Sip

oh yah ... if it has a grocery store in it, it's a super walmart.

The reason I didn't reply to this thread was I think because I was watching that video for 2 weeks straight

Well there ya have it. I had it all wrong

If they are, WATCH OUT! Once the first one shows up, they start to multiply like crazy. It's really like exponential growth with the number of walmarts around And wait till you see a Super Walmart! Wow now that's a sight to see inside.

You said I should ignore posts I don't agree with, and participate only in ones that I like. I said NO. I will not do that. Thanks for the suggestion.

And as far as "freedom of religion" and laws enacted by congress, go and start a religion in which you screw chickens for breakfast and run red lights on the way to church. You'll see how quickly "freedom of religion" will take a back seat to common sense and laws of society. Yah and I know I could have phrased it better. But what's the fun in that?

Feel free to do it. I have never complained of redicule. That is entirely the point. You are free to think anything you want of me. And of course I will always get to decide how I feel about a certain subject. What kind of point is that? I think you are confusing moderating duties with the discussions we have had here. As I said before, you would only have a case if I had abused my moderating powers to supress anyone's ideas (if they were expressed within the code of conduct of the forum). But as things stand, you have no case.

Sasun you just don't get it. How many times do I have to repeat this? You are absolutely free to do whatever the hell you want. You can have any religion you want. You can even go jump off a building as far as I am concerned. No one is enacting any laws here or preventing anyone from posting about any religion. So stop the whining. Just don't expect me to jump around and cheer you or anyone else on with their religion. If my redicule bothers you, then ask yourself why that might be, not me. This is not about freedom of religion or enacting laws against it. This is about basic civil behavior. Freedom of expression stops at crap. We should NOT tolerate spam, crap, and the like here. That is what I am saying. And much like any other topic, there are religious views that are crap. Pure and simple. Not all of them, but definitely some. You would have a case if I had banned anyone for religious views or deleted any posts. I have not. So spare me this first ammendment bull.

I was watching a discovery channel special on big storms ... and according to Walmart, their #1 sale before a storm is beer. Their #1 sale after a storm is pop tarts! I know it's not very related to the above but I think overall, Walmart is an amazing phenomenon developing in the US

Anahid, why do you think this discussion revolves around you?

That is a dangerous wording because it will sound like the forum is singling out religion and is "anti religion". Actually, the spirit of the discussion here is that why should religion be any exception to common sense and intelligent discussions? Why is it expected that all religious views be tolerated, even if they make grand, unsubstantiable claims and rely mainly on hearsay to push their stance? The topic of religion, just like any other topic (be in Genocide, jews, science, culture, politics, business, economics, philosophy, language, history, roots, etc) should be subject to the same rules of conduct. But on the substance of the matter, I definitely do agree with you Kakachik.

My definition of tolerance is pretty much in-line with the dictionary definition: Tolerance: acceptance of different views: the acceptance of the differing views of other people, for example, in religious or political matters, and fairness toward the people who hold these different views However, tolerance of intolerant views is not covered in this definition. That's where I draw the line. You have continuously made an argument that that is intolerant. But we have to draw the line somewhere. Obviously we have refused to tolerate genocide denial. We also have not been tolerant of those that continuously post hateful and disrespectful material. I don't make any distinction with religion. Same rules apply. If you are tolerant of others, you will be tolerated ... simple as that.

That's why we always end up going in loops in these multi-page threads that evolve.

This thread is meant as a discussion regarding the issues of respect, tolerance of ideas, and how our forum as a whole operates. To begin the discussion, first we must agree on a set of ground rules: 1. Not every idea is equally valid. This applies even to religion. 2. Tolerance for the sake of tolerance is not a valid argument for anything. 3. Respect must be earned. It is not a right. 4. Personal insults accomplish nothing. Now to expand on this: 1. I highly doubt anyone around here will argue about the first part. That is, not everything is valid. We all know there is a lot of garbage that is sometimes attempted to be pumped into this forum. Noteworthy examples are those of genocide denial, the never ending jew-bashing as the "end goal", and many other more subtle issues. The major concerns that have arisen recently deals with "religion". Religion is no exception. Much like ANY other topic, garbage is garbage. Here, one must make a distinction between personal beliefs and spirituality, vs. religious dogma and cultist attitudes. I personally will not tolerate all ideas, just because they are disguised as religion: especially if the froum is used as a preaching grounds for these ideas. 2. I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion. However, some opinions will be valid, others will be invalid. The notion of supressing expression against invalid ideas is the worst that can be expected of any forum. It will not only create an atmosphere condusive to "garbage collection", it will also create an artificial sense of approval for those ideas. So I am personally highly against this kind of tolerance. More so, I am fundamentally against tolerance of any idea, which inherently is intolerant of other valid view points! Case in point: Christians that show up to denounce everyone else. If you are a religious fanatic that thinks no other view point but your own is valid when this subject is concerned, then you are not welcome here as far as I am concerned. However, if you would like to maintain your position while acknowledging that others who don't necessarily share your views might be right, then by all means, feel free to stick around and participate. 3. Regarding respect: Respect is not a right. Anyone who posts any idea, must be willing to defend it to earn respect. Simply resorting to childish name calling, referring to other base-less sources, and claiming that the knowledge is arrived through some magical personal visions DO NOT earn automatic respect. So don't be surprised if you don't get far with these tactics. Case in point: If someone shows up claiming the Armenian genocide did not happen and he was told so through a vision upon meditating hours and hours, then that person must be willing to accept the redicule and dismissal that will follow. Just like he is entitled to have the opinion that he holds, everyone else is entitled to hold their own opinion of the subject ... 4. And last but not least, personal insults accomplish nothing. I am not saying I am not guilty of this because I am. HOWEVER, anyone who makes any grand claims, MUST be able to stand the heat that will follow. This whole notion of bitching and crying and demanding that everyone be nice and respectful only goes both ways. If you are reasonable and tolerant in your views, then expect the same from others. Case in point: If you show up saying you have a certain religion and all those who don't follow it are essentially idiots or haven't seen the light that you have, then be VERY ready to get fired back on. Ok I'm off the box, and the floor is open!

