What Is The Attraction To Moslem Men?

[Sip]

Since the question asks what is the attraction to "muslim men", I think it would be pointless to discuss it based on "culture, history, and geography" alone. The fact that we are talking about "muslim" men demands that the Quran and the religion be brought into the picture.

 

[Shahan Araradian]

Ես իմ ըսելիքներս ըսի: Իմաստ չ'ունի նորէն կրկնելս: Ոչ ալ պարապ բանի մասին վիճաբանիլս... Ան որ ճամբորդէ կամ գործի միչոցավ բաւական մարդոց ծանօթանայ զանազան ազգերէ ու կրօնքներէ, ինքնաբերաբար կը սկսի բոլոր մարդկութեան յարգել: Եւ եթէ խումբ մը կայ որ չի յարգէր՝ այդ ալ անձնական փորձարութենէ կու գայ եւ ոչթէ այն ինչ որ հեռատեսիլէն լսեց...

 

Օրինակի համար ես Սիոնիզմի դէմ եմ որովհետեւ աւերակ դարձուցին Լիբանանը, որովհետեւ իմ շահած եւ վճառած ամերիկեան կարավարական տուրքերս կը գողնան պատերազմ մղելու Պաղեստին եւ Լիբանան, եւ քանի որ Ա.Մ.Ն.ը պատերազմի մէջ մտցուց ու հետեւաբար մեր կեանքերը Ամերիկայի մէջ ամէն օր վտանքի տակ են քանի որ Արաբները եւ այլ ժողովուրդներու արիւնին մէջ արդա՛ր վրէժխնդրութիւն կը փորփոքի: Նաեւ ժամանակին ատուելիք Սիոնական անգլերէնի ուսուցիչ մը ունէի որ իր աշակերտներուն ուղեղները փորցեց «լուալ» սիոնական պատմութեամբ, բայց այդ մէկը չի քալեց եւ ան որ քիչ մը խելք ունէր հասկցաւ թէ ինչ կը պատահի...

Edited June 15, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Anonymouse]

To recap:

 

The basic answer to the question of the thread is that women are attracted to Muslim men for the same reason they are attracted to assholes.

 

Many women like men who treat them like crap, are jerks, unreliable, and abusive (physically or verbally). Since Islam has treatment of women as secondclass codified in its creed, it would make sense.

 

You are so smart. I'm jealous. Why couldn't others be as gifted as you?

[nairi]

To recap:

 

The basic answer to the question of the thread is that women are attracted to Muslim men for the same reason they are attracted to assholes.

 

Many women like men who treat them like crap, are jerks, unreliable, and abusive (physically or verbally). Since Islam has treatment of women as secondclass codified in its creed, it would make sense.

 

So I'm assuming from this that you do not like to see women treated as secondclass. Am I right? If so, how would you like to see women treated? As equal to men? Ah! But that would be impossible in your anti-egalitarian world. What other alternative is there? That women become the dominant sex and men become secondclass? Ouch, that would deflect your masculine ego, and you would never let that happen. So what else is there? Treat women as they are inherently? And how are women inherently exactly? Oh yeah, they are all absent-minded, fickle, suffer from mood swings, and all the other things that men apparently do not suffer from, since men are great and wonderful and women are the exact opposite (you know, the weaker sex). Hence, women should, one way or another, be treated as being different from men, right? But what does this treatment imply?

[Sassun]

Since the question asks what is the attraction to "muslim men", I think it would be pointless to discuss it based on "culture, history, and geography" alone. The fact that we are talking about "muslim" men demands that the Quran and the religion be brought into the picture.

I disagree. Muslim men come from different cultures, and of course, Muslims come from the East - which in the minds of many if not most Americans and Europeans, is viewed from an Orientalist perspective. Thus, the attitude towards Muslims and Arabs also, is one of a mixture of fear and fascination towards not just the religion but also the culture, traditions, and practices... Of course, that fascination is based on (often negative or otherwise false) stereotypes of what "the Muslim" is like and what he feels/ thinks, etc. I maintain that culture is an important component within this attitude.... An Americanized/Westernized Muslim (different than "a Muslim living in USA/West") does not spark so much fascination , and where there is such fear-fascination, it is due to the fact that they have kept certain elements of their culture, some traditions, etc.

