Sip

What is so stupid about this whole thing is that it took us 10 posts to finally acknowledge we both agree the old superstitious lady is probably wrong here.

Well, at least you definitley won't go around blowing anything up

Shnorhavor

I don't think I would call it an illness. It's more like a form of mental laziness in some cases. In other cases, it stems from fears, superstitions, or just up-bringing. A case in point is a circus elephant. When they are very young, they are tied with chains to a pole. They can't break the chain. As they get older, they develop the strength to break the chain but almost never do! They just stand around not even realizing the chain holding them to the pole is more of a product of their brain and up-bringing rather than an actual hinderance from wondering away from the pole.

Actually, I think the difference is that I am very disciplined in my thinking. I present the set of assumptions which may or may not be wrong. Then based on those assumptions I make certain statements. When I say something like the woman's use of dolls to influence statistical outcome of gambling is stupid, there is no maybe or ifs or but's about it. That is a YES/NO statement. IF we use statistical methods to evaluate the effectiveness of a technique, then the woman's method is wrong. There is also maybe a chance that the molecules in your body will line up such that you can walk through a wall. But instead of saying (oh yes maybe sometime I don't know complex stuff), I say NO, you can't walk through walls. Of course there are yes/no and clear cut answers! Not everything is like that and you don't have to insist to complicate everything. But in order to do so, one needs to be disciplined in his or her thinking and realize what is an assumption, what is a conclusion, and which conclusion is based on which assumption.

Exactly. And yes, I also agree with you that supersitious behavior of that lady is WRONG (even though you didn't say it, you did imply it finally). It's almost like trying to pull teeth to get you to make a firm statement sometimes Not everything is fuzzy ya know.

You are trying so hard to circumvent the question! Do you think she is wrong in her thinking?

Do you really thing shaking a doll can impact her winnings? If so, then I WILL call you kookoo.

But do you think she is kookoo?

No I mean why is it that here, we agree to rely on observable evidence to decide whether the old woman's system of thought with respect to ringing a bell or shaking a doll to influence gambling outcomes is valid? If the woman claims we just don't have the ability to comprehend her amazing insights into gamling, is it safe to call her kookoo?

Actually, there is definitely a statistical significance to my gambling when those waitresses are around. My losses almost double.

Very interesting that we agree here ... but not certain other topics. What changed here?

By the way, I am not necessarily wanting to focus on premonitions. We had this discussion in another thread where some maintained they have had premonitions of certain events ... a black cat walking by and a family member dying, seeing a dream that came true the next day, etc. Here, I my focus is more on "standardized" systems of thought that have no basis other than in a person's head (even though the person may think very differently). I am talking more specifically about "gambling strategies" that are not mathematically sound, supserstitious actions such as not leaving the house if you only sneezed once, and not changing your shirt between certain soccer games, etc.

The issue of the mind just somehow "knowing something" has been raised under many contexts in this forum. In the religious discussions, it often results in heated debates as some maintain that the mind can sometimes see things that the senses simply cannot verify and others (like me) who insist that a lot of that is just imagination and nothing more. Before going on here, I want to say that I do believe the mind can arrive at knowledge without necessarily requring first hand (i.e. through the physical senses) experience. We can theorize, extrapolate, create, imagine, design, engineer, and do many great things. But at the same time, the imaginative parts of the brain at times, tend to create what I call "false knowledge". No where is this more preveland than watching some gamblers in action: ... At the bingo parlor, the old ladies bring all sorts of stuffed animals, charms, voodoo dolls, bells, and scream chants in between the number calls. ... At the roulette table, some guy is closely keeping an eye on the sign above that has the list of the numbers that have already come up, trying to figure out what will come next. ... At the slots, a young lady is warming up her machine that is about to pay up ... ... At the craps table, the shooter is blowing on his dice, and whenever a 5-3 comes up, he bets a ton of money on the snake eyes. Some of them will spend a long time explaining you their strategy for winning. They have it all figured out ... they KNOW something the rest don't know. What do you tell them? I rarely have the heart to tell them how misguided they are if they believe ringing a bell after a bingo call or looking at the sign above the roulette table is going to help them make any changes in their future. But at the same time, is it correct to just let things be and let them get happy with their own superstitions? And yah, a lot of them do somehow find comfort in their superstitions which makes the whole thing even more absurd. Any thoughts? Do you have any such superstitions? It doesn't have to be just while gambling ...

Sasun is in world cup?

i.e. earned or disearned.

I predicted the future so maybe I am God! Edit: And this was the stupid joke part to fulfill my prophecy.

I agree with the second part. Your first part doesn't match the second part ... but I agree that the respect metric can increae or decrease from the starting default value. The absolute value of the default value is irrelevant since we compare respect levels. But ya, in the same way that respect can be earned, it can be disearned (or more disrespect added).

emmmmmmm ... how do you mean? I often watch TBN (Trinity Boradcasting Network) because it is funnier than comedy central. So when it comes to televangelists, I find them quite amuzing (and at the same time, very distrubing). When a jehova's witness or a mormon shows up at my door, I have some fun with them usually. I'll pretend to be very interested in what they say, then slowly get freakier and freakier with them until they get offended and leave. It takes some of them a while to realize I'm playing with them. I have been to the house of a friend a number of times whose family insists on praying before food. I respect that and hold hands with them while they do their speil and then eat. When I go to a church for a certain function, I just stand or sit around quietly while people do their wheelings and dealings with the Lord. I do not make a scene or do any disrespectful things because no one forced me to go to that place. I am there often for a wedding so that's why I behave. But deep inside, I do find the whole ordeal quite rediculous. I especially enjoy the "singing" by the der ders Otherwise, I don't treat them any different than I would anyone else. If I go to a fast food place, and the guy taking my order is a Christian, I talk to him the same as I would talk to a jew or muslim. Ok well, to the mexicans, I talk slower because it is VERY important they don't miss the "no tomatos" part. Unfortunately, they often screw that up. So I guess it depends on the context.

Yah but now I have opened up the door for Sasun to once again show up and remind me how I am only using my physical senses and not opening my other eyes and senses in my head. Then I would again remind him that that is imagination and the power of human creativity and not really any better than my touchy feely method of arriving at the conclusion that the pickle jar is God. Then he would remind me that there are those who can experience God and that I should respect them. Then I would again make some sort of stupid joke to piss him off. And ...

The pickle jar brings me comfort too. I like pickles.

I answered sSebBs question to the best of my ability. My prayers to a pickle jar get answered in the same frequency as my prayers to God. For all I know, the pickle jar may have created the entire universe and myself. I have no way of knowing for sure. So what makes the jar different than God? They are both the same to me. I prefer the pickle jar because at least I can touch and feel it and get the sense that it is actually there and I am not praying to emptiness. Yah I'd say I know this God as well as anyone in my position could.

Yes I do know Him. My personal relationship with Him is pretty much the same as my personal relationship with a pickle jar. Except the pickle jar is more real to me.

Yervant, you make a lot of sense

My definition ... when it comes to religion ... Preaching: If you blah blah blah, then you blah blah. Not preaching: I believe if I blah blah blah, then I blah blah.