Sasun Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 yes Sasun but someone might take imature and basless comments like sebs personaly, just like you take some comments personal when someone says somthing similar. with all due fairness, and i dont agree with anyone who tells me if i or one doesent belive in what ever faith is prisented in an argument, that i sould or would go to hell, now that is nonesence and you know it I think that Seb has been misunderstood a lot of times despite his clarifications. But this is not just about Seb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) I think that Seb has been misunderstood a lot of times despite his clarifications. But this is not just about Seb. when i was a teen, I've been misunderstood many times, so what! ? let him face the reality, lets be rational here for a moment Sasun jan at that age everyone says something irrational, and older ones should learn not to take such comments seriosly, things change as we grow older, our perspective in live, how we look at them ( Sevak@ mi lav poem uni sra masin, Ireri u arakaneri dasavorutyune kyanqyum today is this, tommarow sebs views might change, it happend to me, and sure will happen to you and everyone Edited March 22, 2006 by Edward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 When I was young I thought I could eat steel and digest it no problems but today if I eat fruits after 9 PM I don't sleep well. When I was young I thought I had solutions for everything in life, today I know how wrong I was then. When I was young I was idealist and purist today I'm realistic and practical. When I was young I thought I could solve world problems today I know I can't even solve my own problems. These are few things about my young adult life. As a young adult you could be smart and very clever but have no doubt about it that older people have the life experience that no young adult could ever have, therefore it is important for our young forumers to understand that and refrain from making smart**s remarks that they know better, in particularly about life in general. I hope I did't offend anyone with this, if I did my apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Ed and Yervand, excellent posts I enjoy this type of conversations a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Seb, if I can make a suggestion. I have an impression that sometimes you are a minimalist with word usage Please say more so people don't misunderstand you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) Ed and Sasun: I also enjoy your thoughtful posts. Both of you guys give a lot of wisdom and good advice to everyone on the Forum. Thanks to both of you and for your thoughtfulness!!! Edited March 22, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Sip, nonsense is when on this forum some kind of an inquisition is going on. People are questioned their beliefs and ridiculed. Speaking of threat, where exactly do you see a threat? It is an exaggeration. Threat is when someone will actually threaten you, personally. On the other hand, a certain theology has a concept of a hell, and some people believe in it. You guys have issues with a theology, but are attacking individuals. There is a difference because theology is impersonal, while you have made it an issue with individuals who believe in that theology. People are free to believe without being harrassed for their beliefs. If you don't believe that there is hell then what seems to be the problem. Does Seb's belief in hell affect your life in any way? I don't see any objective reason why somebody should be frustrated by sombody elses belief. Sasun, you also should take what you said and apply to yourself. Why are you so threatened when someone redicules a religion? As I've said before and I'll repeat again, not all ideas are equally worthwhile. I chose which ones I consider as valid and which ones I consider worthless. And this being a puglic forum, I will feel free to express as such. SeBb's personal beliefs do not affect me in any way obviously. So should my personal thoughts about him. If I think he is very young, foolish, and completely brainwashed by an institutionalized cult, that is PERFECTLY within my capacity as a forum member. I don't see why that should tick you off so much if you expect the same from us to go on and be "tolerant" of any sort of crap (from my perspective) that might be pumped into the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 I see this all as a tit-for-tat. You're ALL SAYING THE SAME THING. But you're on two different sides of a brick wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) I see this all as a tit-for-tat. You're ALL SAYING THE SAME THING. But you're on two different sides of a brick wall. Yup ... it's like some sort of 1-st grade he did it first no he did it first no he did it first. ... and it all goes in a loop after a while. But I am too immature to stop it and will play this game till the cows come home. The "enlightened" liberal tolerant kinds have taken a back seat to the preachy religious loud-mouths faaaaar too long. NO more! I can be just as preachy and closed minded as the religious. And it's interesting to watch them cringe as they get a taste of their own medicine sometimes What's sad is that a lot of religious people have never encountered someone that has looked them straight in eye and said: "HEY! Maybe you are full of it. Have you ever considered that possibility?" ... amazingly enough, many haven't ... and won't. Edited March 22, 2006 by Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 So, are you afraid of death? No I'd meant to answer you earlier today, but as I was about to post Hyeforum froze. Then I had to go to class Isn't it funny how the same discussions keep coming around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 One of the first things I got him to say is that all those who don't believe in the Christian God will go to Hell. I NEVER said that. Like I've said before, on judgement day, you will be judged according to your personal knowledge of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 I think he is very young, foolish, and completely brainwashed by an institutionalized cult... And you say we ridicule you and say you are unenlightened idiots? We've NEVER implied such things, and you know it. The only people under persecution here are the Christians, as you even called us an "institutionalized cult". Why do you demand respect and understanding if you show none yourself? It's almost as if you enjoy attempting to drive the gap between Atheist-Armenians and Christian-Armenians further and further apart... