MJ

quote:Originally posted by wh00t: Am I one? Much like in the case of the Jabbernuts, I'll give you the choice of exercising your right of self-determination.

Boghos, I also read the NY Times material about civil liberties curtailment. I am of more positive opinion regarding this material. I think it is more objective, and its internal logic is more consistent. However, short of some Arabs being unduly targeted, I don't see problems, as much as my civil liberties are important to me. It is a very difficult situation. There are operating terrorist rings within the US, among other countries. The terrorists don't have a special mark on their forehand. They blend easily with the general population, which is indicative of the tolerance of this society. People are scared. As simple as that. As you know, I travel extensively. I drive sometimes, and I fly sometimes. And I don't necessarily look like an everyday WASP, you know... I was wondering if they would give me hard time when flying. Tuned out - absolutely not. My wife looks more like the general populice of America than I do. She was individually searched in the Airport when trying to fly. I was stopped by the police due to speeding, lately. First I wondered if the guy is going to pick up at me because of my "looks and my accent." Not at all. So I didn't feel that there was anything abnormal going on in terms of the civil liberties. As far as the military tribunals for Al-Qaeda members are concerned, I welcome them. They are war criminals. Why should they be judged by civilian courts? Additionally, I expect you are aware of the OJ Simpson trial. I can guarantee you that if, per se, Usama Bin Laden is tried in a civilian court, it would turn into a more outrageous show than the OJ's trial was. I also understand that sometimes some people's liberties may temporarily be undermined. It is too bad. I personally would be outraged if it happens to me. But I can also understand the circumstances. P.S. I owe you an opinion on SEC's latest rullings, but have no idea what is it about. If I have time, would do some research on it. [ November 22, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

Dear Boghos, I read the Washington Post Article on the Tax Cuts. Will get beck to you with respect to the other article when I read it. I am not impressed at all by the article. I think its material is selective - along ideological lines. It gives no specific information about the bill, its provisions, etc., but just interprets it in a way, which sounds arbitrary to me. (Let me tell you in advance that I am not familiar with the details of the bill at all). Basically, the idea of the article is that tax cuts (especially corporate ones) are bad. I disagree with it. They are good for the economy, assuming that the spending caps are observed. US economy has been going down for more than a year, now (taking with it the World Economy or the opposite way). The events of 9/11, in my view, have as much relevance to the "opportunity to move to the right," as they have transferred the economy from a declining mode to a recession mode. Clearly, something drastic had to be done. It is obvious, I think, that one of the primary factors stimulating economy is the consumer confidence, which has been very law, due to low expected corporate earnings which, in turn, has sent the primary financial benchmarks such as Dow Industrial, S&P500, NASDAQ, down. I think we both will agree that it hits not just the rich, but also the ordinary people, the middle class, even the lower class people. If nothing else, most of the Pension Plans, Retirement Plans, etc., are either directly tied to S&P500 of are strongly and positively correlated with it. Therefore, pushing the economy up is prerogative for everyone - not just the rich. Moreover, the direction of economy, as we both know is not very relevant for the rich. They benefit from both directions - the poor have no ability to short-sell in the market, or their such ability is very limited. Obviously, the reduced corporate taxes increase the expected corporate earning, which push the indices like S&P500 and NASDAQ up. The upward indices inspire more consumer confidence and more consumer spending, which guarantee increased cash flow into the industry, which is very good for everyone until the market saturates for another cycle. Therefore, I really do thing that the Corporate Tax Cuts are positive phenomena. I think that the imposition of Alternative Minimum Tax was an immoral and harmful thing in the first place, and I hope it would be eliminated, and the Tax Code would be simplified - it is a mess, now. As far as IBM's benefiting from the current Tax Cuts is concerned, I don't know where did the author of the article get the information. My understanding is that no one can tell it till the fiscal year is over for IBM. Logically speaking, it implies that IBM was supposed to pay high taxes regardless of its returns, if not for the elimination of the Alternative Minimum Tax. I understand that it is an assumption. However, I don't see again why is it bad to cut the unfair Taxes of IBM, GE and the likes. Vast segments of the population will benefit from it – from students to grandmothers, to consumers. My understanding is that Corporations (at least C-Corps) pay 33% tax on their returns. Why is it not good enough, and why should they pay Alternative Minimum Tax regardless of their returns? I am also puzzled again to see the traditional "tax cuts for wealthy" liberal line in this article. Tax cuts are for tax payers. More money people make, more taxes they will pay due to the volume, and not necessarily due to the rates. And these things were in the pipeline for long time. I don’t see the 9/11 being the triggering mechanism for them. The elimination of the Alternative Minimum Tax was being pursued for quite some time, as well as the Capital Gains Tax was. Moreover, reportedly, there was a consensus on Capital Gains tax way before the 9/11. I know that a lot of things that I hectically tried to convey here are things that you know much better than I do. What I would appreciate if you explain is which arguments of the author of this article do you agree with and why, even if we assume his reporting is accurate?

