What Is The Attraction To Moslem Men?

[Sip]

You're so infuriating. I'm about to burst. All I think about day and night is how infuriating you are.

 

I think you two should have sex

[Shahan Araradian]

I know exactly what you mean. There are far too many people in the world today killing in the name of Allah and Jesus.

...and Yahweh & Zion...

Edited June 14, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[nairi]

I think you two should have sex

 

So do I. But not before I see you and Azat getting it on.

[Anonymouse]

You're so infuriating. I'm about to burst. All I think about day and night is how infuriating you are.

 

Now, get off your high horse and start reading some Eastern material, instead of relying solely on Euro-American sources. Speaking of otaramolutyun.

 

This is yet another gargantuan assumption on your part. You have no idea what I have read or haven't, but because of my view, it must be so that I haven't read anything else. That's pretty myopic for someone who claims to champion open-mindedness.

[Anonymouse]

I think you two should have sex

 

Is that the Freudian explanation? That there is some sort of repressed sexual tension here? Please...that would be uncivilized.

[nairi]

This is yet another gargantuan assumption on your part. You have no idea what I have read or haven't, but because of my view, it must be so that I haven't read anything else. That's pretty myopic for someone who claims to champion open-mindedness.

 

My assumptions don't fall from the sky. You're free to prove me wrong.

[Anonymouse]

My assumptions don't fall from the sky. You're free to prove me wrong.

 

Assumptions don't need to fall from the sky, if they can also come from where the sun don't shine.

 

Proving you wrong is like teaching a person with missing chromosomes how to add them. It's impossible. You are like a Gargoyle statue set in stone on an old Gothic castle.

[Anonymouse]

So do I. But not before I see you and Azat getting it on.

 

What!

 

I see you are finally learning how to insult me Dutchess from Holland.

[Anonymouse]

To recap:

 

The basic answer to the question of the thread is that women are attracted to Muslim men for the same reason they are attracted to assholes.

 

Many women like men who treat them like crap, are jerks, unreliable, and abusive (physically or verbally). Since Islam has treatment of women as secondclass codified in its creed, it would make sense.

[Shahan Araradian]

To recap:

 

The basic answer to the question of the thread is that women are attracted to Muslim men for the same reason they are attracted to assholes.

 

Many women like men who treat them like crap, are jerks, unreliable, and abusive (physically or verbally). Since Islam has treatment of women as secondclass codified in its creed, it would make sense.

Have some more respect and humanity towards people who you have not even met, instead of parroting the propaganda you've been fed on American television in Los Angeles.

 

Respecting your fellow human, regardless of his/her traditions, is the only way to a peaceful world. Such words of hatred only continue the cycle of violence.

 

Create your own world view through personal, first-hand experiences instead of what you may read in corporate and Zionist-controlled media. It's not an easy task when you're constantly bombarded with so much television and media all trying to convince you of their view point (that is for THEIR interests), I know...

Edited June 14, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Anonymouse]

Have some more respect and humanity towards people who you have not even met, instead of parroting the propaganda you've been fed on American television in Los Angeles.

 

Wow, looks like we have another self-styled "tolerant" person who is so "open minded". I guess when such people confront contrarian views, those people who hold such views are ipso facto under the spell of "American propaganda". Here you are defending one of the most rigid and conservative religions urging others to be "tolerant". Little do you realize, this religion does not share the same sense of tolerance that you do.

 

Respecting your fellow human, regardless of his/her traditions, is the only way to a peaceful world. Such words of hatred only continue the cycle of violence.

 

I do not respect fellow humans or anyone simply because they are there. I do not simply hand out "respect" like business cards. Respect is earned, and I will only show it when they earn it. This notion that we should have respect by default is sickly and virulent. Get over yourselves and your holier-than-thou attitudes.

 

Create your own world view through personal, first-hand experiences instead of what you may read in corporate and Zionist-controlled media. It's not an easy task when you're constantly bombarded with so much television and media all trying to convince you of their view point (that is for THEIR interests), I know...

 

For someone who doesn't know me nor my views you sure assume alot. You immediately assume I'm a fan of American media or that I don't know who is a Zionist. That's the problem with the internet. A few people can read about a few articles about Zionist puppetmasters and suddenly everyone thinks they are Noam Chomsky able to critique ideological prisms.

