Arpa Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 (edited) Arpa, that's not fair. Not all teenagers are stereotypically thinking about sex all the time. At least not all the time. Some of my guy friends were/are more thinkers than the great teenage masses. Yeah, yeah. Whatever. Of course not. Neither did I dedicate my entire time to that That does not mean I did not leave time for sports, literature, music and arts, and life in general. Let us all "get a life" here on earth before we worry about that place up there. Who said; "Apres moi le deluge!!" Was it Louis XIV? Edited February 26, 2006 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 I am not sure of your gender. If I remember correctly you may have said that you are a boy, i.e male. And if I remember correctly, it was such a long time ago, at your age my main concern was how to get between the “knees” of a girl, (try it sometime and see how delicious it is) and not get down on my “knees” in a position of prayer. That is what seperates me from you. My main concern is God, whereas yours was sex. This is not meant in a judgemental way, but now do you see the differences between a Christian and a non-Christian? For God provides greater things than worldy pleasures, and only when the time is right (marriage) will I engage in sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 That is what seperates me from you. My main concern is God, whereas yours was sex. This is not meant in a judgemental way, but now do you see the differences between a Christian and a non-Christian? For God provides greater things than worldy pleasures, and only when the time is right (marriage) will I engage in sex. I hope Seb that you find your future wife and be happy forever. But what if for some reasons you don't get married, aren't you going to have sex ever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Arpa, you crack me up man. you are great. Anoushik jan, your male 'friends' are mostly your friends in hope for that someday when they are not just your friends. Seb, dont forget that your God only allows sex for procreation purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 So it is not arrogant of me to say if there were a God, that was as powerful as you God believers claim, that maybe he would have had a better way to tell of His wishes. The part about the lecture was obviously sarcasm. But my observation about prayer and conversing with God is a valid one. It is EXTREMELY arrogant to first of all claim one knows it all, that there is a super powerful God that created everything, and then make conversations and sometimes demands of that God. Hope this is clear. I don't get it. So you can be sarcastic about God who, from your point of view, could possibly exist though you don't know. You make various types of strong statements about believers, and after all this you don't think that you are arrogant. But some people humbly pray to God on their knees to talk to them and they are arrogant? Nope, I can't accept that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 That is what seperates me from you. My main concern is God, whereas yours was sex. This is not meant in a judgemental way, but now do you see the differences between a Christian and a non-Christian? For God provides greater things than worldy pleasures, and only when the time is right (marriage) will I engage in sex. I strongly believe that you are right. As a teenager I was not like you, I was like most teenagers ignoring God and going after all kinds of garbage including sexual pleasure. Please keep on your noble journey, those who boast of sexual life (even when they don't really have one) have nothing really to be proud of. Because no matter how good they are they can't be better than rabbits Don't make a mistake and follow their advise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 I strongly believe that you are right. As a teenager I was not like you, I was like most teenagers ignoring God and going after all kinds of garbage including sexual pleasure. ====== Thank you Sasun for coming to my rescue. Did I say I was not a virgin at that age? Did I say I had already gotten between...? Fantasizing about the opposite gender at that age is healthy. Fantasizing about life hereafter, well... not very healthy. That comes much, much later in life. Our Governor appears in TV ads advancing some kind of child helth insurance. Many of the scenarios portray children in super active situatiions, running amok in the house, creating pandemoniums. And the Governor closes his ads saying; "That is a healthy child" Woud you like your children to sit all day, contemplate their navels and wonder about religion, rather than "raise hell", so to speak? Woud you not wonder if something was the matter? Would you not rather have your teenager child play basketball than read the Bible 24 hours a day? I have children of my own, I know what I am talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 (edited) Thank you Sasun for coming to my rescue. Did I say I was not a virgin at that age? Did I say I had already gotten between...? Fantasizing about the opposite gender at that age is healthy. Fantasizing about life hereafter, well... not very healthy. That comes much, much later in life. Our Governor appears in TV ads advancing some kind of child helth insurance. Many of the scenarios portray children in super active situatiions, running amok in the house, creating pandemoniums. And the Governor closes his ads saying; "That is a healthy child" Woud you like your children to sit all day, contemplate their navels and wonder about religion, rather than "raise hell", so to speak? Woud you not wonder if something was the matter? Would you not rather have your teenager child play basketball than read the Bible 24 hours a day? I have children of my own, I know what I am talking about. I am an advocate of a balanced life in which spirituality and healthy lifestyle are a large part. Sexual fantasies are not part of that, no matter at what age. Sex is for procreation, not sexual fantasies. Fantasy is not necessary and is unhealty, it only makes matters worse by creating frustration, especially in teenagers. I want to see one person who can honestly tell me that he/she felt happy in fooling himself/herself with sexual fantasies. There is no such a thing as happiness in sex, it can never happen because you always want a lot more than what you can possibly get. Essentially, you can never be