Turkish Lawmaker Compares Pope To Hitler

[ED]

I'd say Turkey should keep the Pope for there amusment, they truly belong with each other

 

let them have there orgy and produce many many offspring basterds, time will come, this wont last, evantualy shit will hit the fan and guess what, its out time then

 

Nyaa really I'm not that kind of an Armenian, I just wish my fellow Armenians would understand Finaly there is no salvation amongs those, not untill we prisent something they would be interested in. I just want to exsist in peace, no less and no more then others, important thing will be to know who you are and what you are capble of.

 

ok, whats the worst thing can happen to turkey if not let to get in EU? NOTHING! whats vs-versa? NOTHING, at list nothing to us

[Error 404]

How about starting with the "BAN OF RABIZ MUSIC"!!! lolol

 

I am kidding Edo jan. Edo you are using too much abbreviations. You are not one of lazy americans are you? Type the whole word please to be more understandable.

 

I agree with you that we have to start from inside out. The point of the issue is about that. Mutafyan is not french not german not kirgiz or turksih (or maybe he is who knows). He suppose to be Armenian and a person on his position must do everything to support his nation and force the Armenian Genocide issue whenever and wherever he can. Otherwise he does not deserve that position.

 

But what he does? He harms the issue by denying it or making it a tabu.

 

By the way instead of writing essays about the issue why don't we write a letter to him and so he can be ashamed (if he knows what is the shame).

 

Te che tshar asem te zang kaxem patmutyunna darnum.

 

Arpa how about you making a letter and we all sign it?

[Aubépine]

As a cleric he probably can't emphasise the Armenian genocide in political terms. You seem to forget where he lives and with whom he has to deal with. It's not his role to play politics, but he has a moral obligation and not act as a lackey.

[Takoush]

Mutafyan Shmuftatyan is acting like a real toady and parasyte. Clergy? What type of a clergy would say such a dehumanistic talks? I'd say he doesn't deserve to be a top clergy, especially when he talks against the Genocide? He's a big ass**h**le.

 

You're right Aubepine; he doesn't have to play politics; but he certainly has a moral obligation towards our massacred Armenians.

 

Ed; you make another point that is certainly valid. We also talk so much about politics and our unfortunate past; how about cleaning up our own domain? How about buying more Armenian products and helping out our newly built Republic? That means also promoting our own culture and NOT buying any turkish goods NOT promoting any turkish culture or the likes. NOT buying turkish jewelry, etc., etc.

[Error 404]

http://www.boycott-turkey.com/

 

Here you go.

 

I do not buy turkish food for years now. I do not buy products made in turkey and I do not listen to turkish music.

 

And yeah actually shame on armenian businessmen and consumers who buy turkish products instead of those made in Armenia.

 

El chxoranam hami masin arden parza...

[Arpa]

Can we please reserve our comments about the Patriarch, and if necessary go here;

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10986

With all due, believe it or not, there really are some positive articles about him

[ED]

name='Error 404' date='Nov 28 2006, 02:12 PM' post='182560']

 

I am kidding Edo jan. Edo you are using too much abbreviations. You are not one of lazy americans are you? Type the whole word please to be more understandable.

 

I can't really tell your kidding or you’re serious, or just having fun carelessly

If you want me to simplify it so you could digest better, then say so

By the way, don’t take serious Topics and serve it for your own self amusement,

Not impassive, see below!

 

 

 

 

But what he does? He harms the issue by denying it or making it a tabu.

 

I knew you ment Taboo, and not Tabu.

[Error 404]

Can we please reserve our comments about the Patriarch, and if necessary go here;

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10986

With all due, believe it or not, there really are some positive articles about him

 

Looks like he can't choose a side. Double standards.

[Takoush]

Error404; I don't understand how you could not read Edward's posts and understand it well.

 

I read it and quickly once and I understood everything he said. It was very clear to me.

[Error 404]

I can't really tell your kidding or you’re serious, or just having fun carelessly

If you want me to simplify it so you could digest better, then say so

By the way, don’t take serious Topics and serve it for your own self amusement,

Not impassive, see below!

I knew you ment Taboo, and not Tabu.

