Exposing Christianity

[Takoush]

shat pis xtrakanutyuneq anum, es mer hayernel irar sirelu hamar xelqner@ irentse che

 

tesnes Azati hangover@ antsav?

Eh inch gouzeyir Yetvart? Yete qezi al ge sirem eseyin ayn jamanag xetrakanoutyun cher lini?

 

 

Sagayn iravounq ounis, bedqe mezi poloris al eseyin vor ge siren arants aylyevayli!

Edited March 1, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi

[Sasun]

Here's an eye-opener:

You are right Vava, fanatics are a matter of great concern. On the other hand, one must excercise a fair discrimination between harmless followers of religion and mad fanatics. The latter are in a religion of their own.

[Sip]

On the other hand, one must excercise a fair discrimination between harmless followers of religion and mad fanatics...

 

I don't know which one is worse ... do I want to be surrounded by sheep or wolves.

[Sasun]

I don't know which one is worse ... do I want to be surrounded by sheep or wolves.

Its hard to make you happy.

[Sasun]

MosJan, who told you ‘Amen’ is Armenian, Armen maybe.. Btw. We have spoken about this, that when in declension and parsing, if it turns into an Ի it is Է, Ամէն/Ամեն/Amin/Amen.

Amen is from the Semitic, Aramaic/Arabic that means “I believe”, as in the Nicean Creed/ Նիգեական Հանգանակ- “I believe in one God/ Հավատամ ի մի Աստուած”.

Iman in the Semitic languages means “faith/հավատ” which in this context, when one says Amen, it means “I believe/”I trust”, Կը հավատամ Հավատում եմ/Կը վստահիմ/ Վստահում եմ.

Which brings us to a subject that has caught my fancy for quite some time. Ajarian says, whatever he says,

I have to read his interpretation about “imanum em/lsum em”, that according to him is of some kind of Armenian origin. I must, at this juncture, address the issue in a separate post in “language“, that it is rather from the Semitic “iman/faith/trust”.

According to the information I have, Amen means a "faithful witness" as it serves as a witness of the transcendental God in the creation. It may have changed the meaning later on, I don't know about that. The most important fact about Amen/Amin is that it is a transformed form of the primordial sound/vibration Aum - the sacred chant of Hindus, also known to Tibetian Buddhists as Hum which is their sacred chant.

Aum was the virbration which heralded the creation and is present in every corner of the universe (in Gospel of St. John "in the beginning there was the word, and the word was Amen..."). For example, masses of atoms emit a very subtle vibration that sounds Aum. One can hear this sound in a deep, silent meditation when breath and bodily motions have been calmed down to near complete suspension.

The unity of Amen/Aum/Hum/Aum signifies the essential unity in the foundations of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism.

[Sip]

Its hard to make you happy.

 

Actually quite the opposite. All it really takes is a little bit of independent thought and effort. If I see someone trying (or at least struggling) then that makes me happy. Not because I enjoy seeing others suffer, but because I enjoy watching humans trying to better themselves as opposed to rehashing the same old thought patterns, supersitions, and dogma that have plauged us for millenia

 

The reason I was unhappy above is because in either case, the sheep and the wolf both seem to follow the pack. I don't think we will ever have any progress if we all stuck to the pack. Of course I am NOT saying the pack is always wrong either ... just saying that neither a harmless follower nor a mad fanatic be

[aSoldier]

Actually quite the opposite. All it really takes is a little bit of independent thought and effort. If I see someone trying (or at least struggling) then that makes me happy. Not because I enjoy seeing others suffer, but because I enjoy watching humans trying to better themselves as opposed to rehashing the same old thought patterns, supersitions, and dogma that have plauged us for millenia

 

The reason I was unhappy above is because in either case, the sheep and the wolf both seem to follow the pack. I don't think we will ever have any progress if we all stuck to the pack. Of course I am NOT saying the pack is always wrong either ... just saying that neither a harmless follower nor a mad fanatic be

 

I'm sensing you seem to think we only pray to God and do nothing more to achieve what we want in life...

[Sip]

I'm sensing you seem to think we only pray to God and do nothing more to achieve what we want in life...

 

 

If the purpose of your life is only to achieve salvation of God, then yes. Because all you do is to follow His Recipe to please Him. Ironically both the sheep and the wolves are absolutely convinced they are on the Righteous Path. In the end, as you have told us many times, you are basically doing what He wants, not what You want. You have become a slave of His wishes.

