Aaron Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 (edited) Ok, this is part 2 of the message I started writing yesterday, mostly intended for Elle (with whom I agree on most points) and Ashot (with whom I have a few differences of opinion). Sorry for making this Levon-Serge comparison long. I’m also not in favor of handing back Artsakh or ceding territories! I’m only going to speak about FOREIGN POLICY here since I think all of today’s major Armenian politicians and parties are identical when it comes to internal issues, perhaps with the exception of ARF, which has a socialist approach to problems, instead of the prevailing liberal with all others. Anyways, I was saying that Levon is of the opinion that he needs to solve the Artsakh issue in order to move Armenia forward. If Robert and Serge (and late Vazgen Sarkisian) see the best guarantee of Armenia’s survival, prosperous development, and overall success in its economic and military might, Levon’s position is different: for the first president, the solution to Armenia’s centuries old problem of national security is the establishment of good relations with all of its immediate neighbors. In his view … “ No need to compete with your neighbors, which are bigger, stronger demographically, and larger by territory anyways i.e. be in good terms with them, don’t bring up the past, move on and avoid confrontation, don’t aim to be a power house but rather a stable house without issues with anyone. If they assure you that Armenian communities will be physically safe within their borders, agree! The way it’s done with the Armenians of Istanbul, and much better than that. True, Armenians there will only fit in as a minority, they will not have real and complete freedom, but their existence will not be threatened. They will not assimilate with time since a republic of Armenia will exist and will be strong culturally and economically. The case of Nakhichevan cannot be cited as a precedent since Armenia didn’t have much influence on Armenians there at the time of their assimilation, everything was decided in Moscow and Baku. If the Artsax, and by extension the Javakhk, Armenians are guaranteed cultural and a minimum of political autonomy within Azerbaijan and Georgia through international documents and treaties, then their long term existence as “vratsahay”s and “adrbeyjanahay”s will be assured for ever and they will not face the threat of extinction. In sum, we Armenians do not demand more lands, we just want you not to harass us and respect the minimum set of cultural rights. Accept the fact that we will live in your country as communities, that we will not assimilate (but simply integrate), and that we will demand that you actually show commitment (financially, politically) to avoid our assimilation with the majority of your population. This should not offend your national pride! We’ll live within your borders even if that means not being completely Armenian, but rather Azeri-Armenian or Georgian-Armenian. If you offer us something similar to what Switzerland offers its Italian-speaking minority, a situation resembling that of the Finnish speaking Aland islands within Sweden, Catalonia within Spain, Quebec within Canada, or Bavaria within Germany, we’ll be fine with it … and we’ll live in peace and harmony just like in Europe. That way, I can fulfill the promises of a better life to my people. I will not have to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on my military of 60 000, I’ll only keep a small professional army of 10 000, and money will go to where it matters: education, health, infrastructure, tourism, etc. In order to keep my army in good shape, I will not have to make shady deals with oligarchs, arms merchants, and mobsters, hide millions of dollars from the official budget and divert them secretly towards the army (because war requires its own rules), only to be accused of robbing my own country and being corrupt ... the way it's happening with Kocharian and Sarkisian now. I will not need an army since I’ll be fine with all my neighbors, nor will they have any intention to attack me or to even hurt me … I’ll be a neutral and liberal country loved by everyone. No problems, no issues, no fedayis, no revolutions, no fear from Turks, no Russian protection, no massacres … for the first time in millenniums, security will not be an issue we’ll have to think about and we’ll become a NORMAL country, empty of fear and healed from paranoia. ” This is my understanding of Ter-Petrosian’s vision for Armenia’s future. I formed my opinion by observing ANM’s (Levon’s political party) official ideology at the time it was in power. My interpretation is also shaped by Ter-Petrosian’s “war or peace” article from 1997, as well as by the book written by his right arm/key advisor Jirair Libaridian - “The Challenge of Statehood”. So if you're going to choose between Levon and Serge, you will have to choose between their visions of Armenian foreign policy. Once again, on anything related to internal issues, there is NO DIFFERENCE between them, they are exactly from the same "breed"! All