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Everybody

 

Official update on the Rambouillet meeting, near Paris. The following article is in french and reports "total absence of progress from the negotiations" (the title).

 

This is a very bad news!

 

A.

PS: Sorry for those who don't understand french. Translations or english equivalents should get on on the web or groong in a few hours!

 

 

 

Karabakh: absence totale de progrès dans les négociations (officiel)

AFP 11.02.06 | 19h06

 

Les médiateurs de l'OSCE ont fait part samedi de l'absence totale de progrès lors des négociations qui se sont tenues près de Paris entre les présidents arménien et azerbaïdjanais sur l'enclave disputée du Nagorny Karabakh, renvoyant à un réexamen du dossier début mars à Washington.

 

"Malgré d'intenses discussions, les positions des parties sur certains principes sensibles sont demeurées identiques à ce qu'elles avaient été au cours des derniers mois", indique un communiqué du Groupe de Minsk (Russie, France, Etats-Unis) de l'Organisation pour la coopération et la sécurité en Europe (OSCE).

 

"Cependant les présidents, qui ont hautement apprécié le processus en cours, ont donné instruction à leurs ministres, assistés des coprésidents (du groupe de Minsk), d'explorer de nouvelles voies en vue d'un futur règlement", poursuit le communiqué, sans plus de précisions.

 

Les médiateurs russe, français et américain "se réuniront à Washington début mars pour des consultations entre leurs trois pays, pour examiner les modalités de leurs futures discussions avec les ministres", conclut le communiqué.

 

Les présidents Robert Kotcharian (Arménie) et Ilham Aliev (Azerbaïdjan) se sont retrouvés vendredi et samedi en tête-à-tête et à huis clos au château de Rambouillet (Yvelines) pour tenter de poser les bases d'un futur règlement négocié.

 

Le communiqué ne précise pas si les présidents ont rejeté, totalement ou partiellement, le scénario proposé par l'OSCE. Ce dernier prévoyait un retrait graduel des forces arméniennes des territoires azerbaïdjanais occupés et un vote, dans un avenir indéterminé, sur le statut futur du Nagorny Karabakh.

 

Le Nagorny Karabakh est une enclave arménienne qui a fait sécession de l'Azerbaïdjan à l'issue d'un conflit qui a fait près de 25.000 morts et des centaines de milliers de déplacés, entre 1988 et 1994.

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These negotiations will continue to go nowhere until "the elephant" is removed from the negotiating room.

"The elephant" is the souls of the innocents who were killed in the Armenian heartland. How can one negotiate when this issue is not on the table?

 

Everybody

 

Official update on the Rambouillet meeting, near Paris. The following article is in french and reports "total absence of progress from the negotiations" (the title).

 

This is a very bad news!

 

A.

PS: Sorry for those who don't understand french. Translations or english equivalents should get on on the web or groong in a few hours!

Karabakh: absence totale de progrès dans les négociations (officiel)

AFP 11.02.06 | 19h06

 

Les médiateurs de l'OSCE ont fait part samedi de l'absence totale de progrès lors des négociations qui se sont tenues près de Paris entre les présidents arménien et azerbaïdjanais sur l'enclave disputée du Nagorny Karabakh, renvoyant à un réexamen du dossier début mars à Washington.

 

"Malgré d'intenses discussions, les positions des parties sur certains principes sensibles sont demeurées identiques à ce qu'elles avaient été au cours des derniers mois", indique un communiqué du Groupe de Minsk (Russie, France, Etats-Unis) de l'Organisation pour la coopération et la sécurité en Europe (OSCE).

 

"Cependant les présidents, qui ont hautement apprécié le processus en cours, ont donné instruction à leurs ministres, assistés des coprésidents (du groupe de Minsk), d'explorer de nouvelles voies en vue d'un futur règlement", poursuit le communiqué, sans plus de précisions.

 

Les médiateurs russe, français et américain "se réuniront à Washington début mars pour des consultations entre leurs trois pays, pour examiner les modalités de leurs futures discussions avec les ministres", conclut le communiqué.

