hayemyes

dear Arpa, i may or may not have mentioned in one of my previous posts (i don't remember right now) that i am totally aware and realize that the soviet era was one of the most prosperous eras if not the most of armenian modern history, and i recognize that high level of economic and cultural development...but then again, i find it sad that we are still sooo clinged to those soviet values in armenia today, even though i understand that is hasnt even been 20 yrs to our independance...but i believe that since the people of armenia voted YES to independance, they should be able to overcome the lingering soviet influence in their "blood"...the clandestinal values and corruption are the result of the living conditions endured by the armenian people in soviet times, not only armenian but every other soviet nation... i cannot tolerate the strong influence of russian in armenian culture, eventhough russia's a neighbor and perhaps a strategically advantageous one, because i am tired of seeing our culture being dependent on others'...most of the composers of that era in armenian history are recognized worldwide as russian composers! and its not wrong to interpret it that way, i mean listen to konstantin orpelyan's compositions and tell me if there's anything armenian in his music except for the lyrics, eventhough half his songs are in russian...but thats another issue they wanted to change the anthem...CHANGE is the word here! and why go back to a soviet anthem? we were saying earlier that don't we have good composers today to create a new anthem and get rid of the current one? if we think we do and if we undertook measures in doing so, why are we abandoning these composers and going back to an anthem that reflects at the same time, 70 years of prosperous economy and culture, but also 70 yrs of struggle for liberty, whether it be freedom of speech, of act, of thought, 70 yrs of spying, thousands of famous armenians sent to the siberian cold, 70 yrs of anti-nationalistic teaching?? why? don't we respect the writers, artists, and political figures that died in the cold in siberia? why did we vote to become independent if we were going to stick to thosevalues and conditions? i find it sad that we decide to overturn something saying it lacks originality and i don't know what, or perhaps maybe because it reflects certain political ideologies (previously discussed) to return to an old composition that reflects, alongside properity, 70 yrs of struggle and corruption

sure and i think we should just do another referendum to recreate a soviet union,,, or even better! just ask russia's permission to merge with their country, and then we can adopt their own anthem, without having to fight over who's music is the best and such...

akh akh and i wonder if we were gona be this much stuck up in soviet times and were gonna become russia's slave, why did we vote yes at the independance referendum more than 10 yrs ago? i hope that "intelligent" amirkhanian dude is happy now, of course! having a soviet anthem with no lyrics is much better than an independance anthem with normal lyrics and music!!! RIGHT!!! sometimes our country politics and events make me soo angry i feel just like becoming a non-armenian! its disgusting

very good point, i forgot to mention but yeah, if they can't manage to gather their act up and sing properly in armenian they shouldnt, if some of them can manage to take care of the lousy accent then im sure most of them can, and besides, they haven;t even tried to capture the essence of the songs they sing... btw im not surprised that tata contributed to that concert, hes managed by sharm the producer of this series, and his music is often influenced by russian music...its a shame hes not criticized as much as some other singers are (im thinkin of aram asatrian, among others...) and finally, no sorry hehe i dono the song they danced to but it seems to me it was an ara gevorgian song no?

actually i rather be allied to EU than russia...

the saddest part is many people applaud and praise that guy...very sad...everytime i think about the political situation in armenia after the independance i feel like havin a heart attack...its not that im against the independance, i don't want to be misinterpreted...but we could have done much better after the independance, its sad we're still russia's pet dog after the collapse of USSR

don't get me started about yerevan-moskva...ive already discussed that in another topic, i just find that whole project useless, disgusting and degrading for the armenian culture, its worse than the cheap rabiz crap out there (as opposed to good rabiz, which DOES exist!) first of all, i dono if its a political project, but am i the only to find it annoying when the lyrics of great old songs are changed to russian (i mean the project is to make the russian artists sing armenian...why do we ALWAYS have to accomodate them somehow?), it was disgusting to hear sayat nova sang in russian with the deblek (!!!) as for sona, i don't undestand the point of her being the armenian artist in the couple singing the song, since she pretends to have this russian or i-don't-know-armenian annoying accent...whats with that? shes not the only one btw who sings like that, alot of new armenian artists(girls and guys) do that and its just annoying, for example they were showin one of elvina makarian's songs (i think its called "baby"?) WHAT WAS THAT? i have to say i happen to be an animal show lover, and the other day i was downstairs in my room when i heard like a sound comin from the upstairs tv... im being honest to say i thought it was a sheep making noise!!! i went up to see and i was extremely surprised to find out it was elvina singing...and i'm not exaggerating...it happened!

