MJ

Armat, I think you have dropped the keyword from your argument, which is "illegal” immigrants. We all are immigrants in this country and, by in large, play by the rules or at least pretend to do so. Why instead of standing up for the rights of illegal immigrants, and thus violating twice the laws of the land, not to legalize their status or to expend the perimeters of immigration? Wouldn't it be better to legally migrate to the country people who, as you claim, are that critical for the local economies? I think this goes to the heart of the problem that was earlier discussed - with all good impressions some people are creating more problems then attempting to provide acceptable solutions to them.

I would not even dignify to you an answer.

I have never been able to extract the esthetical value of his poetry. Also, if I am not mistaken, Gamar Katipa was not his pen name but a name of a small literary group consisting of several writers. In Gamar Katipa r and p correspond to his name while the rest of the letters correspond to the rest of the writers in that group. Doesn't the following belong to him: "Myer Araxi aperov Mtamolor qailum em yes...?" In Armenia his six columes (maybe eight ?) were published in the old days. He is well known for his novel "Hatci Khndir" (Problem of Bread.) Very difficult to read...

Sorry. No comments due to the lack of content.

Stormy, Your response is too long for me to go line-by-line at this time. I can only afford saying that there is some misrepresentation in what you write (I know you are not the author), there are some irrelevant points. In general, whatever this administration has said before the war, it says the same thing now. And I have not seen a shred of evidence suggesting that they have lied - no such evidence in the media nor in your latest post.

Thanks, Arpa. It started to work for me. [Actually both work for me, now, Sip. You may need to change your Encoding.]

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Stormy, On the basis of what are you claiming it?

And would you be kind enough to enlighten us as who the "enemies of our people" are?

Stormy, I actually think it is a quite bad material. There is not a single fact in its body, and as you rightly described in your last material, it is an ideological crap based on “he said, she said.” I don’t think that anything that is going in and around Iraq can be accurately described by the “profit” factor. The thing is that when people have preconceived theories, they try to tailor the facts in such a manner that would support their theories. They also chose "facts" in such a selective manner so that to support their ill-construed theories and the large body of relevant information always remains outside their radar screen. To them, the most natural and logical things always look like “conspiracy” and so on.

So why didn't it save the Armenians of Bangladesh?

Give it a little more time, Stormy. I am sure you may realise a few more things then, and you may change your mind on this last garbage from the World Socialist Association, too.

Yes, TFC. There is too much Russia in the picture. It denigrates Armenia.

Thanks, PF. Wish you all the best, too.

Armat, I am not denouncing the pursuit for justice. I also think that “parallel directions” does not properly describe a meaningful course of actions. I rather think that there should be one direction which might be broad enough to encompass every meaningful thing and everything in its proper context. I am having a hard time to characterize the currently observable “strategy of the pursuit for justice” as pursuit for justice. As far as the murderers’ getting away without saying “I am sorry” is concerned, it is much to be thought about on how to get them say “I am sorry.” Additionally, being “sorry” is something that they have to feel. Saying that they are “sorry” without really feeling that way does not address in any meaningful way the fundamental need other than helping them in getting away with it.

Dear PF: A vast segment of Armenians wants to be recognized as victims. That’s what even the terminology “Genocide Recognition” suggests. It is a state of a psychological dead-end that the socio-psychological setup of the Armenian Diaspora has driven this segment into. It has resulted from several factors. First of all, Armenians have indeed been victimized. But the Genocide is only one of the victimization factors. This syndrome in the psyche of the Armenian nation has started way before the Genocide. It has a history of almost 300 years. The sad fact of the mater is that this obsession over the victimization syndrome has resulted from the lack of perspective for the future. Some wise man has said something sounding like the people who cannot get over their past have no future. It can be rephrased here and asserted that the victimized people who see no positive outlook for their future have nothing else for themselves but to live with their past. Under such circumstances they grow liking their troubled past. It sort of provides them with a good foundation to excuse themselves from the responsibility of doing on their own what needs to be done. Then, they dwell into theories based on faulty assumptions, which eventually leads to the formation of a pseudo-culture. The entire paradigm of their existence becomes built around an insinuation that others owe them something and as soon as a stamp of approval is placed on their victimized status, things would get much better. If the entire nation dwells into such a state of psychological dead-end, one can claim that the expiration date of such a nation can be seen on the horizon. However, that is not the case with all of the Armenians. There is a growing sentiment among the younger Armenians that enough is enough. True, these people are in minority currently – especially those who raise their voice. But the Republic of Armenia is only 12 years old. Increasing numbers of people recognize that the new outlook for the future is going to come from the Republic and is associated with the Republic. Time will make this paradigm a prevailing one – there is no way around it. And Armenians are not without help to rebuild their future. In the last decade or so, the Republic of Armenia has consistently been the second largest recipient of American foreign aid on a per-capita basis. The help, not necessarily in terms of cash assistance, has come from many different corners of the world and not only from Christian nations. As you might know, Armenia has received significant assistance from Iran. Japan and China have also been occasional contributors. In this sense, Christianity is the least of the factors. Besides, we are not a Christian nation but a secular one. As far as Jews are concerned, I think the picture is frequently misrepresented as far as their psyche is concerned. There is a significant revolt amongst the younger Jews, in and out of Israel, against their own victimization syndrome. I have met very high profile Jews who have told me that they feel ashamed for the financial compensation received by the Jewish people for the endurance of the Holocaust. I also know some who have personally accepted compensation and claim that they can’t get over the trauma that it has caused to them and they still feel ashamed. Young and progressive Jews are much like the progressive representatives of any other nation. And they constitute not a small number. Many of them feel very resentful at the phenomenon of “Jew” and “Holocaust” being inseparable attributes of each other. Additionally, Armenians don’t lack organizations. Several Armenian organizations have proven their resiliency, though many traditional organizations have ceased to exist due to their lack of a vision for the future. It all depends on their mission. The mission has changed. Those who recognize it and adjust themselves, continue to grow, the others just expire. This is normal. If there is any recognition that Armenians may count on that would be on the grounds of turning the Republic of Armenia into a model state manifesting civic and democratic society and an anchor of regional cooperation and stability. It is not that hard to accomplish. If Armenians have to be recognized for their suffering, they’d better stop to exist sooner rather than later, since that kind of parasitic state of existence and image is neither something to be proud of nor desired. And welcome to the Hye Forum.

