Rubo

Arpa> Take him home with you whereever that may be. Is Telaviv a good place? I may some day write what I know about the Bible and Hisus. You may be surprised. I know quite a bit. I can quote you chapter and verse, i.e. I have known it since before most of you were born. At the present I only read it for amusement as to how people can belive all that myhological garbage that was plagiarized and stolen from others, including ours. Yes! Noah is Armenian, they stole it from us. I have written about it in length. I can rebroadcast it if need be. Arpa> I don't think I am an atheist, I just don't give it much thought. I have my own concept of God, it may be much diffrent from others' but I'll tell you, it is not that ridiculous caricature pictured in the BOOK. You may address me as Dear Cynic or Sireli Agnostic. Dear Arpa, I respectfully differ with you (notice now if I said disagreed all hell would break lol) I believe your characterization of Christianity is unfair. It is true that Christianity does barrow heavily from Egyptians, Assyrians, nomadic tribes but the gist or the soul of Christianity transcends the “myhological garbage” you referred. Christ consciousness is one of the highest states of mind to achieve and to understand Christianity from fables is to miss the point. For me Christ is Zen, transcendence from duality by loving ones enemies one stops the hate within and after all conquering the demons within is the hardest thing there is. The world as we know it is built upon barrowed ideas-from semiconductors to radio to pyramids, architecture were all based on ideas shared and stolen. You have every freedom to believe anything you like but as a caution your very own beliefs may be by product of all the literature you read hence you are also a “barrowed idea”.

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: quote:Originally posted by MJ:Isn’t something that has a sole purpose of preservation called parasite? That is a question that reveals the essence of the Disney Armenian.I am still waiting for an answear!I "me" "es" has nothing to do with this.

Why is it that debating or exchanging contrary views among Armenians always for most part results name calling and insults? Is this not what Ara Baliozian been writing about for twenty years? That is immaturity, insecurity and the residue mentality of suppressed. The same people who advocate self-reliance, or see themselves as “progressive” are incapable of exchanging views without resorting to insults and cheap shots. Ara Balizian has been verbally abused including his mother and for what? If confident let your words speak loader not your insults which only clearly shows ones weakness.

Azat,I will visit this forum lot less or almost none becouse few on this forum have not understood the concept of civil discourse.It is really a pitty.I appoligize to everyone for my words if offended.Thanks

Azat jan, I am sorry [ December 12, 2002, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: MosJan ]

Boghos,Why ditching the challenge to clarify your definition of Disney Armenian( Thoth may fit in there as well, he’s got kids) Is it that hard Boghos? Or it is easier to insult, ridicule the Diaspora Armenians constantly on this forum! Or you think we are too stupid to distill your “essence”

Arpa”When is the last time we introduced our otar spouse even after 50 years of marriage as an Armenian and not "meet Sheila/Sean", he/she is Irish?” Dear Arpa-I apologize if I was harsh on you-My sister in law is married to a Ukrainian for fifty years. He as always has been warmly treated in the family but after all these years he never confused the fact that he was still Ukrainian despite of brainwashing him to think he is an Armenian. I find it highly plausible that your proposition is true, there may be real converts out there but I am yet to meet one. Boghos I agree with you about moving back to Armenia but let’s face it nobody is packing his or her bags now. As long as our economy is the way it is I don’t expect the lines in front of the US embassy to shorten. Regards to all

Fear of assimilation? just do the math and the answer is simple. THEY ARE NOT TOO MANY OF US ARMENIANS-It is not fear but preservation and that should be obvious to every Armenian after the Armenian Genocide. Yeah I can masturbate here intellectually as well but the point is simple to understand, not fear but perseverance. I am getting sick of this tone.

Once in Greece with my new bride traveling I saw numerous shops in Athens and Islands selling fake Greek vases from the classical times and other fake ancient jewelry and I was intrigued and proceeded to ask the Greek vender about them and he answered me by” Greece is like a giant iceberg everything great is below the surface” Living in past glories does nothing for present.

