MJ

Thank you, Wh00t. However, I don’t see what is alarming there. In my view it is an excellent statement (for us) that Ozdem Sanberk has made, assuming that the materials in the Azeri newspaper is authentic, and is not fabricated or even made for the sake of the public opinion in Azerbaijan. When the H. Res. 568(?) was pulled out, the two sides were invited to engage in a dialog, as a next step towards the resolution of the issue. If the issue would be stonewalled by the Turkish side, that would open the doors of the US Congress for another review of the issue on a better level. Until then, it is clear that nothing is going to happen in the Congress, since none of the underlying reasons why the H.R. 568(?) was killed have been eliminated. The channel of dialog between Turks and Armenians would’ve not opened if not the US insistence. Now, if you want a resolution from the US, shouldn’t you play by their rules? Or do you think you are going to bring the US on its knees to do something that it is not prepared to do?

quote:Originally posted by khodja: In view of the recent statements of Turkish members of the TARC, stating that their pupose id to prevent Genocide Resolution from being considered by Western governments... Welcome to the forum Khodja. Could you please post the statement of the Turkish memebers of TARC on the above referenced matter, please?

quote:Originally posted by LithiumC4: MJ-bro, I feel you spend too much time on the internet. You are perhaps right. The sole reason being I was naive enough thinking that I can teach few loud-mouths a thing or two. But, hey, who doesn't time-by-time get too ambitious?

OK. Just making sure.

quote:Originally posted by Harut: "music is the wonderful child of the nation, but not every nation is capable of bearing it" ---Harut The Great Even not every individual... For example, I find it so hard to bear some of the "Armenian" music.

Human cloning is an excellent idea. If it was possible, I would've had my wife cloned.

That attitude will just make the entire world anti-Armenian.

It's a database. Are you sure you need Cisco and not Sysco (which is food services company). You can try http://www.microsoft.com/msft/ and choose whatever financial info you need.

See if your school provides access to Lexus-Nexus (hope I'm not misprounounving it). Otherwise try to find the company Web Site, and check their "Corporate" sub-site.

quote:Originally posted by LithiumC4: MJ do you have somehting against me? I don't see why you should. This is exactly what I'm referring to. WE NEED UNITY! ?

http://www.worldbookdealers.com/books/shap...k0000077431.asp

Thoth, My previous material was not particularly directed at Steve, but was a general remark about what and why drives us here. As far as Steve goes, his work on Ani and contribution to this site are much appreciated. However, as one would expect from someone in his 30's, some balanced behavior would be more suitable. That's all. [ August 14, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

Thoth, The evidence that I poses for the time being is from my friends, who represent Armenian Academic circles. I haven’t asked them where did they get their information, since I know them too well, and I know that they are not any less endowed by intellectual powers not to know that there may be bias in the answers of certain officials. My friends testimony on the stoppage of the explosions in no way stops Steve, you or any others for taking whatever actions you deem to be appropriate. I have found it to be my duty to send a formal inquiry to the Armenian government asking for clarifications. Certainly, certain people would find the Armenian government not credible enough. However, I have to remind you that according to the available materials, the Armenian government has immediately accepted the fact of the explosions, without trying to cover up or trying to maneuver. There is not a single indication that they have been not truthful, or that they are any less concerned about Ani than Steve the Belthecat. When I have their formal reply, which I have been promised to receive, I will inform the forum. Everybody here has character, idiosyncrasies, as well as limits to our patience. I have never even attempted to belittle Steve, or anybody else. It is his/others’ obligation to take responsibility for their statements and allegations, and we have no obligation to take what he/they say at its face value, if what they say is not persuasive (this comment is not about the controversy surrounding the quarries). As a matter of fact, I appreciate very much the important work that Steve does, however, I am very resentful of his negativism. Additionally, while I have no questions about his academic credentials and academic integrity, I am overly suspicious of his interpretations of global character, and have a tendency to discount his emotional outbursts. But perhaps that is part of who he is. However, we are trying to build a forum of reason, of relatively high standards here, as much as it is possible with an Open House policy. We don’t want to see here people making statement for the sake of the emotional satisfaction of it. For such purposes there are any numbers of other forums, where such behavior is appreciated. It is not appreciated here. The expression of its non-appreciation is made by me on the basis of not feeling as a privileged member. The moderators of this forum are not privileged members. To the contrary, they are just older members, who feel for the forum and bare the responsibility for its success. They also understand that there is a fine line to be walked between imposing our own views and cutting the BS, which is so characteristic of many in the forum. If it doesn’t quite work that way sometimes, and looks overly aggressive, that is something that makes us feel very uncomfortable. It is a very difficult undertaking and nobody feels more pain than we do if we stumble another time by being forced to issue warnings or ban somebody. It is hard. This forum is young, and is perhaps the fastest growing forum, at least among the Armenian forums. Personally, my most desirable position in this forum would be not to intervene. I am not looking for audience, nor am trying to establish my ego. Any common sense person would understand that if that is my or others’ purpose here, there are more beneficial ways and places to do it. We clearly understand the emotions and the reactions that our enforcement does or may cause. But we know very clearly what we are trying to achieve here, and everything else seems to be secondary. If we would have only members who take responsibility for their materials, posses the culture of argumentation, and can separate the personal ego from the purpose of the forum, the role of the moderators’ would be obsolete. None of these comments above are directed at Steve, per se. They are just general comments to let you understand where we are coming from.