 

Les présidents Robert Kotcharian (Arménie) et Ilham Aliev (Azerbaïdjan) se sont retrouvés vendredi et samedi en tête-à-tête et à huis clos au château de Rambouillet (Yvelines) pour tenter de poser les bases d'un futur règlement négocié.

 

Le communiqué ne précise pas si les présidents ont rejeté, totalement ou partiellement, le scénario proposé par l'OSCE. Ce dernier prévoyait un retrait graduel des forces arméniennes des territoires azerbaïdjanais occupés et un vote, dans un avenir indéterminé, sur le statut futur du Nagorny Karabakh.

 

Le Nagorny Karabakh est une enclave arménienne qui a fait sécession de l'Azerbaïdjan à l'issue d'un conflit qui a fait près de 25.000 morts et des centaines de milliers de déplacés, entre 1988 et 1994.

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These negotiations will continue to go nowhere until "the elephant" is removed from the negotiating room.

"The elephant" is the souls of the innocents who were killed in the Armenian heartland. How can one negotiate when this issue is not on the table?

 

When I`ve read the first line of your post, I really thought that for once you had something interesting to say, but apparently you had not.

 

The elephant is the republic of Artsakh, it should NOT be Armenia discussing with Azerbaijan about the future of Artsakh but Artsakh itself. Both Azerbaijan and Artsakh held a referundum on the issue of independence in December 1991, the previous declaration of independence from Azerbaijan was not according to the law, as those repeated declarations from Karabakh of secession or union with Armenia. Azerbaijan also adopted its constitution under the Soviet Act governing procedures for the secession of a republic from the Union adopted on April 3, 1990, and it was according to this procedure that both Artsakh and Azerbaijan held their referundum to declare their official independence.

 

This cases is a llegal one between Azerbaijan and Artsakh, which both used the same procedures to brake from the Federation, Armenia should only get involved in the negiations for the territories outside of the republic of Artsakh. Artsakh has legal grounds for its independences, not only for what happened in 1991, but also many other strong arguments. Azerbaijan already recognized Artsakh as part of Armenia in December 1, 1920, and all the successive attemps also after Lenins death.

 

Azerbaijan is not a fool, they know specifically that Artsakh has very strong arguments, and for those reasons they have from the beginning attempted to forbid Artsakh to take part in the negotiations and Armenia has always weakly fell in this trap. It should be, no Artsakh in the negotiations, NO negotiations. As simple as that. It has used the same ;egal means but was not recognized, this is a legal mistake from the international community which should be corrected.

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This will be my first post

 

I think that Azerbejian should forget about getting any land back as it wasn't theres to begin with.

 

Armenia lost alot of people during the war we didnt lose them for nothing, we won the war. and in no way they [the coward azerbejianis] will get anything back

 

hopefully no new war will start but all the people that fought for the land and died in the battle we can thank them for it

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This will be my first post

 

I think that Azerbejian should forget about getting any land back as it wasn't theres to begin with.

 

Armenia lost alot of people during the war we didnt lose them for nothing, we won the war. and in no way they [the coward azerbejianis] will get anything back

 

hopefully no new war will start but all the people that fought for the land and died in the battle we can thank them for it

Ohhhh yeah!!!! Hayastanci I couldn't agree with you more :)

 

And welcome!

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Here is an english version! Unfortunately, it sounds as if a second round of military operations is now highly probable and a matter of time!

 

A.

 

 

Armenia, Azerbaijan fail to reach agreement on disputed enclave

 

AP Worldstream; Feb 11, 2006

ANGELA CHARLTON

X-Sender: Asbed Bedrossian

X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor™ by CREN

 

The presidents of Armenia and Azerbaijan failed to reach agreement

Saturday after two days of talks on how to end a bloody conflict over

the enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh.

