Arturian

... [ January 19, 2002: Message edited by: ARTURian ]

Nvard, i know what you mean... and it gets worse year in year out. About girls in Russia, they might BTW So far i can see only one Armenian girl on this forum which can be called an Armenian. Others are rather concerned with their feminist issues. Hasmiek, Thooth... it is a public forum, and the issue you are tackling is too personal. That's it. About biggest abortion and staff like that. Did you get that stats from Azeri source? : ) Bigger than in the US ? : )) Talking about abortion, personally think it is a crime and those who commit it should be punished badly. Regards, Artur

I don't know where to start : ) nobody seems to be on my side... well that really shows how few armenians here... defending american mentality... anyways... Nellie, i am not naive, and i do know how armenian girl like. And know even more that probably eveyone here. I've travelled many places... greece, turkey, russia, england, france etc. And you are right that many girls do not deserve to be called Armenians. But never the less, i show the same respect to all of them, unless they disgrace our nation, then i start just ignoring. About Armenia, i do believe there are 80% girls who are pure in mind and in the life and in soul. One of my brother's married a Yerevani girl, and when i say she is probably one of the most traditional girls, it won't be exagiration. Another brother (may sound carzy), have stolen a girl from nearby town as her parents rejected him, and that one is the same. So, it is not that bad. At the end of the day, if all armenian girls would be like europeans... then i'd rather stay unmarried. But for me, it is all settled. my grandmother is taking care of it... and for now there are a few nomenies : )) lol For "Anshnork". You can't consider it as you can't consider a women fighting for the land. Simple as that. If a man stands lower and lives for the sallary of his wife, he can't be called a man! Thoth, go and cure yourselft... I don't want to talk about sex, as there are many girls here. Learn manners. If you want we can discuss the subject in private though... just let me know... Regards, Artur

Nellie, the percentage comes from my understanding of the society. Armenian women in generally are loyal to their husbands. If you take Yerevan, i believe about lets say 50-60% of girls do match my criteria. Then about smaller cities, they are more traditional i guess, which makes about 95% of girls being like that. Thus the final percentage would have to be around 70-80%. That is about maths. About Armenia, we have a house there and most of my relatives live there. My father's business though is fully in Kazakhstan. But i never regarded Kazakhstan being my second home. We are all guests everywhere except our land. I couldn't go home for this christmas, due to studyings. But i was there for a period of two weeks by the end of the august just to see my relatives and my great grandmother and grandmother (yes i do have both . Nomatter how, every year i promised to my grandmother that i would come... so she can cook some nice "Gharit" for me : )) Nellie, it is good to hear about your morals. Also about the age... i am 20, but i don't understand what you are trying to say. Thoth, i will start ignoring your posts. Your major issue is sexual fantacies and satisfaction. It is even sick to discuss things like that. Get a prostitute then if you want to have to the full! Surelly they are the best in that "business". I am not going to discuss this sick topic with all respect to all the girls here. Regards, Artur

Nellie, about wise, logical. I was referring to the thing you said about kids respecting parents and parents living for kids. Every wise person would want his kids respect their parents. About rare to find. Oh God, should I just go and hang myself. Because i can't picture myself with a western girl with feminist ideas and absession of sexual life before marriage. And the type of girls i do picture myself, i believe there are 80% of girls like that in Armenia. And surely all my sisters are like that. And a brother can be happy when his sister is safe, and he knows that she won't do anything stupid. Wereas girls in the western countries ... you all know what they do... starting from driking, ending with taking drugs... ok, whatever, who cares... About agreeing with Azat, it gives you a bad image as you are an armenian girl. MosJan what is your point??? Where was I? I was in school I was 10 years old. But WHERE WERE YOU??!! In sunny LA streets chasing the girls... My brother went to Artsakh, but was injoured and From the God's will mircally survived. One story... one day, when i was about 12, my father was sitting with elders in the room, and they were talking and i have intervened the dialog and after that my father said what i did was very wrong and was really sad. I went to my room and started packing my clothes. My father went upstairs and asked: where are you going? I told him: To fight for my country!!! ))) His reaction was... Ahhh, that's my boy : )))) Funny story... My appreciation goes to the same adress as you have pointed. For all our girls!

Then that is why man takes care of the family from outside and woman in the house. It is a tradition as you said, and a man cannot be called a man if he is sitting at home while his wife is earning money. The same way as woman cannot defend the country with man sitting and waiting for war to finish. And the same way, a man should be at the top of hierarchy. That is in the matter of the one having the last word. There are fundumental differences which God put between man and woman. BTW we won that war because of the kind of wives we have. Loyal wife = brave fighter. P.S. And also, have you tried to read Bible? It is nicely explained everything i am talking here about. Hierachy, respect and staff like that [ January 13, 2002: Message edited by: ARTURian ]

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double post... something wrong with this forum... Garo check the code, it shows 500 error in ultimatebb.cgi. [ January 13, 2002: Message edited by: ARTURian ]