Edited June 14, 2007 by Anonymouse

[Shahan Araradian]

Here you are defending one of the most rigid and conservative religions urging others to be "tolerant".

All religions are "rigid and conservative" if followed. Do you have any idea how "rigid and conservative" Judaism is? Or how "rigid and conservative" Christianity may be?

 

Little do you realize, this religion does not share the same sense of tolerance that you do.

Look at what is the REALITY in the world when you speak of tolerance:

 

What religion is followed by those who have built an apartheid state in Palestine and who are suffocated the Palestinians?

Answer: Judaism

 

What religion is followed by those who have attacked Iraq and have cost hundreds of thousands of innocent lives?

Answer: Christian and Judaism (fueled by Zionist and Jewish interests)

 

Which religion was against the attack on Iraq?

Answer: Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. (NOT Zionism)

 

You see, it's not really a function of RELIGION. It is a function of local CULTURE, of the particular value system of a PEOPLE. Not Christian vs. Islam vs. Judaism, but of the interests of various people: Zionists, Americans, Iranians, French, etc.

 

For someone who doesn't know me nor my views you sure assume alot. You immediately assume I'm a fan of American media or that I don't know who is a Zionist. That's the problem with the internet. A few people can read about a few articles about Zionist puppetmasters and suddenly everyone thinks they are Noam Chomsky able to critique ideological prisms.

Okay. Why don't you, then, describe your first-hand, personal experiences with Muslims that has led to your despise of Muslims?

 

BTW, how can you generalize across all Muslims? Can you generalize across all Christians? Of course not. For example, look at the belief system of French compared to Americans -- both are "Christian" countries, but how different are those two types of people... Or compare Norwegians to Germans to Greeks to Italians to Spaniards to Mexicans to Argentinians to Australians! How can you possibly place them all in one boat and label them "Christian"? Do you now see the ridiculousness of placing all Muslims in one boat???

 

Behavior is more of a function of local culture -- e.g. Lebanese vs. Iranian vs. Afghani vs. Saudi vs. Pakistani vs. Indian vs. Egyptian vs. Indonesian vs. Iraqi vs. Palestinian -- not so much of religion. What's highlighted in the media is "religion" and "Islam" in order to simplify everything for the average American and place all Muslims in the same boat. Hence, once you've established that Palestinians are "terrorists" then the whole world of Islam becomes a "terrorist" -- all of the people listed above...

 

Turn off the tube, travel the world, and start building a world view based on personal experiences -- not based on what Wolf Blitzer or Jim Lehrer claim.

Edited June 14, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Anonymouse]

Okay. Why don't you, then, describe your first-hand, personal experiences with Muslims that has led to your despise of Muslims?

 

BTW, how can you generalize across all Muslims? Can you generalize across all Christians? Of course not. For example, look at the belief system of French compared to Americans -- both are "Christian" countries, but how different are those two types of people... Or compare Norwegians to Germans to Greeks to Italians to Spaniards to Mexicans to Argentinians to Australians! How can you possibly place them all in one boat and label them "Christian"? Do you now see the ridiculousness of placing all Muslims in one boat???

 

Behavior is more of a function of local culture -- e.g. Lebanese vs. Iranian vs. Afghani vs. Saudi vs. Pakistani vs. Indian vs. Egyptian vs. Indonesian vs. Iraqi vs. Palestinian -- not so much of religion. What's highlighted in the media is "religion" and "Islam" in order to simplify everything for the average American and place all Muslims in the same boat. Hence, once you've established that Palestinians are "terrorists" then the whole world of Islam becomes a "terrorist" -- all of the people listed above...

 

Turn off the tube, travel the world, and start building a world view based on personal experiences -- not based on what Wolf Blitzer or Jim Lehrer claim.

 

This is silly. First point: I was talking about Islam and its codification of its second class treatment of the females. Second point: Humans by default generalize. We are used to thinking and imagining and perceiving in the general and broad terms. We learn by general associations. Why do you think stereotypes exist in the first place? It's not because stereotypes are not true, it's precisely because they are true which is why the exist to begin with. That whiney liberals and egalitarians are offended by stereotypes does not do any more to absolve them. What they do is latch on to exceptions to the rule and try to use that as a case against general patterns. Sadly for them, exceptions do not disprove the rule.

