hagopn

I can't believe this debate is still raging among ARmenians! Don't you, as Armenians, ALREADY know your identity? Aren't you proud of who you are? If you're not, then go and join Stormfront or whatever other fake nationalist trash site. I am proud of my dark haired uncle Nerses who singlehandedly remoulded the musical culture of the country he lived in. He acted like the Komitas of Ethiopia, collected their songs, rearranged them into various forms and orchestrations such as 4 part choirs, jazz groups, and so on. Where were the "blond Aryan'" shits in the meanwhile, eh? We ARmenians ARE the noble race who, when in another man's country, think of ourselves as guests and honor the traditions of that country and in fact attempt to improve it. If all some of you know about Armenians are the "gangs in hollywood," and think of us as some inferior "race, then you are pathetic fools, ignoramuses who should be sterilized!

HAHAHA, you are definitely THE wild man-- edematously indeed!

Leo Frobenius is being proven correct, time and again.

Now, if one wants to learn something valuable, I put us back on the topic and say that Sevak's prose is just as valuable as his poetry, perhaps more so. Most don't realize just how high a caliber of a true scholar he was. His thesis on Sayat Nova is the best I have read, only to be supplemented by what followed him.

Quite honestly, it is possible since Abeghian has produced very valuable scholarship. He was not one of the typical derelict half-wits that the Bolsheviks selected as tyrants and "commissars" to ruin our lives. He was an actual scholar who had been working decades before Bolshevism. I have heard that the semi-legible compromise, the current orthography, was Ajarian's handiwork, not Abeghian's. If one is to indulge in wishful thinking, it may just as well be that Abeghian could have been also a man of integrity, but why did he publish his reformist thoughts prior to the turn of the century if that was the case?. As to the Hanragitaran, it is a Bolshevik publication that still keeps on distorting our collective minds, along with the OT and its tribal fascism passed off as divine revelation. It is the Monkey Syndrome to the extreme. Agreed.

Although often semi-reliable only (verify his tragically borderline comical inaccurate version of Hypathia's story with the actual primary sources that talk about it), Carl Sagan once said that the more adventurous and progressive, technically speaking, of the "Greeks" (not really, as we will continue to discover as time passes) were the Ionians. He said that the Ionians were the only "Greeks" who were not afraid to get their hands dirty and experiment, dig the earth, work hard to make dicoveries and improvements in life. Ionian, really, means "those who live in Asia Minor." It doesn't merely mean the coastal cities such as Ephesus and Smyrna. It means the entire Asia Minor, ethnoculturally speaking, since most of the Ionian cities were directly connected with and constantly interacted with, had constant flow of itinerants, from and with the interior of Asia Minor. Remember that the most influential state that encompassed the entire coastline of what later was known as the Ionian coast, that of Arzawa (Artzva! yes, Eagle!), was thought to have been an extension of the Hatti (Hittite) empire. THat to me says it all. TO most, Monkeys of course, it will mean nothing, but to me it says it all. Then there is this enigmatic "Pamphyilia" sometimes mentioned in Plato's works, particularly the Republic (Book X, to be precise, my favorite part of the entire series, really the only part I like.) Pamphylia, no matter how the Monkey Academia keeps on slicing, dicing, mincing, mixing, grinding, and grating, refers to Armenia. Yes, Armenia. Plato says that the hellenic wisdom came from there. He doesn't say Egypt. He does not at all say Babylon, or Akkad, or Sumer, or Assyria, or Persian. He doesn't say "Somasabahanastakhatabalata that was Harappa or Mohenjo Daro" or whatever ridiculous concoction in order to avoid simply saying ARmenia, Armenia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_Er He says that the source of higher wisdom, such as "the secret to immortality" (and resurrection, interestingly enough) was from Er, son of Armenios from Pamphylia. It is a mythical parable, but it says it all for me. What does this mean? I'll choose as a faithful and loyal Armenian to the Armenian identity that my forefathers gave me to mean ARmenia! What the hell else do you expect me to do? However, all this is now gone. Now Ionia is a cesspool populated and controlled by parasitic culture of majority parasites.

