Diaspora Investments In Armenia

[gamavor]

I have been asked quite often by many people as to why Diaspora Armenians do not invest in Armenia. Honestly, I don’t know the answer. I may know some of the reasons, but cannot comprehend as to why they don’t. I’m aware of the numerous difficulties and bureaucracy, but those are the hurdling blocks that any investor anywhere in the world would have to face.

 

If an Armenian businessman from USA or Europe, can go ahead and start a business in Latin America or the Middle East or Africa why not in Armenia?

 

The most active in Armenia in terms of business are Russian and Persian Armenians. While Russian Armenians have the advantage of “knowing the system” for the Persian Armenians the advantage is the economic freedom and some positive aspects of living in Armenia.

 

How can we expect to make Armenia better place without investing into Armenian economy?

[Armen]

Gamavor, the keyword is "confidence". I remember reading an article by a French economist about the first days of investment boom in China. Too bad I don't have it handy. The Chinese tycoons from Hong Kong, Singapour, Indonesia and Taiwan were the first ones to pour billions into China. Even in the early 1996 when China and Taiwan were very close to war, nothing happened to their money on the mainland. The level of confidence between the Beijing administration and overseas Chinese investors secured the stable flow of money. The western investors followed the Chinese diaspora into the mainland. If I remember right, only some two years ago the volume of foreign investments from non-Chinese sources prevailed over the volume of investments from overseas Chinese. I don't know how the communist administration in Beijing always managed to reassure the Chinese diaspora in safeness of their investments. Even with jailed dissidents, censored press etc. etc. the money of Chinese diaspora stayed in China and enriched them. So, whatever the politics, the athmosphere between the mainland administration and diaspora investors was business and confidence in future. Because they effectively separated politics from business. And western investors always watched the Chinese disporans as an indicator of investment climate in the country. They do it until now actually. During this period there have also been failure stories related to diasporan invesment to China. But still the positive trand prevailed.

 

I always compare this success story to the situation in Armenia. The only answer I find is that we believe foreigners more than we believe each other and this prevents the establishment of confidence. We are more judgemental towards each other than we are of foreigners.

[MosJan]

"western investors always watched the Chinese disporans as an indicator of investment climate in the country. They do it until now actually. During this period there have also been failure stories related to diasporan invesment to China. But still the positive trand prevailed."

 

We just can’t afford failure ~ no one can afford failure Armenjan

[MosJan]

one might need to get hold of this book

 

ARMENIAN INVESTMENTS GUIDE PUBLISHED

 

YEREVAN, JULY 15. ARMINFO. Armenian Investments Guide was published this year. The main objective of the guide is to fill up the information gap, which somewhat repels foreign investors from Armenia.

As Project Director Narine Melikyan informed ARMINFO, this handbook contains detailed and objective information on investment climate and its procedures in Armenia. The handbook includes general economic characteristics, macroeconomic indices, peculiarities of the economic policy and information on enterprises of Armenia with the share of foreign capital. The sections of the book contain information on the starting a business in Armenia, on tax and customs systems, general types of tax regimes and procedures, as well as the process of liquidation of enterprises. The guide is published in 1,500 copies in English and distributed in about 50 countries.

The project ha been financed by the Cambridge-Yerevan Sister City Association and the U.S. Department of State Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs.

[shaunt]

How can we expect to make Armenia better place without investing into Armenian economy?

 

Do you suppose money will solve Armenia's political and social woes too? Investing there will not make the country any less vile than it is now.

[Armen]

Do you suppose money will solve Armenia's political and social woes too?

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How about "YES!"

[gamavor]

Armen, I can't agree more with you. Indeed 'confidence' is the key word. I revisited All-Armenian Fund site and it has some new developments. Good to see that there are people in the Diaspora who use their money wisely. The major infrastructure porjects need serious funding that can only come from a pull of donnors and investors. Good to see Krikorian, Hovnanian, Eurekian, Manoogians (both Londontsi and Michigantsi:)) comming together and joyning their efforts.

 

http://www.himnadram.org/eng/

 

The major boost for the real economy however will come from middle size investors. Light industry, high-tech, etc. Armenia lost so much time that the prefered type of investments should be the ones that aim and at and develop super-modern brands of goods and services in order to overcome the technology delay gap.