their accusations (from both sides) about one keeping the country in "cold and dark days", having masterminded October 27, being corrupt, having destroyed Armenia's infrastructure, etc, are primitive pre-electoral tricks, cheap political "priom"s as they say in Armenia! What is my view on all this? In an ideal world, that’s how things should be (Levon's vision) and Europe is the perfect example of such a successful system … but bottom line, I think our first president is too much of an idealist. Kocharian, in contrast, is a much more pragmatic president. He can separate what SHOULD be done from what CAN actually be done. He also knows that we’re not at the time in history when this “pink” vision can materialize. Independence from the USSR gave the Caucasus republics that opportunity … but by 1992, a year after, it was already too late to think about its feasibility. Blood, and large amounts, had already been shed, political processes had taken a momentum of their own that moved the Caucasus people away from each other and instilled bitter feelings in each of them … until new and irreversible realities emerged as a result: independent republics of Artsax, Abkhazia, and South Ossetia. When that happens, acting as if things are still normal and trusting each other with kind words doesn’t help … only time heals such wounds. European countries didn’t negotiate or compromise with each other during WW1 and WW2, harmony and peace became the norm after a balance of forces was reached between all of them and war was no longer seen as a solution. A. Edited February 10, 2008 by Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Ashot, «անհնարին» բառը առանց ը-ի է գրվում Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Anchap shnorhakalem Sulamita jan - Lava? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 (edited) Ok, this is part 2 of the message I started writing yesterday, mostly intended for Elle (with whom I agree on most points) and Ashot (with whom I have a few differences of opinion). Sorry for making this Levon-Serge comparison long. I’m also not in favor of handing back Artsakh or ceding territories! I’m only going to speak about FOREIGN POLICY here since I think all of today’s major Armenian politicians and parties are identical when it comes to internal issues, perhaps with the exception of ARF, which has a socialist approach to problems, instead of the prevailing liberal with all others. Anyways, I was saying that Levon is of the opinion that he needs to solve the Artsakh issue in order to move Armenia forward. If Robert and Serge (and late Vazgen Sarkisian) see the best guarantee of Armenia’s survival, prosperous development, and overall success in its economic and military might, Levon’s position is different: for the first president, the solution to Armenia’s centuries old problem of national security is the establishment of good relations with all of its immediate neighbors. In his view … “ No need to compete with your neighbors, which are bigger, stronger demographically, and larger by territory anyways i.e. be in good terms with them, don’t bring up the past, move on and avoid confrontation, don’t aim to be a power house but rather a stable house without issues with anyone. If they assure you that Armenian communities will be physically safe within their borders, agree! The way it’s done with the Armenians of Istanbul, and much better than that. True, Armenians there will only fit in as a minority, they will not have real and complete freedom, but their existence will not be threatened. They will not assimilate with time since a republic of Armenia will exist and will be strong culturally and economically. The case of Nakhichevan cannot be cited as a precedent since Armenia didn’t have much influence on Armenians there at the time of their assimilation, everything was decided in Moscow and Baku. If the Artsax, and by extension the Javakhk, Armenians are guaranteed cultural and a minimum of political autonomy within Azerbaijan and Georgia through international documents and treaties, then their long term existence as “vratsahay”s and “adrbeyjanahay”s will be assured for ever and they will not face the threat of extinction. In sum, we Armenians do not demand more lands, we just want you not to harass us and respect the minimum set of cultural rights. Accept the fact that we will live in your country as communities, that we will not assimilate (but simply integrate), and that we will demand that you actually show commitment (financially, politically) to avoid our assimilation with the majority of your population. This should not offend your national pride! We’ll live within your borders even if that means not being completely Armenian, but rather Azeri-Armenian or Georgian-Armenian. If you offer us something similar to what Switzerland offers its Italian-speaking minority, a situation resembling that of the Finnish speaking Aland islands within Sweden, Catalonia within Spain, Quebec within Canada, or Bavaria within Germany, we’ll be fine with it … and we’ll live in peace and harmony just like in Europe. That