Yes, I feel sorry for many in this forum and elsewhere. You undoubtly are one of them. But unlike some others, you still have some chance. I also feel sorry for myself, since I have to deal with your type. As to the dirth you have to wash, start from your brain, go to your heart, and then think of your feet.

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: Here are just two links, there is much more. But have a look, and let me know what you think. On the stimulus package / tax cuts, there is an interesting Washington Post editorial: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2001Oct31.html On civil rights, for example, an article from the New York Times (free registration, but necessary) http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/18/politics...rchpv=past7days On the SEC and capital markets in general, there are numerous announcements that show that regulation has become a secondary issue, that the most important thing is keeping the markets "stable". far from it, it is allowing corporations to get away with irregularities that will down the line will come back to hunt investors. I shall write in much more detail about this topic if it is found to be necessary. Thanks. Will look at it over the weekend. Now have to run.

TB, I don’t think Azeris had much influence in this matter. The matter was sabotaged by the Turkish rights, as I remember. Meanwhile, Azerbaijan might’ve barked, as well. But Azerbaijan has never had neither influence nor has enjoyed respect in Turkish governmental circles, no matter what the Turkish government may have declared for PR purposes. As far as Turkey’s potential leverage is concerned, I agree with you that reliance over one rout to access the sees would be not expedient for Armenia – even if it was not Turkey but some “friendly” country. However, the “rules of the game” where supposed to be part of the package. Batumy is another potentially Free Enterprise Zone. Just need Georgia establish tranquility over its Sovereign territory, and I think it would become a potential possibility. I think that Armenia will and must opt for multiple routs. All that is to be systematically pursued.

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: Yes, of course it is. I was just illustrating how perceptions differ depending on where you stand. I know. I am just using the opportunity to dismiss that mumbo-jumbo.

quote:Originally posted by Twilight Bark: OK, no hard feelings However, it would be useful and educational for me if you could elaborate a bit more on the reasons for your inability to buy it. As simple as not being able to buy the pan-Turkism as a geopoliticaly viable and desirable for Turkey (outside some small groups) political doctrine. Additionally, I don't think that Turkey would've ever expected (until the mid 1980s perhaps) the collapse of the USSR.

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: The Trabzon issue is quite a complex one, and it shouldn't be narrowed down to the Armenian-American elite looking after its interests only. If these interests are alligned with the RoA, for example, why not ? Dear Boghos, You are right. Trabizon was being considered for a Free Enterprise Zone. It would've benefited all the countries of the region, including Armenia (very much so). But first of all, the issue of Trabizon has been alive for very short period of time during the early years of the establishment of the Republic of Armenia. The possibility was killed by the Turkish side as something going against the Turkish interests. Trabizon would have had strategic value for Armenia (don't want to exaggerate it due to potential availability of Batumi and Poti ports of Georgia). I am always somewhat angered to see such serious issues ("selling out Armenian interests") demagogued, and the public being deliberately misinformed by people practicing partisan/political prostitution. [ November 21, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

quote:Originally posted by Twilight Bark: However, I concede that my perception of that strategic move may be wrong. Maybe. For example, I still cannot buy it.