Also, in Raffi's time we didn't have such profound knowledge of genetics and true heritage. Recall the phrase "you are what you eat." It is even more profound than that: "Your children will be the life you live. You don't believe me? THen read http://www.geodakian.com/en/10_intro_en.htm Vigen Geodakyan, who just happens to be not a Kurd, and for that reason is a leading scientist, perhaps the top geneticist of the era. What does Dr. Geodakyan say? He says that environmental factors have a profound influence particularly on the male genetic pool, the one more susceptible to renewal and change even within a single generation! What impact does this have on us? All the impact in the world! The moral of the story is that if you live as a parasite, no matter how many "good quality women" (which, Kurds, the pedophiles they were mostly abducted children, really, before or barely in puberty) you abduct, rape, and force to reproduce for you, you will still be a Parasite! It still never occurs to these primitives, who are still at it in Syria, abducting and raping, that women are not equipment to be used for reproductive and "genetic improvement" programs. You are what you live. FOr this reason, as I mention above, the Armenian Plateau and the rest of Asia Minor were once perhaps the most important centers of civilization, yes rivaling and often surpassing the primarily superstitious Egypt for most of its career, and the usurious Mesopotamia for most its career. Unfortunately for mankind, Babylon's "model" is winning, and for this reason, we have parasites given priority. Usurers, supreme parasites themselves, like to sponsor more primitive and short-sighted parasites against their rivals. THe parasites have yet to make anything of this land that was once controlled by civilization. It is still relatively speaking a cesspool Let's face it, Ankara is simply not Berlin, or Vienna, or Paris, at least what they once were prior to the EU and its predecessor destroyer of this civilization through immigration of these parasitic forms.

And, as a former avid reader, I now have little respect for Raffi as well as the entire entourage of "reovlutionaries" and "modernists" of that era with few exceptions. If anyone wishes to truly gauge Raffi, then I suggest your read his benefactor's criticisms of Raffi in the Mshak paper, the very paper that gave Raffi his break as a writer, that gave his livelihood. Of course, I speak of a truly great figure in our history, Grigor Artsruni, a natural leader from the Artsruni dynasty, someone with true foresight and understanding of the human psyche and needs. He is well remembered by a relatively more grateful pupil and beneficiary of his charity, Leo the historian. Leo's History of Armenia volume 6 is a must read. In retrospect, I would trade my entire collection of Raffi, Abovian, Krikor Zohrab, etc. for one year of Mshak, perhaps even a few issues. Khente is not my favorite read for various reasons, but one thing I agree with Raffi on is that Kurds are parasites. The only writing of any real value is the Khamsayi Melikutinnere, and even that turned out to be questionable a source after reading the primary sources he used and didn't cite well. I have no idea what fantasy land he was living in, but he certainly managed to get a lot of it wrong about ARmenians and their character and the geopolitical predicament they were in. Artsruni, however, knew exactly what he was dealing with and was busy issuing warnings to our people, but the "revolutionary" morons, including Raffi, took us down the path of the "socialist fever" with the obsessive antipathy injected in us of all that was the Baby in the Bathwater, including our classical language! As to the so-called "Noble character acquired by the Kurds", noble is certainly not a word I would use on them at any point for any reason, no matter how many rape based "genetic improvements" they supposedly achieved, turning Anatolia and the Armenian plateau, once important centers of civilization PRECISELY due to the ARmenia ethnic predominance there in its various colors, from the once civilized landscape it was into the third and fourth class cesspool that it has remained. I have also met a great number of these "noble kurds," and quite frankly I have no idea what the hell Raffi is talking about.

I have known and have dealt in the arts, life and business with all the groups concerned, Kurds, Azero/tatars, Turqiye "Republicans", and so on. Quite frankly, I like Armenians the best, objectively and subjectively speaking. THe Armenians that yielded the least fruit when partnering with them at various capacities were precisely the sort who are "politicall correct" in accordance with the limitations put upon us by the Powers That Be. THe nationalist sort were the most dedicated and productive. That is my experience. The repulsively defeatist trash written in this thread are simply disgusting.

Awe, Isn't that just so PC special? "Armenians alongside Kurds." Perhaps after 10000 years of cultural evolution, perhaps. For now, we have established the ARmenians are producers, builders, inventors, creative, civilized IF left to their own to choose their own natural leadership. Kurds, on the other hand, are still the formless parasites they were 100 years ago and beyond.

THis Munzur fellow, is he still around? In the above illumination, he established the generalizations that 1) Kurds are parasites, 2) Kurds are barbaric and uncivilized parasites, 3) Kurds are ambitious, greedy, voracious, and ungrateful parasites. In other words, ARmenians are producers, builders, progressive, civilized, if left alone, if left alone to choose their natural leadership, while Kurds are, well, parasites.