NO. I refuse to compromise the integrity of this forum. That's it. I am making a real thread about this.

Similarly, telling someone like me to accept ANY garbage as "valid", redicules my intelligence. So where are we going with this?

I know this will be an unpopular statement and will offend many, but never the less, I definitely do believe it. The only good thing about religion is that it can be used to keeps the idiot masses in check. Unfortunately, those who do the "keeping" often are extremely misguided themselves ... institutionalization of religion has probably been the worst aspect of humanity left over from the "darker ages".

Sasun, but before you drag me down this path again, he has also said: So if you are trying to say the "kind" of God doesn't makes a difference to him, then FINE. But that is not the issue. He is saying if someone knows the God, and rejects him (and we ALL know about the Christian God unfortunately so the part about "personal knowledge" is irrelevant), then the person will go to Hell. The rest is meaningless hand waving and flowery language to hide the exact detail of what is being said.

God is capitalized. There is noooooooo way either of you can wheasel out of this. It is there. Plain and simple. You can try to twist it around with your vague phrasing but it is there and there is no denying it. And Sasun, do you REALLY believe sSebB doesn't mean the Christian God? I have given you the benefit of the doubt because even though I am sure you are very strict in your thinking, you are civil enough to keep your language vague and subject to fuzzy interpretations ... that is fine. It is your defense mechanism. But please don't try to go down the same path sSebB has.

I NEVER said that. Like I've said before, on judgement day, you will be judged according to your personal knowledge of God. sSebB, I think even Sasun will agree now that I am perfectly justified to tell you, you are absolutely full of . Here is a direct quote from you. Read the Budah thread again if you don't believe me: http://s93725736.onlinehome.us/hf/seb_owned.jpg

Yup ... it's like some sort of 1-st grade he did it first no he did it first no he did it first. ... and it all goes in a loop after a while. But I am too immature to stop it and will play this game till the cows come home. The "enlightened" liberal tolerant kinds have taken a back seat to the preachy religious loud-mouths faaaaar too long. NO more! I can be just as preachy and closed minded as the religious. And it's interesting to watch them cringe as they get a taste of their own medicine sometimes What's sad is that a lot of religious people have never encountered someone that has looked them straight in eye and said: "HEY! Maybe you are full of it. Have you ever considered that possibility?" ... amazingly enough, many haven't ... and won't.

They might have been referring to me, before I went to the buffet today.

Sasun, you also should take what you said and apply to yourself. Why are you so threatened when someone redicules a religion? As I've said before and I'll repeat again, not all ideas are equally worthwhile. I chose which ones I consider as valid and which ones I consider worthless. And this being a puglic forum, I will feel free to express as such. SeBb's personal beliefs do not affect me in any way obviously. So should my personal thoughts about him. If I think he is very young, foolish, and completely brainwashed by an institutionalized cult, that is PERFECTLY within my capacity as a forum member. I don't see why that should tick you off so much if you expect the same from us to go on and be "tolerant" of any sort of crap (from my perspective) that might be pumped into the forum.

SASUN, stop this nonsense. Sit down and have a chat with sSebB for example. One of the first things I got him to say is that all those who don't believe in the Christian God will go to Hell. PLEASE pay attention to all the discussions before jumping on Arpa. His frustrations, a lot like mine, stem from countless posts by the supposedly "religious" on how the rest of us are unenlightened idiots and it's NOT the other way around.

Remember how your parents told you to respect your elders?