- tax package to benefit corporations in a very nasty manner, essentially just filling up the coffers of such "needy" companies as IBM (actually the government should never support corporations this way) I am not aware of this. Could you give some details? - curtailing civil rights Is this about the Military Courts trying the Al-Qaida members or something else? - weakening the SEC and a number of fair regulatory practices of capital markets Could you give some details about this, too? [ November 22, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: I agree that Armenians have this tendency. But it is interesting to note that outsiders do not perceive us as such. Can't it be that in the case of the Jews things are not so rosy as they appear to be ? I have so many times heard about how "united" we Armenians are. Boghos, In my view, this "unity business" is total mumbo-jumbo. What unity? Unity around/about what? Unity with whom? Those who share common goals are united through their goals. Those who share common hatred are also united when it comes to the subjects related to the source of hatred. Outside very limited parameters, I don’t know what does “unity” mean, and why is it good. I know of two united societies of the time – Nazi Germany and Soviet Union of pre-Brezhnev era. I vote for the establishment/assertion of higher goals and for disunity. [ November 21, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: Ah, if you are mentioning the fact that the September 11 incidents have produced a major swing to the right, or actually further to the right, I couldn't agree more. What's the manifestation of it, Boghos?

Should I laugh or just shake my head? No. There is nothing that I would like to enter in coalition with you. As far as the negative is concerned, isn't it ironic that someone with a Username "hagarag" (meaning the opposite) is talking about negativism?

quote:Originally posted by Twilight Bark: Granted. But that's not saying much! Let's see if they are going to live upi to this characterization in the current decade. Bye for now.

quote:Originally posted by Twilight Bark: Well, OK. But the same Turkish right that MJ credits with killing the immediately relevant Trabzon project is somehow powerless when it comes to determining long-range "pie-in-the sky" ideals of the Turkish elite, according to MJ. It seems inconsistent. But I'll buy it; I'm easy. As for Trabzon being populated with Kurds. Isn't it supposed to be a Laz town? Has the demographics changed so dramatically? Err... I got to run. If the "pie-in-the-sky" is supposed to be pan-Turkism, I doubt that the Turkish right is cherishing such dreams. However, understandably, there is a minority within the Turkish right which does.

quote:Originally posted by Twilight Bark: That's not good enough. Turkey has done many things that are not beneficial to it. Turkey has believed and enforced ideologies that are not beneficial to it. Such rational arguments are not terribly useful in analyzing the ideals of the Turkish establishment. As for expecting an imminent collapse, of course not. However, note that Turkey bothered, at the time, to become a "co-guarantor" of Nakhijevan. That is, technically nobody could unilaterally mess with Nakhijevan's status without automatically invoking Turkey's response. Surely, Turkey did not expect to be in a position to challenge the Soviets; but they bothered to thrust themselves to be a guarantor of the place nonetheless. Please correct me if my memory about Turkey being a "guarantor" of Nakhijevan is inaccurate. You seem to have a reasonably intimate knowledge of these things. OK, TB. My last comment for today, and I have to hit the road. I think with the exception of the Armenian Genocide, Turkey has been most rational and brilliantly strategically thinking state of the region. As far as Nakhichevan goes, you are right in ascribing Turkey a role of a guarantor. However, as unpleasant as it may sound from the surface, we have to recognize that Nakhichevan has not been incorporated in the Republic of Armenia in 1918-1920, it has declared independence as an Azeri/Turkic State at the time, and Armenians have been minority at the time in Nakhichevan.

Boghos, First I think it is an editorialized monologue. As to the content of it, let's not be too demanding, since it may be inhumane.

Dear Boghos, But who is the "debate" with?