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) One thing for sure unfortunately. It doesn't have to be that way; I mean separating the two, between Christian Armenians and atheist or agnostic Armenians. We are ALL Armenians here and shouldn't we love each other regardless? I think tolerance must be the key here and respect and understanding regardless of one's religion or beliefs. After all, we are all sensitive and loving towards our homeland, her ups and downs and also we should worry about the slow and or the fast assimilation processes here in the diaspora and what could and should we do about it for our brethren and for the survival of our loving nation and nationality. Take me for instance, though yes I am Christian but my heart pounds how Armenia and Armenians thrive or not whether in Armenia or outside of Armenia. I think most of us are very much the same way in here; be it Christian or otherwise. So let's be kind to each other in the meantime and be respectful and understanding of our religious differences. We all have one very specific goal; our Armenianness and our Republic of Armenia. Edited March 22, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) Why is it that it is okay, and everybody should shut up when the so called Christians come here and spread their bigotry, insult everyone's intelligence, and I mean intelligence, and anyone who does not share their opinion to the T, and the rest are told to shut up? Does anyone else come here and preach their take on relighion and insist that theirs' is the only and the correct way? Yes, we may have at times had self appointed atheists and pagans spread their garbage as well. But why is it that the so called Christians (I use that term as there may be as many kinds of Christians as there are people on this planet) can say anything they want, always quoting the Bible and assuming that, as someone said before "it is wriiten" by God, yet how tolerant would they be if a Jehovah's witness, a Catholic or a Protestant, to mention a few, would come here and spread their kind of nonsense? Why are we talking about religion? Is this a forum by and for the church? Are there not fora dealing with that subject exlusively and specifically? A couple of days ago I posted a thread about spring, Garun A. How many read it? How many participated in it? Why are we talking about death at this time of the year? Is this not time to talk about life, resurrection, renewal and regeneration? Sadly and ironiacally enough our most memorable date falls right smack in the middle of spring. How about it Seb? Can you contribute to that thread above? No there are no relevent pasages in the Bible (yes there are). How about you compose a poem about spring. Can you compose something like; "Spring is for the birds", or "Spring has sprung, So has my green thumb". PS. I just noticed another irony. This thread about "death" is under the general subject topic of "life". Edited March 22, 2006 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Why is it that it is okay, and everybody should shut up when the so called Christians come here and spread their bigotry, insult everyone's intelligence, and I mean intelligence, and anyone who does not share their opinion to the T, and the rest are told to shut up? Does anyone else come here and preach their take on relighion and insist that theirs' is the only and the correct way? Yes, we may have at times had self appointed atheists and pagans spread their garbage as well. But why is it that the so called Christians (I use that term as there may be as many kinds of Christians as there are people on this planet) can say anything they want, always quoting the Bible and assuming that, as someone said before "it is wriiten" by God, yet how tolerant would they be if a Jehovah's witness, a Catholic or a Protestant, to mention a few, would come here and spread their kind of nonsense? Why are we talking about religion? Is this a forum by and for the church? Are there not fora dealing with that subject exlusively and specifically? A couple of days ago I posted a thread about spring, Garun A. How many read it? How many participated in it? Why are we talking about death at this time of the year? Is this not time to talk about life, resurrection, renewal and regeneration? Sadly and ironiacally enough our most memorable date falls right smack in the middle of spring. How about it Seb? Can you contribute to that thread above? No there are no relevent pasages in the Bible (yes there are). How about you compose a poem about spring. Can you compose something like; "Spring is for the birds", or "Spring has sprung, So has my green thumb". PS. I just noticed another irony. This thread about "death" is under the general subject topic of "life". IMO your posts hold a lot of negativity and you seem very intolerant of Christians, so I wouldn't know on what level we could have a civilized conversation. It's your choice, maybe you should stop the hating and twisting facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) A couple of days ago I posted a thread about spring, Garun A. How many read it? How many participated in it? I have very much participated in the past and thrived on it, I have read it with passion for my Armenian Literature and poetry that I truly love; until unfortunately you started putting down in a demeaning way the Bible it's writings and about God. Until you started your insults towards God. Though my heart is all for my Armenia and my brethren but I am also Armenian Christian; such was and is the case for almost all of the Western Armenians who survived from the Genocide and of course from the AR as well. I felt insulted and I didn't like it. Yet I left you alone; but you have followed me and my posts to find faults in them and or misplaced humour to put me down further. We can look and find faults in each other and or the opposite, and yet try to encourage each other and be constructive. The choice is ours. Edited March 22, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Sasun, you also should take what you said and apply to yourself. Why are you so threatened when someone redicules a religion? As I've said before and I'll repeat again, not all ideas are equally worthwhile. I chose which ones I consider as valid and which ones I consider worthless. And this being a puglic forum, I will feel free to express as such. SeBb's personal beliefs do not affect me in any way obviously. So should my personal thoughts about him. If I think he is very young, foolish, and completely brainwashed by an institutionalized cult, that is PERFECTLY within my capacity as a forum member. I don't see why that should tick you off so much if you expect the same from us to go on and be "tolerant" of any sort of crap (from my perspective) that might be pumped