 

Hopes have been building in recent months for progress toward settling

the 18-year dispute, in which at least 30,000 people have been killed

and 1 million made refugees. But international mediators said the

presidents made little progress during talks at a chateau in a forest

outside Paris.

 

"Despite intensive discussions, the positions of the parties on some

difficult principles remained as they have been for some months,"

U.S., French and Russian mediators said in a statement.

 

Going into the talks, the mediators had called the meetings the most

important talks in years on Karabakh.

 

The sticking points were the future status of Nagorno-Karabakh and

whether Armenian forces would withdraw from the border region of

Kelbajar, said a source close to the discussions, speaking on

condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the talks.

 

The mediators, from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in

Europe's so-called Minsk Group, said the two presidents "highly

appreciate the ongoing process" of talks and had instructed their

foreign ministers to explore further prospects for a settlement in the

future.

 

The mediators will consider the question of more talks when they meet

in early March in Washington.

 

Azeri President Ilham Aliev and Armenian President Robert Kocharian

met one-on-one for two hours Friday night after broader talks with

U.S., French and Russian mediators, according to an official involved

in the discussions.

 

The foreign ministers, Armenia's Vartan Oskanian and Azerbaijan's

Elmar Mammadyarov, met with the mediators Saturday morning, before the

presidents resumed talks, the official said.

 

Armenian television reported that the atmosphere was tense going into

Friday's talks. Azerbaijan's Zerkalo newspaper reported that the two

presidents were considering a one-page document of principles upon

which a future peace accord could be based.

 

A decade of international mediation has failed to end the conflict,

which has scared off investors and hobbled peace efforts throughout

the strategic and oil-rich Caucasus region. The dispute has dominated

both countries' foreign policy since they became independent with the

1991 collapse of the Soviet Union.

 

Nagorno-Karabakh is inside Azerbaijan but populated mostly by ethnic

Armenians, who have run it since an uneasy 1994 cease-fire ended six

years of full-scale war. Sporadic border clashes among heavily armed

villagers on either side continue to kill scores of people a year.

 

French President Jacques Chirac, who met separately with both

presidents before their talks Friday, had expressed hope that the

talks would open "a new perspective for peace."

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  • 2 weeks later...
Shushi is a historical armenian city

 

Имею полное право не согласиться...))) Но не в этом суть.

Я все таки надеюсь что несмотря на все проблемы конфликт все таки решится мирным путем.

Мне очень хочется надеятся что обе стороны во главе с Алиевом и Кочаряном все таки придуд к единому соглашению.

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Имею полное право не согласиться...))) Но не в этом суть.

Я все таки надеюсь что несмотря на все проблемы конфликт все таки решится мирным путем.

Мне очень хочется надеятся что обе стороны во главе с Алиевом и Кочаряном все таки придуд к единому соглашению.

Fidan, siken, or whatever the f**k your name is. Speak Arnenian, or in the least English, or, better yet get the "siktir" out of here.

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Имею полное право не согласиться...))) Но не в этом суть.

 

If that is not the point, why are you bringing this up? What do you hope ot accomplish by saying this on an Armenian forum? I think of Gandzak (That is Gence for you) as an Armenian city, but I do not find Azeri forums and say this there. Why ? I think you know better.

 

 

Я все таки надеюсь что несмотря на все проблемы конфликт все таки решится мирным путем.

Мне очень хочется надеятся что обе стороны во главе с Алиевом и Кочаряном все таки придуд к единому соглаш

 

Welll, I do not know, but as far as I have seen, Ramil Safarov is a reflection of Azeri society as a whole.

 

Levon

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Fidan, siken, or whatever the f**k your name is. Speak Arnenian, or in the least English, or, better yet get the "siktir" out of here.

 

 

As far as I see I didn't insult you. I just tried to share my thoughts. About Ramil safarov. I don't want to offend you but normal person cannot kill someone unless he did something wrong. He offended Azerbaijan and azeris. That's why it happende.

And last. If noone understand russian here just tell me in normal way. Becouse i don't know armenian language and my english is'n very fluent. So I though you knew russian...

