Melikian Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 I agree that no race is better than any other... The reason why I started with these topics is because I am tired of Armenian people disguising themselves in America and Europe, to be European, falsifying that Armenia is in Europe... I am sick and tired of Armenians trying to disconnect themselves from the rest of the middle eastern people... I am not starting a new thread to gain support, I started this spacific topic to break away from the issues in my other thread such as race... Because I did not receive any explanations as to why Armenian people consider their culture to be European, that is all... "Europe" in its purest form is nothing more than a region which was created by ethnically/culturally political and physically geographical borders... Tigran I consider myself a white (caucasian) Armenian European, my father was from western Armenia and mother from eastern Armenia, they never considered themselves middle eastern. Below is a little info, I am sure if you search the internet you will find much more. Anatolia is considered near east, not middle east. You can argue this to death if you wish, the only Armenians I talked to that thought the same as you were from Syria, not Armenia. Avak Melikian Regions Europe can be divided into five geographic regions: Scandinavia (Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark); the British Isles (United Kingdom and Ireland); W Europe (France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, and Monaco); S Europe (Portugal, Spain, Andorra, Italy, Malta, San Marino, and Vatican City); Central Europe (Germany, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Austria, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Hungary); SE Europe (Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia and Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, and the European part of Turkey); E Europe (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, and the European portion of Russia); and by convention the Transcaucasian countries of Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 The Armenian culture has always been more West oriented than East. Have we forgotten the cultural Renaissance during the 10th-13th centuries that took place in Armenia, long before the 14th c. Renaissance in Europe? This shows that Armenians are more open-minded, believing in separation of Church and state and equality of citizens. It's sad that in our history we've always found ourselves surrounded by Muslim cultures, but we did manage to stay Christians, which is the more tolerant religion of the two. It says a great deal about our culture and about us as a people. Yes, I say I do consider myself to be European, and never Middle Eastern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARARAT KID Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 armenians are armenians who cares if they are european or middle eastern at least we aint turks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nvard Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Ararat kid, good point!That's what I would say- I am Armenian. But to be true, I would say Armenian culture is a crossroad (just like Armenia, as a country) between Europe and Middle East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARARAT KID Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 are armenians related to the urartu people cause i heard that they are actually not and we are actually related to armen tribe from the west Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 are armenians related to the urartu people cause i heard that they are actually not and we are actually related to armen tribe from the west Արմենները, առանց Արարատցիներու հայ չեն: Արմէնները դեռ իրենք հայ չեն, եթէ այդպիսի ժողովուրդ կայ.. Որեւէ շօշափելի փաստ չկայ, որ Արմէնները Եւրոպայէն եկած են: Արմէն անունը օտարները մեզ տուած են: Մենք զմեզ ՀԱՅ կը կոչենք: Չ'գոյ փաստերու վրայ հիմնուելով ենթադրութիւն անելը, մեղմ ասած ...ճիշտ չէ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Then, what is europe? Middle east was the origin of many civilizations. Not imagining the east at that era was like now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARARAT KID Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Արմենները, առանց Արարատցիներու հայ չեն: Արմէնները դեռ իրենք հայ չեն, եթէ այդպիսի ժողովուրդ կայ.. Որեւէ շօշափելի փաստ չկայ, որ Արմէնները Եւրոպայէն եկած են: Արմէն անունը օտարները մեզ տուած են: Մենք զմեզ ՀԱՅ կը կոչենք: Չ'գոյ փաստերու վրայ հիմնուելով ենթադրութիւն անելը, մեղմ ասած ...ճիշտ չէ can u write that in english ever since i learned english i forgotten how to read and write armenian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyeFedayis Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Lately I have been hearing a lot of Armenian people on this forum depicting Armenia to be a European country and its culture as European... I still cant understand why people ignore facts so here is a little information on this matter... Lonely Planet website states the following: "If you're unsure what the flavour of southwest Asia is, a quick look around Yerevan will tell you it's Middle Eastern, albeit Middle Eastern without mosques and Islam". http://webcenter.travel.aol.com/travel/lon...ia/culture.html Although "Lonely Planet" recognizes the correct geographical area of Armenia (Southwest Asia), with much ignorance they still list it as part of Europe... I believe that in certain areas, America, though being an Industrial giant, lacks much education, or atleast the common Americans do... "Culturally, historically, and politically, Armenia is considered to be part of Europe." And that is what counts. http://www.insideeurope.org/index.php?id=401 And Juergen-Zahorka, Hans. How Armenia Could Approach the European Union We are although geographically 100% in Asia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyeFedayis Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 armenians are armenians who cares if they are european or middle eastern at least we aint turks Its actually very important to our history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmd Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I will not move on untill the people who claim Armenia to be culturally European, explain their reasoning for such statements! This topic has nothing to do with the race issue... The overwhelming influence of ABBA when I was growing up in Soviet Armenia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARARAT KID Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Its actually very important to our history. what are you gonna prove by finding out that armenia is a little more to the easte than the west...I tell if i had to chose i would say armenia is a eurasian country and that is exactly what it is,,read any book on history and geography Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Cultural identity should not be confused with geography. Armenia is in ASIA! The European project is a NO-NO for Armenia for one simple reason. European Union is nothing but free movement of people and money. Do we want this??? Aren't we the most "Europeans" all over the world. Aren't we move freely everywhere and bring our cash flow (wallets wherever we go? As far as I remember, exactly because of these "civilized" Europeans, we were in a constant move for more than a century and even before that. Do you think it is posible for