satisfied with sex. This is a simple philosophy yet most people fail to understand until life gives them a couple of slaps. For that reason it is wrong to give someone a bad advice that has to do with sex life. Edited February 26, 2006 by Sasun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 no Sasun, there will be a time in your life when you'll be crative with everything, including sex, and creativity first and formost starts with fantasy, if man kind did not fanesize then we wouldent be here today, everything, including again fantasy about sex, is God gevin ability for us! the creative kind, wont get borred in any aspect of the life we have to live here. think of it this way, for me, fantasy which I will put in same catigory as creativity, if i would say there should be none I rather not be alive, after all for me it would be a very booring life to live. even faith demands fantasy, fantasy, for lack of a better word, is essential for human kind to servive as a spesies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 I should say also, among other essential elements, sex is one of the important bulding blocks of a relationship beetwin man and a women, wont you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 (edited) I don't get it. So you can be sarcastic about God who, from your point of view, could possibly exist though you don't know. You make various types of strong statements about believers, and after all this you don't think that you are arrogant. But some people humbly pray to God on their knees to talk to them and they are arrogant? Nope, I can't accept that. Sasun, there is a BIG difference between me and "believers". I have ALWAYS maintained that I might be wrong. I have ALWAYS acknowledged there may well be a God. That makes me a truelly humble human being. What I denounce, and redicule, is the absurd notions of the "Christian God" which OBVIOUSLY (to anyone who has a slight bit of intellect) cannot possibly exist as some claim. Can there be a God? SURE. Is there a Christian God who is vengeful, sadistic, limited, and judgemental ... I HIGHLY doubt it. So do you see how I may redicule yet be humble and admit that I might be wrong? At the same time, do you see how those who adamantly just Know, are far more arrogant than I? Edited February 27, 2006 by Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 I should say also, among other essential elements, sex is one of the important bulding blocks of a relationship beetwin man and a women, wont you agree? It is also an integral part of humanity. To ignore it, supress it, or try to combat nature (yes NATURE, not God), is to go against what it really is to be human. Without sex we are reduced to nothing but animals who only copulate for procreation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 ... but now do you see the differences between a Christian and a non-Christian? For God provides greater things than worldy pleasures, and only when the time is right (marriage) will I engage in sex. Not to rain on the God parade but Allah is the same way. Actually, Islam is a LOT more strict on the subject than Christianity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Sasun, there is a BIG difference between me and "believers". I have ALWAYS maintained that I might be wrong. I have ALWAYS acknowledged there may well be a God. That makes me a truelly humble human being. I haven't known too many humble people who say they are humble What I denounce, and redicule, is the absurd notions of the "Christian God" which OBVIOUSLY (to anyone who has a slight bit of intellect) cannot possibly exist as some claim. Can there be a God? SURE. Is there a Christian God who is vengeful, sadistic, limited, and judgemental ... I HIGHLY doubt it. But whoever said that Christian God is sadistic and all that ??? I don't understand, are you arguing with Seb? Ludwig? Djrak? Anahid? Who? I don't see anyone saying that. So do you see how I may redicule yet be humble and admit that I might be wrong? At the same time, do you see how those who adamantly just Know, are far more arrogant than I? I really don't see that. I would not exactly call you the most humble person in HyeForum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Without sex we are reduced to nothing but animals who only copulate for procreation. But I would say you are number one in HyeForum with putting forward the strangest ideas. I didn't know that sex is what makes us humans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 (edited) I really don't see that. I would not exactly call you the most humble person in HyeForum I also don't see why you are defending Christianity. I wouldn't exactly lable you as one of those either. So I guess that makes us even Actually, many of the things you have been saying should be just as insulting to many Christians as what people like me say: Notions of reincarnation, multiple Gods, spirituality, multiple levels of existence, and the like ... But regardless of how you choose to label me, the fact remains that I maintain my limits while sSebB for example, just seems to "Know". The fact that I point out the facts about me doesn't make me any less humble. It just makes me a realist. Which is what I have ALWAYS been! Edited February 27, 2006 by Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 no Sasun, there will be a time in your life when you'll be crative with everything, including sex, and creativity first and formost starts with fantasy, if man kind did not fanesize then we wouldent be here today, everything, including again fantasy about sex, is God gevin ability for us! the creative kind, wont get borred in any aspect of the life we have to live here. think of it this way, for me, fantasy which I will put in same catigory as creativity, if i would say there should be none I rather not be alive, after all for me it would be a very booring life to live. even faith demands fantasy, fantasy, for lack of a better word, is essential for human kind to servive as a spesies Let me make it clear... Arpa is talking about fantasing in the air. I don't see anything creative there really. If you are talking about sexual indulgance it is not creative really. What exactly can one create? There is no lasting relationship between man and woman who indulge in sex, sooner or later they start hating each other, though movies and romances will tell you otherwise. This is based on my real life understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 