it seems to me she sings a song in yerevan transit the new series, the song "yerani te" im not sure if its her but the voice is very similar...

well i don't know the story well, but what i can deduce from what u presented here, he was beaten up mainly for questioning authority, which again reflects the "dictator"-type of ruling that is still in place in armenia and NKR...and yes supposedly at some point there was speculation over wanting to retreat from occupied land in the settlement of the NKR conflict, and ARF was and is VERY against such operations (the recent congress resolutions of the ARF show this very clearly) and denounces it very openly

i just learned today that famous singer Varduhi Vardanyan died today in a car accident in armenia...we offer our condolences to the young and very talented singer Dear Varduhi (Tutush) you belong to the ages now but we preferred when you belonged to us. Today is our chance to say 'thank you' for the way you brightened our lives, even though God granted you but half a life. Her memory will always be bright in our hearts. Her voice will always sound in our ears. Har charmin smile will accompany us all our life. Armenian Music Center conveys its heartfelt, sincere condolences to the relatives, friends of Varduhi Vardanyan. www.armenianmusiccenter.com

i understand her point too and urs, and i somewhat agree, but the renditions done by mr x are just digusting sometimes with the amount of vibrator his voice has, it does become very annoying, its like someone's shaking him while hes singing, and it just ruins the songs, same thing for his adagio of albinoni

hmmm...well i dono if ur post is aimed at me or not, but just to clarify things, i was on ur side honey and was giving out the same opinions more or less that u were, so i don't understand why ur quoting me and throwing out all those harsh words...besides i said from day 1 that its important to respect everyone's opinion...

well THAT is irrelevant, because with ur description of pop, we can be singing oh mcdonald's had a farm in armenian (like some original guy did on his album recently), sing sayat-nova, or even sing a turkish melody with armenian lyrics by an armenian singer and voila, we have armenian pop music...no thats not right...we have to be able to define our own pop just like turks and arabs have their own definitions of style regarding pop... as for ruben hakhverdian, according to ur definition of arm pop, his music is armenian pop, according to me, his music is armenian poetry attached to a melody which is not, by any means, armenian...the singer is, but still its not armenian pop...

well see this shows that we cannot tolerate our favorite singer being put in a "criticized" category, because up till now mosjan kept saying harout is rabiz and everyone went against him and i, but now that he says the same thing except said in a more subtle manner with a bit of extravagance and compliment to that singer, we come to agree...

shoushan petrosian i agree its armenian pop, pure and simple, although she has some jazz stuff that have no armenian element whatsoever, but is still enjoyable, eventhough i wouldnt call it pure armenian christine pepelian is hard to categorize because her songs have some sort of melody that hits some armenian notes, but most of the time its more contemporary rather than armo pop aramo...no comment...except i dnt even consider his music because he cannot sing normally and always has to put in a weird accent that ruins the whole thing

welcome back lol well music is not only described by its melody nor by its lyrics, nor both...its described as a whole and takes into consideration the melody, lyrics, instruments used, voice quality and effects, etc. etc. harout's music most of the time sounds armenian yes, so does aram's or tata's (less but still)...in fact, aram i would say uses the most armenian instruments in his music...maybe cuz he can afford it but thats another story...howeever, like i said before, harout modulates his voice in a way more prolonged manner than the others and that is very oriental, keep in mind harout lived in lebanon for years...for me, he's not a different superstar or legend or anything, i recognize his work in upgrading armenian music back then, but nowadays hes more of a show star than a singer, i mean count how many songs he actually SINGS in his shows...other than that, ur right, that being categorized as rabiz (the music that is) isn't bad at all

definitely not...that is what i would caracterize as armenian pop...modern pop...now let's see how harout would fit along side alla levonian for those who dont like to put him in a rabiz category...