Edited July 28, 2005 by gamavor

[Piggy]

The problem with Armenians is we have lost our autarky like state every since the Ottoman massacres and Soviet occupation. The problem Armenians face is that our mentality has been corrupted by Soviet and Ottoman thought. Once we were willing to stand up against the strongest of Islamic foes knowing we would lose, now we run to wherever the money is. This is Soviet corruption at its best, which has transformed our people in such a way that we run away from our motherland and into foreign lands for money whilst our forefathers faught through massacres and conversion attempts and still lived on that soil.

 

What I'm trying to say is, Armenia's problem is not money. Our republic has 2million people, we can rebuild it completely in 5 years with all the money the Disapora has. It is not ARMENIA that needs rebuilding, but the Armenian people.

 

More Compassion for one another, more patriotism and assistance to our kind. Rebuilding our attitudes will ultimately rebuild our nation.

 

Examples are the Germans, they lost 2 wars but because their people were known for stringent discipline and nationalism their nation was built, destroyed, rebuilt, destroyed, and rebuilt to be the 3rd largest exporter in the world.

[Piggy]

no one wnats to reply? can you reply?

[gamavor]

I agree! What can I say?

[Piggy]

That you agree. Make me happy.

[Armen]

It is not ARMENIA that needs rebuilding, but the Armenian people.

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You need money for that too. So we better go back to the issue of investments

[phantom22]

Piggy "hit the nail on its head."

[Piggy]

You need money for that too. So we better go back to the issue of investments 

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Incorrect. Although economic conditions to affect social perspective, Armenians have an attitude problem more than an economic problem. Most Armenians came here to make money, and have done so, but they are chosing to stay here rather than go back. That's a problem.

[Armen]

Incorrect. Although economic conditions to affect social perspective, Armenians have an attitude problem more than an economic problem. Most Armenians came here to make money, and have done so, but they are chosing to stay here rather than go back. That's a problem.

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Mmmm...How about doing both. I mean you give people food and change their attitude, right? Or do you want to change their attitude by straving them to death?

[Piggy]

Mmmm...How about doing both. I mean you give people food and change their attitude, right? Or do you want to change their attitude by straving them to death?

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You ever heard of that saying that you can give a man a fish and save him from hunger for a day, but if you teach him how to fish you can save him from hunger forever? Well, giving is not the right answer, it is teaching that is the correct one.

[Armen]

You ever heard of that saying that you can give a man a fish and save him from hunger for a day, but if you teach him how to fish you can save him from hunger forever? Well, giving is not the right answer, it is teaching that is the correct one.

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"Investment" was not "giving" last time I checked and we were talking about investments here. As I said in my previous post any kind of maximalist attitude won't solve it. Also, you can view the investments itself as a way of "teaching" if you will because they have many spillover effects in society. I guess this is why some of the biggest diasporan investors go on with their projects.

[AryakanHye]

if possible piggy can i contact you some how ..... ur a very clever person ....... i am with u 99% by the way im new so hi to everyone Edited August 5, 2005 by AryakanHye

[Djrak]

The problem with Armenians is we have lost our autarky like state every since the Ottoman massacres and Soviet occupation. The problem Armenians face is that our mentality has been corrupted by Soviet and Ottoman thought. Once we were willing to stand up against the strongest of Islamic foes knowing we would lose, now we run to wherever the money is. This is Soviet corruption at its best, which has transformed our people in such a way that we run away from our motherland and into foreign lands for money whilst our forefathers faught through massacres and conversion attempts and still lived on that soil.

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my friend it is not thought or mentality that we have lost but FAITH!

it wasnt mentality that gave our ancestors the courage and boldness to resist the enemy who tried to convert us but FAITH.

They knew very well what they were doing and they knew very well where they were going.

we gave in to despair and lies of the world.... but it's never too late to get it back.

[Takoush]

Gamavor, the keyword is "confidence".

 

I always compare this success story to the situation in Armenia. The only answer I find is that we believe foreigners more than we believe each other and this prevents the establishment of confidence. We are more judgemental towards each other than we are of foreigners.

