phantom Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. style_images/master/snapback.png I entirly agree. We have no clue of what really weant wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Turkish Scholar Arrested In Armenia For ‘Smuggling’ Bid www.armenieliberty.org By Gayane Danielian A Turkish scholar who researched Ottoman history in Armenia’s state archives has been arrested on charges of attempting to smuggle old Armenian books seen as cultural treasures by law-enforcement authorities out of the country. The National Security Service (NSS) said in a statement late Friday that Yeftan Turkyilmaz, 33, was detained at Yerevan’s Zvartnots airport as he was about to board a plane bound for Istanbul. The statement said he carried undeclared Armenian-language books about history, religion and geography published from the 17th to 19th centuries. The security agency described them as “literature of high historical and cultural value.” Under Armenian law such items can not be taken out of the country without a permission from the Ministry of Culture. Turkyilmaz, who spent more than one month in Armenia, was charged under an article of the Armenian Criminal Code that carries heavy fines and up to five years in prison. The NSS refused to officially comment on the case. But sources there told RFE/RL that the Armenian successor to the Soviet-era KGB is unlikely to seek a jail sentence for the Turkish national. A doctoral student at the Duke University in North Carolina, Turkyilmaz became last month the first Turkish historian who sought and was given access to the Armenian National Archive. In an interview with RFE/RL, he said he is working with documents relating to activities of Turkish, Kurdish and Armenian nationalist parties during the final decades of the Ottoman Empire. Armenian officials portrayed Turkyilmaz’s presence as proof that the Armenian archives have always been open to Turkish researchers. Turkey’s government has repeatedly urged Yerevan in recent months to make documents kept in the available to them as part of its push for a joint Turkish-Armenian study of the 1915 mass killings of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire. Turkyilmaz suggested on May 11 that he became the first Turk to work with the archives because very few of his colleagues in Turkey speak Armenian. It is not clear how the scholar got hold of the old books. He was said to be experiencing financial difficulties and enjoyed discount fees for accessing archival materials. The National Acrhive director, Amatuni Virabian, said he thinks Turkyilmaz did not deliberately break Armenian laws or regulations. “He showed interest in books and I gave him a few [recently published] books,” Virabian told RFE/RL. “But I didn’t know that he bought old books. You can transport anything except arms and drugs out of Turkey. I guess the guy thought things are the same here.” “In any case, we are now in a silly situation,” he added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 TURKISH HISTORIANS SENT OPEN LETTER TO ARMENIAN PRESIDENT 01.08.2005 03:17 /PanARMENIAN.Net/ A group to Turkish historians have sent an open letter to Armenian President Robert Kocharian. The authors of the letter are concerned over the fate of Turkish scholar Yektan Turkyilmaz, taken into custody in Yerevan. «No one notified him in advance,» the message authors write, urging Armenian leaders not to exacerbate the already fragile Armenian-Turkish relations, reported Turkish Daily News. It should be reminded that Yerevan-Istanbul flight passenger – Turkish citizens Yektan Turkyilmaz – was taken into custody at Zvartnots Airport. A large lot of books of 17-20th centuries was found in his luggage and seized. <!> Reproduction in full or in part is prohibited without reference to "PanARMENIAN.Net" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunt Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 ... urging Armenian leaders not to exacerbate the already fragile Armenian-Turkish relations... STFU, and mind your own businesses. When these guys aren't busy falsifying history, they can be quite obnoxious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hytga Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 (edited) STFU, and mind your own businesses. When these guys aren't busy falsifying history, they can be quite obnoxious. style_images/master/snapback.png amen Edited August 2, 2005 by hytga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 (edited) The guy is in prison for enough time, they should have released him by now. We have no information of spying, or intentional acts to harm the republic of Armenia, it's social structure or its people. All point to the direction that the guy was not aware that what he was doing was illegal, I know that this doesn't justify his act, but they got the books, what the hell they're waiting to release him? We had an OK Turkish scholar that wasn't a Halacoglu to research the archives, and we make him en in prison like this. Edited August 2, 2005 by QueBeceR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 (edited) This is the work of the KGB, still active in Armenia but under a different name. Such idiocy. When I went to Armenia the Russian border guards scrutined me. They could not believe that a man my age could look like a youngster. There are some in the Russian hierarchy who do not want to see any rapproachement between Armenians and Turks. That would mean that Armenia would drift toward the West and come more