "Turkey and the Holocaust," 1992).

 

After retiring in 1992 from UCLA with various benefits, Shaw took

advantage of the "golden parachute" arrangement offered to many senior

faculty there to continue teaching courses for another five years. He

then moved with his wife to Turkey, and became professor of Ottoman

and Turkish history in Ankara's Bilkent University from 1999 until his

death. There, he published "Studies in Ottoman and Turkish History:

Life with the Ottomans" (Istanbul: Isis Press, 2000); a five-volume

work titled "From Empire to Republic: The Turkish War of National

Liberation 1918-1923. A Documentary Study" (Ankara: Turkish

Historical Society, 2000); and "Bir Dusuncenin Gerçeklesmesi: Osmanli

Tarihi Çalismalarima" (Ankara: Türkiye Bilimler Akademisi Forumu,

2003), on his work on Ottoman history.

 

In his multivolume work on the Turkish war for independence, Shaw

highlighted the "misdeeds" of Armenians and others, while failing to

note or extremely minimizing massacres of Armenians committed by

Ottomans or Muslims in this period.

 

Shaw continued periodically to issue statements on the Armenian

Genocide while living in Turkey. For example, according to a Turkish

news agency, last year he called Switzerland "uncivilized" for

beginning a legal procedure against Turkish History Society president

Yusuf Halaçoglu for statements denying the Armenian Genocide.

 

Shaw's biases fit in well with those of his colleagues in Middle

Eastern studies. Turkey's generally anti-Soviet stand in the Cold War,

and American economic interests led to American promotion of positive

views of Turkey, while the Turkish historical establishment, dominated

by official state views, naturally also appreciated such

historiographical revisionism, thus allowing Shaw wide access to

Ottoman archives.

 

Stanford Shaw consequently was able to play an influential role in the

broader field of Middle Eastern studies. He helped found the

"International Journal of Middle East Studies" for the Middle Eastern

Studies Association, which is the major organization of scholars

specializing on this area in the United States. He edited this

journal, published by Cambridge University Press, from 1970 to 1980.

 

Shaw received medals from the president of Turkey, the

Turkish-American Association, and the Research Center for Islamic

History, Art, and Culture at the Yildiz Palace, Istanbul, as well as

honorary degrees from Harvard University and Bogazici University in

Istanbul. He was made an honorary member of the Turkish Academy of

Science at the end of 2005. Major foundations provided him with

research awards and fellowships, including the United States National

Endowment for the Humanities, the Guggenheim Foundation, the Ford

Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation, the Social Science Research

Council, the Fulbright-Hayes Committee, and the Royal Institute of

International Affairs in London.

 

Shaw obviously possessed great energy and considerable ability. It is

a shame that in the latter half of his career he often pursued

tendentious goals at the expense of a reasoned historiographical

methodology. This, along with sloppy writing, damaged the value of his

own work, harmed the field of Ottoman studies, and caused

Armenians--and the descendants of the other former Ottoman subject

nationalities who received short shrift in his works--great upset.

 

* * *

 

Historian Aram Arkun was a graduate student at UCLA during the 1980s.

[phantom22]

Listen, I am a Protestant Christian by upbringing and a Zen Buddhist by transcendence. I have only been in Jewish temples for the marriages of my family members to Jews, standing up for Jewish friends when they were married or the Bar Mizvah of my nephews.

 

 

Go join your coreligionist in shoveling coal. Give him a kiss too. I know you want to.

Edited December 27, 2006 by phantom22

[Lev7]

Racism?????? Pure BS. Just stating facts. Ninety-nine percent of the AG deniers who aren't turks are jews. Nothing "racist" about stating FACTS.

 

Also, in truth, there was nothing "racist" about the Armenian Genocide either. It had to do with geopolitical ambititions in regard to world resources, eliminating the competition and zionist land grabbing.

 

Answer me one question, why would Jews accept the Armenian Genocide? If most of the world did not accept the Holocaust today, do you think most of Armenians and Armenia would accept it?

 

Unfortunately it comes down to every person for himself, every country for itself and every ethnic group for itself. It is because of people like you who wait until other people admit our trategy or if they do not do it you cuss at them, that the Genocide is not recognized worldwide. But, did you every ask yourself, why would anyone care for our surrows? We have to do it ourselves, we always wait until somebody saves us or discusses our problems, lets take things in our own hands for a change! Go, out there and start making noise, let Americans know about the Genocide, instead of blaming Jews for all your problems!

Edited December 27, 2006 by Lev7

[neko]

Unfortunately it comes down to every person for himself, every country for itself and every ethnic group for itself.

 

That is the philosophy I would expect to be held by a Jew, I think.

[ED]

oh boy, another Jew bashing session?

people, you intend to forget this is the GENOCIDE section, try to keep it clean and intellectual

this is getting to be childish at list!

[Verginne]

Answer me one question, why would Jews accept the Armenian Genocide?