 

And once again you go on with your silly assumptions as if what I believe is a result of watching too much television or Faux Snooze channel (nevermind that I don't watch television period, but that makes for some sort of ammo in internet discussions. So when people who disagree with you or present a viewpoint that is somewhat of an outlier in terms of what your beliefs are then he must be brainwashed by American television propaganda. Traveling the world is not a prerequisite to talking about a certain topic. Don't turn into Siamanto.

[Shahan Araradian]

This is silly. First point: I was talking about Islam and its codification of its second class treatment of the females. Second point: Humans by default generalize. We are used to thinking and imagining and perceiving in the general and broad terms. We learn by general associations. Why do you think stereotypes exist in the first place? It's not because stereotypes are not true, it's precisely because they are true which is why the exist to begin with. That whiney liberals and egalitarians are offended by stereotypes does not do any more to absolve them. What they do is latch on to exceptions to the rule and try to use that as a case against general patterns. Sadly for them, exceptions do not disprove the rule.

 

And once again you go on with your silly assumptions as if what I believe is a result of watching too much television or Faux Snooze channel (nevermind that I don't watch television period, but that makes for some sort of ammo in internet discussions. So when people who disagree with you or present a viewpoint that is somewhat of an outlier in terms of what your beliefs are then he must be brainwashed by American television propaganda. Traveling the world is not a prerequisite to talking about a certain topic. Don't turn into Siamanto.

You have not answered my basic question:

 

Why don't you, then, describe your first-hand, personal experiences with Muslims that has led to your despise of Muslims?

 

If you don't have any such personal experiences, then what have you based your world view on re: Muslims?

 

I don't think you've interacted with enough Muslims and with enough peoples of the world in general. If you had, then you would think twice before generalizing across 1 billion people (1 out of 6 people on Earth).

Edited June 14, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Anonymouse]

You have not answered my basic question:

 

Why don't you, then, describe your first-hand, personal experiences with Muslims that has led to your despise of Muslims?

 

If you don't have any such personal experiences, then what have you based your world view on re: Muslims?

 

I don't think you've interacted with enough Muslims and with enough peoples of the world in general. If you had, then you would think twice before generalizing across 1 billion people (1 out of 6 people on Earth).

 

 

Where do you gather I despise Muslims? Please produce evidence of where I said I despise individuals Muslims. I do not have to despise Muslims to despise their creed. I do not need to interact with Muslims to read what is taught in their creed.

[Shahan Araradian]

Where do you gather I despise Muslims? Please produce evidence of where I said I despise individuals Muslims. I do not have to despise Muslims to despise their creed. I do not need to interact with Muslims to read what is taught in their creed.

I will consider your lack of response to the above question as a No.

 

Now try to answer the following:

 

Do you need to study the Bible in order to understand the essence of an American? a French? a Canadian? a German? an Armenian??

 

Similarly, what makes you think that by studying the Quran you will understand the essence of a Palestinian? a Lebanese Shia? an Iraqi Sunni? an Egyptian? a Syrian? an Indonesian? a Pakistani? an Iranian? a Turk? an Azeri?

 

In the real world, the way people behave has to do to a greater extent with other factors such as culture, history, and geography rather than the over-simplified "religion".

Edited June 14, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Anoushik]

Shahan, I know your post is not directed at me but I'd like to present my view in response to your question. Yes, I think that by studying the Bible, one can understand some part of what is the essence of a Christian American, a French, and a Christian Canadian. Christianity (like any religion) has a specific viewpoint about life and by studying Christianity (or the Bible) one gets a sense of what mindset its followers have. It similarly applies to Islam and its followers.

 

And yes, such factors as culture, history, and geography also dictate as to which religion (or viewpoint) people will follow. I've lately pondered about how it is that we, the Armenians, were the ones to accept Christianity, fight to keep it in our culture, and never gave up on Christianity despite horrible hardships.