I also don't see why you are defending Christianity. I wouldn't exactly lable you as one of those either. So I guess that makes us even Actually, many of the things you have been saying should be just as insulting to many Christians as what people like me say: Notions of reincarnation, multiple Gods, spirituality, multiple levels of existence, and the like ... But regardless of how you choose to label me, the fact remains that I maintain my limits while sSebB for example, just seems to "Know". The fact that I point out the facts about me doesn't make me any less humble. It just makes me a realist. Which is what I have ALWAYS been! Actually I don't mean to label you anyway, it just stroke me that you called praying people arrogant... anyway, as far as I am concerned, I don't really defend Christianity as most people know it. I absolutely disagree with some theological ideas of the various churches, such as eternal hell, one life only where some people are born sick and some die after a few days, and all the horrible inequalities. However, I would hate to ridicule somebodies beliefs no matter how adamant I may be in disagreeing with their views. For that reason most Christians do not get offended of my views. For example, Seb seems to be a fantastic young fellow. I have a lot of respect for him, but I am sure we hold some diametrically opposite views. For example, he thinks Christianity is the only true religion while I don't think so. But neither one of us is offended of such disagreements. The trouble that I see in HyeForum is not all beliefs are tolerated. Why the hell can't I be sure in something 100% and at the same time be tolerated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 The trouble that I see in HyeForum is not all beliefs are tolerated.... As stated before, that's more of a side product of religion. Religion by its nature demands intolerance for opposing views. That's why when we have some ultra religious new members show up, they almost immediately start butting heads with the likes of me (and other members) who will NOT tolerate insults and intolerance. If someone shows up saying they know better, people like me will demand to know why they think that is the case. And answers like "oh because I just know", or "because of my faith", or "because Jesus said so" will then, undoubtedly be met with redicule and dismissal (at least by me anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Sasun, before we go back into the loop of you telling me I am being intolerant, I am NOT the one who shows up claiming I know all the answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 ... will NOT tolerate insults and intolerance. That sounds like a fair statement, but can you point out somebody in the recent past who has insulted somebody or been intolerant othwerwise? If someone shows up saying they know better, people like me will demand to know why they think that is the case. And answers like "oh because I just know", or "because of my faith", or "because Jesus said so" will then, undoubtedly be met with redicule and dismissal (at least by me anyway). So somebody makes a statment that you don't agree for whatever reason, and you ridicule them. Well, I am sorry, but it IS intolerance. Tolerance means civilized disagreement, insulting someone because of their views is not civilized. Why do people have to abide by your personal principles? Why is anyone accountable to you concerning their beliefs? Suppose I claim I know everything (not that I do). Does it hurt you in anyway that you have to insult me? Why can't I just be tolerated? Is there a censorship in place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 I'm glad you asked that Sasun (again!). Instead of trying to answer it myself, I will just quote from Bill Maher as I think he said it better than I can: "What's so hard about saying I DON'T KNOW? Of course there are questions that plague all of us. How did we get here? What happens when we die? Is there a heaven? Am I on the list? Who let the dogs out?" "The values of western civilization are better... Rule of law is better than theocracy and autocracy. Equality of the sexes, better. Protection of minorities, better. Free speech, better. Free elections, better. Free appliances with a large purchase, better." "Don't get so tolerant that you tolerate intolerance. -- Bill Maher" ---- We have had these discussions about art, music, and other disciplines ... what constitues art? What is art? What makes good art? Why is some art valued more than other art? Why doesn't the crap a dog leaves on the side of the street usually qualify as art? Well ... the same answers can also be extended to matters of faith. Why shouldn't certain things be tolerated? Because there are things that are clearly BETTER. You seem to be advocating that ANYTHING should be accepted as valid. Of course that is not how it is in real life. And I know what your next question will be ... who gets to decide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 So somebody makes a statment that you don't agree for whatever reason ... And to clarify, it is not just "whatever reason" ... sometimes there are VALID reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 (edited) "Don't get so tolerant that you tolerate intolerance. -- Bill Maher" I absolutely agree with this, and that is exactly what I am trying to do I simply fail to see how somebody's assertion that they know it all is intolerant. Who exactly is being not tolerated by such a statement? Actually, I don't recall anyone saying such a statement. But as far as our situation is concerned some people have said God exists. In what way is this intolerant? You seem to be advocating that ANYTHING should be accepted as valid. Of course that is not how it is in real life. And I know what your next question will be ... who gets to decide Every opinion, philosophy and religious view should be tolerated, not necessarily agreed to. Tolerated in the sense that the person who holds views should not be insulted (not to mention burned or stoned). You can say that he/she is wrong, but you cannot say that he/she is stupid or worthless, or should leave the forum... Edited February 27, 2006 by Sasun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Every opinion, philosophy and religious view should be tolerated, not necessarily agreed to. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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