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Since day one, even before the taking of Constantinople, they have had the best Pimps in the world supporting their drive. Even the taking of Constantinple was mostly a non-Turkish Ottoman effort contrary to conventional "wisdom." "Luck" is a relative term. On #1, Gallipoli, what is not made evident is the large amount of support in terms of arms, intelligence, and finance Kemalists recieved behind the scenes. I wish I had the source handy, but I can't remember where I read this. One thing is certain is that no one is smart enough to gamble 100% correctly. The only explanation is aid from the outside. Precedence states that Turks and other barbarians always had European sponsors in their campaigns for conquest and later administrative hold of those conquests.

Thank you. Jaco and Mintzer in one place! Nice stuff. My favorite bassist is here http://youtube.com/watch?v=uvZqflzkBL4 -- Jimmy "Flim" Johnson.... best guy, best teacher, best improvisor, best technique, nicest balance, best taste, ... Best bassist period. He's got good stuff with Alan Holdsworth. His Flim and the BB's stuff is good too.

Here is Antero's bullshit collection in the Circassian Genocide. http://www.circassianworld.com/circassiangenocide.html Notice how he uses this event to downplay and discredit Armenians claims and grievances.

Thanks for the heads up. I've known many of the pimped out whores for the Turks, but I was not familair with this one. Here is a much more dangerous scumbag that is going unnoticed so far. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antero_Leitzinger

I've been posting from different socks for the last 2 hours or so, and Michael the Turkish Pigeon keeps on deleting it. This must have hit a nerve. "One addition is the desire for the overwhelming majority of the Armenian leadership in Constantinople to opt for a Constitutionally reformed Empire versus any sort of partition. This is the least emphasized point on the Genocide, where the Armenian parties, the Dashnak and the Hnchak, ratified the conscription of Armenian men into the Ottoman military. These Armenian men were conscripted into the Ottoman army, were quicly put into hard labor battalions, and were murdered and buried in the graves they had dug. That it was genocide is incontestible. Academically it has been proven beyond doubt since the 1950’s that it was in fact genocide, and the all scholars with no political affiliations with the Turkish government or allied lobbies all agree, with no exception, that it was genocide."

Oh, dear Lord this is precious! These boors http://mvdg.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/europ.../#comment-40815 are now actually deleted posts in addition to banning proxies! LOL. It's I am sure all of us having socking the hell out of this site.

They helped us during the Zangezur conflict and fought under Nzhdeh's command. They also lost around 300,000 victims to the genocide and preceding massacres. Now the Anglo-American interests - the Big Daddy Pimps for Turks - have been trying to animate them as an "ethnic enclave," which they are not. The Yezidi have been good about knowing who has been their true protector and big brother. The only true support this culture has seen is in Armenians,a nd much to their credit, they are aware and do acknowledge it.

Oh, I forgot to mention that Adil is not the only source of "censorship." I added a line in the Hittite Language article that said simply, "Linguists Sturtevant, W. Austin, archeologists Jensen, Mordtmann, and so on supported the idea that the Armenians were a native Anatolian people with similar ethnic background as the Hatti, the Luwian, and Lycian, and so on. This was erased not by Adil, but by our own scholars whose names I will not disclose. Check out what linguist William Austin says about Hittite (Lycian as well) and Armenian: [Armenian, like Hittite, Luwian, and Lycian, retains the third laryngeal initially, and has no inherited long vowels, no palatal-velar distinction, and no feminine gender. These and other archaisms lead to the conclusion that Armenian is an Anatolian language and can be compared to more advantage with Lycian and Hittite than with the IE languages proper.] In any case, the Wiki deal and the need to start a team is a given. Yet, when an accredited scholar barges in, they get priority even in cases where you secondary sources (i.e. only other accredited scholars) as counter-evidence. In the case of the Hittite article, I was shot down and my entries deleted without my knowledge or consent. The consensus requirement is a loophole that only so-called accredited academia can jump through. This is yet another form of censorship of theory that counters the mainstream (politicized) views. Any reference that deals with the Armenian connection is entirely refused even though each and every one of the citations was of an accredited scholar from high profile university, each one of whom were non-Armenians.

