Rubo

HI TB, thanks for helping us to coexist.I do appriciate that.I assumed maybe wrongly that forum envirnment is perfect to dibate and learn from eachother but so far it has become character slandering game.I do wish for a change people to stick with the subject at discussion and dibate like adults.It only alinates potential newcomers from participation since nobody would like to be called Khodja and crap on regular bases.I will only dibate ,any perssonal attack will be ignored.Cheers and yes lets do start afresh.

MJ“I have no problem neither with Jews nor with Israel. They are just irrelevant in the context of the past, the present and the future of our Nation. Our paths do not cross." First lets do examine this statement but before I do it pays to read the following. Argument from Ignorance Arguments of this form assume that since something has not been proven false, it is therefore true. Conversely, such an argument may assume that since something has not been proven true, it is therefore false. (This is a special case of a false dilemma, since it assumes that all propositions must either be known to be true or known to be false.) i. Since you cannot prove that ghosts do not exist, they must exist. ii. Since scientists cannot prove that global warming will occur, it probably won't. iii. Fred said that he is smarter than Jill, but he didn't prove it, so it must be false. Proof: Identify the proposition in question. Argue that it may be true even though we don't know whether it is or isn't. MJ conveniently ignores all past Jewish and Israeli involvement in our affairs reducing it to zero. Anybody who has read any Armenian newspaper last three years would know all the issues at hand. MJ does qualify to be a psychic since he boldly assumes that Israeli paths will not across ours. Since this argument is about the future and by its ambiguity of scenarios unknown one cannot make statements as such. On the other hand Israel may have a indirect involvement in possible conflict in Karabagh in shipment of arms via Turkey and intelligence assistance to Azerbaijan. It is really presumptuous to make statements that have no bases in the past and no known bases in the future but according to Thoth, MJ strives to higher intellectual properties of thinking that frankly I am having difficulty finding. In short Jews as any other people are not automatically assumed uninvolved or unimportant in our affairs when the evidence has proven otherwise.I expect for a change MJ to dibate and defend his position otherwise what is the value of writting slogans?

I had some time to get away from this forum and think about it. What is really disturbing, is how some core old boy mentality people on this forum have demonstrated time after time again that if not capable to debate then slander the person who raises real legitimate questions. Closest analogy is how political bureaucrats operate in Armenia regardless weather they are qualified for the job or not but was hired probably due to bribes or being cousin to some old fart. Mostly these incapable bureaucrats stifle the life force out of people and fresh views and whistle blowers hated with a vengeance, since it threatens their comfort redundant lifestyles. The similarities are striking. I raised legitimate points time after time on this forum but instead this guy MJ rather paint me some kind of Jew hater (didn’t work) or some fanatic (didn’t work either) and in the end preached the rest of the morally bankrupt not to debate with me, and why not? Are you that weak!! Are you intellectually that inferior? I don’t think so but the truth is I refuse to kiss ass and that is who I am never did never will. MJ assumes some kind of leadership role here? Nothing can be further from the truth. True leader encompasses, embraces all Armenians and would not alienate and trash others who think differently. I am certain that after this post I will get another stupid remarks by MJ and his cronies (what else to expect…) but I needed to say this anyway. It is sad that Ara Baliozian’s sentence has proven true time and again “Disagree with an Armenian and make an enemy for life”

quote:Originally posted by MJ:Domino, I can assure you that when I am enraged, you would see my rage knocking your door at the locations called "Don't know." P.S. And it wouldn't look like Christmas gift. You are a child MJ (read the above)and I was foolish enough to take you seriously. Looks like you got few die hard MJ cronies here as well, pathetic! Nothing sadder and worse then grown man saying “yes “ “I agree”-Boghos- “you are the higher caliber thinker bla bla”-Thoth to every childish mumblings you utter. It is really sad with exception of few I have not read anything original but predigested crap. Pity…

MJ”I have no problem neither with Jews nor with Israel. They are just irrelevant in the context of the past, the present and the future of our Nation. Our paths do not cross.” I do assume your hands off approach about issues concerning Armenians unimportant to me but when you say “They are just irrelevant in the context of the past, the present and the future of our Nation. Our paths do not cross.” You are now assuming the sole spokesperson speaking on Armenian behalves as what is relevant and what is not? For the record lets just look at the past and present issues with the Jews and I can assure you they are not figment of anybody’s imagination. 1. Israeli denial of AG 2. Jewish lobby efforts against AG recognition 3. Latest land issues concerning the Jerusalem patriarchy The land issue did get partially solved and thanks to concern Armenian activists which you shamefully call them schizophrenic on every opportunity. You hardly speak for Armenian interests and I do suggest dropping the posturing.