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

I read your article. My father used to say throughout our short and former independence days that is from 1918 thru 1921 numerous wealthy Armenians were about to invest their money into the newly formed Republic when Soviet Russia then took over Armenian. I wonder where the Armenian wealthy diasporians of today? Why don't they follow the Armenians of 1920-21 or of today's Chinese for that matter? Armen djan, agree, I truly wish that they do it in the near future. Just see to it that Armenians who try to invest in Armenia they don't go through a lot of red tapes and are well treated, encouraged and are not robbed. That would encourage them more. Somehow we dwell on the negative stories than the good ones, I wish as a nationality we didn't. At least now that we have to get the Armenian Republic to start walking and getting together; not ontly to survive but well prosper.

[Takoush]

The problem with Armenians is we have lost our autarky like state every since the Ottoman massacres and Soviet occupation. The problem Armenians face is that our mentality has been corrupted by Soviet and Ottoman thought. Once we were willing to stand up against the strongest of Islamic foes knowing we would lose, now we run to wherever the money is. This is Soviet corruption at its best, which has transformed our people in such a way that we run away from our motherland and into foreign lands for money whilst our forefathers faught through massacres and conversion attempts and still lived on that soil.

 

What I'm trying to say is, Armenia's problem is not money. Our republic has 2million people, we can rebuild it completely in 5 years with all the money the Disapora has. It is not ARMENIA that needs rebuilding, but the Armenian people.

 

More Compassion for one another, more patriotism and assistance to our kind. Rebuilding our attitudes will ultimately rebuild our nation.

 

Examples are the Germans, they lost 2 wars but because their people were known for stringent discipline and nationalism their nation was built, destroyed, rebuilt, destroyed, and rebuilt to be the 3rd largest exporter in the world.

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

What Piggy is trying to say here is that Armenians have changed their most sacred ways and their national character throughout the soviet regime. We used to be more persevering, noble and honest, and much more patriotic. Our land was sacred for us and we have persevered throughout thick and thin. If we went out of our country for a few years, yet we came back pouring more money and ourselves into our country. I am talking before 1915 in the homelands. We didn't live our country "deglor" as they are doing it now and today regarding our newly formed AR. Most of the Armenians who leave their AR to go out and live in prosperity, yet they don't go back to their Armenian Republic to pour money into it as well as themselves. Unfortunately yes, the soviet regime has changed our national character and the way we lived and persevered for our sacred land and our national identity.

 

I suggest that Our priests, the head of all our respectful organizations as well as our government would constantly preach from their podiums to their people to try and change back the character of our people the way we used to be more or less before the soviet regime came to corrupt and change our most sacred national characteristics.

[Pantera]

Hello, everybody I was reading your nice thoughts here, it was interresting to read.

I think everybody has his/her important point here and I would like to express my thoughts as well. I would be happy if u will correct me if I think wrong, please.

Do we all do our responsbilities except judging others or finding the reasons in somewhere else?

Let's immagine a big triangle and devide it in to three parts. The top part of the triangle we'll name GOVERNMENT, middle part ARMY and the bottom one PEOPLE . Do u think any country will survive if one of the three very important reasons in the triangle will be weak or will not do it's responsibilities? I think these three are the most important things to hsve a healthy country, isn't it so? they have to be strong, to have a strong country and if one of them is weak... it's not a healthy country, unfortunatly...

I wanna start talking from the bottom of the triangle.

 

3. PEOPLE

People are the face of the government and the face of their countries. There are many compareable short stories about people and sheep. And nothing to be upset about that as it looks like it. We want it or not, but we follow shepherd. We are not aloud to be against something in the government, because if we will be so, nobody will listen us.

As they understand that, and because people had a loooooots of difficulties, and it hearted most men in our country, so, automaticly people devided in to two parts - HOPLESS and HARD WORKERS.

Hopless people, who are mentaly hearted, upset /men/ as they can't find a good job , hadn't a chance to leave the country for a work /money, refuse.../ or they can't do anything to support their families. So, what to do? To sit in the sofa and send their wifes or children to find a work wherever and whatever it's possible. We can't judge them as the hurted man is the wors thing... just we can name them "weak people" maybe? Different personalities....

Hardworking people try to escape from the hanger and they are ready for everything for their families, doesn't matter what... they just want to protect their families. They try to be stronger /but they are olsow hurted/, and they leave the country to find a job, to kill themselves for the chippest job and to send money to their families, to miss them crazy and to listen about treachery from other people.