under the sphere of influence of Turkey and the US. How many parents are happy when their children leave home? They are very comfortable that Armenia is "Russiya-in pechin dage." Edited August 2, 2005 by phantom22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 There are some in the Russian hierarchy who do not want to see any rapproachement between Armenians and Turks. That would mean that Armenia would drift toward the West and come more under the sphere of influence of Turkey and the US. How many parents are happy when their children leave home? They are very comfortable that Armenia is "Russiya-in pechin dage." Let them first ratify Sevres! Then, we can talk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 Senator Bob Dole 601 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. North Building, 10th Floor Washington, D.C. 20004 August 2, 2005 H.E. Robert Kocharian President Republic of Armenia Yerevan Dear Mr. President: I am writing to urge you to release Mr. Yektan Turkyilmaz, a Duke University graduate student who has been detained in Armenia since June 17. As I understand it, Yektan broke an obscure law that prohibits exportation of any book--regardless of its rarity, historical significance, or value--more than fifty years old. I also understand, however, that he has been jailed without being charged, and that your authorities intend to hold him indefinitely pending the filing of charges and an eventual trial. Duke University officials asked me to intervene because I am a longstanding friend of Armenia and because my wife, Senator Elizabeth Dole, is an alumna and former trustee of the university. Elizabeth and I remain prominent supporters of your country, but the issues raised by Yektan's detention go beyond our ties to Armenia and past support by raising questions about Armenia's democratic progress and commitment to the rule of law. Yektan's detention would seem to highlight problems cited in numerous human rights reports about Armenia, including those of Freedom House and the U.S. State Department. Freedom House, upon which Members of Congress rely to evaluate requests for U.S. aid, does not rank Armenia as a democracy, and further lowered its already unflattering "partly free" rating last year due to your government's mistreatment of opposition leaders and supporters. Your detention of Yektan for seven weeks on any grounds would draw attention to failings in Armenia's democratic evolution. To detain him on grounds as dubious as these calls into question Armenia's commitment to democracy in the first place. Yesterday, I was pleased to learn that Dr. Vartan Gregorian has offered to post bail for Yektan, but allowing bail only addresses the symptoms resulting from the larger issues at stake in this case. I urge you to investigate the actions of your government, prosecutors and police and release Yektan at once. I also urge you to ask your legislature to examine this strange law, which, if not unique in the world, is certainly unique in the community of free nations. Your treatment of Yektan makes Armenia look bad--with good reason. Armenia has many friends in the United States, but we cannot and will not defend the indefensible. Thank you for your consideration, and good luck in your continuing service to the people and nation of Armenia. Sincerely, BOB DOLE cc: Ambassador John Evans U.S. Embassy 18 Marshal Bagramyan Yerevan, Armenia Facsimile: 011-3741-52-0800 Armenian National Committee of America Mr. Aram Hamparian, Executive Director 888 17th St., N.W., Suite 904 Washington, D.C. 20006 Facsimile: 202-775-5648 Armenian Assembly of America Mr. Bryan Ardouny, Executive Director 1140 19th St., N.W., Suite 600 Washington, D.C. 20036 Facsimile: 202-638-4904 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 I agree with Bob Dole, however I don't think that Armenian law is obscure. Most European countries have laws on protection of the cultural heritage of the respective country. That means that artifacts and items with recognized national value are subject to special treatment (usually permit from the Ministry of Culture) when they are transferred abroad, be it as a personal property or for the purpose of temporary exhibition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hytga Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 he calls on kocharian to uphold the rule of law, yet that's exactly what's being doen and exactly why yektan got detained. I agree with Gam, the rule isn't obscure. Maybe they should release him, maybe not i have a divided opinion on this, but i find dols article as short minded and arrogant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 he calls on kocharian to uphold the rule of law, yet that's exactly what's being doen Of all American concepts in general (Ford, GM and Human Resources included) the concept of Rule of Law is the ugliest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 (edited) I was just about to write about the subject. Then I saw the letter by our best friend Ropert Dolian and his lovely wife Yeghisapet. Armenians have never had better friends. And as you can see from the tone of his epistle; it is from a concerned friend. It brings to mind the old adage; No man is an island. Yerevan IS an island in a very turbulent ocean, and it may be time WE relize this. "Yektan's detention would seem to highlight problems cited in numerous human rights reports about Armenia, including those of Freedom House and the U.S. State Department. Freedom House, upon which