Dear Aycemnik I share your sincere feelings about our people and this may surprise you that even Ara may share it too. One can be positive without saying things positive “heh” yes. If your car’s breaks are not functioning right and your friend tells you so: is your friend positive or negative? I find lot of wisdom in Ara’s works but then again I am not looking for hair in my meal. Often lot of intelligent people dismisse others based on few or more faults but ignore the wisdom contained in the rest. My criteria for judging an Artist, writer etc. is based on their masterpieces, their finest works rather on mediocre ones. Vincent Van Gogh did lot of mediocre paintings but we remember him based on his masterpieces. I am not saying anything very revealing but the obvious. Armenians “menc” can not have too much self criticism, on the contrary we don’t have enough of it. Proof? Just examine our corrupt government and the entire bribe infused population there. Before anybody fixes these problems one must recognize them as problems in the first place hence people whom recognize them are often called social critics but then again had they song the lamenting songs of past glories nothing would have changed. Regards Ruben S. Few of my favorites A fanatic would rather walk a thousand miles in the opposite direction to misunderstand you than take a single step in your direction to understand you. * For a fool, winning an argument is more important than opening his mind. What do I share with some of my fellow Armenians? Nothing but an Ottoman background. A source of degradation rather than pride. * In the kingdom of the blind the one-eyed is king. But if the kingdom is Armenian, the one-eyed is blinded too. Misery likes company, they say, and envy is tough on the privileged. * I don't believe in the moral superiority of the underdog. I have been an underdog all my life and I have no illusions about them.

Aycemnik bari galust, at first I also had similar feelings about Ara’s works but upon closer examination you will find as I have that he is deeply patriotic and his criticism stem from wanting things to improve and he as a writer or any other Artist is not obligated to play a role of positive motivator or positive psychiatrist but more of somebody who dares to express the truth as perceived. I dislike painting flowers and still lifes and my work is full of agony but underneath massage is liberation for freedom to feel real. In America everyone constantly points out that we should be positive bla bla and even in funerals one is ashamed to cry. This is a clear example by suppressing real emotions we end up having fake half ass mediocre sentiments hardy worthy of human beings. I do miss those Armenian dramatic funerals; they only emphasized the zest and the desire for life. I know I strayed from your point slightly but it is all related. I have almost pathological aversion towards phony “positives” Take care Ruben S.

Armenian Tribalism I give credit to Ara Baliozian for exposing the chauvinists, bigots, arrogant self assessed “intellectuals” and “geniuses” etc. etc. Armenians love, yes love to discriminate among themselves-east verses western Armenians and then Lebanese, Iranian, etc. etc. I was thinking about this indirectly for a while in a more slow taking and filtering matter and the truth is Ara is right we are caring the mentality of victims and loosers and as such instead of scoring real victories in the real world we take our petty, narrow minded prejudices upon one another-perfect tribalism in action. This forum is a perfect example, disagree with a self-appointed bigot and wait for the barrage of insults and mockery to begin. Isn’t this what Ara is talking about by saying Ottomanized, Sovietasized, Orientalized etc.Yes, honesty among our race is rare, I don’t know how many times I heard our chauvinists boast about Armenians ability in cunning as though it is a virtue to be proud of.All the talk here about unity is just that TALK and reality is we continue to cannibalize any other Armenian who we perceive does not look like our carbon copies –call it Armenian twisted love! Disclaimer -this post does not apply to all Armenians including on this forum.

Azad, your priest joke was soo bad, soo bad that I called cardinal Law from Boston to arrest you.

I know how I can help Armenia-I will go to an Armenian stores and buy Turkish candy, Turkish dry fruit, Turkish whatever and I will go home and listen Turkish music with the added confusion of thinking it is an Armenian music and to top it off talk Turkish to your kids instead of Armenian. That’s it, call it twisted identity problem! Yes MJ I also agree that we need people with vision. "When there is no vision people will parish"

OK guys this is my dream that never happened.I imagined a real Zorna, dhol costumes,Mush Sassoon music on my wedding...but I was totally broke so there was no wedding ,instead I took my bride to Greece and Italy for two mouths.I still dream about a authetic Armenian wedding ( please don't ask what that is).My cousins are musicians and there is still possibility...

Too bad you guys Azat, Sip ,Domino are not here in Boston, I got my cousin here beatiful lloooney Armenian girl and nobody to date:( She is gorgeous beatiful black eyes,slender body...exotic looking...ooh well I know more single Armenian girls here then guys, I guess there is a shortage of quality guys.I wished I was single again...sigh

Domino, very intelligent observations specially about motherland and fatherland concepts, truth is I never thought in those terms…very good! I am planning to see the movie again and be open to its nuisances. There is a scene in the film where Ani ignores the warning of a stage manager and she enters into the set being shot and totally ignoring the film. My take on this. 1. She is carried away by her emotions and not aware what was going on, almost unconscious. 2. Egoyan is trying to show that all the fuss about the genocide is not that important to us anyway, which was MJ massage. The second scenario is little stanched since Egoyan never publicly raised that issue however he could not say it literally anyway but that scene does resonate some symbolic value to me. What do you think?