[Sip]

The basic answer to the question of the thread is that women are attracted to Muslim men for the same reason they are attracted to assholes.

 

 

I think this summarized it best.

[Shahan Araradian]

Shahan, I know your post is not directed at me but I'd like to present my view in response to your question. Yes, I think that by studying the Bible, one can understand some part of what is the essence of a Christian American, a French, and a Christian Canadian. Christianity (like any religion) has a specific viewpoint about life and by studying Christianity (or the Bible) one gets a sense of what mindset its followers have. It similarly applies to Islam and its followers.

Yes. SOME part. But the bulk of it has nothing to do with religion. An American is defined more by the forces that have arisen out of a free-market economy: the corporation (the dominant institution of American life), television media (products of "media" corporations) that produce American culture... Christianity is hardly anywhere to be found in America, other than in small towns in the interior of the U.S.

 

I argue the same is true for Muslim countries, and it various from country to country. You cannot generalize the behavior of ALL muslims, just as you cannot generalize the behavior of ALL (not even a majority) of all Christians.

 

The world is much more complex than simplification fed by the American media to make it easy for Americans to understand...

 

And yes, such factors as culture, history, and geography also dictate as to which religion (or viewpoint) people will follow. I've lately pondered about how it is that we, the Armenians, were the ones to accept Christianity, fight to keep it in our culture, and never gave up on Christianity despite horrible hardships.

Հայոց պատմութեան մէջ՝ Քրիստոնեայ մնալը նոյնքան կարեւոր չէ եղած քան թէ Հա՛յ մնալը: Հայերը միշտ քրիստոնեայ չէ՛ն եղած: Հայերը ունեցած են քոնէ երեք տեսակ կրօնք պատմութեան ընթացքին՝ կրակապաշտութիւն, հայկական-յունական-պարսկական չաստուածներ, եւ այժմ՝ քրիստոնէութիւն:

 

Այս փաստ մըն է թէ հայուն «essence»ը քրիստոնէութիւնը չէ՛:

 

Այն ինչ որ այսօրուայ հայուն միչուկն է կրօնքը չէ՛, այլ՝ հայրենասիրութիւնը: Հայոց Զարթօնքը կրօնքի շարժում մը չէր: Մենք այսօր Զարթօնքին պտուղներն ենք: Զարթօնքը ԱԶԳԱՅԻՆ շարժում մըն էր -- լեզուի, մշակոյթի, պատմութեան, եւ ԱԶԳԱՅԻՆ ՇԱՀԵՐՈՒ: Ո՛չթէ ԿՐՕՆՔԻ:

Edited June 15, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Anoushik]

Yet our forefathers took Christianity and made it part of our culture. There was something in Christianity that they agreed with. That's my point.

[Shahan Araradian]

Yet our forefathers took Christianity and made it part of our culture. There was something in Christianity that they agreed with. That's my point.

Այո... Չորրորդ դարուն... Այսօր նոյնիսկ հայկական եկեղեցիներուն մէջ յիսուս շատ չէն քարոզեր: Ինչո՞ւ: Հայ քահանաները քանի որ պէտք է հայրենասէր ըլլան նա՛խ եւ յետոյ քրիստոնեայ: Եթէ ազգին «հովիւները» պիտի ըլլան՝ յիսուս քարոզելով պիտի չ'ըլլայ... Լաւ մարդ ըլլալ, ազգիդ եւ գաղութիդ մէջ գործօն ըլլալ՝ Այո՛: Բայց ապտակ ստանալ, եւ այլն՝ այդ տեսակի մտածումներ չէն քալեր իրական կեանքի մէջ: Անոնք միայն միամիտներու համար է: Եւ հայ միամիտ չենք ուզէր ստեղծել կը կարծեմ...

Edited June 15, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Sip]

Yes. SOME part. But the bulk of it has nothing to do with religion. An American is defined more by the forces that have arisen out of a free-market economy: the corporation (the dominant institution of American life), television media (products of "media" corporations) that produce American culture... Christianity is hardly anywhere to be found in America, other than in small towns in the interior of the U.S.