Edited March 2, 2006 by Sip

[aSoldier]

If the purpose of your life is only to achieve salvation of God, then yes. Because all you do is to follow His Recipe to please Him. Ironically both the sheep and the wolves are absolutely convinced they are on the Righteous Path. In the end, as you have told us many times, you are basically doing what He wants, not what You want. You have become a slave of His wishes.

 

We already have received salvation from Him. Serving God is the best privelage you could have. He gives you what the world cannot offer, and it is about what He wants, for His wishes are to love and bless you, if you let Him.

 

Jeremiah 29:11

For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

 

The last thing Christianity would be is slavery.

[Sip]

Jeremiah 29:11

For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

 

Isn't that what I said? Maybe you don't want to call it being His slaves but aren't you doing what he wants you to do?

[aSoldier]

Isn't that what I said?

 

No.

Edited March 2, 2006 by sSebB

[Sip]

Read them again

[aSoldier]

I did

[Sip]

Wow ... I'm honored you left the Lord's work for a few seconds and did what I asked! ... and I'm not kidding either.

[Yervant1]

Wow ... I'm honored you left the Lord's work for a few seconds and did what I asked! ... and I'm not kidding either.

Sip I also did go back and read it again. Wow you have some powers man, how about you and I starting an Evangalical movement on TV. You preach use your powers to convince people into making donations and I'll be the treasurer. Don't worry your share will be deposited into your account.

[Sasun]

If the purpose of your life is only to achieve salvation of God, then yes. Because all you do is to follow His Recipe to please Him. Ironically both the sheep and the wolves are absolutely convinced they are on the Righteous Path. In the end, as you have told us many times, you are basically doing what He wants, not what You want. You have become a slave of His wishes.

Sip, what you think you want is not really your wishes but the wishes of your ego. Your ego is not your real self, it is subject to whims of the mind, environmental influences, influences from your habits, prenatal influences, and Satanic influences. At the same time, a restless and unpurified mind thinks that it is your free will, while it is not. Free will is what inner wisdom tells you, and that is what God tells you. God gave you a choice to follow His word by searching for Him within you, or reject it. To think that those who follow God's words are slaves is ego's delusion.

[Sasun]

Actually quite the opposite. All it really takes is a little bit of independent thought and effort. If I see someone trying (or at least struggling) then that makes me happy. Not because I enjoy seeing others suffer, but because I enjoy watching humans trying to better themselves as opposed to rehashing the same old thought patterns, supersitions, and dogma that have plauged us for millenia

 

The reason I was unhappy above is because in either case, the sheep and the wolf both seem to follow the pack. I don't think we will ever have any progress if we all stuck to the pack. Of course I am NOT saying the pack is always wrong either ... just saying that neither a harmless follower nor a mad fanatic be

Sip, there are a few points regarding your view

 

1) You seem to be affected by how others think - that's not good. You should be able to be happy regardless. I don't mean to say that you are really unhappy, but it bothers you how others think, and that is not others' problem, it is a problem with you. There is no way you can change even a single individual in what you call a "pack", the solution lies within yourself. Learn to be happy under any outside conditions and you will be free (this applies to myself too)

 

2) You don't expect kindergarten children to come up with innovative ideas, so don't expect a follower of religion to have groundbreaking thoughts.

 

3) The purpose of religion is to reform people with certain teachings. For that the people MUST follow those teachings. If each individual reinvents the religion and individual rules for himself then there is no point for this religion to exist.

 

4) Having said the above point, in any path even though the path is the same, every follower walks his own way

[Sip]

1. I guess it's the professor in me

 

But to extend your point here, yes, I am affected by what others around me think. I think that is valid because after all, we do live in societies (and not just on islands by ourselves). On the other hand, many religious are affected by what they think God thinks. So which one is better?

 

2. Why not? I think ANY human is capable of innovation... even one at a very early age. At the very least, the training of the mind to innovate should start even before that!

 

3. Assuming the masses are morons that need to be reformed, yes. But why religion? Don't sociatal laws and fundamental moral teachings accomplish the same? Why must there necessarily be a religion to achieve reform? I agree that it is ONE way but it is certainly not the only way. As a very simple example, I am absolutely sure those who have never read the Bible can figure out on their own that lying and killing are bad things. Why pretend God made those rules up?

 

But again I think we have come to a fundamental difference of opinion here. My "ego", "id", whims, emotions, desires, wishes, etc ARE me. Those are what make me who I am and those are what make me unique. I think those are faaaar more attributes of a "soul" than other abstract and more "pure" things inside me that we may come up with. In other words, those are REAL attributes of me. So of course I do not want to see those things trivialized and ignored as mere side-effects of existence.