There are rules on lies that many of these mongrels continue to use to their advantage: Repetition is one. The bigger the lie, the harder it is to disbelieve is the second. So, if one is to lie, then he has to lie big, such as the entire Old Testament.

During the long drawn process of transcribing genocide survivor interviews and their fascinating stories back in the days, I ran across some interesting facts that I was not aware of: 1. I recall an interview of a certain Raquel from Van who spoke about a certain young dashnak who gave away the lcoations of the secret tunnel labyrinth and weapons caches in Van and its Aygestan district. Fascinating story of some lakot who joined the party as a so-called sentinel, but who ended up selling out his lot because his desired bride to be was denied to him. 2. I recall another elderly man whose name escapes me who explain just how the Catholic and Protestant missionaries would gain their converts. Needless to say none of the families that were still whole converted, zero, none. The only "converts" these foreign missions and congregations would get is after some upheaval and massacre binge, a typical Turkish act, that would leave orphans. THeir "recruiting" pool were exclusively orphans, ONLY orphans. Imagine, then what the Ka-Ge-Be and N-Ke-Ve-De did in their heyday. They would absolutely scour the prisons and slums, for orphans, derelicts. Case in point, the most famous of them all, Gamo. It was entirely a system based on criminality and immorality. The more criminal and immoral, the more likely you would advanced in the Party system. Now we have the United States following the same model.

Somewhere in the Kuiper Belt there is this one comet with a combination of amino acids that yielded the Traitor Haplotype. Andranik was on his way to eliminating as much of this type by eradicating any clan that produced such sorts. Yes, indeed, they were "of Armenian extraction." What does that say? Nothing except that the enemy knew how to find cracks in your social fabric, recruit and exploit all the petty and small minded souls to their advantage. All societies have their share of sociopaths, but societies specifically targeted are more severely affected by this culling process whereby the intelligent, altruistic, and courageous sort are systematically weeded out in favor of petty criminal sorts. Guess which "brotherhood" in service of what forces ridicules and eliminates altruistic thought. There is old Armenian saying: «Մեղքը ապուշացնող է»

HAHAHA, you are still the wild man!

Of course--- I'd expect that you feel the same way as I do on this The only dissenting point is that Abeghian was truly not aware when he began that his ideas would be used to open a can of worms, but his idea was stupid to begin with regardless. He then let the issue by taken over by the Bolsheviks, which makes him the coward you say he was. Agreed. Ajarian was a strong man and was dealing with a truly desperate situation of life and death for the Armenian language, really. It is sad that we have not had his equal, despite his, understandable considering the context, academic flaws.

And precisely because Sinan was no longer Christian and part of the ARmenian Millet, he was no longer considered an ARmenian by himself, ARmenians, or Ottomans. Once Muslim, you would lose your Armenian affiliation. That is merely a form of genocide. You have got to be kidding. How romantic. "Aghasi, our 12 year old was abducted and taken to Khlot Bey's harem. Barbara Cartland and Sidney Sheldon are sure to write about this wonderful romance between consenting adults. By the way, we had to name our beautiful new born daughter Aghasi so that the Bey and other (pedophile) rapists would think she was a boy and not abduct and rape her." This is really a paraphrase of an actual story. Ask Richard Hovanissian. He'll get around to publishing these interview based stories one day, perhaps in 2098. And this was indeed the case. Djevdet, my favorite vampire muse, knew well that he was of Armenian extraction. He was not even a product of "marriage" (rape-age, abduct-age), but came from a family of converts. Such converts usually did so convert to Islam in order to steal land from more worthy Christian relatives. That was the game that made Islam "strong and proud," mostly, stolen wealth by upstart converts who would later turn on their own brethren. In other words, Armenians who converted to Islam became "more Muslim that the Caliph, more Turkish than the Dervish, and more Catholic Than Mel Gibson." THey were indeed harmful to Armenians, as was Hagop Martayan harmful to ARmenians simply because he helped in the advancement of Turks. Then comes my favorite memes that Self Flagelant Armenians love to utter: "There were bad Armenians in the Soviet Union, evil bolsheviks." This guy takes the cake, though, in claiming that not only were the Islamised ARmenians "never traitors", but that there were no Armenian traitors to Turkey. Being loyal to Turkey is good for what, exactly? The simple formula from the individual above reads as such : "There are bad ARmenians, therefore Turks are good." Why not? Is he really saying aything else? TUrks have been such "great" people indeed. They have only dynamited and demolished around a 1000 chapels and monasteries, burned tens of thousands of manuscripts, raped and murdered only about 500,000 women during the genocide, Adana massacres (particularly well remembered as a pedophilia jamboree by contemporary writer Ruben Sevak, I believe), Sasun massacres, and so on. They were so nice, that they could have burned 1001 churches, but they only burned 1000, those generous *****s. THis is too much, simply too much.