into the forum. Sip, we are going in circles. Please tell me, do you realize that ridiculing somebody's religion insults that person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Why is it that it is okay, and everybody should shut up when the so called Christians come here and spread their bigotry, insult everyone's intelligence, and I mean intelligence, and anyone who does not share their opinion to the T, and the rest are told to shut up? Does anyone else come here and preach their take on relighion and insist that theirs' is the only and the correct way? Yes, we may have at times had self appointed atheists and pagans spread their garbage as well. But why is it that the so called Christians (I use that term as there may be as many kinds of Christians as there are people on this planet) can say anything they want, always quoting the Bible and assuming that, as someone said before "it is wriiten" by God, yet how tolerant would they be if a Jehovah's witness, a Catholic or a Protestant, to mention a few, would come here and spread their kind of nonsense? Why are we talking about religion? Is this a forum by and for the church? Are there not fora dealing with that subject exlusively and specifically? A couple of days ago I posted a thread about spring, Garun A. How many read it? How many participated in it? Why are we talking about death at this time of the year? Is this not time to talk about life, resurrection, renewal and regeneration? Sadly and ironiacally enough our most memorable date falls right smack in the middle of spring. How about it Seb? Can you contribute to that thread above? No there are no relevent pasages in the Bible (yes there are). How about you compose a poem about spring. Can you compose something like; "Spring is for the birds", or "Spring has sprung, So has my green thumb". PS. I just noticed another irony. This thread about "death" is under the general subject topic of "life". I asked you some questions, which I have done before also. You ignored my questions as you have done before, and repeated the same exaggerated accusations againts religions. Basically, what is happening, you are full of hate and can't tolerate religous variety. To justify your expression of hatred, you are inventing accusations. I question your accusations. An honest debate would be to back up your accusations with facts. But that cannot be expected from you... because there are no such facts. And no, this is not a school where you are the teacher and the students have to read your posts about Spring and make comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 One of the first things I got him to say is that all those who don't believe in the Christian God will go to Hell. I NEVER said that. Like I've said before, on judgement day, you will be judged according to your personal knowledge of God. sSebB, I think even Sasun will agree now that I am perfectly justified to tell you, you are absolutely full of . Here is a direct quote from you. Read the Budah thread again if you don't believe me: I said "he is going to hell" in response the question "If he lives a good life but rejects God, where is he going?" Stop paraphrasing and twisting my words around please. http://s93725736.onlinehome.us/hf/seb_owned.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Sip, where is Seb saying the Christian God? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) God is capitalized. There is noooooooo way either of you can wheasel out of this. It is there. Plain and simple. You can try to twist it around with your vague phrasing but it is there and there is no denying it. And Sasun, do you REALLY believe sSebB doesn't mean the Christian God? I have given you the benefit of the doubt because even though I am sure you are very strict in your thinking, you are civil enough to keep your language vague and subject to fuzzy interpretations ... that is fine. It is your defense mechanism. But please don't try to go down the same path sSebB has. Edited March 22, 2006 by Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) Sasun, but before you drag me down this path again, he has also said: Obviously you did not understand. Someone who has done good and is pure, but does not believe in God...has he even heard of God? If he has not...then theres a chance he will go to heaven. Because this person believes they are doing the right thing their whole lives, they are convinced they will go to heaven. If you were a Muslim, and followed God your whole life, worshiped and prayed 5 times a day and did everything a good Muslim should do, will he go to heaven? Yes, because he is judged on his knowledge of God. However, someone who knows God, but rejects him, goes to hell. Understand? So if you are trying to say the "kind" of God doesn't makes a difference to him, then FINE. But that is not the issue. He is saying if someone knows the God, and rejects him (and we ALL know about the Christian God unfortunately so the part about "personal knowledge" is irrelevant), then the person will go to Hell. The rest is meaningless hand waving and flowery language to hide the exact detail of what is being said. Edited March 22, 2006 by Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Gentleman I have a proposition to make. This is how it works, pro-Religion people will become anti-Religion and vice versa. With this effort I think each one of us will try to find something good on each side and bring peace maybe? This might sound funny and stupid but it might work so PLEASE participate. I'll start the first post and remember you will not be hold responsible and your posts will not be used against you later when everybody gets back to their origional position. Religion if practiced properly it can be a good thing. Following the teachings of the holy people will make us better people in dealing with others and our Christian faith will help us understand and cope with suffering and tragedies all around us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 I know this will be an unpopular statement and will offend many, but never the less, I definitely do believe it. The only good thing about religion is that it can be used to keeps the idiot masses in check. Unfortunately, those who do the "keeping" often are extremely misguided themselves ... institutionalization of religion has probably been the worst aspect of humanity left over from the "darker ages". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Sip, we are going in circles. Please tell me, do you realize that ridiculing somebody's religion insults that person? Thank you Sasun jan. You said a mouthful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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