way, I can fulfill the promises of a better life to my people. I will not have to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on my military of 60 000, I’ll only keep a small professional army of 10 000, and money will go to where it matters: education, health, infrastructure, tourism, etc. In order to keep my army in good shape, I will not have to make shady deals with oligarchs, arms merchants, and mobsters, hide millions of dollars from the official budget and divert them secretly towards the army (because war requires its own rules), only to be accused of robbing my own country and being corrupt ... the way it's happening with Kocharian and Sarkisian now. I will not need an army since I’ll be fine with all my neighbors, nor will they have any intention to attack me or to even hurt me … I’ll be a neutral and liberal country loved by everyone. No problems, no issues, no fedayis, no revolutions, no fear from Turks, no Russian protection, no massacres … for the first time in millenniums, security will not be an issue we’ll have to think about and we’ll become a NORMAL country, empty of fear and healed from paranoia. ” This is my understanding of Ter-Petrosian’s vision for Armenia’s future. I formed my opinion by observing ANM’s (Levon’s political party) official ideology at the time it was in power. My interpretation is also shaped by Ter-Petrosian’s “war or peace” article from 1997, as well as by the book written by his right arm/key advisor Jirair Libaridian - “The Challenge of Statehood”. So if you're going to choose between Levon and Serge, you will have to choose between their visions of Armenian foreign policy. Once again, on anything related to internal issues, there is NO DIFFERENCE between them, they are exactly from the same "breed"! All their accusations (from both sides) about one keeping the country in "cold and dark days", having masterminded October 27, being corrupt, having destroyed Armenia's infrastructure, etc, are primitive pre-electoral tricks, cheap political "priom"s as they say in Armenia! What is my view on all this? In an ideal world, that’s how things should be (Levon's vision) and Europe is the perfect example of such a successful system … but bottom line, I think our first president is too much of an idealist. Kocharian, in contrast, is a much more pragmatic president. He can separate what SHOULD be done from what CAN actually be done. He also knows that we’re not at the time in history when this “pink” vision can materialize. Independence from the USSR gave the Caucasus republics that opportunity … but by 1992, a year after, it was already too late to think about its feasibility. Blood, and large amounts, had already been shed, political processes had taken a momentum of their own that moved the Caucasus people away from each other and instilled bitter feelings in each of them … until new and irreversible realities emerged as a result: independent republics of Artsax, Abkhazia, and South Ossetia. When that happens, acting as if things are still normal and trusting each other with kind words doesn’t help … only time heals such wounds. European countries didn’t negotiate or compromise with each other during WW1 and WW2, harmony and peace became the norm after a balance of forces was reached between all of them and war was no longer seen as a solution. A. Levon is lost in his on illusionary world with that kind of thinking. Let's look at the present day Akhalkalaki and javakh Armenian population. Do you guys know in what kind of situation these Armenians live today? Any Armenian poor rural district/village is 100 times in a better condition than any area of Javakh and Akhalkalaki. They're constantly being harassed by the Georgian authorities. Intentionally, they had number of Armenian schools shut down in the past (there are still Armenian schools that work, but the situation is just horrible) because Tbilisi wants to make sure that it keeps the Armenian minority powerless, in poverty and under check for the fear of 2nd Artsaxkh scenario in southern Georgia. They treat them like sh*t, destroy Armenian built churches or carve up their own Georgian scripts to make it look like Georgian churches. They situation in what is southern Georgia reminds me of what it was like living in Yerevan in 1989-1994. I have no idea why the hell Levon would claim that Armenians should live in harmony with the neighbors. I wish that was the case, but let's look at the reality. Didn't we learn anything from what our fate was like living among different minorities and Turks under the Ottoman Empire? Why mix with others? What happened with sticking together in order to make sure that we won't be faced with another Artsax or Genocide situation? At least if similar situation takes place, we can have enough people to be able to defend ourselves and perhaps be able to protect and make sure that no genocide occurs. The genocide could have at least been prevented in some way (or the number could have been less) if Armenians didn't live in every single part of the Ottoman Empire...erbek miatsats chenk exel and that's one of