Edited June 15, 2007 by Sassun

[Anileve]

You know, in all honesty I don't know why this thread even exists. I really don't see that as a wildly spread phenomena. Usually the question is why women are attracted to jerks, which is a common occurrence and has been analyzed for ages. But why are women attracted to Muslim men? It sounds like so many are and that it's a trend...but I don't seem to know or hear of any. Muslim women tend to marry Muslim men because that's a part of the tradition, but other religions don't seem to be gravitating towards that diversion.

 

Is it just the question about the attraction like : How can any woman be attracted to a Muslim man?

 

So where did this question come from, are people around things I am not? That seems impossible, I am around everything, except for Armenians. ~ And I can't say that I mind.

 

 

 

[Anileve]

1. None of what I have is from any anti-Muslim site.

 

2.....

 

See, this is the one thing that I keep repeating over and over again. It's fascinating that most religious individuals seem to know zilch about their RELIGIOUS BOOK. They know the most popular stories which are being rehashed over and over again, but ask them about a particular passage or story which is not "popular"and they stare at you with absolute confusion. I just don't understand it. If you are so passionate about something shouldn't you know it inside out?

 

Certain people who are not even religious tend to know more about world religions that the people who are believers. Don't come to me and start preaching if you just know the story about the Crucifiction or how Muhammad lost his child.

 

 

Sassun, do you know why women are supposed to cover themselves up, where and how did it come about? Was it from God?

[Anileve]

You're so infuriating. I'm about to burst. All I think about day and night is how infuriating you are.

 

Now, get off your high horse and start reading some Eastern material, instead of relying solely on Euro-American sources. Speaking of otaramolutyun.

This is very funny.

[Anileve]

Here's another factoid .

 

In USA every 90 seconds a woman is raped.

Blame Islam !

Actually I would blame every single religion out there. Because all of them unanimously preach suppression and repression of sexuality; its sinfulness, along with the guilt that's automatically attached to it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sassun]

Sassun, do you know why women are supposed to cover themselves up, where and how did it come about? Was it from God?

Of course I know.

 

For starters, see Verse 31, Chapter 24 of the Qur'an.

 

First, the Hijab is a symbol of a woman's modesty. Second, the Hijab allows women to present themselves to society as human beings and not as "women". Since women's bodies cause sexual arousal (more than the other way around), then to safeguard a woman and also society from any ills, and to be able to function in society as an individual rather than a sex object, a woman should cover herself up.

 

[Sassun]

Actually I would blame every single religion out there. Because all of them unanimously preach suppression and repression of sexuality; its sinfulness, along with the guilt that's automatically attached to it.

Are you sure? Most rapists are the most unreligious of people. At least the ones in USA... Of course, I am not talking about the priest pedophilia cases. I am talking in general.

 

Islam does not suppress or repress sexuality. It is quite 'liberal' in that respect, certainly more liberal than the two other monotheistic religions. However, you seem to mean something different , you seem to be advocating total anarchy, no laws, no moral/societal expectations, etc. That is another issue altogether and one that goes beyond religion and its views of sexuality.

Edited June 15, 2007 by Sassun

[hijabbed]

To recap:

 

The basic answer to the question of the thread is that women are attracted to Muslim men for the same reason they are attracted to assholes.

 

Many women like men who treat them like crap, are jerks, unreliable, and abusive (physically or verbally). Since Islam has treatment of women as secondclass codified in its creed, it would make sense.

Wow you guys are pretty damn racist.

fyi, the treatment of women in islam isnt 2nd class. get yo facts right.

 

The following should give you an insight into the status of a wife/women in islam.