Azat jan, you saw it correct, the guy called me idiot and he said shot up to Nairi.Does this mean I must agree with everything like the most of the forum members with MJ so the "Tsar" does not get abset?I think for myself and MJ or whoever does not deter me of expressing my mind.

To the moderators It is ironic that Martin can easily and openly spam on this forum and yet I am yet to see someone with enough integrity to say something. Yes I am disappointed on the moderators selective censoring. Was it Domino just on the other thread talking about banning spamers?

MJ"Sine the day of his arrival, the only context that this corrupt idiot has brought to this forum has been "Israel and Jews." One might’ve noticed that this has been a prominent team of his "enlightening" activism. I have no problem neither with Jews nor with Israel. They are just irrelevant in the context of the past, the present and the future of our Nation. Our paths do not cross." For the record MJ you have demonstrated more then on many occasion your shortfalls of your ideas and as a typical egoist instead of debating and defending your ideas you choose the lower, cheap, insulting name-calling route. Someone who is confident of his ideas should not be afraid of being challenged. Your characterizations of Me,Nairi,Hagarag and others on this forum shows your total lock of maturity and reflects a mindset of bulldog guarding the hen house. You know crap about myself but you fall flat on your vomit on daily bases. Since you have not won any arguments thus far, you choose to slander me just like a cheap charlatan. I got balls and lots of it kiddo just debate me on any of the points I have raised against your writings. I will wait until the day you gather enough courage to be a man.

Arpa, You took my mentioning Israel out of context. I was only trying to show that Jewish history present and past is relevant subject on just about every major universities, part of western culture etc. and Armenia in my opinion does have similar turbulent past and I brought the Israel as a survival example. My mentioning Israel was to show gross inconsistency of being brainwashed everything Jewish and we got our “intellectuals” degrading ourselves, Armenians even more. A person (MJ) who made those statements can easily make them again and have balls to defend them. The whole topic was deleted.

Some on this forum have made statements such as “Armenia doesn’t have much of history” which incidentally brought strong opposite reactions from me to the contrary. I rather focus on the mindset, which does propagate the status quote western history paradigms. History is written from the perspective of winners and conquerors and to some extent this very notion is the arrogance propagated from a boxed in perspective, which ignores so much out. Small nations not only do have history but also by simply surviving through onslaught of victor nations deserve respect. Israel is such example. Though her entire existence she has been invaded on numerous times just like Armenia but like Armenia Israel survived and this very survival is her greatest achievement but unlike Israel Armenia “does not have history” worthy of scholastic research or insight? I strongly reject this notion not only because I am an Armenian but more so in fact that I am a human being and as such my heritage is no less important then that of any other nation. I am very much aware about “great nations” and their destructive war goings but shall I place value judgment in favor of violence as opposed to survival? Had the Nazis succeeded conquering the world would that have made the Germany “great nation”? Had the Ottomans conquered all of Europe and the rest of the globe would that made the Turks the greatest people on earth? As you can see victor’s perspective of history is absurd and at the best is the arrogant notion that the victors are the sole propriety of disclaiming what is history and what is not.

It looks like the film is doing well despite of some film critics lock of attention. From Groong 'Ararat' Opens With the Largest Per Screen Average of Any Film This Week From: BenSul@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 01:46:33 -0800 'Ararat' Opens With the Largest Per Screen Average of Any Film This Week Film Averages $32,188 Per Screen in New York, Los Angeles and Toronto NEW YORK, Nov. 19 /PRNewswire/ -- Miramax Films is proud to announce that "Ararat," a Robert Lantos production written and directed by Atom Egoyan, which was released in Los Angeles, New York, and Toronto on Friday, November 15, had a very strong opening weekend and averaged $35,188 per screen, the largest of any film this weekend. In the first three days, "Ararat" brought in $211,130 on six screens in North America. "These numbers exceed my wildest expectations," said Egoyan. "Miramax and Alliance have done an extraordinary job of combining grass roots marketing with a more traditional campaign." "These initial numbers are the first real vindication for our efforts to bring this untold chapter of history to the screen," said producer Robert Lantos. "The amazing response at the box office corroborates my conviction that there definitely is a commercial audience for a thought provoking film with substance." "Ararat," which has been warmly embraced by the North American Armenian community, premiered in Los Angeles last week as the American Film Institute's "Centerpiece." The film was also the subject of a cocktail reception and screening at the Library of Congress, hosted by the Congressional Caucus on Armenian Issues, Co-chairs Representative Frank Pallone Jr., Representative Joe Knollenberg, and Honorary Host Senator Robert Dole. "Ararat" is Atom Egoyan's most provocative film to date. It is a story about truth and denial -- on both an intimate and a grand scale. The estranged members of a contemporary Armenian family are faced both with Turkey's denial of their catastrophic past and with their own complicated present. Told in Egoyan's trademark elliptical style, "Ararat" is at once a mysterious and powerful story about determining truth. "Ararat" is an Alliance Atlantis and Serendipity Point Films presentation of an Atom Egoyan film in association with Ego Film Arts and ARP. "Ararat" is produced by Robert Lantos and Egoyan.