the reasons why we lost so many people...if we lived in our historical lands under the Ottoman Empire, we could have at least pushed back the Turkish troops during the genocide. I'm talking about the way the Greeks were organized and not scattered around the Empire who managed to stand before the Turkish aggression. We couldn't even do that because we were all over the Empire. Why do Armenians have the habit of mixing with other minorities..and I'm not talking about marriages, but simply living among other minorities in the region (not diaspora)....it's so annoying...no wonder we keep having the same fate over and over again. This is why I say that Levon is wrong with that type of assumption. Look at what happened in Yougoslavia when so many ethnic groups lived together. History has proven that hardly ever you put two or more ethnicities together and they don't clash at some point. I'm against the mix of minorities because it has never worked for us. I would prefer Kocharyan's more pragmatic outlook rather than Levon's illusionary world. Artsaxsis live very peacefuly among themselves nw, no need to bring any Azeris back. The same Artsax conflict will occur in 20 years from now if any Azeris are allowed to come back...so the same cycle will go on and on. Also, I'm glad that there were no significan number of ethnic minorities in Armenia because we didn't face with clashes in any way. Also, I think that Armenia never really attracted large number of Jewish minorities like in other parts of the SU because they knew very well that Armenia would be the only country in SU where they wouldn't succeed in holding high posts in the government or getting ahead of the Armenians themselves .... The only way Artsax should be lost is if Azeris attack and they push us back. I'm not claiming that we will loose if that happens, but I'm saying that no compromise should take place. They want it, they should come and fight....then it should be determined who will have what. Maybe that will give us an opportunity to either push them further into Azeriland or capture Nakhichevan. Simply giving an enemy piece of your territory is not only foolish, but simply does not make any sense. Any politican that does such a thing, isn't a politician....he's a moron! Edited February 11, 2008 by elle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Vazgen Manukyan promises to cut the profit tax Armenian presidential candidate, leader of the National-Democratic Union (NDU) Vazgen Manukian stated in Yerevan today that in case he is elected, he will cut down the rate for profit tax from the present 20% to 15%. “We understand that in a short-term perspective this will have negative influence on the budget proceeds. However, in a year we will witness more intensive economic growth,” Vazgen Manukian stated, presenting his economic program. The candidate also noted that it is necessary to cancel the present order of collection of teh value-added tax on the border from products, which have not been realized yet. asked about the struggle against shadow economy, Vazgen Manukian noted that “the peculiarity of the shadow sector of Armenia, which makes, according to certain data, up to 50% from the GDP, is its interlocking with authority structures, and against this very phenomenon it is necessary to struggle in the first place.” Public Radio of Armenia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 6 international and 39 local organizations to observe the elections on February 19 Six international and 39 local organizations have registered at the Central Electoral Commission (CEC) to observe the presidential elections of February 19. The international organizations include: the OSCE Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights and the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly, the Commonwealth of Independent States and the CIS Interparliamentary Assembly, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe and the European Parliament. More than 14 thousand observers are included in 39 local organizations. The “Choice is yours” NGO will have 4,010 representatives, “The Open Society Institute” – 1,606, “Erebuni Centre for Community Development” – 758, the “The Centre for Legal and Social Assistance to the Young” – 647, The “National Youth Council of Armenia” – 641, the “Justice and Law” – 616, the “Civic Academy – Centre” – 595, the “Revival and Progress” – 455. Public Radio of Armenia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 OYP LEADER DOES NOT RULE OUT ALLIANCE Presidential candidate Arthur Baghdasarian doesn't rule out alliances in the first and second rounds. He considers oppositionists' alliance a dire political necessity. Asked whether the OYP might ally with Levon Ter-Petrossian, Baghdasarian said, “Negotiations are underway. I think Armenia lacks two-round elections.” “We have already considered Levon Ter-Petrossian's alliance with our team and vice versa. And yet, it is up to people to decide. I am not longing for the second place. I run for presidency. I am confident that I shall run in the second round. My contender