This is our picture.

2. ARMY

poor army, there are lots of boys and men who couldn't pay for not going too far to protect their own country. There are only poore people children next to the border... our boys, they all have the strange scareing faces when somebody talks with them about going to army. They want to run away, to excape... why? pecouse, there is nothing provided for them in the army, that's why. Because nobody gives a ... about them in the army, no protection, no nice food, no personal respect, even no enough trainings... that's the way our country protecters are provided.

I was just thinking........ mmmmmmm, do u think our country is safe?

1.GOVERNMENT

This is the part which is managing the others...

soooo, loook above... just a little part of our problems.... and missing ssoooo many things there.... so, what do u think? to who to blame? what to do? To blame our people? because they don't have jobs and even now some of them don't want to find it? to blame the rest of the people who left the country for supporting their families? to blame girls or boys who merry foreighn people because they don't see their future in their own country? to blame boys who are running from going to army, as they don't have any protection? or to blame the government as they can't stop thinking about the money? and because they devided the country in to some peaces and managing it on their own rools? nooooo waaaay.... we don't have any right to blame anybody.

Even if we have it... anyway nobody is listening us and nobody will care of us, even if we'll change the whole government.

 

What do u think who doesn't do their own responsibilites?

So, who to blame people? what to do? who to ask to take care of us? any ideas?

Do we have a healthy, safe country?

 

P.S. aand one more thing... where are going the investments people do for Gharabagh or Armenia or for other reasons...? are u sure u know where they go? Please, smbd. tell me.

Edited September 4, 2005 by Pantera

[Dave]

In my opinion, Armenia is the best of all 3 Caucasian countries. Azerbaijan lost Nagorno-Karabagh, Georgia lost Abkhazia and Ossetia, Armenia didn't...

[Pantera]

In my opinion, Armenia is the best of all 3 Caucasian countries. Azerbaijan lost Nagorno-Karabagh, Georgia lost Abkhazia and Ossetia, Armenia didn't...

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Yeah, u r right, we had a lot of success within these years with the second president of Armenia. With the first one was difficult as the country was new endependent and it was the hardest years to rule it. And as hungry leaders can't do it, they should be dethroned as it happened. Those days the difficulties were very strict and sudden and people they saw and knew that they had to fight with it. And they were doing so. But now, the difficulties so unusuall and unnoticable that people they don't see or notice that they perish slowly and slowly...

...by the way have u seen any person walking with a smile on his/her face in Armenia? .......... I can't remember have I seen? why it's so? can anybody tell me? what's wrong with the people in Armenia? look at their faces carefuly and u see the sadness in their eyes. Yeh, it has every single person in Armenia. ? /I'm not talking about exceptions of the government /people they think how to steal, how to lie or how to fake their behaviours to find a job, to beg money from the first person they see in the morning or to wait for the money that somebody lucky or tired /of sending money/ has to send from overseaze....

 

Our people had a lot of difficulties, which have many other countries. But the thing is, that nobody WANTS to fix it, nobody WANTS to take care of them...

oh... and who has to do it?

And again one more thing. Will we have the success to compare Armenia not with the poor countries and to say "oh, we r better". Enough, we deserve better life than Azerbaijanese or Georgians or others others. Lucky we r to forward from Africa

Edited September 4, 2005 by Pantera

[Armen]

I read your article.  My father used to say throughout our short and former independence days that is from 1918 thru 1921 numerous wealthy Armenians were about to invest their money into the newly formed Republic when Soviet Russia then took over Armenian.  I wonder where the Armenian wealthy diasporians of today?  Why don't they follow the Armenians of 1920-21 or of today's Chinese for that matter?  Armen djan, agree, I truly wish that they do it in the near future.  Just see to it that Armenians who try to invest in Armenia they don't go through a lot of red tapes and are well treated, encouraged and are not robbed.  That would encourage them more.  Somehow we dwell on the negative stories than the good ones, I wish as a nationality we didn't.  At least now that we have to get the Armenian Republic to start walking and getting together; not ontly to survive but well prosper. 

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

Taguhin aprats kena! Inchpes eq Dzerd Metsutyun? Sruj ktsankanayiq? Hren, Nazir-Vezirin dzen tam ... !