thank you mosjan, u understood what i was trying to say

One of the reasons i admire leyla saribekian is because she privileges quality over anything else...when asked what she thinks about current artists in the armenian music scene, in reference to rabiz, she answered i tolerate all kinds of music, as long as it is done with quality and good work...that's the best answer i could think of...i respect her for that, and for the high quality of her work which reflects alot of attention and devotion

the problem in this discussion, as i see it, is the fact that we all have our favorite singers and we cannot let him or her be in the same category as another one whom we don't like or simply not approve of...we should be able to get past our tastes to judge the music we hear... rabiz can be of good quality or of bad quality, but it's still rabiz...for those who love japanese cars, it's like an american car, it can be of a good quality but it still remains an american car...aram, tata, armenchik and harout provide good quality of rabiz, one that is closer to popular music, whereas tatoul, hayko and the rest don't give us a clear image since many recordings are live or with cheap budget and orchestration...i mean someone who brings out 10 cds in a year is surely cutting down somewhere and its often the quality... for me, if tata and aram are qualified rabiz, then so is harout...i've never understood the immensity of harout's fame because he has only very few original songs and he just sings everyone else's music...see this is another point we can start arguing about, but ppl will say he does it well...it comes to the same thing as me saying harout does rabiz, but he does it well or aram does rabiz and he does it well...its all a matter of quality...

this denial is purely selective because it is very hard for most of us to admit that someone we love is in a bad category...i mean let's admit it, if tata and aram are rabiz, harout is rabiz, u cannot describe him any other way...i explained the reasons that hold my argument, he modulates his voice way more than tata does, and armenian music doesnt have modulation like that...he uses alot of instruments played in a way meant to give an oriental feeling such as the saz, eventhough it is not an armenian instrument it can be played in a clean way, but its not in harout's music, also some of his songs are in fact translations of turkish songs...thats my point

i believe that the most important aspect in the music industry is to be able, in case ur gona sing rabiz, to preserve also the traditional and more armenian music in his "musical personality" and armen aloyan has achieved that incredibly, he collaborates with great composers such as garlen mirzoian, and also sings at weddings...mostly popular songs but sometimes rabiz too...the late gayane danielian was in the same situation too, before she died, she made rabiz albums, but ive seen concerts of her where she sings ashoughagan songs...its all a matter of principles, as long as u stick to ur principles u can still explore something else...its called reaching a higher level of maturity, where singing rabiz won't be compromising ur musical intellect nor principles

for me we are different than western...our music doesn't have that simple 2/4 beat that is used alot in russian and tata music, we're not supposed to be using it...our music doesn't have saz in it, harout p uses it and abuses it more than tatoul lol...its sad, we need to instruct armenian people about what actually is ours, then we can resolve such situations

how would u explain that u consider some of harout's stuff rabiz when u say that u don't differentiate between soft and hardcore rabiz? and some of them do know better, aloyan is a qualified opera singer, its just that the law of supply and demand requires him to sing in another style...i say as long as we appreciate and accept western or russian influence in our music, then we should be accepting the turkish or middle eastern influence, or else THEN we would be hypocrites...

uhhh harout is as rabiz as tata or aram, im talkin about the moderate rabiz stuff, not the hardcore one man band stuff that comes out of armenia once in a while...its interesting cuz i was at this place among some older ppl, and there was a harout song that was being played, one from his newer albums, and this lady close to me said, wowwwwww i thought he was singing in turkish...funny enough, i had said the same thing in my head just a few seconds ago...for sure, one example like this isn't enought o categorize harout as rabiz, but for me he is, especially since he uses alot of voice modulation in his songs, also his music sounds turkish sometimes too, if you listen to that cd with the songs leran lanjin and sasun, you'll be surprised...also if u watch harout on request on horizon tv...and he has a few turkish translated songs, such as hye axchik im annman... and yes, it is funny that you would classify 90% of armenians in a masochist category...i just find it ridiculous that ppl give qualities or describe individuals based on their musical taste...that's kind of primitive...i mean if i'm a well-trained doctor, let's say, or lawyer, am loved by alot of ppl in the community, i try to help everyone (i'm using an extreme example of course), but i listen to rabiz music, that means i'm a trashy person? and don't tell me that a doctor or lawyer won't listen to such music, i have seen otherwise...it's liek saying all metal listeners are satanists...