[im not preaching, just tryna get rid of the stereotypes and misunderstandings]

 

"The Holy Prophet has said: O people, your wives have a certain right over you and you have certain rights over them. Treat them well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. (Tirmidhi)" (quote)

 

"Fair dealings and good behaviour is necessary towards everyone, but the Prophet , emphasised it especially towards women."

 

"Kindness to the wife, an aspect of faith"

 

The best men are those...

"The believers who show the most perfect faith are those who have the best disposition and the best of you are those who are best to their wives " (Tirmidhi)

 

i quote again, im not preaching.i just find it irratating when poeple act so ignorant.

 

[Sip]

Are you sure? Most rapists are the most unreligious of people. At least the ones in USA... Of

 

I would just love to know where you pulled this fact out of. I am almost bursting like Nairi to find out just how you came to this AMAZING conclusion.

[Sassun]

I would just love to know where you pulled this fact out of. I am almost bursting like Nairi to find out just how you came to this AMAZING conclusion.

Now you are interested in finding out where the facts came from? How about you prove the opposite claim, which you & others have been making? Or there is no need to prove anything when it comes to bashing religion?

[Sip]

Sassun, if you make a grand claim like that, YOU have the burden of proof. I have made no such claim. Please point out exactly what you are referring to. I have posed you an EXACT question and all of a sudden you are like eh oh eh no I eh you you yada yada back pedaling. Stand behind what you said with SOME reasoning or admit that again you are repeating your own version of propaganda about the US.

 

You really think what you have been exposed to is all facts about the US? I find it strange when people like you and Shahan accuse Americans of being brainwashed about other countires, why you and Shahan both display the exact same kind of behavior towards the US.

[Sassun]

Sassun, if you make a grand claim like that, YOU have the burden of proof. I have made no such claim. Please point out exactly what you are referring to. I have posed you an EXACT question and all of a sudden you are like eh oh eh no I eh you you yada yada back pedaling. Stand behind what you said with SOME reasoning or admit that again you are repeating your own version of propaganda about the US.

I am not back pedaling my friend. You have consistently claimed that religion is the cause of backwardness, bad acts, and so on. Anonymouse, whom you were cheering for, has also explicitly spoken about a 'causal' relationship between Islam and rape. Anileve has made the same claim about religion and rape. Only Anoushik distanced herself a bit from this claim.

 

Sip, it does not take rocket science to understand the nature of the problem of rape as being a phenomenon that transcends religion!!! Moreover, look up the statistics conducted about rape in metropolitan and non-metropolitan areas, and also religiosity in metropolitan and non-metropolitan areas, and you will see that high levels of religiosity do not coincide with high levels of rape, quite the opposite. In addition-get to know the most notorious of serial rape cases. None of the rapists seem to be too enthusiastic about religion. And then again, if you are basing your definition of "religiosity" on the idea that anyone can define "religion" according to his whims, and attach it to his acts with the express purpose of justifying them ("because God said so", when God did not say that, according to the religion in the name of which he claims to be raping the woman), then even someone who only knows that Jesus exists and does not know anything other than that about Christianity, can actually claim to be doing it "for Jesus". Does that make him religious, and moreover, does that prove a correlation betw. religion and rape ? Utterly unscientific.

Edited June 15, 2007 by Sassun

[Anonymouse]

So I'm assuming from this that you do not like to see women treated as secondclass. Am I right? If so, how would you like to see women treated? As equal to men? Ah! But that would be impossible in your anti-egalitarian world. What other alternative is there? That women become the dominant sex and men become secondclass? Ouch, that would deflect your masculine ego, and you would never let that happen. So what else is there? Treat women as they are inherently? And how are women inherently exactly? Oh yeah, they are all absent-minded, fickle, suffer from mood swings, and all the other things that men apparently do not suffer from, since men are great and wonderful and women are the exact opposite (you know, the weaker sex). Hence, women should, one way or another, be treated as being different from men, right? But what does this treatment imply?