Around 1988, there where about 150,000 Armenians living in Karabagh and about 30,000 Azeris (give or take.) The numbers of Azeri refugees are grossly exaggerated.

Steve, I would suspect that it is easy to find out. All it may take is to contact the Mkhitarian headquarter and ask what is knowm about Lord Byron's reception by the Mkhitarians.

Steve, Aivasovski's brother has been a very high profile Mkhitarian monk. I would suspect that Aivazovski has painted the presented painting based on the stories conveyed to him by his brother.

Who other than Turkey and Azerbaijan has challenged the occurrence of the Armenian Genocide? How many US academicians do you know that are influenced by the Turkish state and how many are not? Where does the statistics “and the few that are in the United States seem to be in the majority influenced by the Turkish state through bribes, grants, etc. to tell the Turkish states thesis on the Armenian genocide and other issues” come from? Who has spoken here about the politicization of Holocaust? Wasn’t the discussion in this thread about morality? What is the relevance of all this to the discussion of the subject that has been presented above? Furthermore, the original article of this thread claims, “Bearing vigilant and constant witness and fighting Holocaust denial are part of the Jewish responsibility to history.” The question is whether Armenians and Greeks, for that matter, have similar responsibility to the history of other nations and humanity in general? P.S. As a minor comment of technical character, USSR has been formed in 1930.

Armat, I agree with you again. This leads me to believe that it would be proper if we, Armenians, in and out of this forum leave the pedestal of moral superiority and look at ourselves first, analyze our own conduct, before we can have any expectations and present requests to others. What I would also add is this: our own stance is driven by two major factors - realpolitiks and self-obsession. Both factors drive also the rest of the nations/states. The problem, though, is that our posture denigrates our psyche and social fabric, which has far going consequences for the future of our nation .

Question: Do any of the Armenian textbooks speak of any genocide of any other nation? In particular, Assyrian, Pontic Greek (both have taken place under our nose), Cambodian, etc? Furthermore, has Armenia recognized any Genocide other than our own? In particular, have any of the Armenian organizations, political parties and the government, ever made any statement on their recognition of the Jewish Holocaust?

Iranian Man Charged With Arms Export Violations Thursday , September 25, 2003 By Orlando Salinas MIAMI — Federal agents have arrested an Iranian man for violating arms export laws and trying to sell spare weapons parts to Iran's government. Based on information from the Department of Homeland Security, Fox News has learned that agents from the Immigration and Customs Enforcement bureau said before they arrested the 40-year-old man, they told him what he was planning on doing was illegal. The arrest took place last Friday inside a room at the Embassy Suites hotel in Miami. According to federal officials, Serzhik Avasappian was arrested for violating the Arms Export Control Act and the International Traffic in Arms Regulations Act. He apparently did not have the required export license from the State Department. ICE agents had reportedly been in contact, undercover, with Avasappian since January 2002. Federal officials said he told them he was a broker based in Tehran and was trying to buy spare weapons parts for the Iranian government. The United States has placed Iran on its list of countries that sponsor terrorism, and that nation is strongly thought to be conducting secret nuclear weapons programs. On Thursday, weapons inspectors from the U.N.'s International Atomic Energy Agency reportedly found more traces of highly enriched, weapons-grade uranium in Iran. Iran insists its nuclear program is for peaceful energy purposes. Back in the 1970s, the United States sold dozens of F-14s to Iran but severed all ties once the shah was overthrown in 1979. Federal officials say Avasappian was trying to buy nearly $800,000 worth of parts for those F-14 jets as well as electrical parts for C-130 cargo planes and helicopters. Avasappian didn't know he was dealing with undercover agents. "Keeping sensitive U.S. military components from falling into the wrong hands is one of the highest priorities of the ICE," ICE interim Special Agent-in-Charge Jesus Torres said in a statement. "While these components may appear relatively innocuous to the untrained eye, they are tightly controlled for good reason. In the wrong hands they pose a potential threat to Americans at home and abroad." Avasappian was being held without bond at the Miami Federal Detention Center. He made his first appearance in federal court Wednesday in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. It was unclear whether an attorney had been assigned to him. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,98313,00.html

Wow that's remarkable... you should be proud of yourself having Marashlian, Hovhannesian, Bournoutian and Russel share your views. All that remains is that you read their work so that perhaps you could also share their view.

Now, this one could qualify as a masterpiece of fiction literature...