 

They and their media have portrayed themselves as the last word on "morality." Their are always preaching about the non-existent judeo-Christian morality. Not true of course. Logically and politically speaking, they have no reason to accept the Armenian Genocide because they themselves have so much to do with it. They have been denying it and covering it up since the days of Theodore Herzl.

 

 

If most of the world did not accept the Holocaust today, do you think most of Armenians and Armenia would accept it?

 

I don't expect Armenians to accept anything that is untruthful, exaggerated or fictitious, no matter how many people did or didn't believe it.

 

Unfortunately it comes down to every person for himself, every country for itself and every ethnic group for itself.

 

That's the jewish philosophy of life. They feel nothing, no connection and no brotherly feelings for any other people other than themselves. It's their religion. I reject that totally.

 

It is because of people like you who wait until other people admit our trategy or if they do not do it you cuss at them, that the Genocide is not recognized worldwide.

 

No, it's because of people like Stanford Shaw. Bernard Lewis. Bruce Fein. Shimon Peres. Rivka Kohen. Cheryl Kagan. Bruce Ramer. The jewish lobbies. The state of israel, all of whom lend their total support and resources to turkish denialism.

 

But, did you every ask yourself, why would anyone care for our surrows? We have to do it ourselves, we always wait until somebody saves us or discusses our problems, lets take things in our own hands for a change! Go, out there and start making noise, let Americans know about the Genocide,

 

What do you think I and many others have been doing for many, many years? Don't make improper assumptions when you don't know what or who you are talking about.

 

instead of blaming Jews for all your problems!

 

I only give credit where credit is due. Don't hand me a line from their textbook of excuses about why people have a problem with them, when it's them who blame everyone else for their problems. They have a real problem in that regard, accepting blame for their own BAD behavior. Always crying about how people mistreat them when the opposite is true, they think there's something wrong with everyone else, not them.

[Takoush]

No, it's because of people like Stanford Shaw. Bernard Lewis. Bruce Fein. Shimon Peres. Rivka Kohen. Cheryl Kagan. Bruce Ramer. The jewish lobbies. The state of israel, all of whom lend their total support and resources to turkish denialism.

Though I didn't know most of the names of the above people; but I know what Verginne is referring about.

 

It is true. Though Jews are only 3% of the U.S. population but they have 65% of the senate votes to turn it around whatever or whichever direction they want the country to go.

 

And it's very unfortunate that Israelis and Israel is against our Genocidal acceptance. It's sheer shame when I always have sympathized with them for their misfortunes; but they are not at all sympathyzing for us now.

Edited December 28, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi

[phantom22]

Anahid,

 

Verginne has an ax to grind. She/he is not telling the whole story.

 

I know EVERY one of these names

 

Stanford Shaw was a Turkified former colleague of Dr. Hovanissian and other Armenian scholars

 

Bernard Lewis is a Emeritus Princeton Professor

 

Bruce Fein is an attorney in the employ of the Turkish government

 

Shimon Peres is a former Israeli Prime Minister

 

Rivka Cohen is or was the Israeli Ambassador to Armenia

 

Cheryl Kagan is a member of the Maryland state legislator opposed to the Armenian cause

 

Bruce Ramer is former head of the American Jewish Committee

 

For each one of these there are five Jews who support our cause.

 

For example Harvard Profesor James Russell is married to an Armenian.

Just look at the list of 125 Holocaust scholars who signed the letter placed in the New York Times and you will find close to 100 American Jewish scholars who support our cause

 

Israeli Cabinet Ministers Yossi Beilin and Yossi Sarid are very vocal supporters ofthe Armenian cause

 

I can begon with Adam Schiff and then list numerous Jewish politicians who are of higher rank than Cheryl Kagan who consistently support us.

 

I have worked alongside numerous Jews. Jews support each other while Armenians tear each other apart. That is why they have political power and we presently have only one congresswoman who is half Assyrian and is known more as an Assyrian than an Armenian

 

 

Though I didn't know most of the names of the above people; but I know what Verginne is referring about.

 

It is true. Though Jews are only 3% of the U.S. population but they have 65% of the senate votes to turn it around whatever or whichever direction they want the country to go.

 

And it's very unfortunate that Israelis and Israel is against our Genocidal acceptance. It's sheer shame when I always have sympathized with them for their misfortunes; but they are not at all sympathyzing for us now.

[Lev7]

It is true. Though Jews are only 3% of the U.S. population but they have 65% of the senate votes to turn it around whatever or whichever direction they want the country to go.

 

Good for them, you have to give them credit for achieving such power. I hope the Armenians were as united as them, because we can achieve much more if we all put our heads together

Edited December 28, 2006 by Lev7

[Takoush]

Phantom:

 

Thanks for your enlghtenment, as I didn't know all the facts; but it is very unfortunate that we don't seem to support each other much at all. If we did we'll also get somewhere. This I know.

 

At least the Hay Tad and their respective lobbying is getting somewhere with our cause.

[Armenak]

Neko and phantom were correct! They do become Turkified rather quickly!

 

Նոր Ենիչերիներ?