In addition to the Monkey and the Banana syndrome, many ARmenians suffer from the Self Flagellation Makes Me Feel Special syndrome. I recall that you admire the likes of Manuk Abeghian and Khatchatur Abovian. I personally no longer give them the esteem they have been granted by the "revolutionary" stream that has led us down one disastrous path after another. Grigor Artsruni is my idol, and he shall remain so, along with the patient and balanced Armen Yergarian/Yerkarian. Abovian started the "qolloquialist" movement, following the footsteps of Euro"humanist" vernacularists (jargonists, really, in retrospect) starting with Dante Alighieri and on. Abeghian was merely a continuation and culmination of this cycle in the orthographic realm. Ajarian, much, much to his credit, and this I say without reserve, managed to save the ARmenian language as much as the murderous Soviet regime allowed it. Ajarian did suffer and sacrifice much, as he was physically tortured as well, although not becuase of this issue. Therefore, with all due respect to the comments (not really) above, the f-ing up of the ARmenian language began with naive "revolutionary" un-thought, but was exploited by the nation-murdering Soviet regime. Ajarian made a double compromise and perhaps was the main instrument in saving our language. He proposed at least a legible revision of Abeghian's ridiculous "one sound, one letter" unintelligible orthography. He also on the other front saved the ARmenian alphabet from extinction in the Armenian SSR altogether, as the original Moscowite orders were to scrap the ARmenian characters for the Latin. WIth all due (sincere) respect to Abeghian and his excellent scholarship, particularly his work on Armenian cosmology, he really was less of a help with the orthography issue and opened the floodgates of Bolshevik exploitation of his work and sabotage of our national unity.

Don't you feel so special now? You are politically correct! Congratulations! Truthful, however, is another matter. 1. I am not merely angry, but am absolutely in fumes at Martayan the Traitor and the likes of him who developed the culture that annihilated the majority of our own and still continues to work toward annihilation of Armenian history, living nationality. statehood. Forgive me for being an Armenian who likes his culture to survive. 2. Yes. I can think of 2 alphabets that were invented, organized, developed by a man who did not belong to that culture. The Georgian alphabet and the Albanian/Aghvank alphabet, both developed by Mashtots and entourage! I thought this was common knowledge! 3. The Cyrillian brothers were actually ethnic Armenians, hence the original 36 letter Cyrillic alphabet! Doubt me? Go ask Dr. Lucy der Manuelian at Tufts. 4. Consciousness and loyalty to one's own heritage is more important than just the genetic. Ask Djevdet Bey, an ethnic Armenian whose family had only coverted a couple of generations before 1900, the butcher of Van. He murdered many tens of thousands of Armenians. 5. The Ottomans definitely did know about nationalities. For this reason, they targeted Armenians more so than any other Christian during the genocide period. They also targeted Armenians during taxation, and particularly detailed descriptions of this phenomenon were published by Dr. Lucine Sahakyan on Babert, Artvin and other regions. The 18th century secret memorandum exposed in Armen Ayvazyan's work entitled The Armenian Church at the Crossroads of the Armenian Liberation Movement in the 18th century also shows that the Ottoman Turks were planning to exterminate Armenians and had made that proposal already in that century and prior. I would highly suggest reading this invaluable thesis. 6. This is an addendum and continuation of Sabbatai Tvi's proclamation in 1666, as witnessed by Araqel Davrizhetsi and chronicled in his History of Armenia published in 1692, I believe. Dr. Manvel Zulalian is a great source for this. Sabbatai Tzvi's proclamation is as follows: "We will exterminated the Christians and subject Muslims to severely taxed serfdom." Although this one is not necessarily targeted specifically at Armenians, one cannot but see the genocidal intent, the first "officially" and publically pronounced one in Ottoman history. However, let's also recall that Tala'at is buried in a "Sabbatean" cemetery in an elaborate mausoleum adorned with the six pointed star. Turk and Doenmeh Jew alike, therefore, has expressed genocidal intent, although Davrishtsi also recalls that the orthodox Jewry were against the Sabbataean heresy and were constantly lodging complaints against it to the authorities. The Ottomans themselves were specific about exterminating Armenians. 7. The Ottomans were particularly aware of nationality ESPECIALLY when they would choose the women they would rape, err, "marry" into their harems. They were keenly aware of what damage they were doing to their subject peoples when stealing their "best genetic pool" as well as these barbaric mongrels understood it. Let's face the facts here: They were voracious pedophiles, thieves, and murderers with lots and lots of perfumed pillows. To be continued.