 

Lol Edo,

 

excuse my "poor" english. But I didn't mean that. By asking not to use abbreviation I meant AG (I know this one), ROA, LPT, LTP (I didn't understand these ones). I know that LPT=Line Print Terminal. But it doesn't fit the topic

 

anyway

 

kneres yete krqerd viravoreci expair

 

P.S. That's why I asked Arpa to write a letter since he is a Linguist

[Error 404]

Error404; I don't understand how you could not read Edward's posts and understand it well.

 

I read it and quickly once and I understood everything he said. It was very clear to me.

 

De knereq dserd paycarapaylutyun (majesty).

 

Hima karogha boloricd neroghutyun xndrem?

[ED]

Tesnes kkaroghanam haskatsvel vor LTP=Levon Ter-Petrosyan u LPT-in parzapes tarasxal er?

 

hima arjuma mi tari hamar menq viravorvenq apers?

Tes inchpisi "zoh" em talis vor der portsumem hstakatsnel vor tarasxallneri hetevits kariq chka enknenq, aveli lurj temaneri masin xosenq, te che ..........hay haayyyyy

 

barekam, du storagirs kartatseles? paps nmanorinak xosk el uner, uzumes na el kasem.

mi spasi gnam Jermuk gam yes qez kasem yeritasard

[ED]

De knereq dserd paycarapaylutyun (majesty).

 

Hima karogha boloricd neroghutyun xndrem?

 

 

 

che che Error jan, inqe Sheqspirian Taguhi e (Hamlet)

[Error 404]

che che Error jan, inqe Sheqspirian Taguhi e (Hamlet)

 

Uremn Hamleti pes asem ha?

 

Aprel tanelov kyanqi guyzh qmhatshuyqner@ gitcenalov vor mi or piti mernenq qnananq, minchder mardik dashuynov en lucum irenc harcer@.

 

...Mernel ? ...mernel qnanal?

 

gna menastan...

 

 

P.S. Erevuma laaav sheghvecinq temayic.

Edited November 29, 2006 by Error 404

[Takoush]

Uremn Hamleti pes asem ha?

 

Aprel tanelov kyanqi guyzh qmhatshuyqner@ gitcenalov vor mi or piti mernenq qnananq, minchder mardik dashuynov en lucum irenc harcer@.

 

...Mernel ? ...mernel qnanal?

 

gna menastan...

P.S. Erevuma laaav sheghvecinq temayic.

Error: Himag yes el qez chem hasgenar. Menastan?

 

Hedo inch gases [sheghvecinq temayic]?

 

Mi havadar Edin, yes Shakespearian Takouhi chem. Yes Anahid Asdvadsouhin em gergin gyank arads...gergin ashxarh yegads. Hokche teh yes Hayasdan chem dsnvel payts dsnvel em yegher Michin Arevelk, payts tartsyal em yes HAY

Edited November 29, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi

[Error 404]

Error: Himag yes el qez chem hasgenar. Menastan?

 

Hedo inch gases [sheghvecinq temayic]?

 

Mi havadar Edin, yes Shakespearian Takouhi chem. Yes Anahid Asdvadsouhin em gergin gyank arads...gergin ashxarh yegads. Hokche teh yes Hayasdan chem dsnvel payts dsnvel em yegher Michin Arevelk, payts tartsyal em yes HAY

 

Zarmanali chi vor krkin kyanq es arel bayc otarutyan mej. Zhamanakin tsayraheghakan (fanatic) qristonianer@ qandecin qo u myus astvacneri tacharner@ moracnel tvin amboghj azgin ir hin mshakuyt@. Miguce daya patshar@ vor mer azg@ ayd oreric heto miayn partvel yev korcrela ?!?!?

[Takoush]

Zarmanali chi vor krkin kyanq es arel bayc otarutyan mej. Zhamanakin tsayraheghakan (fanatic) qristonianer@ qandecin qo u myus astvacneri tacharner@ moracnel tvin amboghj azgin ir hin mshakuyt@. Miguce daya patshar@ vor mer azg@ ayd oreric heto miayn partvel yev korcrela ?!?!?

 

Ouremn aveli bidi zarmanas Error yerp asem qez teh yes al Krisdonia em. Himag bidi ases pah inchbes gareli e at; artyok tou iragan Anahitn es?

 

Sagayn djishd es lav orer eyin mer hin Navasartian orere; aveli parkavadj ou hachogh orer eyin mer azkin hamar. Meghk chem ouzoum asel vorovhedev mer azki abakan payloun gouzem desnel.