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As far as I see I didn't insult you. I just tried to share my thoughts. About Ramil safarov. I don't want to offend you but normal person cannot kill someone unless he did something wrong. He offended Azerbaijan and azeris. That's why it happende.

And last. If noone understand russian here just tell me in normal way. Becouse i don't know armenian language and my english is'n very fluent. So I though you knew russian...

Are you out of your mind. Normal people don't go around killing people in their sleep, because they are offended. Also normal people give others a chance to defand themselfs. He's not only a bucther but a coward, so are you for finding excuses for his savage action.

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I don't want to offend you but normal person cannot kill someone unless he did something wrong. He offended Azerbaijan and azeris. That's why it happende.

 

Incredible! And you are supposed to be a representative of a 'normal' Azeri? Assuming that he really did "offend", Azerbaijanis -- he deserved to get his head hacked off in his sleep? It is unfortunate that we have to use a sadistic murder of our compatriot to show the world exactly what we mean. You have a party declaring Safarov "man of the year", and the rest of the "normal" Azeri society justifies this sadism "oh poor guy, he saw much violence, and he was 'insulted' ".

 

By the way, by the admission of the savage himself, that statement of yours is total bullshit:

 

[safarov:] My army sent me to this training and being here I have to face the fact that two Armenian were learning with me and I have to say that because of personal effectiveness the feeling of animosity grow up in me. In the beginning we were greeting each other, rather to say they said hi to me, but I didn’t accept it and curiosity in the whole thing was that when they walked close to me they were mumbled something in Armenian and laughed at me. That was the time when I decided that I will kill these two persons, the Armenians, I will cut their head off.

 

 

 

And now agree with Arpa's greeting for you -- 100%. I guess he already felt what was comming.

Edited by skhara
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I don't wanna speak about Safarov here. Maybe becouse I don't know everything...

Shushi in azeri is Shusha... Not very different:)

By the way I wanted to know how you call other cities in Karabakh...

Hope we will speak normally without offending each other...

How can you have a normal discussion with us with that kind of mentality. One minute you say he had a reason to kill an innocent sleeping person and then I don't wanna speak about safarov.

At least you can start by saying that, what that animal did was wrong instead of making him man of the year.

As Arpa said before us, either come clean like a normal human being or get lost in your jungle.

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For more on Safarov's Trial:

 

www.budapest.sumgait.info

 

As to what we call for we call cities in Artsakh:

 

Terter, Mardakert, Berdzor(Lachin), Stepanakert, Shushi, Shahumyan (Geranboi after occupation by azeris) ... So what is the point? All this can be found on internet maps ...

 

by the way, is it possible to open topic with photos of armena and especially Yerevan. My grandfather lived there till he was 2 or 3 years old...In 1918 they moved to Azerbaijan. Just never saw photos of this city...

 

You can google image "Yerevan" and find plenty of pics. Yerevan in pre soviet times resembles nothing to what it is today.

 

Levon

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Sorry for the language used but Azerbejiani people are ANIMALS.

 

It shows how they killed Gurgen Margaryan a perfect example of there whole race , i bet you if they had a chance they would do it to all the armenians........... but guess what we are here and we will stay for many more years

 

 

it's ok for the first time :)

Dranq mama chunen - MAyr@ TSnum e Zavakin kam D@ster@ isk dranq TC@rtum en

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About Ramil safarov. I don't want to offend you but normal person cannot kill someone unless he did something wrong. He offended Azerbaijan and azeris. That's why it happende.

 

I don't wanna speak about Safarov here. Maybe becouse I don't know everything...

 

i don't know if you can actually see yourself in contradiction with yourself?

or is it some kind of a defect found amongs many turks and azeris not to notice their contradictions? You've been presenting yourself as someone "peacful" wanting to have a decent discussion. What makes you think we'll actually change our minds about you. That lausy piece of excuse already showed what you are. so

get the siktir out of here
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