I went for moral support. It was like attending an old wedding band outing with many volunteer community choir members and the volunteer part time orchestra having a blast, except under the strict supervision of Maestro Abkar the Great. Call it a "supervised and disciplined get together picnic" kind of thing. Many including my siblings like Akbarian from Melkonian fame as a teacher. Melik Mavisakalian did the same old, ancient, ancient, ancient, ancient.... ANCIENT arrangements the same way it's been done since Anton Kochinian's days, perhaps since Xavier Cougat slammed his first marimba. The sound (sound, SPEAKERS, MIXERS, SOUND ENGINEERS, ACCOUSTIC PANELS, STUFF LIKE THAT THERE!) sounded like a high school band concert (i.e. no sound engineering worth the mention). The orchestra was OUT OF BALANCE and OUT OF TUNE. GOOD LORD. The choir is a choir is a choir is a choir. Any of the local choirs would have sufficed, but the moral support for Gyumretsi singers is a must. I agree. Yet, I don't have to agree that it was so grand or that there is no room for improvement. Singing style, classical Europoid Operatico with "lots of Vibrrrrrato" trying to mish mash խեղճ ու կրակ folk tunes. Guys. Guys, Guys! Ah, hell. հայկական է, պատուական է, ինչքան ալ անվորակ ըլլայ, մերն է, ու մերը կմնայ: Բայց չոր հաց ուտելէն, ամրդ ինքը չոր հաց չդարնայ: However, moral support is one thing. Making people's souls MOVE is another. You can go without cultural vitamins for only so long. I see the Georgian ensembles putting on shows that seem like a mix between Altounian (in copcat Armenoid music they wish to call "Georgian") and River dance (with the showmanship and up-to-date arrangements and delivery to match.) I other words, every one else is baking their own bread fresh in the oven, while we are either trying to eat stale bread, or we are forgetting to eat bread and are confusing pakhlava and bubble gum for bread! Gohar = stale bread Sirusho = bubble-gum Artur Grigoryan = cocaine and rogaine infested bubble-gum with mercury based die. (At least the Jerry Curl oily crap is no longer dripping on his concert "Armani" suit.) Armenchik = badly baked Pakhlava where the baker confused salt for the sugar, salt from the dead bones at Deir-ez-zor. We should call him "Ibrahimchik," or "Kuchuk Ibrahim." Ruben Hahverdian = your liver can only take as much as my ears can take you. "Tatiki ankoghine chrchrrum e" blah blah... what happens when you mix the Sovietization trend, Leonard Cohen, and lots and lots and lots of vodka. Artur Meschian = what happens when you mix self-importence, a goat (you can only fit so many vibrations/vibrato cycles in a short note), and a $150 yamaha guitar, albeit supported by good poets. and so on, and so forth... Sorry friends, I love you all, even Armen-kuchuk-lar, but, honestly, a culture has to have its own character and a culture has to have the ability to reinvent itself with fresh ardour and excitement. Any culture that doesn't do that is dead. I speak as a musician who wants the best for Armenians.

There are no Kurds in Armenia. The Yezidi are not accepted into the main Kurdish mold. The Yezidi never have participated in "Kurdish nationalism" neither in the past, present, and nor do they show the potential to do so in the future. The empty verbiage from Ankara was almost official in Washington when a Bush official put Armenia in the terrorist states roster. The Bush administaton were humiliated badly due that error, but this shows how much a desire there is on Turkey's part to attack Armenia.