Jabbernuts, 1. I feel sorry for you, but hope as you grow, you’ll find your place in life. I do think you have some mental capacity, but you have too big of an ego to rationally materialize it. And I hope that you are not too late (like some others) to find a proper place in life. Over the last year, I have witnessed several denigrating/decaying personalities. They come and they go. One more, one less, what's the difference? 2. You don't have/own threads here. 3. You are pathetic. But who is perfect, right? P.S. I welcome your extensive usage of dictionaries, as of lately. [ November 21, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

quote:Originally posted by bellthecat: I wonder if the likes of MJ have seen in American media pictures like that row dead children in the cited news report? (Or do Americans get off on looking at pictures of children they have murdered). The likes of MJ may have not seen such pictures, but occasionally they read materials like in this thread. And then they exclaim, "What a pathology...” By the way, I great you both for finding each other.

UNITED NATIONS EDUCATIONAL, SCIENTIFIC AND CULTURAL ORGANIZATION Address by Mr Koïchiro Matsuura Director-General of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) Republic of Armenia-UNESCO-UNDP Donors’ Conference Regeneration Through Culture Yerevan, 20 November 2001 Distinguished Ministers, Dear Colleague, Ladies and Gentlemen, Allow me to begin by welcoming you all here today to this important Donors’ Conference, organized jointly by the Government of the Republic of Armenia, UNESCO and UNDP. On behalf of UNESCO, I would like to say how pleased we are to be able to support this Conference and at the same time to collaborate in this way with UNDP and the Government of Armenia. This kind of joint venture between different international organizations, in close cooperation with the national authorities, offers many advantages in terms of organizational effectiveness, the sharing of expertise and networks, and the possibility of fresh initiatives in the future. It is an added personal pleasure to be able to visit this fascinating country, particularly as I have never before had the opportunity to do so. Moreover, it is a happy coincidence that my visit allows me to join with you in celebrating two historic anniversaries: the 10th anniversary of Armenia’s independence and the 1,700th anniversary of the adoption of Christianity as the official state religion. As you know, this Conference is designed to attract external funds for projects that identify ways through which Armenia’s rich and ancient culture can serve as a vehicle for promoting prosperity and development. It is my hope that this Conference will forge new links with external partners, thereby helping to regenerate the economy. In so doing, it will help to underpin Armenia’s position in the Caucasus region, which is called upon to assume a key role in the present international context. You may be sure that UNESCO will make every effort to encourage constructive dialogue in the entire region to this end, particularly through its “Caucasus Plan”, which is aimed at promoting educational, scientific and cultural cooperation between Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia. The projects chosen for presentation at this Conference are an indication of the country’s development potential, particularly in the field of cultural tourism. Some are aimed specifically at restoring and enhancing the presentation of Armenia’s architectural heritage, including a number of sites selected from its profusion of churches, monasteries and basilicas. This unique ecclesiastical architecture, which flourished for many centuries, is a striking expression of the Armenian cultural tradition. Its distinctive blend of originality and multiple cultural influences will surely attract many visitors to the country. Once it has been properly restored, it will be seen as an example of how, with imagination and initiative, the protection of cultural heritage can also be linked to purposes of economic development. Many of the projects being presented at this Conference propose to transform city-centres and other sites of Armenian vernacular architecture into places that tourists will wish to visit. This transformation will include restoring buildings, developing craft industries, and upgrading museums, galleries, shops, restaurants, hotels and cafés. Venues such as these would not only enhance the environment and increase the local communities’ pride in their surroundings but also would bring useful employment opportunities, particularly for women and young people. Other possible projects, including some for eco-tourism and mountain tourism, could also bring valuable, sustainable employment to rural districts and regions of the country that have not benefited as they might have done during the years of transition. Projects such as these bring to mind Armenia’s natural and geographical diversity, which lends itself to undertakings such as adventure tourism. Many of the proposed projects refer to the country’s variety of physical features, and propose to utilize it for mountain home-stays, trekking, and even rural and crafts development. Four projects explicitly seek to develop information resources about Armenia and to improve national capacity in the tourist industry. Ladies and Gentlemen, I have already spoken of the widespread interest in Armenia abroad. It has to be said, however, that there is sometimes a lack of reliable and up-to-date information about the country, information that may be of interest to tourists wishing to include Armenia in their itinerary. It is to be hoped that projects such as yours will remedy this situation and, in addition, draw attention to Armenia’s intangible heritage. Armenia’s