There you go.

quote:Originally posted by bellthecat: Giving us some sort of indication of how your friends came by the information that the quarry blasting had stopped would be a start - But I have been asking for such information in 4 of my above posts, and you have consistantly refused to give out that information, and attacked me for asking, so there is little point in asking again and this will be my last request. Steve You have a very short memory, Steve. Just go back and read your last 4 (as you suggest) postings and my replies to you, and be a little meticulous in identifying who is attacking whom.

Thoth, Who do you expect the statement to come? If from the officials in Armenia, it appears that they are liars no matter what, if from my friends, they are anonymous to Bellthecat, etc. As a matter of principle, what kind of statement may be a sufficient proof of the stoppage of the explosions? Would appreciate your methodological guidelines. And if you think all this is about some petty personal differences, you are much misreading my presence in this forum. P.S. I meant to say "Who do you expect the statement to come from?" above. [ August 13, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

What a demagogery...

Steve, It seems that among other things, there is something wrong with your logic. The evidence of the explosions three weeks after the promised date to stop them is not an evidence on continuing explosions, say, six weeks after the promised date. I am not aware of any lies of any officials. However, I am aware of officials breaking their promise, assuming your evidence is credible. And I will give you the benefit of the doubt that it is. This is an elementary thing that a person of your intelligence should be able to distinguish. If you can’t distinguish a lie from breaking a promise, that means you have a fundamental problem to understand/feel the flow of time, and you have a continuing problem with verbal diarrhea, as evidenced one more time in your latest postings. I don’t care if you believe my friends or not, or if you believe me. I have already told you that I am not doing this for you. The important thing for me is that I believe them. Additionally, you don’t know whether they have seen the quarry or not, or who has seen it. So, as usual, you are being too presumptuous. The elementary logic dictates that while one can prove, per se, that the explosions still go on, by documenting them, it is very hard to prove that the explosions have stopped, at least from the position of someone who doesn’t reside on the spot. One of the funny things in all this is you urging me to get real. When have you ever been real, Steve? Or when has your reality gone beyond that of a Starbucks cafe? Talking about arrogance, I am also much puzzled at your attitude. You are much like those Armenians who would rather see Ani destroyed so that to prove that Turks are barbarians. The hate towards Armenians for not supporting your projects is so strong in you that you also would rather be interested in the testimony of my friends being false, I gather. While, theoretically speaking they may be wrong (it is totally in the realm of possibilities), not knowing them or about them you have no right to question their truthfulness. This is elementary ethics. One more thing. You desperately need to seriously work on your interpersonal skills. Maybe that's where all your troubles start… I am sure I am not the first person to tell you this. [ August 13, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

quote:Originally posted by gamavor: No one is perfect! Thank God. We'd rather not be perfect, since the "perfect" is ripe for being sacrificed.

quote:Originally posted by wh00t: Oh, MJ.. what are we gonna do with you? Bore me to death.

quote:Originally posted by bellthecat: MJ, It seems that much of what you write has a "see no evil - hear no evil" attitude when it concerns truths you find unacceptable, be they about America or Armenia. I have noticed that in these cases you never back up anything you say with facts. So - when your anonymous friends with their anonymous information are proved to be anonymous liars, you will "request clarification" from them! Clarification about why they lied!! And once again you just can't help ending everything with a snide little personal remark that you probably think very clever, but just sounds very immature. Steve Steve, I am not going to exchange insults with you. When you are in better psychological shape, given your level of intelligence, you can figure things on your own. Just reread this thread when you are better positioned to reflect. My friend may be anonymous to you, but not to me. Meanwhile, the biggest anonymous here is you throughout the existence of this forum. If talking about facts, my statements require no more facts than yours do. So next time, when you provide backing facts on all the statements that you make, you would be in position to request facts from me.

quote:Originally posted by bellthecat: You are the one with the chip - you have just said that you will chose to believe your anonymous Armenian pals over eyewitness evidence, for no other reason than your pals have "ian" at the end of their name. Steve No, Steve, I don’t. Just think about it over when your mind is clearer. I definitely would believe my friends of 15 years with whom I have been through water and fire then your "sources," which would provide evidence only in mid September. However, if they provide a contrary evidence, I would go back to my friends and request clarifications. And for your knowledge, my friends' last name doesn't end with "ian." You may be the best archeologist in the world, you may be the most knowledgeable person on this planet on the subject of the Armenian monuments in Turkey, but definitely you have a huge chip on your shoulder.

quote:Originally posted by bellthecat: You have proved to me one thing with your typical racist Armenian attitudes. I would sooner rely on a Turkish source than an anonymous Armenian one - at least they will have a cernal of truth hidden somewhere. You clearly have some huge chip on your shoulder. Such a pity...

quote:Originally posted by bellthecat: Well, unless you can tell me how they came by the information I will have the wisdom to chose to disregard that information - and so should you! I will hear from a credible source in mid September - someone who will actually visit Ani - but I would prefer to know about the situation sooner than that. Steve Steve, Unless you present to me a credible evidence on the opposite, I would rather take my friends' testimony for truth. I am also not trying to prove you anything, but rather I am trying to define my postion on the subject. Therefore, you can rely on your sources, and I will rely on mine.

Steve, I don't question the sources of my friends. They are mature enough to separate the propaganda from reality, and to check the information they obtain from whatever sources.