Yeah, "banned"-ation. ---

The WMDs (Whores of Mass Disinformation) are at it. Sure. Money can always buy a prostitute. The irony is that it is so expensive to lie about a small lobby with a limited budget. Of course the purpose is to convince Armenians, more so than the օտար, that "diasporan Armenians only care about hating Turks, and waste money on such things while leaving Armenians in Armenia to starve." Armenian lobbies are small, volunteer based organizations whose only "weapon of mass persuasion" is the fact of genocide. The Turkish government spends hundreds of millions falsifying history at all levels. The Armenian government has no budget to falsify Turkish history. The YSU has a small faculty of Turkish studies specialists whose only duty is to merley repeat what Turkish archives say, what non-Turkish sources say. Not much cost there. Relaying the truth is a relatively low budget proposition. Creating an elaborate lie, as the Turkish "Mis-storian" has been charged with, is quite an expensive propostion. many Banana Republic woolen sweaters will have to be sold in order to cover for this. Anyway, here's the contact page http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/contact.asp?featureId=10 I think the best way to counteract is to elaborate on the ponts above.

My changes on Wiki have been changed back to the "consensus" many times. Adil Shit-Baguirov is still active along with his government sponsored criminals. We should form a team for this. I don't see anything serious being done yet.

Elizabeth Bauer is not a specialist. She's a nice inspirational author who obviously loved Armenians, but she did not know the topic well enough to make serious comments. There is no such thing as a "Turanian race." Therefore, the Etruscans were not "Turanian" Turan is a semi-mythical name of "kinfolk to the Aryan" and it probably refers to the Tocharians. I've posted this, but here's a good (but still somewhat biased) article on Turan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turan Wiki is mostly "consensus" nonsense, but some of it is full of good reference. As to Kurkjian, my opinion is that he is a fine professor and lecturer, but not a scientific historian. Rawlinson is an old source that worked to take Armenians out of Armenia as well. Greenmantle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenmantle is the epitome of this British Turkophile trend (which connects everything in Central Asia and Asia Minor with the mythical "Turan", which has no scientific basis). Christopher Walker, a really good scholar in the modern Armenian periods, has a critique on this trend entitled Greenmantle's Missing Armenians. I would highly recommend you read it. Herodotus is almost always wrong when it comes to Armenian history. The "migration of Armenians" idea ides out when Armenian like languages, such as Luwian, Hatti (hittite) and so on are found in Armenia and Asia Minor up to the 3rd millennium and easily beyond. Herodotus' outlandish claims about Armenians have been long ago discredited.

There are a lot of points raised, but none talk about the actual reasons for taxation in most economies. The irrational taxation that goes in the 30% to 40% mark on income and all monetary trasaction does nothing clsoe to justify all leigimate government expenses. Teddy Roosevelt with good intentions began a bad trend of government against capitalism: His answer was to mediate as the Executive in labor matters. This then developed into the anti-Trust measures, which were and are full of the convenient loopholes that merely led the Oligarchs to hide the extend of their corporate holdings and control. The one thing that people forget and neglect, due mostly to conditioning against and the carefully cultivated phobia against "conspiracism," is the Money and Banking Trust that still dominates the economies of the globe. It is a perpetuated myth that government ahs control over energy, raw materials processing, food stuffs and processing, and MONETARY sectors of economy. How des this tie in with Armenia and everyone else? The IMF/WB complex belongs to the same private interests that control the US economy through the control of the stategically critical Trusts. The best source, one that surprises me to no end since he was once a mouthpiece for the Money Monopoly, is former Reagan economic advisor Milton Friedman who later recanted and overturned his own theories and objections against direct government control over the so-called M1 supply. Here is represented his older views as if they were still his views before his passing http://economy.typepad.com/the_economy/mon...pply/index.html In the colleges they refuse to teach Friedman's latest alarms against private monopoly on money, which is, as he stated it, a global phenomenon that is the strongest geopolitical force on the planet. In essence, from day one where ter Petrossyan sheepishly accepted devaluation of currency and hard assets, which is against all logic and is illegal according to all legitimate government policy, Armenia gave up her autonomy. True freedom is economic freedom first of all. Now when the IMF and WB give you their loans, they attach them with strings, "Conditionalities" as they call them. One of them is the Guarantee of Payback through taxation. They recommend rates of taxation, not based on the given country's budgetary needs, but on the payback condtionalities. It's a crippling game from the beginning. Putin's mafia decided to bail Armenian out, is my suspicion, but for a steep price as well: Control of most energy producing assets (the Metzamor plant, the Hrazdan plant) and so on. Therefore, when one sees the US budget, according to Friedman, W. Grinder and other legitimate economists, one sees that around 5% taxation of income is enough for the existing social programs and even government subsidies, and no sales taxation is needed. The rest goes back to payin interest to the Fed, which is a private consortium with private stock holdership. Armenia having to tax anything above 5% of the GDP is equally ridiculous.