will be known in the course of time,” Arthur Baghdasarian said. Arthur Baghdasarian says currently his supporters outnumber 100 000. “Naturally, as a citizen and political figure, I cannot endanger these people and ignore their stance.” Therefore, according to the OYP Leader, each alliance should be warranted and favourable for both the country and its people. Anyway, the two forces under question will surely join efforts in the struggle against election fraud. Baghdasarian says Government's candidate must not necessarily appear in the second round. He also spoke of the recent death threats. According to the Police, Baghdasarian had not produced proofs of real threats. “Do they want to see me dead to believe my words. For example, we state that the Police forbade people to attend the Ashtarak rally while the Police refutes the information and demands proofs.” A1Plus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 On February 12 over 40-50 armed men broke into Christ Gasparian’s office. Gasparian was severely beaten. To remind, Christ is the son of prematurely deceased Manuk Gasparian, Leader of the Democratic Way Party (ZhUK). “We learnt about the incident from Christ Gasparian’s colleagues who didn’t want to give their names. “Everything happened in a twinkling of an eye. All of a sudden over 40-50 armed men intruded into the office and began beating Christ with empty bottles. Immediately afterwards, they took flight,” they said. Minutes later Gasparian was taken to hospital where he was rendered medical aid. “I tried to intervene and help Christ but they threatened me with a gun just on the doorway,” said one of Gasparian’s friends. “I wanted to protect Christ with my body as I am a stout man and could resist the blows. But after hitting me on the head they forced me out,” said the other. “We do not know the reasons for the incident. They hardly uttered a word. They only kept railing at us. Christ recognized some of them.” To note, Manuk Gasparian had announced support for presidential candidate Levon Ter-Petrossian before his untimely death. Public Radio of Armenia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 RAFFI HOVANNISSIAN SECONDS LEVON TER-PETROSSIAN The “Heritage” Party will back Armenia’s First President Levon Ter-Petrossian at the presidential election scheduled for February 19, 2008. The Party Board made the decision on February 11 through an open vote. The “Heritage” Party calls on the Armenian people “to vote for presidential candidate Levon Ter-Petrossian during the upcoming presidential election which is to serve the interests of the state and people.” “We bear full responsibility for the decision as the Council empowered the Board to make decisions, “Heritage” member Vardan Khachatrian said today. “We couldn’t simply hold a passive stance at the election. Our decision is well-grounded. Levon Ter-Petrossian is the only candidate enjoying public feedback. The recent large-scale rallies testify to this belief and had a direct influence on our decision,” said Spokesman for the Heritage Party Hovsep Khurshudian. “We haven’t agreed on some major points, for example the Artsax conflict resolution. Besides, we have ideological differences. We shall soon convene a sitting to consider these issues,” added Vardan Khachatrian. “I think that Levon Ter-Petrossian is capable of overthrowing the power and bringing about changes in the system. That’s why the authorities wage a smear campaign against Levon Ter-Petrossian by all TV Companies,” he said. In reply to A1+’s question why “Heritage” Leader Raffi Hovannissian didn’t make public the party’s decision, Vardan Khachatrian said, “As you know, Raffi Hovannissian is very busy participating in various meetings on an international level. By the way, Levon Ter-Petrossian’s team will learn about our decision from mass media. The Party has decided to share its stance with the public and then inform political parties, centers, etc.” “We do not nurse expectations from the alliance. Like our society we long for changes which have become a must in the country,” Hovsep Khurshudian said in answer to a reporter. A1Plus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Eurasianet.org website covering the Armenian elections. http://www.eurasianet.org/armenia08/index.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Levon is lost in his on illusionary world with that kind of thinking. Let's look at the present day Akhalkalaki and javakh Armenian population. Do you guys know in what kind of situation these Armenians live today? Any Armenian poor rural district/village is 100 times in a better condition than any area of Javakh and Akhalkalaki. They're constantly being harassed by the Georgian authorities. Intentionally, they had number of Armenian schools shut down in the past (there are still Armenian schools that work, but the situation is just horrible) because Tbilisi wants to make sure that it keeps the Armenian minority powerless, in poverty and under check for the fear of 2nd Artsaxkh scenario in southern Georgia. They treat them like sh*t, destroy Armenian built churches