Twilight Bark Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 (edited) We are going into an argument of egoism. Having kids is a selfish concept: You want a dog, you like dogs, it makes you feel special and embodies you with feelings you haven't experienced before. To keep the feeling alive you reward it with care and sacrifice. It's still selfish. Maral this is not the case with you, but many people feel as if they should have kids because it is the right thing to do and to escape the crucifixion of the society because you don't live up to your human potential. Taking a chance of not having kids means a lot of judgments from everyone around you as well as annoying inquiries into your supposedly "abnormal" relationship or marriage. I feel as if at this moment no one really needs to have kids, if you want them because of your personal interests fine, if you don't that's fine to. style_images/master/snapback.png Hopefully the Me I see in the replies here will become smaller, and better balanced with the rest of existence as people mature. Edited October 15, 2004 by Twilight Bark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Hopefully the Me I see in the replies here will become smaller, and better balanced with the rest of existence as people mature. style_images/master/snapback.png time will tell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 I love kids... I'm too tired to say why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 I love kids... I'm too tired to say why. style_images/master/snapback.png ohh because we're all kids at heart Domino jan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 And equating having kids to getting a dog...absolutely absurd! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 And equating having kids to getting a dog...absolutely absurd! style_images/master/snapback.png I have both...they are not equal on any level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 I guess one can't understand having a child with someone you love if the union of marriage seems 'abnormal' anyways. style_images/master/snapback.png You misunderstood me Maral jan. I said that not having a child with someone as a result of your love union is considered "abnormal" by the mainstream morality. I am all for a personal choice of a preferred lifestyle without measuring it up to my ruler of morals. But I argued this concept of selfishness, where I said there are various degrees of something, (that reminds me that I have to reply to Sasun), perhaps not wanting to have kids is slightly more selfish. For example, my father said that he will not have any kids because he doesn't think he did a good job as it is. And I find that to be a lesser degree of selfishness, because I know he's right, because the result would not be positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Ooh, diapers. Yes, the big challenge Maral!!!!!! She's so cute!!!! My niece is about that age to and all I want to do when I see her is eat her up! But God forbid she live in my house!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 ohh because we're all kids at heart Domino jan. style_images/master/snapback.png No we are not. Kids are so innocent, they're the true philosophers but without needing to be wise... asking questions about everything, everything fascinate them, everything is magical without being insane. They have everything to learn. They are still not dogmatically formed by society to be conformists etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 (edited) Ooh, diapers. Yes, the big challenge Maral!!!!!! She's so cute!!!! My niece is about that age to and all I want to do when I see her is eat her up! But God forbid she live in my house!!!! style_images/master/snapback.png That pic is ok Nairi,but there is another on my fridge I have to scan and share...this is wrong to say,but she looks so sexy! I feel the same way about others children,can't wait till they take them home! Edited October 15, 2004 by Maral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Maybe there's also a difference between men and women. After all, it's the women who have to go through most of the (physical) trouble. Not all of us are looking forward to this. Not to mention the sleepless nights afterwards... It's so much easier being a man and wanting kids... style_images/master/snapback.png I know it may seem like I am jumping on my feminism wagon, but it really is much easier being a man and wanting kids. I remember telling some Hyastantsi guy I was seeing that I may consider having one and adopting one. He looked as if I just told him I am a lesbian. He said, "you know it's a really nice thing to say, and you must be a really good person to say it, but I don't think you want to adopt a child. There is nothing like your own, please think about it." I turned around and told him not to worry because I am not planning to marry him. It's so easy for him to just point his finger and say I want, but who delivers in the end? I always wonder what if men got pregnant how would things change? I think 2 things, either the birth rate would plummet severely or shoot through the roof. After all it's a lot of pain after some pleasure and sometime the latter is not sufficient enough to substitute the magnitude of the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 No we are not. Kids are so innocent, they're the true philosophers but without needing to be wise... asking questions about everything, everything fascinate them, everything is magical without being insane. They have everything to learn. They are still not dogmatically formed by society to be conformists etc... style_images/master/snapback.png well okkkkkk then,I stand corrected! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 I know it may seem like I am jumping on my feminism wagon, but it really is much easier being a man and wanting kids. I remember telling some Hyastantsi guy I was seeing that I may consider having one and adopting one. He looked as if I just told him I am a lesbian. He said, "you know it's a really nice thing to say, and you must be a really good person to say it, but I don't think you want to adopt a child. There is nothing like your own, please think about it." I turned around and told him not to worry because I am not planning to marry him. It's so easy for him to just point his finger and say I want, but who delivers in the end? I always wonder what if men got pregnant how would things change? I think 2 things, either the birth rate would plummet severely or shoot through the roof. After all it's a lot of pain after some pleasure and sometime the latter is not sufficient enough to substitute the magnitude of the former. style_images/master/snapback.png There is no much differences