Armenians And Their Opinions

[phantom]

Tigran, I think that when people say Armenians are European, they are speaking about our cultural and idealogical similarities. Perhaps we eat foods and listen to music that is similar to the Persians, but we are much more progressive than they are in terms of civil rights, women's rights, education, literacy, etc., which are all European values. In fact, it's probably safe to say that Armenia is the most progressive country in the neighborhood. And my understanding is that Armenians who live in Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, UAE, Egypt, etc. are relatively liberal compared to the rest of the population. Why is that? It's because we naturally tend to lean toward those ideals that are embraced by European society.

 

As far as our genetics, you said that we are predominantly dark skinned and therefore cannot be European. I don't agree. Most of the Armenians I know have dark hair and eyes, but are as white as any of the Southern Europeans. In fact, I think we are lighter skinned than Spaniards, Portuguese, and Italians (except for Northern/Tyrolean Italians). Does that mean that Spaniards and Italians aren't European? In any case, being European is less about the color of your skin than it is about the values that you foster and embrace. Think of Australia, on the other end of the world, but probably one of the most "European" places on earth.

[TigranG]

Why do you claim/attribute modern culture and the ideology of freedom to Europe, when the first place to practice such ideology was AMERICA, not Europe... So it is more correct to describe Armenian and other modern day open-minded cultures as Western and not primarily European...

I disagree, MOST Armenians are darker rather than lighter skin, and are just as dark and sometimes even darker than Spaniards, Italians, and Greeks, and I already mentioned that the reason for darker skin in Spain,Italy and Greece is due to the colonization and contact with the North African and Middle Eastern regions... I never said that skin color was the reason for Armenians not being European, it is the geographical factor...

 

Australian culture is western by modern standards,

but for the record, no one considers or even calls Australia a European country, even though the population is mostly of European descent...

Edited September 29, 2005 by TigranG

[phantom]

Why do you claim/attribute modern culture and the ideology of freedom to Europe, when the first place to practice such ideology was AMERICA, not Europe... So it is more correct to describe Armenian and other modern day open-minded cultures as Western and not primarily European...

I disagree, MOST Armenians are darker rather than lighter skin, and are just as dark and sometimes even darker than Spaniards, Italians, and Greeks, and I already mentioned that the reason for darker skin in Spain,Italy and Greece is due to the colonization and contact with the North African and Middle Eastern regions... I never said that skin color was the reason for Armenians not being European, it is the geographical factor...

 

Australian culture is western by modern standards,

but for the record, no one considers or even calls Australia a European country, even though the population is mostly of European descent...

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I think most African-Americans would disagree with you that America was the first place to practice the ideology of freedom. Remember slavery was alive and well in America long after it had been shunned in Europe. Europe today is generally a far more liberal place than America. But in any case, I understand your point that Europe is not the only place in the world where liberal democracies flourish. In any case, I think we can all agree that Armenia leans toward being "European" or "Western" more than anything else, and certainly more than any of its neighbors.

[TigranG]

I completely agree!

[Zartonk]

I don't what the big deal is. We have Armenians looking very different from one another. Some look as if they are Prussian born and some look as dark as Dravids. It's not our color that bounds us, but the fact that we have stream of thought and counciousness. Please let go of this "we are white" "no, we eat " nonsense. Lets cherish and be proud of what we really are: Hye.

[Vanetsi]

when the first place to practice such ideology was AMERICA

 

Have you forgotten Britain, the most democratic of all countries in the world at the time of American colonization? And even they modeled themselves after the principles of Rome, not to mention Locke, Rousseau, and Montesquie.

[TigranG]

Good point, but the real freedom ideology I think is more American than European, but it doesn't matter... Lets just stop this topic, I have found out what I needed to know, I am satisfied... We are all probably right in certain respect...

[Armat]

Good point, but the real freedom ideology I think is more American than European, but it doesn't matter... Lets just stop this topic, I have found out what I needed to know, I am satisfied... We are all probably right in certain respect...

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I felt this topic is worth continuing, at present you are right Armenians culturally are Middle Eastern rather huge percentage, just listening the rabiz crap is enough prove (centuries of Islamic conquests) however I was and still more interested in our origins, which point towards European continent.

Edited October 3, 2005 by Armat

[Armat]

At the end of the second millennium BC, another Indo-European ethnic group, closely related to Thracians and Phrygians and referred to by the Greeks as Armens, migrated to the Armenian Highland from Northern Balkans. According to a Greek myth, which actually reflects this tribal migration, the forefather of Armenians - Armenios - was one of the Argonauts, accompanying Jason in his quest for the Golden Fleece. In the year 1115 BC, king Tiglath Pileser I of Assyria reports a battle with a force of 20.000 Armens in the Gadmokh province of Assyria.