 

First off, I find it amazing how people leave out "hard work" when refering to the American culture. To most of the rest of the world, Americans are assumed to drink lates, have sex, shoot guns, and do drugs all day. I know the rest of the world doesn't want to admit it, but in general, the Americans are VERY hard working people. I also think you really need to get out of your Gay Area liberal lands and travel a bit in the US. I would suggest taking a drive from maybe Denver to Detroit (don't stray too far south at first or you might get a shock in how far off you really are about "Americans"). Just experience for yourself how amazingly vast this country is, and how hard the people it in work. How little they give a damn about your "Zion" or the rest of the world. You mention the corporations and the media (not surprising as that is all you see in a big urban area), but you somehow ignore the large farming and agricultural (e.g. corn) segments that litterly stretch for thousands of miles.

 

"Christianity" is hardly found in the US? Yah maybe in San Francisco. But San Francisco is not "US".

Edited June 15, 2007 by Sip

[Shahan Araradian]

but you somehow ignore the large farming and agricultural (e.g. corn) segments that litterly stretch for thousands of miles.

 

Yes. SOME part. But the bulk of it has nothing to do with religion. An American is defined more by the forces that have arisen out of a free-market economy: the corporation (the dominant institution of American life), television media (products of "media" corporations) that produce American culture... Christianity is hardly anywhere to be found in America, other than in small towns in the interior of the U.S.

 

[Sip]

Yah those tiny small little towns. Yet there are so many of them! Trust me, this is still a largly "Christian" population in the US even though it will be hard to find them in along the coasts.

[Anonymouse]

I will consider your lack of response to the above question as a No.

 

I already answered the following question. You assume I dislike Muslim people merely because I dislike and disagree with their creed. Therefore, you have still not offered evidence for your erroneous assumption that I dislike Muslims merely because they are Muslims. I do have a different opinion of them, and I certainly dislike fundamentalist Muslims. However, disliking ones creed is mutually exclusive from recognizing there are geniunely good people and Muslims with many good qualities that would dwarf folks I know who are Christians or Atheists.

 

Now try to answer the following:

 

Do you need to study the Bible in order to understand the essence of an American? a French? a Canadian? a German? an Armenian??

 

Yes you do because the Bible was a significant influence on the American Constitution and the inspiration behind it. This countries history is rooted in strict puritanical tradition and the Framers themselves were all really religious men! Before America became America, the puritans and pilgrims came over with the Bible in their hands, not John Locke. The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are both replete with references to God. From George Washington, to John Adams, to Thomas Jefferson, to James Madison - these were all very religious men who made no mistake of hiding their religion. By todays standards they would be dubbed fundamentalist, yet they produced one of the most advanced and ''ahead-of-their-time" legal documents. All the preambles to almost all the state constitutions make reference to God or creator in some way or form. I refer the reader to Colonial Origins of the American Constitution: A Documentary History

 

Similarly, what makes you think that by studying the Quran you will understand the essence of a Palestinian? a Lebanese Shia? an Iraqi Sunni? an Egyptian? a Syrian? an Indonesian? a Pakistani? an Iranian? a Turk? an Azeri?

 

 

What makes me think that? Oh, I don't know, because these peoples lives and laws and culture and society and consciousness have been throughly influenced by this creed? Knowing about Islam or reading the Koran would give you an idea into the essence of the people that follow it. It's simply horsepucky to claim otherwise for the sake of having something to argue with on an internet discussion forum. If I read about Shun Tzu's Art of War, or Confucius' Analects, or Lao Tsu's Tao Te Ching I would have insight into the kind of character and people and civilization the Chinese are.

 

You, in the haze of proving the other side wrong because how dare anyone express viewpoints that are contrarian, are creating artificial and arbitrary standards of what is knowledge in an attempt to back others up into a corner. In reality, all you have done is throw an intellectual boomerang which has come back to hit you. And my guess is you will respond with the same adamant crap about how you only have to deal with people to know about the creed, which, ironically, is the inverse of learning about the creed.

 

In the real world, the way people behave has to do to a greater extent with other factors such as culture, history, and geography rather than the over-simplified "religion".

 

I'm glad you are in the real world while the rest of us are trapped in the matrix and still trying to figure out which pill we should take.

Edited June 15, 2007 by Anonymouse