 

French Historian's Turkish Citizenship Approved

By Cihan News Agency

Wednesday, December 27, 2006

zaman.com

 

Jean Michel Thibaux, a French historian, has had his citizenship application approved by the Turkish Ministry of Internal Affairs.

 

Thibaux accepted an academic position offered by Turkey's Akdeniz University and declared he would become a Turkish citizen in response to the Armenian genocide bill approved in the French Parliament in October 2005.

 

After his application process began at the birth registration office in Konya, Thibaux's application was first accepted by the Population Register Directorate General before being passed to the Interior Ministry.

 

The Ministry of Internal Affairs has approved the application, but it still requires the approval of the Turkish Council of Ministers and President Sezer.

 

Mr. Thibaux’s new name will be Atakan Turk, the Turkish name he has chosen, following publication of the decree in the parliament’s Official Gazette.

 

"I protest the trivial politics of the French on the Armenians. My home will be Turkey if I am accepted as Turkish citizen," Thibaux previously remarked in an interview.

Edited December 28, 2006 by Armenak

[DominO123]

Neko and phantom were correct! They do become Turkified rather quickly!

 

Նոր Ենիչերիներ?

 

French Historian's Turkish Citizenship Approved

By Cihan News Agency

Wednesday, December 27, 2006

zaman.com

 

Jean Michel Thibaux, a French historian, has had his citizenship application approved by the Turkish Ministry of Internal Affairs.

 

Thibaux accepted an academic position offered by Turkey's Akdeniz University and declared he would become a Turkish citizen in response to the Armenian genocide bill approved in the French Parliament in October 2005.

 

After his application process began at the birth registration office in Konya, Thibaux's application was first accepted by the Population Register Directorate General before being passed to the Interior Ministry.

 

The Ministry of Internal Affairs has approved the application, but it still requires the approval of the Turkish Council of Ministers and President Sezer.

 

Mr. Thibaux’s new name will be Atakan Turk, the Turkish name he has chosen, following publication of the decree in the parliament’s Official Gazette.

 

"I protest the trivial politics of the French on the Armenians. My home will be Turkey if I am accepted as Turkish citizen," Thibaux previously remarked in an interview.

 

He is not a historian but a writer. This man in my book has lost every credibility he ever had.

 

While I disagree with the application of the French law, the man has shown to be unable to resonate. I could understand someone protesting a government intrusion, but that this idiot request citizenship from a country which is specifically known for its governments intrusion forcing people to think the way it wants, his decision is totally contradictory.

 

One must be a fool to change his entire name and change country for a country which does worst of the same thing for what he did it.

[Yervant1]

He is not a historian but a writer. This man in my book has lost every credibility he ever had.

 

While I disagree with the application of the French law, the man has shown to be unable to resonate. I could understand someone protesting a government intrusion, but that this idiot request citizenship from a country which is specifically known for its governments intrusion forcing people to think the way it wants, his decision is totally contradictory.

 

One must be a fool to change his entire name and change country for a country which does worst of the same thing for what he did it.

Alterior motives!!!!!

Job opportunities at the university and be worshiped by turks. I don't believe for one minute that he did it only for freedom of speech.

[phantom22]

Every whore has their price!!!

 

My late father used to tell a story about a beautiful woman who was propositioned by one of a group of friends of differing economic levels, one a small shopkeeper, another university professor and the third a tycoon. They were long-time childhood friends. First the shopkeeper propositioned her. He tried to lure her to a private picnic in the campgrounds, alluding that the meeting may proceed to sexual affairs. He even stated that he would buy her an expensive gift worth $1,000. She replied angrily to him "What do you think I am??" Next the university professor, who she did not know was friends with the small businessman, offered to take her on an all-expenses trip to numerous European cities, and also alluded that the relationship may lead to sexual relations. She replied to him "What do you think I am??

 

A few weeks after this incident, the tycoon approached this beautiful woman and offered to take her on his yacht, wine and dine her, offered to give her a huge diamond friendship ring and one of his villas. There were allusions to potential sexual relations with the tycoon. She gladly accepted the offer.

 

Moral to the story: The answer to "What do you think I am??" was established. The only variable was price.

 

THIS THIBAUX IS JUST AN EXPENSIVE WHORE!!!!!!

 

 

Alterior motives!!!!!

Job opportunities at the university and be worshiped by turks. I don't believe for one minute that he did it only for freedom of speech.

Edited December 28, 2006 by phantom22

[Verginne]

There's plenty more names I could give you, but the connection they all have is that they are jews.

 

jews who support the Armenian cause generally are those who have little or no influence whatsoever that the powerful zionist forces can easily do without and actually serve them so that idiots can point to them and say, "See, see, these jews support you." Typical good cop, bad cop game they play and you see people like Phantom scrounging for any bones they throw. Bones which amount to absolutely NOTHING.

 

ONLY when and if these jews stop those lobbies and israel will they matter to us. I don't see them doing that at all. Just recently israel and the jewish lobbies reaffirmed their complete support for turkey and azerbaijan in ALL matters, especially regarding Armenians.

Edited December 28, 2006 by Verginne