I've been searching with no luck---

ԱՅՈ՜ They show it often here on Horizon, Morizon. Thanks for the link thought!---it gives me a new lease on this-- OHO! --- Isn't the announcer Miss Europe runner up?? (She should have won, god dammit-- against that flat chinned persian--- watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eXrnIYKRN4 ----> ջաաաաան---

This article reas like an angry IMF note that whines about the lack of taxes collected.

The nuclear support is going to come from their most faithful sponsors, or should I say pimps, the Zionists. The Zionists will not trust the Turks with nuclear arsenal. The possibility is for Turks to gain enough intelligence to outthink the Zionists and botain them independently.

Good LORD, no one understood what Kaveh Farokh is saying here??? Farokh is narrating how the joke of Pan-turkism first began, and he is telling us the entire story of this farce!

This was discussed before. http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=16430

Best source for Pan-Turkism is Kaveh Farokh. See his entire book on Pan-Turkism here http://www.rozanehmagazine.com/NoveDec05/aazariINDEX.HTML Even the claim on the "Turan" name is a joke and is false. Check here for the origins of the name Turan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turan

Is this meant as humor or insult? Forgive me for not understanding, but this is ambiguous.

I disagree. These are generalizations that are unfortunately very true. In the Armenian speaking world there is a different demography when it comes to bias than the English speaking sector. The English speaking Armenian world, at whom this English language post is targeted, is under the impression of a miniscule and insignificant identity created by Uras, Suny, Hewsen, Thompson and company. I put these "Armenologists" in the same roster as Uras due to the identical bias they dissiminate. Some of these people under such influence give themselves license to attack an Armenian who they are trained to think of as a "nationalist." The license to attack is full of venom and disdain. It never fails to elicit this sort of poisonous response, for example, when I state Hittites and Armenians were the same ethnicity according to non-Armenian scholars as well. It would be folly to name any researcher of any caliber of Armenian background. The mere fact of the person having Armenian background is grounds to discredit his scholarship without ever giving it unbiased audience. In the Armenian speaking world, the reverse is true, where you have naturally more general knowledge of Armenian material and direct access to materials, without the hindrance of translators and their selecctive politics. You also have exposure to much more nationalist rhetoric. Yet even there, now that you have a crippled economy and low wages, money from the west seems to buy minds in the Armenian speaking world as well.

A friend just notified me of this entry from a book entitled Sentimental Imperialists--The American Experience in East Asia" by James C. Thomson, Jr., Peter W. Stanley, John Curtis Perry. Page 143: "From the American perspective, however, the Japanese desire was in fact profoundly threatening. The same country that was pre-empting part of Asia territorially was now challenging the United States culturally and economically across the Pacific. Japanese even had their own millenarian mythology to counteract the American talk of a westward course of empire. In the Japanese version, the original seat of civilization had been in Armenia and Persia. From there two streams of culture had flowed out in opposite directions: one culminating in what Uchimura Kanzo called "democratic, aggressive, inductive America" and the other in "imperial, conservative, deductive China." This is quite an interesting twist. I had heard rumors of this and how even former Prime Minister Nakasone was interested and had written an article on the topic of Armenian origins to al civilization.