or carve up their own Georgian scripts to make it look like Georgian churches. They situation in what is southern Georgia reminds me of what it was like living in Yerevan in 1989-1994. I have no idea why the hell Levon would claim that Armenians should live in harmony with the neighbors. I wish that was the case, but let's look at the reality. Didn't we learn anything from what our fate was like living among different minorities and Turks under the Ottoman Empire? Why mix with others? What happened with sticking together in order to make sure that we won't be faced with another Artsax or Genocide situation? At least if similar situation takes place, we can have enough people to be able to defend ourselves and perhaps be able to protect and make sure that no genocide occurs. The genocide could have at least been prevented in some way (or the number could have been less) if Armenians didn't live in every single part of the Ottoman Empire...erbek miatsats chenk exel and that's one of the reasons why we lost so many people...if we lived in our historical lands under the Ottoman Empire, we could have at least pushed back the Turkish troops during the genocide. I'm talking about the way the Greeks were organized and not scattered around the Empire who managed to stand before the Turkish aggression. We couldn't even do that because we were all over the Empire. Why do Armenians have the habit of mixing with other minorities..and I'm not talking about marriages, but simply living among other minorities in the region (not diaspora)....it's so annoying...no wonder we keep having the same fate over and over again. This is why I say that Levon is wrong with that type of assumption. Look at what happened in Yougoslavia when so many ethnic groups lived together. History has proven that hardly ever you put two or more ethnicities together and they don't clash at some point. I'm against the mix of minorities because it has never worked for us. I would prefer Kocharyan's more pragmatic outlook rather than Levon's illusionary world. Artsaxsis live very peacefuly among themselves nw, no need to bring any Azeris back. The same Artsax conflict will occur in 20 years from now if any Azeris are allowed to come back...so the same cycle will go on and on. Also, I'm glad that there were no significan number of ethnic minorities in Armenia because we didn't face with clashes in any way. Also, I think that Armenia never really attracted large number of Jewish minorities like in other parts of the SU because they knew very well that Armenia would be the only country in SU where they wouldn't succeed in holding high posts in the government or getting ahead of the Armenians themselves .... The only way Artsax should be lost is if Azeris attack and they push us back. I'm not claiming that we will loose if that happens, but I'm saying that no compromise should take place. They want it, they should come and fight....then it should be determined who will have what. Maybe that will give us an opportunity to either push them further into Azeriland or capture Nakhichevan. Simply giving an enemy piece of your territory is not only foolish, but simply does not make any sense. Any politican that does such a thing, isn't a politician....he's a moron! My exact thoughts as well!!!!! I don't trust Levon either! Wasn't he the one who almost sold us to the Turks? Or he was kissing ass to the Turks and on the Turks' behalf NOT ARMENIANS' behalf. Maybe Kocharian wasn't perfect but he was ALL FOR ARMENIA and not living in a dillusionary world. I also wish that Serge will win but God forbid that Levon will win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Sorry Ashot, I don't agree with you on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVO Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 mnats 10 or Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munch Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 anchap hetaqrqir e ayn iroghutyun@, vory teghi e unenum ays orerin Hayastanum: Aynpisi tpavorutyun e, kartses azgi mej haytnvel en arnaxum xmber, ovqer patrast en mek@ndmisht vochnchatsnel, te irenc ev te aryan gnov kertats petakanutyun@: Miak huysn im azgi sar@ ev hangist datoghutyunn e, vor@ cavoq srti chem tesnum: Levon Ter-Petrosian, Serge Sarkisian, Robert Kocharian et al. hangist togheq mez! Apreq, kereq, xmeq! Qef Areq!!! bayc togheq vor gone menq dandagh bayc hastatakam zargacnenq mer Hayreniq@ bari ev drakan litsqerov. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 mnats 10 or Was he threatening the policemen? LOL Asuma mnat 10 ev kpatasxanek es ararkneri hamar Since when is it a crime to protest anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 mnats 10 or Xosatsoghi vichak@ mihat nayek, narkaman, alkagoliki mek@, note:how he was holding the cigarette, claiming that Levon is tuyn tarax, yet you can see the tuyn and tarax just bursting out of his face... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Was he threatening the policemen? LOL Asuma mnat 10 ev kpatasxanek es ararkneri hamar smile.gif Since when is it a crime to protest anything? Yes Elle jan, indeed he was threatening the police, because the superior courts in Armenia work very good, and the militants have no right to be part of the crowd to hold posters, what theres not enough people on Seljuk's side now he has the police do the work of the civilians? It's just absurd what they are doing... it's very funny too!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVO Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Ashot jan the narkaman is not running to be a president, but this brings up memories, very sad and frightening memories Ոստիկան: Ձեր մարդիկ խափանում էին երթևեկությունը... ԼՏՊ: Էդ Ձեր վերսիանա, 10 օր հետո ուրիշ վերսիա կլինի: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 LTP did some worse things when faced with strong opposition then what Serge is doing right now. For example, he banned an entire party and jailed its leaders under charges of terrorism (?) and even worse than that, he sent the army out to "quell" Vazgen Manukyan's opposition during the 1996 sham of an election. Really ironic that he is complaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 no matter what he does, still he is very scary for them!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVO Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Mi hat el video 96 @ntrutyuneri masin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munch Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Kardzum em dzezanic shadern Amerikaits en:Hetevabar ev Zarmanum em dzer qnnarkumneri vra. mek@ Sergei Rachmaninoffin Seljuk e asum, myus@ Levonin Qor aselov storacnum... Cheq kardzum vor jamanakn e mek meki hargel ev sirel? Ayspes vor gnac, shutov aystegh el mek meki kanpatveq. Bac togheq Levon Ter-Petrosianin. Na el e mard. Na el uni @ntaniq. Uni sirogh kin, tgha ev tornik. Na Hay e, isk nra serundner@, haj en ev bolor mer nakhararner@. Sergei Sarkisian@ nuynpes Hay e. Isk ov vor hay e! Na mern e!!! Ketse hayutiun@!!! P.S. Avo indz shat dur ekav qo Avatar@ Ov e nkarum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 munch jan, hamamitem qez het... bolornel hayen, havata yerp vor anunnerovenq xosum parzapes menq kritiknerenq - ovel vor lini hayreniqi naxagah@, meka mian iranq chen vor Hayastan@ lavatsnumen, zhoghovurditsela shat ban kaxvats, te iranq inchqanen uzum arachadimel!!!... nents vor mersiner amotanqi hamar, bayts menak chases vor duel kritsikavats anel che sirum!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 (edited) A fight breaks out at the Levon's rally. Inch mexka et mard@. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=relat...p;v=Ro6qGv7WaDg Another clip... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX1LwBId34Y...feature=related A funny clip, but it gets sad at the end. Edited February 14, 2008 by elle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 (edited) Armenian scenario 14:02 | 07/ 02/ 2008 Moscow. (Vyacheslav Nikonov for RIA Novosti) - On February 19, a head of state will be elected in what is for us a friendly and very important country. The elections in Armenia are very similar to those Russia will hold in March. The successor of the current president will run for the top position; he is being opposed by representatives of the former government, and his long standing opponents. As in Russia, the current government's nominee - Prime Minister Serzh Sarkisian - has every chance of success. As in Russia, the popularity of the current government in Armenia rests on economic success. When Robert Kocharian's team came to power ten years ago Armenia was in a desperate position. It had suffered several years of economic dislocation, absence of electricity and heating. Today, Armenia, a country with no energy resources or any other tangible natural resources, has one of the world's most dynamic economies. Its economy grew by 13.6% last year, one of the fastest rates in the world. But statistics as such are of little interest to the voters. What matters for them is how those statistics reflect their well-being. During the past year, average incomes increased by 24.7%, while inflation did not exceed the Russian old dream rate of 6%. Last year's parliamentary elections testified to serious public support for the current government. The ruling Republican Party, led by Sarkisian, together with its ally and rival Prosperous Armenia, headed by Gagik Tsarukian, received more than half of all votes and two thirds of seats in parliament. Now this alliance has shored up its power even further - at the presidential elections Tsarukian will support Sarkisian. This partnership is as hard hitting as that between Vladimir Putin and Dmitry Medvedev in Russia. The latest polls give Sarkisian 47.5% of all votes, which are likely to guarantee his victory in the first round. Today, Yerevan looks like an enormous construction site. The prime minister and his political consultants do not have to ponder over election scenarios - Sarkisian is travelling all around the country, and telling his compatriots about ambitious plans for spreading the gas network, road and house construction, and