religious traditions, language, and alphabet dating from the 5th century AD are the source of a wealth of literature that is as representative of the nation’s cultural identity as the country’s architecture. Armenian literature, both ancient and modern, ranges from religious poetry to historical writing, not to speak of plays and novels written in the course of the last two centuries which draw liberally on the country’s folklore. Interestingly, some of the projects propose to examine ways of utilizing this intangible heritage for purposes of economic and cultural development, notably through crafts and information databases using Web resources. Ladies and Gentlemen, This unique country has long stood at the historical crossroads of great empires where it has tenaciously preserved its identity. Of course, the Greek, Roman, Persian, Byzantine, Turkish and Russian empires all left their imprint here. The splendid cultural tapestry that is to be seen wherever the visitor to Armenia looks could not have been woven without the influence of many different cultures and civilizations. We are all aware of the stresses of the transition period for many former Soviet republics of the region. In the case of Armenia, these stresses were exacerbated as a result of the 1988 earthquake that caused so much death and destruction. I believe, however, that we may look to the future with growing confidence. Such initiatives as this Donors’ Conference, aimed at linking economic and cultural development and opening up the region to foreign investment, are most promising. I wish you every success in your work over the next few days. UNITED NATIONS EDUCATIONAL, SCIENTIFIC AND CULTURAL ORGANIZATION Address by Mr Koïchiro Matsuura Director-General of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) at the State University of Yerevan Yerevan, 20 November 2001 Mr Rector, Excellencies, Ladies and Gentlemen, Allow me to express to you, Mr Rector, my sincere gratitude on receiving the degree of doctor honoris causa and the Golden Medal of the University, and my great pleasure in being the guest today of this distinguished university, which has played such a central role in shaping your country’s intellectual community. I wish to consider the distinction that you have conferred upon me as a tribute, above all, to the ideals of UNESCO, which I have the honour to serve as Director-General and which now numbers 188 Member States, with a secretariat made up of some 140 different nationalities. This is, in fact, my first visit to Armenia. It certainly is a happy coincidence that it has allowed me to share in your nation’s pride as it celebrates two historic anniversaries: the 10th anniversary of Armenian independence and the 1,700th anniversary of the adoption of Christianity as the official state religion. In a few months’ time, Armenia will also be able to look back on ten years of membership of UNESCO, an organization fully devoted to many of the national values you hold dear, including the preservation of cultural heritage, a veneration of books and learning, respect for cultural dignity and diversity, scientific cooperation across all borders, and, of course, Education for All. The intellectual contribution of each Member State to UNESCO’s work is crucial for the relevance of the Organization’s programme. That is why Armenia’s membership is widely perceived as a great opportunity for intellectual and cultural enrichment. The preamble to UNESCO’s Constitution very wisely states that lasting peace must be founded on the intellectual and moral solidarity of humanity. Armenia is a symbol of humanity’s capacity to overcome unspeakable hardship and tragedy through the enduring vitality, dignity, resilience and embrace of learning and culture among men and women like you. Armenia’s contribution to the history of humanity is, in fact, more cultural than political, as reflected in the widely-renowned creativity and resourcefulness of the Armenian genius that has throughout many centuries given birth to masterpieces of architecture, painting, literature, music and sculpture. Not surprisingly, then, Armenia has often been called a vast open-air museum. By the entrance to the famous Japanese garden at UNESCO Headquarters in Paris, we proudly display a khachkar (please excuse my pronunciation!), or stone cross, presented to UNESCO as a gift from your government. UNESCO has inscribed three sites in Armenia on its World Heritage List and is working to make these and other forms of Armenian cultural expression, both past and present, better known to the world. In this regard, I had the pleasure of opening this morning [check 20 November], a conference to help attract donor investment for Armenian culture from the public and private sector, as well as to present a series of cultural projects that are now ready for funding. The conference – which we called “Regeneration through Culture” – was co-organized by the Armenian Government, UNESCO and the United Nations Development Programme. It is indeed my conviction that the rest of the world has much to gain from studying Armenian culture, the Armenian way of life and, in particular, the spiritual and traditional features of your nation. I strongly feel that large parts of the world’s population are gradually becoming aware of a fact which has been UNESCO’s basic assumption from its very inception, namely that no country in the world can claim to be culturally superior to all the others, and that no country can be considered as culturally insignificant. The world as a whole is now confronting unprecedented forms of terrorism and cultural conflicts advocated by voices of intolerance and hate. UNESCO’s General Conference of 188 Member States was, in fact, the first intergovernmental body to condemn terrorism and to affirm