MJ

BTW, where has the above referenced message of Boghos disappear?

quote:Originally posted by MadArmo: quote:Originally posted by Boghos: I think that when we dig down in Armenian history we see that the Church doesn´t confirm the verdict of national institution. And much less Christian in the strict sense. Your perception of the Armenian church is invalid, And damaging not to mention reckless. I suppose Gomidas confirms the importance for higher education by the church while we were being occopied by invaders... It was the only national institution available to our forfathers. I think I wouldn't be original if I claim that I disagree with MadArmo’s statements and his sentiment, and I think that his attitude is very damaging and reckless towards the Armenian nation. It is absolutely evident from the entire Armenian history that the Armenian Church has almost never been a national institution, but an institution into-itself and serving its own interests at the expense of the Armenian nation. Moreover, the Institution of Armenian Church has been the number one enemy of the nation and the number one responsible party for its distraction effective the fall of the Arshakuni Kingdom – first for the sake of the Hellenization of Armenia, second for its own sake. And the comment about Gomoidas… I think it is hard to understand what was the underlying argument.

About a month ago I met Peter Balakian in a semi-formal setting. I was much disappointed. I had even an unpleasent discussion with him. I found him to be one of the "old guard" and an "arrogant son of a gun." While he certainly has literary and other style and class, his message was much of nothing - "me, me upper-midle class upbringing, my memories, my assimilation, my discomfort,my rediscovery of my identity and my confusion about it" etc. The man has absolutely no vision for this nation and still lacks identity - his Armenian identity is just a result of reverse association with the Turks. What a mixed bag!

quote:Originally posted by Twilight Bark: Was he also Celt? P.S. The sky was in labour, the earth was in labour, The purple sea also was in labour. In the sea was a red reed, also in labour. Out of the stalk of the reed smoke emerged. Out of the stalk of the reed flame emerged, And running out of the flame was a xarteash ("fair, light, flaxen") lad. He had hair of fire. He had a beard of flame And his eyes were suns. (29) http://rbedrosian.com/soma.htm [ April 21, 2002, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: MJ ]

quote:Originally posted by THOTH:No doubt (good to see you by the way...and concerning a subject near & dear to me)... Thanks. As you might guess, I was on an expedition to spiritually connect with my roots and to get to understand the true origins of wine.

“It is a sobering thought that some spot on map below, unfamiliar as it is to most modern wine-lovers, may be the very place where man first tasted the wine. Whether it was in Turkey or Armenia that the first wine was made, there is no doubt that the Middle East is wine’s birthplace. Eastern Mediterranean was the France and Italy of the ancient world - until the eighth century and the advent of Islam. The World Atlas of Wine By Hugh Johnson and Fancis Robinson Fifth Edition, 2001 Page 264” The map, which is referenced in the text, points at the geography of contemporary Turkey.

quote:Originally posted by aurguplu: thoth, now as for karabekir, he had not taken part in the genocide per se (1915), he couldn't have, as he was stationed elsewhere. he entered the scene later, in 1919 if my memory doesn't fail me, and at that time he was fighting an invading armenian army in anatolia, and not civilians (i do not rule out that civilians also died, but that was not the main aim). karabekir is also known to have made statements highly critical of the "purges" of the armenians by the CUP, so you cannot really call the man an incorrigible enemy of the armenians, nor did he set that much store to the pan-islamic or pan-turanian fantasies of enver (few ever had). regards, With all due respect, I am very much puzzled, Ali. Which Armenian Army was invading Anatolia in 1919? Where does such an insinuation like this come from? Additionally, the Armenian Genocide has continued on the watch of Karabekir up to the year 1923 (primarily in Cilicia), when Armenians, finally, have been wiped out of the Ottoman Empire. Additionally, the POWs of the Russian Army of Armenian ethnicity have been slaughtered under Karabekir's watch in the post 1918 era, while the Turkish and Russian POWs have been exchanged. The only difference between Talaat and Karabekir has been that Karabekir has been smarter. I understand the efforts of the Turkish side to present the founder of the modern Turkish state as a person holding high ground, but it is a futile effort. Karabekir has been no different to the CUP. He has just taken a duplicitous posture to separate himself from the CUP in the eyes of the Europeans, but in essence he has been absolutely the same murderer and monster as the rest of the bunch.

One potential answer may be that when Jesus was born, he was not Christ at the time. He has been born again, and become Christ after being baptized. P.S. Therefore, it is quite possible that the celebration of Christmas just amplifies the birth of Christ through baptism. Btw, this interpretation is consistent with the beliefs of the Paulicians. [ January 13, 2002: Message edited by: MJ ]

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: Collectible item ? You can think of it as an old Soviet memorabilia. I recall you collecting, some, right?

? [ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: MJ ]

Yes. One with a "Babushka" pointing finger at you (a la WWII), and asking "Do you have a counter-intelligence check-mark?"

Sure.

OK... Here is one. A leaf falls on the lake, and starts doubling its size every minute. In eight minutes after falling, it covers the entire surface of the lake. When might've it covered half of the lake?

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: Of course there are some that consider themselves Armenians, and even fierce nationalists, that cannot accept that. Exactly! They consider themselves to be Armenians. But that belonging is too superficial. As to the nationalism, they pretend to be nationalists. They are just small, petty people, with an enormous luggage of hate and nothing else. These superficial nationalists have no homeland. They are just fictitious enemy haters and animosity perpetuators.

quote:Originally posted by edward demian: Since Armenia does not really want the Diasporan Armenians, we need to think of our own survival. ??? Survival for what purpose?

Talking of acumen, I would be pleasantly surprised if Edward Demirakian can present one evidence of possessing acumen, at least between his inhaling sessions, since I, for one, cannot explain to any degree the mess that takes place in his head. By the way, his last post reminds me his story of the sharks eating Armenian victims of genocide in the “ancient Sassoun.”

Who? Me? Get out of here.... How could I call Khodja Mustafa?

First, you are lying. I have not accused you in being a Turk, especially becasue of your renting. Second, I don't think you have ever followed what I have said. Third, I have never had anything to do with the Armenian Community, so that to be "hurt" by it.

I think the Palm String Armenian Community should go to hell with its pathological and superficial pride. If they wanted to be useful to Armenia, there were hundreds of other ways to do it. But all they want is to prove something to themselves, at the expense of appearing just perennial idiots. And if their drive had anything to do with Jesus Christ, they would’ve been happy with a conference room in a mediocre hotel for their worships. I hope that one day this generation of superficial Armenians will just vanish from the face of earth with no trace, taking along their unbearable legacy, which makes one feel ashamed for being Armenian.

No, there is elsewhere. But what does it matter?

Edward, Isn't there one person in his healthy mind in your community to tell you that what you are contemplating is extremely stupid? God save Armenia!

In case there is a confussion, karabagh.org is maintained by Azeris, I think.

Khodja, I am in good Christmas spirit, therefore don't want to go back to the earlier diagnosis given to you.

Ai Khodja... You don't belong to any curlture. You are big time confused boy between different cultures, and even at your age you are searching for your place. I would say, welcome home.

OK. I'll give you that. It's a Christmas time.