Members of Congress rely to evaluate requests for U.S. aid, does not rank Armenia as a democracy, and further lowered its already unflattering "partly free" rating last year due to your government's mistreatment of opposition leaders and supporters. Your detention of Yektan for seven weeks on any grounds would draw attention to failings in Armenia's democratic evolution. To detain him on grounds as dubious as these calls into question Armenia's commitment to democracy in the first place." Ever since I saw this story pictures of Midnight Express have been dancing in my head. Ssssshhh! Keep quiet! Lest our "friends" west of the River Arax get a hold of it and reverse it to read "Express Midnight" just as they have almost convinced the world of IDIOTS that they were the genocidees and we were the genociders. I join Bob and call on whoever to let the guy go before the incidenct blows up in our "cheeks", both above our necks and below our belts. PS. I have personally witnessed the "vigilence" of the airport inspectors trying to extract some spending money declaring worthless trinkets as "national treasures". Only if they knew where the majority of our "national ttreasures" are being held as hostage. How about museums of Istanbul, Ankara, London, Paris Moscow, and Saikt Petersburg(?) What a stupid name for a Russian city!!! Why did those idiots rename Leningrad St Petersburg? Don't they know "burg" is not a Russian word? Was not Petrograd, as it was called before Lenin good enough? Was it meant to fool the world that Russia is a Christian country with their "saints"? The city was named for Tsar Peter the Great, not St. Peter!! Whoever that latter moron may be!! Edited August 6, 2005 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 I agree with Bob Dole, however I don't think that Armenian law is obscure. Most European countries have laws on protection of the cultural heritage of the respective country. That means that artifacts and items with recognized national value are subject to special treatment (usually permit from the Ministry of Culture) when they are transferred abroad, be it as a personal property or for the purpose of temporary exhibition. style_images/master/snapback.png Over a year or more ago, a foreign citizen was detained and illtreated in Turkey because of a similar law, the guy actualy even went posting in a Turkish board because of his anger of what happened. But at least, that guy was released. I don't think the law is obscure, but I think the researcher was in prison for long enough, it's time to release him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 Arpa, While I respect Bob Dole and his wife, I am clearly on the "other side of the fence politically." I have been honest about my American political leanings, even my being enamored by a Republican, John McCain. His personal story is one that is just awesome. To have spent five years in an enemy prison and to then have risen to become a US Senator. What Karl Rove did to him in South Carolina in 2000 shows what low-lifes are running the country (US). You have finally come out of your Republican closet. You are either an elected Republican Armenian or an ardent supporter of the US Republican Party. I agree that the researcher from Duke Univ. should be released IMMEDIATELY. This is the work of the succesor to the KGB. The Russians who do not want any rapproachement between Armenia and Turkey, lest Armenia drift more into the US sphere of influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hytga Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 US Senate Leader to Armenia: Set That Turk Free Immediately Former US Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole, known as a political ally of the Armenian cause, has reportedly written a letter of protest to Armenian President Robert Kocharian demanding the immediate release of Turkish citizen Yektan Turkyilmaz, who is currently being held in Yerevan on charges of trying to smuggle antique books out of the country. Turkyilmaz went to Armenia to make historical studies in archives. Turkish historians argue that no Turk can make any trip to Armenia after this case. Nilgun Gulcan from ISRO for instance says "the case is not legal but political". Former US Senator Dole's letter to Kocharian asserts that Turkyilmaz, who is a doctorate student at Duke University, and who has been held in Yerevan since June 17, is being held in prison based on "unintelligable charges." Where did that law come from? Dole also said in his letter to Kocharian that "even if the same law is found somewhere in the world, it is certainly not found in free countries." The former US senator also noted that "while Armenia has many friends in the US, there is no way to defend the undefendable." His wife was affected Bob Dole's wife Elizabeth Dole, also a Duke University graduate, also apparently played a large role in encouraging his writing of the Kocharian letter. Dr. Gulcan says Armenians do not want to see any Turk in Yerevan: "They know that scientific searches will prove the sins in Armenian history. That's why they do not want to see any Turk in Armenia. They have many things to hide, including Armenian role in Nazi attacks against Jewish people". JTW with Hurriyet 9 August 2005 the way these guys use and present things makes your head spin from laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armjan Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 (edited) dude, why does this freakin glue guy hate armenians so much... what a loser, i hope his kids grow up and leave him stranded. where the hell did this bum get his ideas from... turks had more to do with Nazism than armenians "Dr. Gulcan says Armenians do not want to see any Turk in Yerevan: "They know that scientific searches will prove the sins in Armenian history. That's why they do not want to see any Turk in Armenia. They have many things to hide, including Armenian role in Nazi attacks against Jewish people"." Edited August 9, 2005 by armjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 This is all part of the game that they have been playing for many years. Where did they conjure this crap about Armenian Nazis? When did Armenians ever kill Jews like the Turks who let a boatful of Jews drown in the Black Sea during WWII?