I finally watched the “Ararat” movie…I basically read all the previous criticism and praise about this film and I reserved judgment until seeing it myself. After the movie my friends and I were at lose to find praise or positive things to say and overall feeling was that of disappointment. I was specially dismayed by Egoyan’s American style of soup opera additions in the film, which was adding nothing to the main theme. Ararat is like a large jigsaw puzzle and after putting it together it still looks like a distorted image. I have seen all Egoyan’s films and Ararat unfortunately falls short on substance and direction perhaps overly ambitious for its own sake and desperately trying to say too much too trivial to matter in the end. It is a disappointment I feel, AG deserves a second chance by someone who can really pull it off. MJ self projection about this film that somehow Egoyan was trying to make us understand the futility of our present approach is unfounded. Egoyan himself reiterated many times that his aim was more about denial then our “exhausted approaches”

I also read that article. I guess my take on resolution of Karabagh is “What Karabagh problem?” It is solved already! Azeris are day dreaming about the past but as I recollect my memory they also rejected Petrosian’s version of proposals.

quote:Originally posted by Sip:Tata doesn't get you to jump up and dance, NOTHING will! Don't get me wrong, I am definitely no where near a hyebruin-caliber TATA fan, but I think when it comes to party "Armenian" style, TATA is probably as good as it gets. My personnal jumping music is Nune whole lot more talented singer then Tata and her music does not have the cheap keyboard sound that Tata has.Nersik is great too and met him personnaly in LA, my mother inlaw knows most of the moosh, sasun lyrics of his songs.Anyway whatever fires you up I guess.

quote:Originally posted by Harut:ye, ye, Rubo, we can tell you're old. btw, Tata does NOT sound turkish at all. Mannnn Harout you made me feel old:eek:seriously I do agree Tata does not sound Turkish and I did not say he does but the quality level is way down.He is a great promoter of himself and I am very certain that they are really talented musicians out there who do not have the resources to market themselves.I do listen lot of "young" music though from hard core rock to jazz so I don't feel old yet.

Thank you Mher for your support but the true credit really goes to my wife, very lucky man I am.She hassles Arvan in and out of chess clubs twice a week in addition of private chess leasons.Arvan is really gifted, I am having trouble beating him now sometimes.I own the kid two thousand dollars of lost games and he does expect to be paid some day... I do agree that chess is the best export Armenia has to publisize herself.I have great hope that someday Arvan will compete internationally as a member of an Armenian team.I do consider possibilty of sending Arvan to chess school in Armenia, we will see.Take care Mher

If Tata is the Artist most Armenians admire now then we really are in trouble. Come to think about it Turks have better taste in music then we do. I was in HMV yesterday and happened to listen some Turkish contemporary music and I must admit it was great. If the Turks can make better music why can’t we? Why should we sound Turkish musically and why don’t the Turks copy us? I really loathe cheap Turkish “Armenian” rabiz infused music. I get sick almost physically.

Yeah, I am now the legitimate truth teller and party spoiler. Not only Tata looks ugly to me but even sounds more ugly when he sings. Sorry but I am on the same sex so I can’t find the attraction, the bolding head, the outdated hair style, whatever is left. Sorry my not so humble opinion and his music sucks as well.