[Error 404]

mer (azgi) lav@ chuzoghi ... che? loool

 

Yes el em qristonia Anahit jan. It is a good and peacefull religion and has so much good in it. But my point is we shouldn't have destroyed our old heritage.

 

De gna hima Amerikacun kam Chinacun apacuci vor parsikneri Ahura Mazdan mer Aramazdica krknorinakvel kam el Ishtar (Assyrian), Hathor (Egypthian), Artemis (Lydia) Aphroditen (Greek) mer Anahit dicuhuc en krknorinakvel.

 

Arayzhm aysqan@...

[Takoush]

Iravounk ounis isgabes tsavali e. Ador hamar al ashxarhi mech krete chenk djanchtsvads ayjm.

[ED]

Error jan, ushadir karta, grvatss postum es mart@ hrashali kerpov artatsolume mtqers

 

 

RUDYARD KIPLING

If

If you can keep your head when all about you

Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,

But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,

Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,

Or being hated, don't give way to hating,

And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

 

If you can dream -- and not make dreams your master;

If you can think -- and not make thoughts your aim;

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster

And treat those two imposters just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken

Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,

Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,

And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools;

 

If you can make one heap of all your winnings

And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,

And lose, and start again at your beginnings

And never breathe a word about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew

To serve your turn long after they are gone,

And so hold on when there is nothing in you

Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

 

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,

Or walk with kings -- nor lose the common touch,

If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,

If all men count with you, but none too much;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute

With sixty seconds' worth of distance run --

Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,

And -- which is more -- you'll be a Man, my son!

[Error 404]

Urax em Edo jan:)

 

der hamalsaranakan tarineris em kardacel sa, isk aveli vagh hasakum Mowuglyn em kardacel nuyn heghinakic.

 

Zhoghovurd lav sheghvecinq ha vonc vor temayic?

Edited November 29, 2006 by Error 404

[Takoush]

Qani vor dagavin artoun em, yes el gartatsi, teyev qesi oughvads er Error. Cheyi gartatsads payts shad xoroung mi gdor e.

[Aubépine]

As a cleric he probably can't emphasise the Armenian genocide in political terms. You seem to forget where he lives and with whom he has to deal with. It's not his role to play politics, but he has a moral obligation and not act as a lackey.

Refusal to acknowledge Armenian genocide

 

For the Turkish state, and many Turks, to admit their forebears committed genocide is something they will not even consider

BY MATTHEW MCALLESTER

Newsday Staff Correspondent

 

November 29, 2006, 3:13 PM EST

 

ISTANBUL, Turkey -- Mesrob II, the Armenian Patriarch of Istanbul and all Turkey, was silent for a second.

 

He had just been asked by a reporter if he acknowledged that the Armenian genocide happened.

 

 

 

"Uhhhh," he said, "I acknowledge that people were killed." He was silent again. "Many people lost their lives."

 

More uneasy silence followed.

 

This from a man whose paternal grandfather was the only one of six ethnic Armenian brothers to make it back to Istanbul after being, as he put it, "deported to the Syrian desert" in 1915. They were among more than a million ethnic Armenians who suffered a similar fate at the hands of Ottoman Turks: They were rounded up, deported to concentration camps and, for the most part, killed.

 

"So severe has been the treatment that careful estimates place the number of survivors at only 15 percent of those originally deported," the U.S. consul in Aleppo wrote to the State Department in 1915 in a dispatch quoted in a recent article in The New Yorker magazine. "On this basis the number surviving even this far being less than 150,000 … there seems to have been about 1,000,000 persons lost up to this date."

 

What Mesrob II, who will meet the visiting Pope Benedict XVI today in Istanbul, could not or would not say was that the Turks of the then-Ottoman Empire committed genocide against the Armenians who lived in modern-day Turkey. For the Turkish state, and many Turks, to admit their forebears committed genocide is something they will not even consider, and it makes many Turks extremely angry even to suggest the genocide happened.

 

Authors and journalists, including Nobel Prize winning novelist Orhan Pamuk, have been prosecuted for suggesting it took place. But for the 65,000 ethnic Armenians -- mostly Orthodox Christians -- who live in this country of 70 million Muslims, to speak publicly of genocide would not be just brave, but potentially suicidal.

 

"Probably the state wouldn't do anything directly except make some statement" if Mesrob was to say there had been a genocide, said Murat Belge, one of Pamuk's publishers and an organizer of an unprecedented conference last year in Istanbul about the genocide.