 

The mixture of Armens with the indigenous Hayasa eventually produced the Armenian people as it is known today. The existence of two major segments in the Armenian people is best of all illustrated by the fact that Armenians call themselves "Hay" and their country "Hayastan" after Hayasa, while other peoples call them Armenians and their country Armenia after the Armens. The Armenian language is basically the language of Armens, which is the only survivor of the now extinct Thraco-Phrygian group. It incorporated a large number of Hayasa words and grammatical features, as well as a significant number of non-Indo-European words from minor ethnic groups, which also took part in the ethnogenesis of Armenians.

Yes Harut it is not prove in real scientific sense but mentioning Armens in Greek myth is significant

Edited October 3, 2005 by Armat

[Armat]

This cut and paste is from general indo-European language groups

 

The Thracian Branch

This branch is represented by a single modern language, Armenian. It has its own script.

 

Armenian is spoken in Armenia and Nagorno-Artsax (an enclave in Azerbaijan). The language is rich in consonants and has borrowed much of its vocabulary from Farsi (Iranian). Nouns have 7 cases and the past tense of verbs take an E prefix like Greek.

 

Armenian

[Vanetsi]

Its important to note that many times myths do have some sort of factual base. It makes sense to think that an actuality could influence a myth.

[Takoush]

The mixture of Armens with the indigenous Hayasa eventually produced the Armenian people as it is known today. The existence of two major segments in the Armenian people is best of all illustrated by the fact that Armenians call themselves "Hay" and their country "Hayastan" after Hayasa, while other peoples call them Armenians and their country Armenia after the Armens. The Armenian language is basically the language of Armens, which is the only survivor of the now extinct Thraco-Phrygian group.

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Armat:

 

Where actually the Hayasas came from? Where from Europe? I know the tribes you mentioned Thrace and Phrygia and even Thessaly, but I don't know where the Hayasas exactly which country they came from. Also the Armens which country they came from. I know you said the Northern Balkans; but exactly where or what was the country or tribe called? Do you know?

Edited October 7, 2005 by Anahid Takouhi

[Vanetsi]

To quote Josephus, the Thracians, or descendants of Tiras, the grandson of Japheth, came to the area came to be named after them from north central europe to find more fertile land in the south. Much of this comes from oral histroy passed down and it is influenced by the Bible, so who knows how credible it is.

 

Just an interesting fact-- in the tradition of many ancient culture, the Thracians revered their ancestors. This archetypical practice seems to be a universal human trait-- even the Chinese did it. The forefather they revered was Tiras. A more popular version of his name is a corruption of it-- Thor (where the name Thursday comes from-- "thor's day").

 

I've read, although I cant cite any sources, that the Hays were an Aryan tribe that hailed from the Zagros mountains. The people of that area are said to have come from are of southern Russia.

 

Referring to my post about myths being based on facts, it was oral tradition that Armenians were descendants of Japheth. But this is based on biblical history and it is difficult to back any of it up with proof.

[Aramik]

I wonder, why do Armenians try to be something that they are not... for example:

Some Armenians claim their ethnicity as being white as the Europeans, and have a huge desire to belong to the European ethnical background. While it is true that Armenian people are partially of European descent, there lingers different types of racial background in the Armenian region. Urartians were not Indo-European, plus there many different types of people settled in the Near/Middle East...

Armenians are a mixture of many different people, including Persians and Greeks, and Semites, and who ever disagrees with those facts are not bound by the facts of life nor the truth that is unwanted by the bulk of Armenian people... Persian tribes existed in that area just as long and to think that neibhors dont interact or mix is unreasonable... Persians and armenians were once very close, infact my mother brought a historic book from Armenia which specifies that the Persians and Armenians spoke a similiar language and were able to understand each other.

The word Armen comes from the Armen tribe who were from the Greek region, Armens came to the current Armenian region and settled there. Many different people including the Urartians,Hittites,Medes,Parthians, and Semites lived there... Armen tribe concluded to be the most dominating, thus Hay people started to speak Armen(ian) language... Armenians are people of mixed race, and I know that most Armenians decline that fact... But! Take a look at Armenian people, some look white, some look like Indian, some like Afghano-Persian, some like Arabs/Jews... Some light skin most olive skin, some really dark skin... Ofcourse all the people in the world like to think they are pure, but in Middle East/Near East there are no pure race people, we are in the middle of all the regions of the world, south west of us is Africa, north west is Europe, east is the Orient... Every race came through the Near Eastern are, and to think that they haven't left any of their imprints on us is ubsurd, and even unrealistic. The so called Caucasian race does not exist unless they mean Georgians or south Russian areas. Europeans try to attribute everything they can to their own history... We, the Middle Eastern people are not of one race but of mixed origins, other wise we wouldn't look the way we do... Semites are not white though white people try to say the opposite, far from the truth. Semites are part white and part african and part middle eastern, in another words (mixed race people), but Europeans attribute semites to themselves. It goes the same for us. Modern day Armenians are a melting pot of middle east, concluded by modern day scholars (new evidence). I understand that before it was thought that Armenians are Thracio-Phrygian, true, but only partially. WE ARE A MIXED PEOPLE, and for all of you who don't accept the truth, wake up look around the (world) human history, and the faces of armenian people will tell their history to you. Most armenians look middle eastern, about quarter look european, and very few look a bit on the Indian side... plus look at our middle eastern culture (just take out Islam)...