between adopting it or having one. What is important is that the kid is healthy and as well what you put in the hardware... what you and society transmit to that kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 When spirituality is forcefully removed from the society human beings get tired of everything. They get tired of traditional sex, traditional food, they want more and more facinating things. A new musical group is labled an old one just a month from its debute. The whole process of human development is being artificially accelerated. People move from one idea to the other and from one point of view to the next one simply being tired of the former. The ultimate necessity of an alternative in everything and everywhere has become the only path of rescuing onself form a mental deadlock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 as well what you put in the hardware. style_images/master/snapback.png Care to explain what you mean by that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 When spirituality is forcefully removed from the society human beings get tired of everything. They get tired of traditional sex, traditional food, they want more and more facinating things. A new musical group is labled an old one just a month from its debute. The whole process of human development is being artificially accelerated. People move from one idea to the other and from one point of view to the next one simply being tired of the former. The ultimate necessity of an alternative in everything and everywhere has become the only path of rescuing onself form a mental deadlock. style_images/master/snapback.png If you equate spirituality with Faith, you have have a point, but past that, I disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Care to explain what you mean by that? style_images/master/snapback.png The Hardware is the physical baby, the software is his/her mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 When spirituality is forcefully removed from the society human beings get tired of everything. They get tired of traditional sex, traditional food, they want more and more facinating things. A new musical group is labled an old one just a month from its debute. The whole process of human development is being artificially accelerated. People move from one idea to the other and from one point of view to the next one simply being tired of the former. The ultimate necessity of an alternative in everything and everywhere has become the only path of rescuing onself form a mental deadlock. style_images/master/snapback.png That's because we are specie which consistently gravitate towards “excess” instead of staying comfortable at the mean. I think that is what separates us from animals, they always live within their means, we are continuously striving for "more," constantly pushing our boundaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 I think that is what separates us from animals, they always live within their means, we are continuously striving for "more," constantly pushing our boundaries. style_images/master/snapback.png In terms of instincts that effectively makes us animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Ooh, diapers. Yes, the big challenge Yeah. Not even in top ten! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 When spirituality is forcefully removed from the society human beings get tired of everything. They get tired of traditional sex, traditional food, they want more and more facinating things. A new musical group is labled an old one just a month from its debute. The whole process of human development is being artificially accelerated. People move from one idea to the other and from one point of view to the next one simply being tired of the former. The ultimate necessity of an alternative in everything and everywhere has become the only path of rescuing onself form a mental deadlock. style_images/master/snapback.png and where did you copy and paste that from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 The Hardware is the physical baby, the software is his/her mind. style_images/master/snapback.png You'll discover this when the time comes, but the hardware comes with a lot of firmware (hardware masquarading as software ) wired in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Do most want to have kids so that they can leave something behind after they are gone? Are there other reasons? Is there anybody out there who just does not want any? style_images/master/snapback.png I don't want to have kids just so that I can leave something behind after I die. I want to have kids to make my life more meaningful and hope for a positive future. This also might be a selfish reason, just like Evelina says, but if you think about it every thing that we do in this life is selfish. If it wasn't selfish we wouldn't care about anything. Life would be completely meaningless. I want to have kids because I believe I've got some values that I'd like to give to the next generation. Next generation represents the future and if I don't think about the future then again, there is no point for me to live. I'm perfectly fine with adoption but I think it'd be important for me to have my child to grow up Armenian, and therefore I'd either adopt Armenian children or I'd give birth to Armenian children. Eve and Nairi, even though I think that a woman suffers a lot during pregnancy and birth I don't think it is a big factor when making a decision to have a child. Giving birth to a child takes only nine months but after that it takes an entire lifetime to care for the child. So either one wants that responsibility or one doesn't want that responsibility. PS. A couple of weeks ago I read a a great article in Time magazine on why being parents in this world means being optimists about the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 If you equate spirituality with Faith, you have have a point, but past that, I disagree. style_images/master/snapback.png I think Armen expressed a pretty good point Domino. And he is referring to the rate of change, not change itself. Faith basically favors (or to be fair I should say it doesn't mind) stagnation. The more general concept of "spirituality" is more open to change, but is incompatible with the "disposable" mentality. In any case, "spirituality" as used in the mainstream is such an amporphous concept that I am not sure it has any philosophical usefulness. Of course, one can define it operationally as "search for meaning outside of insatiable and ever-accelerating material ends and wants", to make it always conform to Armen's statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Shiner,did you get an answer yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.