unequivocally that no motives can ever justify any act of terrorism. UNESCO’s mandate is to seek concrete ways to address the root causes of violence through even greater cooperation by governments and grassroots civil society in the fields of education, science, culture and communication. This task has become an urgent priority and I think that the agenda of UNESCO as a cultural, intellectual and political forum is more relevant today than ever before. There is an increasing awareness that culture is at the heart of contemporary debates on identity and social cohesion, and that it represents a key area for humanity’s endeavour to forge its common future. Armenians, through their long-standing devotion to books and the written word, through their great alphabet created by Mesrop Mashtots, through the vitality of their language and their ability to embrace foreign cultures, and through their position as a bridge connecting the great cultures and civilizations of this vital region, can guide a proud and resilient country forward to progress and peace through tolerance, dialogue, dignity, forgiveness and redemption: here then is another aspect of “regeneration through culture”. This month, UNESCO’s General Conference took key steps that will better shape the direction of our cultural programmes over the coming years. First, it adopted the Universal Declaration on Cultural Diversity, which I am confident will be a standard-setting instrument and advocacy tool against exploitation of cultural differences to justify human rights violations. Second, it approved my initiative of undertaking the preparation of an international normative instrument to safeguard “intangible” cultural heritage such as the music and folklore of threatened communal traditions all around the world, thereby completing the Organization’s arsenal of normative instruments for the protection of the world cultural heritage, both tangible and intangible. With its strong cultural identity and its wealth of cultural traditions, Armenia supported these two initiatives, which in my view have a special significance in an era of accelerated globalization. UNESCO and the State University of Yerevan – through its high level of research and teaching excellence – are natural partners in a common mission to build peace, sustainable development and democracy through the advancement of knowledge and the promotion of learning opportunities for all. I am happy to note in this connection the existence of three UNESCO Chairs at your University. Especially in democratic societies, intellectuals like you have an ethical role to play both within your own communities and in an interface with other cultures. I firmly believe that Armenia’s educators, artists, scientists, policy makers, lawmakers, cultural workers and journalists can make an outstanding contribution through UNESCO’s many scientific, cultural, communication and educational networks to the global endeavour to build peace through dialogue among civilizations and through a culture of non-violence. They know that UNESCO is their natural ally and that they can feel at home in our Organization. I invite them to join UNESCO’s efforts towards a world of non-violence by standing up against all those who are guided by intolerance, hate and violence. Mr Rector, Excellencies, Ladies and Gentlemen, Before concluding, I should like to touch on a subject that is of particular concern to UNESCO and to me personally, namely UNESCO’s initiative to promote cooperation between Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia in the framework of our “Caucasus Plan” project. As this project provides for a wide range of educational, scientific and cultural activities to be carried out jointly by specialists, academic institutions and governmental bodies of the three States, it is only natural that UNESCO should give it unswerving support. Convinced that professional encounters between intellectuals and institutions are indispensable for medium-term and long-term international cooperation, UNESCO has helped to organize such encounters in a systematic fashion. I was happy to see various concrete projects starting up in the field of education (e.g. through meetings of pedagogical and linguistic institutes of Yerevan, Baku and Tbilisi), natural sciences (e.g. through high-level meetings of representatives of the three Academies of Sciences) and culture (e.g. by organizing seminars and conferences on how to implement UNESCO Conventions on the protection of cultural heritage). I was encouraged by the address which your Minister of Foreign Affairs, H.E. Mr Vartan Oskanian, delivered in October this year to UNESCO’s General Conference; especially when, in conclusion, he pledged Armenia’s commitment to foster regional cooperation by “finding ways for our common human values and cultural, scientific interests to take precedence over our individual differences and divisions.” These are clear and wise terms. He may rest assured that UNESCO and I personally spare no efforts to remind all concerned of the solemn commitments taken when they accepted the principles and ideals laid down in UNESCO’s Constitution, a prerequisite to join UNESCO as a Member State. It grieves my heart to see conflict and force prevail over dialogue and reason in times of tension. Global international cooperation must build on a system of sub-regional and regional cooperation, and there can be no global peace without peace in the regions. For more than half a century, UNESCO has been committed to creating peace in the minds of men and women everywhere. This is its overall mission, and the tragic events of 11 September 2001 have made it more pressing and more important than ever before. Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to share these thoughts with you.