Armenia to become part of EU before Turkey? Yes it is. Is it possible that Turkey would become part of EU? Yes it is. Do we want to be part of something together with Turkey? No, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zartonk Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 The overwhelming influence of ABBA when I was growing up in Soviet Armenia? I hate to contribute to the resurrection of this "topic", but good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Դրօ Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 I don't see how would Armenia be in the Middle East. Geographically, Armenia is in Transcaucasia, or the Caucausus Mountains (Asia Minor), along with Georgia and Azerbaijan. This region, a very mountainous one, is very different from the Middle East, a desert-like region. It's right between Europe and Asia, and south of Russia and north of the Middle East. Ararat Kid is absolutely right in saying that Armenia is a Eurasian country. Historically, we've always been a passage-way between the two continents and we've always been noted for our hospitality for the travelers. Also, the three Caucasian countries (Armenia, Georgia, and Azerbaijan) are former members of the USSR. The Middle Eastern countries are not. Even our culture is very different. Those instruments that you've listed? They're also played in the other two Caucasian countries but most are not played in the Middle East, at least not the same variations. Also, have you ever listened Middle Eastern music? Have you ever listened Armenian music? Can you honestly tell me that they sound the same? By the way, you didn't mention the Armenian trademark; the Ծիրանափող (or internationally known as the Duduk). From the way you were typing, Tigran, I think you WANT to be Middle Eastern. Sorry to disappoint you, but whether you like it or not, even our language is Indo-European. Arabic, which is spoken in almost all of the Middle East, is Semitic. Although, Iran is the exception to the Middle East in a sense that the Iranians aren't Arabs, they're Persians and their language (Farsi) is also Indo-European. Anyway, geographically, Armenia is Caucasian. Language-wise, it's Indo-European. Geographically, Georgia is Caucasian. Language-wise, it's Caucasian as well, along with Abkhazian and Ossetian (I think). Geographically, Azerbaijan is Caucasian. Language-wise, it's Altaic, in the Turkic branch (although Japanese and Korean are also in the Altaic family but seperate from the Turkic branch). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Armenia could be naturally the border of Europe. The future Turkish-Armenian border is the most suitable border between Europe and Asia. It is in our best interest NOT to become part of Europe, but rather enjoying friendly relations with the Europeans as it was for centuries. Armenia has the advantage of having perfect relations with Iran, Syria and the Middle East - although being nominally Christian, Armenia has warmer relations with the Middle East than Turkey. Armenia will benefit more if she could navigate through complex interests in the region not loosing Russia as a partner and in the same time preserving the cultural ties with Europe and in that way becoming the bridge between East and West. It is also in our best interests if Georgia develops closer relations with Europe and eventually becomes part of the Union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanVal Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 This topic is closely related to another hot topic: the race of Armenians. Although the issue in complex, in general ethnic identity comes from within the group, whereas racial categories are imposed from the outside. Armenians have for centuries defined themselves as Armenians, so what's wrong with just keeping it that way? When I'm in a group of Middle Easterners (e.g. Arabs, Turks, Persians), I feel different from everyone around me although on the surface I might pass for one. On the other hand, I might have the same religion and the same "western" outlook on life as an Englishman, a Russian, or a French person, but I still don't feel like I'm one of them. Doesn't that mean that Armenians are unique and it's just a waste of time to try to put ourselves in a broader category? Of late there have been people of all kinds of ethnicities (including Armenians) trying to get themselves categorized as non-white, obviously because being different from wasps is "in." An Armenian is an Armenian is an Armenian. The truth is that unlike some other people out there (e.g. the Arab world is huge, so is the Slavik world, as is the Turkic world) Armenians don't have any close relatives, so it's futile to try to find any. If some scholar says Armenians are X or Y, or white or Asian, I'll comply with what they say as far as checking the box, but I'm certainly not going to let them influence how I define myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 I ask again. What is Europe? There is no one Europe but different Europes. In the other hand, also there is no one east, but different easts. You cannot put the question in this phrase. Armenians are Armenians. We are not like any others. Listen to original Armenian music. Is it European? Is it Vietnamese or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Why we can not be proud of our geographical, racial and cultural identities? Why we are trying to concern to east or to west? Why we can not stay in our homeland, the Armenian Highland? Ours is too beautiful. Haykakan e, Patuakan e. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHENGAVIT Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Armenians are Middle easternGerb.bmp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nvard Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Also, Anyway, geographically, Armenia is Caucasian. Language-wise, it's Indo-European. Geographically, Georgia is Caucasian. Language-wise, it's Caucasian as well, along with Abkhazian and Ossetian (I think). Geographically, Azerbaijan is Caucasian. Language-wise, it's Altaic, in the Turkic branch (although Japanese and Korean are also in the Altaic family but seperate from the Turkic branch). Osetian is an Indo-europian language of Iranian (Farso-Aryan) group.Japanese is not an altaic language.It's from Japonic family and doesn't have any close related languages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHENGAVIT Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 everone seems like to know alot of staff here. not sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Դրօ Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Osetian is an Indo-europian language of Iranian (Farso-Aryan) group.Japanese is not an altaic language.It's from Japonic family and doesn't have any close related languages. I tried researching what you said. Ossetian is, indeed, an Indo-European language in the Persian branch. However, Japanese is still an Altaic language. The Japonic group is one of the sub-divisions of the Altaic family. http://www.krysstal.com/langfams_altaic.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurocentric Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Not White=Not Armenian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armenak Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Not White=Not Armenian Tell that to phantom22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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