the eradication of poverty. He does not need a detailed program, and has drafted a short document on the consolidation of statehood and promotion of the principles of justice. Sarkisian cannot be accused of weakness or lack of experience - before heading the government, he served in various positions in security-related ministries, and his name is associated with military victories in Artsax. Relations with Russia and the West are a big part of the election campaign. It is hard to notice anti-Russian attitudes in Armenia - Russia is associated with hope and support. But the same is true of anti-Western sentiment, which is only natural considering the existence of the influential Armenian Diaspora countries such as the United States and France. Sarkisian has a well-deserved reputation of a pro-Russian politician. He has known Putin for a long time, since he worked in CIS security-related agencies. But he is quite open to cooperation with the West, which practically eliminates the possibility of a foreign country conducting a large-scale campaign against him, as has sometimes happened in post-Soviet republics. In this position it will be difficult not to win. No opposition candidate stands a chance, unless the government makes the mistake of paying too much attention to them. For the time being, the most prominent rival is the recent Speaker of Parliament and close associate of the current leader Artur Bagdasarian, who the polls put in second place with 13.4% of votes. He has suddenly turned into a vociferously pro-western critic of the regime. An active participant in every recent campaign, the leader of the National Unity Party, Artashes Gegamian, is in fourth place with a rating of 4.7%. Ex-Prime Minister Vazgen Manukian, and the leader of the historical Dashnak Party Vice-Speaker of Parliament Vaan Ovannesian are well known in the country. But the biggest sensation was the decision of the first Armenian President Levon Ter-Petrosian to run for the presidency. It has given not quite understandable hope to many opponents of the current government to defeat it. It is comparable to Mikhail Gorbachev running in the election race in Russia (he ran for the presidency in 1996 but with no success). Ter-Petrosian is trying to prove the unprovable - that he was a more successful leader than Kocharian and Sarkisian. But his compatriots have not forgotten the first half of the 1990s. Moreover, Ter-Petrosian had to resign when under Western pressure he displayed readiness to make tangible concessions on Artsax and relations with Turkey. Such conduct is not forgiven in Armenia. It will be difficult for him to prove his good attitude to Russia. It was he who shut down all the Russian schools in the country. Half of the voters will not support him under any circumstances, and he can hardly hope for more than third place and 7% of votes. Could the consolidation of the opposition change the situation before the elections? It seems unlikely, primarily because none of the opposition leaders is accepted by the others. Ter-Petrosian, who is the loudest in claiming the leadership of the opposition, is also the most resented by the others. Sarkisian's opponents will not form a political alliance. The West is not likely to support an oppositionist, either. Moreover, now that international observers have, with a few reservations, declared the elections in neighboring Georgia quite legitimate, they will find it rather difficult to give the Armenian elections a lower rating for fear of looking ridiculous. Unlike in Georgia, the elections in Armenia are being held according to schedule; TV channels have not been shut down; opposition supporters are not behind bars or in exile, nor under criminal investigation. International monitoring will be very serious - almost 300 observers in 1,923 constituencies. Russia would like to see Armenia a stable and dynamically developing country with a responsible government oriented towards constructive relations with it. Strategically, Sarkisian's nomination suits Moscow, which has given him support at the top level. It would be appropriate to take steps that would demonstrate our readiness to render Armenia substantial economic assistance. Regrettably, the pro-Russian forces in Armenia have been recently weakened by Moscow's decision to increase prices on gas exports. Considering our financial capabilities Russia should list Armenia as a priority recipient of its direct foreign aid. The main thing is not to overdo with the public demonstration of our support. The United States has been giving tangible assistance to Armenia for a long time. Our policymakers should consider the role Armenia could play in building relations with Georgia. For Armenia, which is under transport blockade, transit via Georgia is a lifeline. The more tense Russian-Georgian relations are, the more this lifeline is threatened. Vyacheslav Nikonov is president of the Politika Foundation. http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080207/98622236.html Edited February 14, 2008 by elle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.