The results of the 34th chess olimpiad Leading Final Standings: Men's: 1 Russia 38½ 2 Hungary 37½ 3 Armenia 35 4 Georgia 34 5 China 33½ 6 Netherlands 33½ 7 England 33½ 8 Slovakia 33 9 Israel 33 10 Yugoslavia 33 11 FYR Macedonia 33 12 Switzerland 33 13 Poland 32½ 14 Ukraine 32½ 15 Bosnia and Herzegovina 32½ 16 Germany 32½ 17 Belarus 32½ 18 Czech Republic 32½ 19 Spain 32½ 20 Uzbekistan 32½ 21 Lithuania 32 22 Iceland 32 23 Croatia 31½ 24 France 31½ 25 Greece 31½ 26 Denmark 31½ 27 Bulgaria 31½ 28 Romania 31 29 India 31 30 Azerbaijan 31 31 Moldova 31 32 Sweden 31 33 Canada 31 34 Bangladesh 31 35 Brazil 31 36 Ireland 31 37 Cuba 30½ 38 Italy 30½ 39 Philippines 30½ 40 Slovenia-A 30½ 41 United States 30½ 42 Latvia 30½ 43 Estonia 30½ 44 Belgium 30½ 45 Finland 30½ Hi guys I am proud of Armenia’s latest successes in chess. Coming third and beating France, Germany, and Italy etc. must make any Armenian proud. Here is some more good news. Check Mates: New chess academy aims to breed champions By Zara Chatinian ArmeniaWeek reporter A new Academy of Chess has been established by a Grandmaster who believes the game can become a key advertisement for Armenia’s young talent. Smbat Lputian, who for two decades has been among the world’s best players, has set up the academy in Yerevan with the financial support of the Prime Minister, Andranik Markarian. Lputian says: “Nothing could better promote Armenia in the world under current circumstances than chess. “Historically Armenia has a great tradition of distinguished chess players. I strongly believe Armenia should use this opportunity to be better represented in the wider world through its champions. “In addition, developing chess does not require significant financial expenditure.” The academy opened its doors in February, accepting 36 students to work with six chess trainers, including Grandmasters. It offered places to youngsters aged up to 20, both male and female, who proved their ability in regional and national chess competitions. The Armenian Chess Federation organized tournaments for players aged under 10, 12, 14, 16, 18 and 20. The top three players from the male and female competitions in each age group are to be enrolled in the Academy for a year, studying free of charge. Classes are held for three hours a day three days a week. The academy sets out five levels of progression, each one designed to bring the students to a greater degree of professionalism and to work with more experienced trainers. “We have a nine-year old, Samvel Ter-Sahakian from Vanadzor, who is a champion of Armenia in the under-10 group,” says Lputian. “I believe he will be among the most distinguished Armenian champions in the world championships in a few years’ time.” The students regularly participate at championships, local and international. Before the latter, training sessions become more intense to prepare them for the challenge they will face. Some of the academy’s students have already received international recognition as Grandmasters under the rankings created by the game’s governing body, the Federation Internationale des Echecs (FIDE). Lilit Mkrtchian, 20, is one of them. She became women’s champion of Armenia at the age of just 13 and was named a Grandmaster at 17. Lputian says: “We have two young female Grandmasters now, something which was not common in Armenia before.” Armenia’s strength in the world game is partly inherited from the Soviet Union, where huge resources were devoted to developing chess talent for propaganda reasons. But once the Soviet Union collapsed, says Lputian, the sport was plunged into crisis. Former contacts and partnerships within the Union were lost and financial support shrunk dramatically in the wake of the economic crisis in Armenia. Many talented chess players joined the large-scale emigration from the republic. “We reached the point where if we waited another five years or so we would definitely lose all of our potential in the sport. There was a need for urgent decisions,” says Lputian. His idea of establishing a high-level school to develop promising players was maturing for four years but lacked the support necessary to make it a reality. Unexpectedly, it became possible. “I was at dinner with Mr. Markarian and we were talking about the difficulties facing chess. I did not expect the conversation to go beyond complaints and general comments, as normally happens on occasions like this,” says Lputian. “But in fact Markarian followed up with my idea to establish an Academy of Chess.” Markarian and a number of friends interested in Armenia’s future chess reputation are supporting the academy from their own private funds. Armenia’s success in chess competitions is out of all proportion to its size as a country of three million people. It has 140 players (120 men and 20 women) in FIDE's current world chess rankings, including 14 Grandmasters. In the 2001 World team championships, which were held in Yerevan, Armenia took third prize behind Ukraine and Russia. The Armenian team took first place in the European Championships held in Georgia in 1999. And Armenia’s team won gold medals at the 1995 European Club Championships. Armenia had a larger number of players in the latter stages of the 1999 FIDE Knock-Out Championship in Las Vegas, USA, than America, Ukraine, Israel, Germany and China. Three of the academy’s students are included in Armenia’s five-strong entry at the European Women’s Championships in Bulgaria. One of its major projects is to organize chess training over the Internet. The academy plans to use the Internet to provide online lessons to young players in schools in all regions of Armenia. This could develop into a means of spotting outstanding talent at an early age. A team of programmers has been working for eight months to create the online classes, which Lputian hopes will provide income in the future to support the academy’s activities. “It will be a unique project, I don’t believe there is a similar one anywhere else in the world. Hopefully it will become a very useful product,” says Lputian. “We have to pay proper attention to our gifted young people. Our students are the future of Armenia’s chess team in the world championships and will bring fame to the country. I have complete faith in them.” He adds: “Some day they will promote Armenia worldwide by demonstrating their superiority over Russian, European and American teams.”