 

Lets be proud to have such strong mixed blood. (I realize that racist Armenians who wish to have been of a pure white race with their nazi like attitude will never acknowledge the facts of life). We all need to be proud of our own region (Near East or Middle East, or which ever one you choose) instead of trying to leach off the European race...

 

I can only speak about my own family and can tell you, that we are 100% WHITE!!!

 

 

I was classified as Atlanto Mediterranid.

 

See the pictures :

[gamavor]

According to Strabo and Herodotous, Armens came from Thessaly and Thrace. Some even argue todays' Macedonia. The only proof for such linkeage is Karnig Sarkissians' song "Macedonia, im yeghbairs im khachovs busagvets".

[ARARAT KID]

I wonder, why do Armenians try to be something that they are not... for example:

Some Armenians claim their ethnicity as being white as the Europeans, and have a huge desire to belong to the European ethnical background. While it is true that Armenian people are partially of European descent, there lingers different types of racial background in the Armenian region. Urartians were not Indo-European, plus there many different types of people settled in the Near/Middle East...

Armenians are a mixture of many different people, including Persians and Greeks, and Semites, and who ever disagrees with those facts are not bound by the facts of life nor the truth that is unwanted by the bulk of Armenian people... Persian tribes existed in that area just as long and to think that neibhors dont interact or mix is unreasonable... Persians and armenians were once very close, infact my mother brought a historic book from Armenia which specifies that the Persians and Armenians spoke a similiar language and were able to understand each other.

The word Armen comes from the Armen tribe who were from the Greek region, Armens came to the current Armenian region and settled there. Many different people including the Urartians,Hittites,Medes,Parthians, and Semites lived there... Armen tribe concluded to be the most dominating, thus Hay people started to speak Armen(ian) language... Armenians are people of mixed race, and I know that most Armenians decline that fact... But! Take a look at Armenian people, some look white, some look like Indian, some like Afghano-Persian, some like Arabs/Jews... Some light skin most olive skin, some really dark skin... Ofcourse all the people in the world like to think they are pure, but in Middle East/Near East there are no pure race people, we are in the middle of all the regions of the world, south west of us is Africa, north west is Europe, east is the Orient... Every race came through the Near Eastern are, and to think that they haven't left any of their imprints on us is ubsurd, and even unrealistic. The so called Caucasian race does not exist unless they mean Georgians or south Russian areas. Europeans try to attribute everything they can to their own history... We, the Middle Eastern people are not of one race but of mixed origins, other wise we wouldn't look the way we do... Semites are not white though white people try to say the opposite, far from the truth. Semites are part white and part african and part middle eastern, in another words (mixed race people), but Europeans attribute semites to themselves. It goes the same for us. Modern day Armenians are a melting pot of middle east, concluded by modern day scholars (new evidence). I understand that before it was thought that Armenians are Thracio-Phrygian, true, but only partially. WE ARE A MIXED PEOPLE, and for all of you who don't accept the truth, wake up look around the (world) human history, and the faces of armenian people will tell their history to you. Most armenians look middle eastern, about quarter look european, and very few look a bit on the Indian side... plus look at our middle eastern culture (just take out Islam)...

 

Lets be proud to have such strong mixed blood. (I realize that racist Armenians who wish to have been of a pure white race with their nazi like attitude will never acknowledge the facts of life). We all need to be proud of our own region (Near East or Middle East, or which ever one you choose) instead of trying to leach off the European race...

 

[shaunt]

 

I can only speak about my own family and can tell you, that we are 100% WHITE!!!

I was classified as Atlanto Mediterranid.

 

See the pictures :

 

That classification is spot on, .

 

 

[gamavor]

This is for those who are obsessed with race, color, ethnicity, DNA, etc. The study shows that the only group of people in the East with exactly the same DNA make up as the West Europeans are the Armenians.

 

http://brilliantmaps.com/

 

http://brilliantmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/DNA-borders.png

Edited June 30, 2017 by gamavor