First Martin you are disappointed that they have not reviewed the film and then you write this below. “For me, personally, the value of this film is the discovery of the depth of Egoyan's and Aznavour's understanding of the Armenian Cause – it is something internal. It wouldn’t be of interest to Siskel and Ebert nor they can assess it. This is very Armenian.” Essentially justifying it their luck of interest in the film because “it is something internal”? “This is very Armenian.” Why is it the holocaust or any other Jewish related issues are not strictly Jewish internal issue but they made them wide mainstream American and international issue. Would it be a stretch of a imagination to speculate that some Jewish lobby with strong Turkish ties simply put a stop to Ararat’s potentiality?Why Jewish lobbies?you figure it yourselves.

Hi Ali, I am reading a book by a survivor titled “Rebirth” by Elise Hagopian.I just started but already very interesting details. Once finished I can send it to you.

Raffi jan, great site you got.Don't let the few Armenians take the spotlight no matter how absurd their ideas are.WE are little exagirating about their percieved damage to Armenian cause.AS Ara Beliozian often mentions even a broken clock shows the correct time once every twelve hours.I will take our radicals over none Armenians.We are just a family and as such few rotten apples are always present.God bless.

My 2 cents on this. In America KKK can openly march on main downtown streets with their racist flags. In case we forgotten freedom of speech is just that, freedom to express no matter how much one disagrees. There is a fine line when expressing opinions turns into death threats as I myself experienced on Armenian forum. Those individuals who do cross this line should be kicked out but simply expressing outrageous opinions is not good enough. In perspective Galileo’s theory of solar system was also outrageous in his own time…

No question,you are one wacky guy Azat.funny visual

Are you fishing? No I'm just drowning worms! Ok guys sorry,I could not resist this blonde joke… Sip, Azat don't get too excited about the visual... There was a competition to swim from Santa Monica to Catalina doing only the breaststroke, and the three women who entered the race were a brunette, a redhead and a blonde. After approximately 14 hours, the brunette staggered up on the shore and was declared the fastest breaststroker. About 40 minutes later, the redhead crawled declared the second place finisher. Nearly 4 hours after that, the blonde finally came ashore and promptly collapsed in front of the worried onlookers. When the reporters asked why it took her so long to complete the race, she replied, "I don't want to sound like I'm a sore loser, but I think those two other girls were using their arms."

and....

Good observations Thoth,I agree with you the article is total crap.

Very interesting but too bad I am too broke to have cable...but gathering from your inputs I got some idea.Thanks

Thank you guys for kind words.As a parent all I can do is to provide the means and love and hopefully when they grow up, then they can look back at their lives and say I had a great childhood. Bari gisher

Hi guys once in an awhile something special happens that transcends the ordinary. My six-year-old son Arvan won the first place in New England Scholastic Chess tournament. He is the official present champion in New England. It was like a dream event, Arvan won all his games without a loss very rare in chess tournaments and the trophy was bigger then his body. I am happy for him but also happy that one single Armenian kid came on top out of hundreds of others. So ketsi hai joghovurd@ !

Azat jan, now that you came open…..about reading, I worry about Sip’s carnivorous appetite for reading.. Kudos to you.

Thoth jan, I made no secret that I am a big fan of Gurdjief. I wander if you read Ouspensky's book, "In Search of the Miraculous" or any other books on Gurdjief.

Sip jan, nice topic if I can call it as such. I studied Zen Buddhism for some time and I do concur with you that happiness is a state of mind. In Zen, the way can never be rationally understood but experienced through meditation. I meditated for some time in Zen garden right there downtown LA. In painting, music and sports this feeling is often experienced but never retained for prolonged period of time however daily meditation do help. About life’s meaning? I believe everyone has an obligation to himself or herself to find out their capacity for answers. I think you have some soul searching to do. Just an observation, empty stomach does not want concepts but food. It is always for most part that people who are in spiritual crises are seldom really in financial mess. I was unemployed for six mouths and practically lived on credit cards supporting my family and I did not entertained lofty thoughts but searched ways to get a job, to feed my family. Be honest if your toys and comforts were removed I doubt if you will be concerned with questions of existence but rather your instinct to survive will overpower all other impulses. Anyway as Artist I ask these questions on daily bases and I do feel that with the overwhelming body of religious and spiritual literature out there only testifies that there really is something out there but that God or whatever can not be understood on simple rational level, same as Zen. It requires other approaches…