 

Nope, not equal, because men and women can't be equal. They are different and they should be treated different, not necessarily in a degrading fashion like Islam. But you shouldn't worry, seeing as to how masculine you are you'd be treated right up there with the boys.

[Anonymouse]

I am not back pedaling my friend. You have consistently claimed that religion is the cause of backwardness, bad acts, and so on. Anonymouse, whom you were cheering for, has also explicitly spoken about a 'causal' relationship between Islam and rape. Anileve has made the same claim about religion and rape. Only Anoushik distanced herself a bit from this claim.

 

Sip, it does not take rocket science to understand the nature of the problem of rape as being a phenomenon that transcends religion!!! Moreover, look up the statistics conducted about rape in metropolitan and non-metropolitan areas, and also religiosity in metropolitan and non-metropolitan areas, and you will see that high levels of religiosity do not coincide with high levels of rape, quite the opposite. In addition-get to know the most notorious of serial rape cases. None of the rapists seem to be too enthusiastic about religion. And then again, if you are basing your definition of "religiosity" on the idea that anyone can define "religion" according to his whims, and attack it to his acts with the express purpose of justifying them ("because God said so", when God did not say that, according to the religion in the name of which he claims to be raping the woman), then even someone who only knows that Jesus exists and does not know anything other than that about Christianity, can actually claim to be doing it "for Jesus". Does that make him religious, and moreover, does that prove a correlation betw. religion and rape ? Utterly unscientific.

 

I never said there is a causal relationship between Islam and rape. There is, however, a correlation. You are intentionally lying as to what I claim. How dishonest of you. Doesn't Islam have something against intentional dishonesty? You should find a direct quote from me where I said there is a causal relationship between Islam and rape. Moreoever, what's even funnier is how you used both claims of "causation" and "correlation" referring to the other side. Which is it? Are you saying that I claimed there is causation or correlation? Get your argument coherent before posting.

 

Now, it doesn't take a retard to figure out that Islam has codified shitty treatment of women. For every passage you can dig from the Koran that praises women, I can dig one that's the opposite. As far as rape, do you not think the incentive for rape is increased by the silly requirement that a woman who has been raped must produced four male witnesses who witnessed the crime otherwise she is incriminating herself? That seems silly.

[Sassun]

I never said there is a causal relationship between Islam and rape.

Next time be sure to write down on a notepad what you wrote.

 

I wrote:

 

Prove to me that there is a causality between Islam and these actions.

 

You replied:

 

Are you joking? You actually want me to make direct links between what Islam teaches and its oppression of women? Let's see, womens testimony are worth half that of a man (2:282), men may marry up to four wives and have sex with slave girls (4:3) and what was discussed earlier that a son's inheritance should be twice the size of the daughter (4:11) And in the hadith Muhammed permits the beating of women in such cute quotes as "A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife." Or how about the story of when a lady sought justice from Muhammed when she complained to Aishah of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating. And when Aisha expressed that this woman who was a believer had suffered so much, Muhammed was unmoved by this and nor does Muhammed reprimand the husband when he appears. In fact he makes no mention of it at all. Hell, Muhammed even struck Aisha herself later. And why should't he?

 

Where in that reply did you challenge my usage of the term causality? And moreover, if you had had a problem with it, why did you actually respond to that? If you were not arguing about causality, you would have seen no need to 'demonstrate' your point in response to my reply. Why now, all of a sudden, you make a fuss about "causality" vs "correlation"? Is it because you cannot discuss something without a string of ad hominems?

 

I can dig one that's the opposite.

Only when you can actually read Arabic, to be able to read the Qur'an "as is", rather than some inaccurate translations by people who are not even religious scholars or for that matter historians or linguists. Or at the very least, base your understanding on the explanations of verses by clerics. Viewing the explanations of Qur'anic verses provided by clerics (some available in English also), would enable you to have a grasp about the range of interpretations, as well as definitions of "vague" terms in the Qur'an. But instead you cite me Churchill & Von Mises, and pseudo-academics like Bernard Lewis and Bat Ye'or. ABOUT THE QUR'AN. And if you cannot do any of my suggestions, then may I suggest that you shut the hell up and go and busy yourself with heaping praises on the U.S constitution and alleged U.S "secularism"?