 

"Very likely he would be assassinated by some fascists," continued Belge, who was himself prosecuted under a controversial law last year for writing critical articles about a court's ban on the conference. "The Patriarchate would be burned down. A lot of Armenians would be shot in their daily lives."

 

Mesrob, in an interview at the well-guarded Armenian Patriarchate in Istanbul, said many different peoples, governments, political parties and even his own Armenian Patriarchate should share the blame for what happened in 1915. He said he believed the best way for Turks and Armenians to reconcile is for Turkey to open its border with Armenia and for the two countries to encourage exchange visits and other ways of generating mutual sympathy.

 

"It's not a matter of being silent about the issue," he said. "It's a matter of how can you make friends with someone. Do you from the first moment simply confront the person?"

 

If it's not silence, then it's a pragmatic sort of self-censorship. Growing up, Mesrob's father never talked to him about what happened to the previous generation, he said. "I think they didn't want us to be at odds with our Muslim neighbors."

 

That parenting method continues today among the ethnic Armenians in Turkey, Mesrob said. "We don't tell our children about historical problems so they won't face problems."

 

The Turkish government's position on the events of 1915 is that the people who died in the region at the time died as a result of inter-ethnic fighting, disease and hardships caused by war.

 

More than 20 countries have officially recognized the genocide, as have a majority of the 50 states in the United States, including New York. It is long-standing State Department policy not to refer to the events of 1915 as genocide; many critics of this policy see it as a politically expedient way of avoiding alienating a crucial American ally.

 

Most Western historians agree the genocide happened. Last year, the International Association of Genocide Scholars wrote to Turkey's prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, about it, concluding: "We believe that it is clearly in the interest of the Turkish people and their future as a proud and equal participant in international, democratic discourse to acknowledge the responsibility of a previous government for the genocide of the Armenian people, just as the German government and people have done in the case of the Holocaust."

 

Such an acknowledgement will not come easily or quickly -- if at all.

 

"Until the 1980s there was a total loss of memory," said a Turkish political powerbroker who requested anonymity because of the topic's sensitivity. "Nobody talked about this. It was the policy of the omnipotent state not to talk about anything negative."

 

Last year's conference in Istanbul and a growing concern about the issue within Europe -- a recent French law makes it a crime to deny the genocide happened -- have moved Turkey slightly closer to coming to terms with its past.

 

"The skeletons are there and they have not vanished," the Turkish powerbroker said. "Now we are going to open the cupboard."

 

If Turkey is to gain entry to the European Union, it likely will have to acknowledge its actions in 1915 -- although Turkey accepting the word "genocide" could forever remain a sticking point.

 

Egemen Bagis, foreign policy adviser to Erdogan, said in an interview that last year Erdogan made an offer to the Armenian president: Both countries would establish an independent investigative commission and open up all countries' archives in order to establish what happened.

 

"No other politician in Turkey's history has ever said he is ready to face his own history," Bagis said.

 

But when asked if he recognized that a genocide took place, Bagis responded quickly: "I don't."

[Yervant1]

Dear Aubepine, first how are you? You and people like you are the only reason I'm hopefull that one day things will be better for all of us.

As for the topic at hand I have two old sayings that both of our people use.

The sound of the drum is better from a distance.

The fire burns the area where it falls.

Armenians in Turkey always should play the balancing act very delicately, there is no room for error.

[Aubépine]

I don't have much hope unfortunately. People like me are a drop in the ocean maybe even less than that. I haven't come across anyone in Turkey who thinks even remotely like I do. I'm still hesitant to send out feelers to my friends and colleagues about the Armenians not to mention the Genocide. Who knows maybe they exist out there, but I don't count the bleeding heart liberals and other insincere folk who have ulterior motives. I'm not a proselytiser or am about out to preach to ordinary Turks. For me it's moral issue first and foremost. Some people just don't get it. They can't grasp that it's downright criminal and repulsive to send a whole nation to the desert to be butchered. You should see the pathetic excuses they give. And I don't mean the fanatics, but the depoliticised common folk. As if massacre and expulsion is something perfectly acceptable. Placing oneself in someone else's shoes is a concept that is completely alien here. Even that wouldn't work on them. Maybe that's the dividing line what makes a human, human.