Yervant, That's not the only instance, obviously. There are thousands of such distortions and revisions to eliminate Armenian connections and presence. Take a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armani_(ancient_kingdom) (click on this link, and then click on the other link with the same spelling. Odd it is, but please do it anyhow. It's HTMLs stupid quirks). It obviously keeps on leading toward something away from Armenia, but the original archeologist on site, Paolo Matthiae and later analyst Giovanni Pettinato were certain of it having been Armani in reference to a city to the far north of Ebla, a rival that often was in control of Ebla and surrounding territory and trade routes. But at least this article is focused on Armani and doesn't try to ignore it. Yet, the lesser used "Armi" form, not known to denote the population or the state in question, is the one that is emphasized by the article, while completely forgetting the very Armani title and entry of the article! Look here at the intentional omission of any of the ARmenian sounding kingdoms from Naram-Sin's vitory stele http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naram-Sin_of_Akkad This is the stele where Armani is mentioned in addition to another war memorial by his grandfather, Sargon I. Here read the part where Wayne Horowitz "objects" and rejects the notion that Armani refers to Armenia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Armenia . Horowitz' "work" consists of the repetition, ad nauseam, of his baseless disagreements with the notion by carefully ignoring the original thesis by Giovanni Pettinato mentioned above who believed that Armani possibly was Armenia due to 1) the size of the entity in question, one that was a direct rival and often controller/occupier of Ebla and surrounding cities, and 2) that it was always mentioned as a norther neighbor, not western. Horowitz' pro-Semitic (amoritic) biases are on record, and his work should be discredited for what it is: chauvinistic nonsense. I can imagine the dialog: "There ain't a civilization up there. Whuad are you twuokin abouuut." Look at the narrow focus on the select semitic sources that use the name "Minni" and derivations thereof to supposedly denote Armenians. Minni is a biblical, therefore not reliable, a supposed ethnonym. Supposedly the Assyrians refer as Minnai Urmia and vicinity. Since the specific term Ar-Min was commonly used, Minnai is likely a generic term, more likely, for the ignorant of the landscape up north of invaders who simply used a general description of "mountain folk" or some similar idea. They didn't understand the language and called it a "difficult to pronounce tongue" which demonstrates the Akkadian's lack of knowledge of these people they were dealing with up north of Ebla. That is not all, however, for the Armani name remembered circa 2235 b.c. At some point during the "Wikipedization" process, there were some bolder authors who were playing the Bede game of revising the "actual spelling and pronunciation" of Armani. The proposals of the "misspelling corrections" ranged from Amarni, to Amrani, to Aramni ,and so on. At least at Wiki, the hot item of trying to dismiss Armani and edit it out altogether has failed, so far. Armenians, I tell you, are always being taken for a the revisionist ride, all the while the "experts" in the field sit on their asses and let it happen.

My mistake. The writer's name is Hakob Karapents http://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D5%80%D5%A1%D5%AF%D5%B8%D5%A2_%D4%BF%D5%A1%D6%80%D5%A1%D5%BA%D5%A5%D5%B6%D6%81

Some of his offpsring live here. Stepan Kotanjian's late son, Partev Kotanjian, was on our list, if you remember. Partev was a close friend to Sevak's son here, and his granddaughter was also composing and reciting poems at literary events here in Los Angeles for a while. I had never heard of the kalashnikov testimony. It's worth checking. Unfortunately, my only direct contact with his family passed away last year.

We always omit the fact that his car was hit by apparently a small truck in a field with no obstructions to the view to his car. Fascinating. Naturally and rightly so most think he was murdered by the wonderful Ka-Ge-Be.

Ha, don't remind me of why I can't stand to go to those events also.

Seriously, I don't see why it's confusing the generations. It is in fact clarying the etymology of the Ar-Men name, which most probably literally means "People of Ar." And what is wrong with acknowledging that Ar is the same Ara, the sun god of Armenians? Is there a problem?