 

As far as rape, do you not think the incentive for rape is increased by the silly requirement that a woman who has been raped must produced four male witnesses who witnessed the crime otherwise she is incriminating herself? That seems silly.

First, the "4 witnesses" thing is a myth. Which CLEARLY proves, beyond the shadow of a doubt (if there ever was a doubt, that is), that you have NO CLUE about Islam. And moreover, why are you asking ME, you asked the question, if you are arguing that it (your "4 witnesses" myth) does, then please prove a correlation between it and rape.

Edited June 15, 2007 by Sassun

[nairi]

Nope, not equal, because men and women can't be equal. They are different and they should be treated different, not necessarily in a degrading fashion like Islam. But you shouldn't worry, seeing as to how masculine you are you'd be treated right up there with the boys.

 

Like I said: Islam suits you very well. It too likes to make gross generalizations between groups of human beings, instead of treating each person as an individual. As to my so-called masculinity, you have obviously not met many women in your life.

[Sip]

I am not back pedaling my friend. You have consistently claimed that religion is the cause of backwardness, bad acts, and so on.

 

Specifics ... you are making general statements about specific things I have said. I asked you for a proof for a direct statement of "fact" that you made.

 

Anonymouse, whom you were cheering for, has also explicitly spoken about a 'causal' relationship between Islam and rape. ..

 

Anon and I also disagree on many things. Whenever I have "cheered" him, it has been for specific statements or certain posts. Just because I agree with him on one thing, it doesn't mean I will necessarily agree with him on another thing (look in an evolution thread for example ) As far as "causal relationships between Islam and Rape", my view has been that many interpretations of Islam allow the husband to have sex with his wife whenever he wishes (even if she doesn't). Now I know you don't agree with that as that is highly immoral. But as much as you have been wanting to claim Islam is some sort of Universal Truth, it is still something that is subject to a wide range of interpretations. THAT is the problem with religion .. in that it is never "absolute". It is always subject to interpretation. Some interpretations are better than others of course

 

 

Sip, it does not take rocket science to understand the nature of the problem of rape as being a phenomenon that transcends religion!!!

 

So why do you make the conclusoin that "rapists in the US are necessarily unreligious"? Why in the US? If rape transcends religion (as you claim), shouldn't rapists everywhere be considered "unreligious" by your standards? Why did you make it sound like the rapists in the US are somehow worse than rapists in other places?

[Sip]

Islam does not suppress or repress sexuality.

 

http://static.flickr.com/91/265440169_7a805b4a59_o.jpg

 

Not at all ... Islam doesn't repress sexuality AT ALL. Yay I can see an ankle in this picture! By the way, aren't they supposed to have their ankles covered too? I thought Islam had some specific rules about disallowing foot fetishes and women allowing strangers from seeing their ankles ... or is it only that ankle bracelets cannot be seen?

[Yervant1]

Sorry guys couldn't help myself,

Hey Sip those ladies are they twins?

[Anonymouse]

Like I said: Islam suits you very well. It too likes to make gross generalizations between groups of human beings, instead of treating each person as an individual. As to my so-called masculinity, you have obviously not met many women in your life.

 

You speak as if treating each person like an individual is somehow apart from what we observe as general patterns. One does not need to meet many women to smell the masculinity in one woman.

Edited June 15, 2007 by Anonymouse

[Anonymouse]

http://static.flickr.com/91/265440169_7a805b4a59_o.jpg

 

Not at all ... Islam doesn't repress sexuality AT ALL. Yay I can see an ankle in this picture! By the way, aren't they supposed to have their ankles covered too? I thought Islam had some specific rules about disallowing foot fetishes and women allowing strangers from seeing their ankles ... or is it only that ankle bracelets cannot be seen?

 

Is that the Islamic version of the KKK?