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Correction: instead of Paul Globe in my material above, please read Paul Goble (hope this time I got it right).

TB, I am aware of Enver and some others of comparable profile being stunt pan-Turkists at the time. However, I don’t see in what way Armenians of Ottoman Empire where obstacle to such alleged plans. I would argue that [Western] Armenians where not obstacle to any such plans – merely didn’t have the capacity to become obstacle in any sense. As far as the post-Attaturk, moreover post-Soviet pan-Turkist dreams are concerned, I think these have been about a common Turkic cultural space, rather than geography outside some marginal political movements inside Turkey. I strongly doubt that Turkey is interested in creating a “pan-Turkic Empire.” Evidently, Turkey is longing towards the EU. Additionally, I strongly doubt that any of the Central Asian States or Azerbaijan, for that matter, are even contemplating surrendering their Sovereignty to any degree. Most of them sit on vast energy resources, and under proper circumstances they would make fortune. Why should they surrender it to some esoteric idea? As far as the cultural pan-Turkism is concerned, I don’t see anything in it that should be of concern for Armenians. If Turks want to share common cultural space beyond that of what they do now, why should it concern us? As far as Zangezur and Nakhichevan are concerned, sure historically this has been strongly aspired by Azerbaijan and Turkey. But in its current form, the idea has been brought to the surface by Paul Globe of USA, and subsequently has become another instrument of political prostitution in the internal Armenian political life. Globe himself claims as of lately that this concept is unrealistic, though it may sound “logical” theoretically speaking. However, it has been an instrument for shaking Kocharian’s grip over the Republic. As far as Nakhichevan goes, I think it is one of the greatest mysteries of our history (perhaps next to Kars). Clearly, while the Republic of Armenia has contested Nakhichevan in 1918-1920, it has not been able to control it – Nakhichevan has not been formally part of the Republic of Armenia and, moreover, at the time it has declared independence. Some Armenian Generals have been fooled by the Brits at the time, when attempting to expend the Armenian control over Nakhichevan. However, another interesting aspect of it is that the current day Nakhichevan is about 1/3 larger than what the province of Sharur-Nakhichevan has constituted at the time, when the Russo-Turkish treaty has “allocated” Nakhichevan to Azerbaijan. One of the subjects requiring special investigation is how did Nakhichevan wind up being by 1/3 larger than what it has meant even by the March 17, 1921 treaty. I discovered this descrepency about 15 years ago, when studying the text of the Russo-Turkish Treaty. Don’t have a compelling explanation, yet. And guess what, that 1/3 incorporates the part of the Republic of Armenia, which has never been conquered by Turkey or Azerbaijan. Isn’t our history full of illogical cataclysms? So, the first attempt of Turkey to have common border with Azerbaijan goes back to the pre-Iranian swap period. In that sense, perhaps you are right that Turkey has had a long term plan. However, I doubt it is about a common state with Azerbaijan. If not for the internal public opinion, I think the leadership of Turkey may have found Armenia to be a more reliable potential partner in economic and other matters than Azerbaijan. But they cannot be public about it. Anyway, what I am trying to say is that the concept of pan-Turkism as underlying motivation of Turkey in 1915 and subsequently, moreover in our days is significantly blown out of all reasonable proportions, in my view.