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 dude, why does this freakin glue guy hate armenians so much... what a loser, i hope his kids grow up and leave him stranded. where the hell did this bum get his ideas from... turks had more to do with Nazism than armenians style_images/master/snapback.png While in the majority of countries, PhD is a mark of credibility, it seems that it isen't the same for Turkey. The number of fools, with a Dr. title that have made such statments, it shows the level of credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamigon Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Presumably they are referring to Generals Dro and Nzhdeh, who, unfortunately, in their (understandable) anti-Soviet zeal, made the (not understandable, in my opninion) decision to collaborate with the Nazis, apparently in exchange for some post-war rewards for "liberated" Armenia. Not a proud part of our history. But also not what some of the Turks and their nutcase apologists like crazy as a coot Sam Weems would have it -- they make it sound like most Nazis were Armenians, and most Armenians were Nazis. Not the case, of course. Still, it is sad that any were. This is all part of the game that they have been playing for many years. Where did they conjure this crap about Armenian Nazis? When did Armenians ever kill Jews like the Turks who let a boatful of Jews drown in the Black Sea during WWII?. style_images/master/snapback.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Presumably they are referring to Generals Dro and Nzhdeh, who, unfortunately, in their (understandable) anti-Soviet zeal, made the (not understandable, in my opninion) decision to collaborate with the Nazis, apparently in exchange for some post-war rewards for "liberated" Armenia. Not a proud part of our history. But also not what some of the Turks and their nutcase apologists like crazy as a coot Sam Weems would have it -- they make it sound like most Nazis were Armenians, and most Armenians were Nazis. Not the case, of course. Still, it is sad that any were. style_images/master/snapback.png The thing is that the collaboration hasen't really gone over the prisoners of wars. The list of those enrolled show us that not more than Georgians there was, and a lot less than Tartars, Azeris etc. Armenians like Georgians were sent elsewhere because of the NAZI mistrust. And the front they "fought" was nearly "Jewish-free" for them to have participated in the destruction of European Jewry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamigon Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Agreed. I just wish that Armenians in general would be a little bit more open about Dro and Nzhdeh. Acknowledge that they were heroes for saving Armenia in 1918 or thereabouts and judge them harshly for collaborating with the Nazis, whatever their motives. The thing is that the collaboration hasen't really gone over the prisoners of wars. The list of those enrolled show us that not more than Georgians there was, and a lot less than Tartars, Azeris etc. Armenians like Georgians were sent elsewhere because of the NAZI mistrust. And the front they "fought" was nearly "Jewish-free" for them to have participated in the destruction of European Jewry. style_images/master/snapback.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hytga Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Agreed. I just wish that Armenians in general would be a little bit more open about Dro and Nzhdeh. Acknowledge that they were heroes for saving Armenia in 1918 or thereabouts and judge them harshly for collaborating with the Nazis, whatever their motives. even if those were to liberate armenia from soviet rule? it's not like they commited any crimes against humanity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamigon Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Once you put on a Nazi uniform you are associating yourself in no uncertain terms with all that goes with them, including their crimes against humanity. Look, I know this is not cut and dry stuff -- no one would say that the Armenians who fought bravely against the Nazis for the Soviet Union should be associated with Stalin's crimes, for example. But Dro and Nzhdeh and some of the other fools who were trying to establish the Armenians' "Aryan" pedigree knew what they were doing and with whom they were doing it. But my understanding of things is that the actual role they played in the war was negligible. even if those were to liberate armenia from soviet rule? it's not like they commited any crimes against humanity style_images/master/snapback.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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