[Sip]

Sip I also did go back and read it again. Wow you have some powers man, how about you and I starting an Evangalical movement on TV. You preach use your powers to convince people into making donations and I'll be the treasurer. Don't worry your share will be deposited into your account.

 

You had me at "deposited"!

[Yervant1]

You had me at "deposited"!

I forgot to ask you the percentage that will make you happy. Also I give you the right to smack people on their forehead to get the devil out.

[Arpa]

You had me at "deposited"!

“Deposit”? Like some animals “deposit” their presence?

Hey, what about me?

I can convince little old ladies to send us their last luma for the glory…

Yervant, you say “evangelical”. I think you would be more successful if you were to preach another religion, like the one that promises 72 virgins up there.

The reason why we don’t see any one embracing so called Christianity anymore as opposed to droves embracing that other religion. What with virgin birth, resurrection, father god, son god and the spirit god, not to forget that other woman who is still a virgin all these centuries even after having half a dozen children!

I have no problem with the concept of the “messiah” being a messenger of the gods rather than a god by itself, Greco-Roman mythology. What’s wrong with that? Is it not the message rather than the messenger?? The message is good all in itself. Why do we have to insert unacceptable, and at times comical mythologies to have the impact! Mythology is good, it is amusing, I like it, see my threads about it. But let us let mythology be as a subject of amusement at cocktail parties.

There may have been a time when the average illiterate people would fall for all that gobble-di-gook, but that was before we learned that the world was not flat and some human remains and artifacts are millions of years old.

My apologies to all, but I cannot approach similar subjects with a straight face, as if we talking about the specific gravity of H2O.

Edited March 2, 2006 by Arpa

[Zartonk]

Is it not the message rather than the messenger?? The message is good all in itself.

 

Absolutely Arpa. I hope everyone reads this, because the ignorance of this fact is the source of much too many of the world's problems and hostilities.

[Yervant1]

“Deposit”? Like some animals “deposit” their presence?

Hey, what about me?

I can convince little old ladies to send us their last luma for the glory…

Yervant, you say “evangelical”. I think you would be more successful if you were to preach another religion, like the one that promises 72 virgins up there.

The reason why we don’t see any one embracing so called Christianity anymore as opposed to droves embracing that other religion. What with virgin birth, resurrection, father god, son god and the spirit god, not to forget that other woman who is still a virgin all these centuries even after having half a dozen children!

I have no problem with the concept of the “messiah” being a messenger of the gods rather than a god by itself, Greco-Roman mythology. What’s wrong with that? Is it not the message rather than the messenger?? The message is good all in itself. Why do we have to insert unacceptable, and at times comical mythologies to have the impact! Mythology is good, it is amusing, I like it, see my threads about it. But let us let mythology be as a subject of amusement at cocktail parties.

There may have been a time when the average illiterate people would fall for all that gobble-di-gook, but that was before we learned that the world was not flat and some human remains and artifacts are millions of years old.

My apologies to all, but I cannot approach similar subjects with a straight face, as if we talking about the specific gravity of H2O.

Arpa I don't think the other religion with 72 virgins will work, because they won't send any money and you can't fool them easily as the Christians.

How about we give you the position of holding the falling people after Sip smack them on their forehead. Since this job is not complicated you get only 10%.

[Arpa]

Arpa I don't think the other religion with 72 virgins will work, because they won't send any money and you can't fool them easily as the Christians.

How about we give you the position of holding the falling people after Sip smack them on their forehead. Since this job is not complicated you get only 10%.

No, no!

I protest!

With that 10% you are redusing me to an Hollywood talent agent.

On second thought, I would settle for 5 %. After all Mr. 5%, aka Galust Gubenkian did not make out so badly.

[Arpa]

Absolutely Arpa. I hope everyone reads this, because the ignorance of this fact is the source of much too many of the world's problems and hostilities.

Speaking of the “message”, read the Bible, no not that trashy book of HATE, but the New Testament, where Jesus said this;

Matt.5

[17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx...V2&byte=4393272

 

What he actually meant was that He had come to amend the message from that of hate, destruction, war and pestilence by a jealous, unforgiving , vindictively biased Jewhovah to a God for all the people, a God of love, peace and forgiveness for ALL of mankind.

Why would anyone need more idle talk!!??

In fact Jesus was a revolutionary (against Roman oppression of the time) in the true sense of the word, yet, knowing that He could not break it with physical force, he chose non-violent confrontation in the model of Gandhi and M.L. King. . They came much later.

Edited March 2, 2006 by Arpa