I am not a jew, but i will counter ask a question for "Anshnork". Why didn't we send women to the first lines in Artsax conflict to liberate our lands? Or why don't we do that now? If you answer this, i will answer your question. Azat: A family that stays together even if they are not happy just for the kids is not a better off family, or healthier family, it is quiet the opposite. Artur: The family is a tie between man and a woman with kids between them. when two parents separate you can't call it a family. If parents have problems then kids shouldn't see these problems, as it gives a bad image for them about their parents, and emotionally and psycologically distorbs them. In generally kids want to see their parents "love" each other and live in peace. In order not to have these kind of problems which might lead to a divorce there should be a strict structure in the family, with man on the top, so there aren't many arguments over some silly issues. About successful family. Mutual respect from husband and wife. Respect from man should be the most high to his woman (after the respect to parents of course) and he should sacrifice himseld in all matters for his wife and his kids, so they have the happiest life. Wereas woman, should commit herself to her husband, showing respect by that and take care of the kids in the aspect of normal day life. Man takes care of the financial side, woman of more daily life of kids. From both of this there will be the most successful family. That is my opinion. With both parents working and at the same time taking care of house and kids, i think it won't work more efficient. Myself, i don't even know how to cook spaghetti, recently just learned how to make fried eggs. So i think mother can take of that aspect better than me as i am useless in cooking. About control. I wouldn't use that word. I mean i wouldn't want to -control- my wife. I will take into account her opinion, and we will try to come to decision together. In the case of her driving, there will be clear NO, as i would too care of her and wouldn't want her to get hurt or to have some other problems. And that would show my love and care. And nothing else. If I would allow her driving, then that means 1. I don't care about her health, 2. I don;t care about the future of my kids, as mothers spend more time with kids wereas men are at work and it would be dificult for a single men to raise them. Woman on the other hand should understand that this kind of decision is good for her and the family as a whole. Azat, about respect. I think you should respect Armenian men, because they are Armenian men and you are Armenian girl. Otherwise it would be opposite from both sides. Verchapes mi azg enk. Regards, Artur

OK, first for nellie. I think a wise person would like to have that kind of family i was describing. What i am saying is that in the family there should be some kind of hierarchy between members. With man on the top. Stop! This doesn't mean man should disrespect his wife and act as she is a slave. In opposite, when it comes to making a decision, then a husband should respect the word of his wife and make she that his decision does not dissapoint her. That is called mutual respect. Don't get me wrong, nellie jan, i am not a hypocrite, and i don't say that men some what superior than women or women are less educated and so on. It is about structure and order in the family. If say, that i am saying it because i am man, then you would be wrong. I was a kid and i had elder brothers and parents. And it was the same kind of respect. And I never argued with my father and/or mother, ot any of elders including brothers aunts and uncles. About education, I personally think armenian women are more educated than those from the western society. You can disagree, it is just my opinion. BTW, did you know that Armenia was the most educated state in the soviet Union by 89, with 99% educated men, and 98% educated women. Anyways, i think if in the family it is unnesesarry for a woman to work, then there is not much point for that, as both parents should think what is the best for the kids and the family as a whole. Sip, you should be happy that you live in such advanced country as the US. And if you think it is hard to live there, it is because you haven't experience the life what i've been talking about. Anshnork (are you proud of your nickname ? ) read my first paragraph. And read my posts carefully, as I've never said that men are some way supperior. Thoth, i've never said that you are wrong, and i've never accused your lifestyle of being wrong. Do not accuse me of such things that i've never said. Azat, do you know what word esh means??? I would show respect to an armenian girl with ignoring that. But when you discuss issues with an armenian men show respect, and show that can be respected. About 50%. Now, with your own words you have proved that armenian families are more healthier than american families as they live for kids rather than sexual fantasies. The happiness of the parents is the happiniess of the kids. If your kids are happy, then you'll be happy. About you taking 50% of divorce, i think it is unwise of you to say that. Question: what is successful family for you? About driving... might be... i am not saying anything. Personally i even recon that women even more carefull at driving cars than men. Thus makes them better drivers. But the point here if a husband does not allow her wife to drive, this means he cares of her and shows the highest respect for her. Regards, Artur

Nellie, don't get me wrong, but the work mothers as housewives do should be more than appreciated. You are right, it is difficult and it is really endless, but life is full of sacrfices for the sake of kids. And both parents, mother and father should sacrafice themselves. About appreciation, in opposite kids will appreciate their work the most when they are grown. Myself, i know my mother just lived for two of us and sacraficied her whole life for us. And i more than appreciate that, there aren't words can express the appreciation. About man#s word being last. We have discussed 200 hundred times this issue. And at the bottom line, my point is that in the family, man should be the host. The decision should obviously come from talking, weighting etc. But the last word should be behind man. Otherwise there will be disorder in family and too many arguement over some silly issues. Woman should show respect by submitting herself to her husband, whereas man should carefully listen to his wife and make sure the desicion does not dissapoint her. In my family, i don't remember my father and mother arguing, and there were no problems (according to what i have seen). Nellie, don't get me wrong, husband should respect his wife in full as nobody in this world (after parents of course), and he should listen to her, and they should surely find a compromise. But the life is not that easy and sometimes there can be a conflict. And this is a major reason why there are so many divorces in american families. Then, if a man raises his hand over his wife, he cannot be called a man. If a man raises his voice at his wife, again cannot be called a man. In this case, i might agree that the divorce might be the last thing, but still it is the last and probably the only reason that they come to this decision. Not all people perfect and it surely happens. And women, who take this and sacrifice themselves for the sake of kids, will gain the highest appreciation from kids when they are grown. I have known one case like that. Sip, if you would live in Armenia you wouldn't say it. Do you think it is easy to earn money? Ambitions, dreams, motivations are for americans. For us is sacrficing, doing something, trying to earn something so you family has something to eat. And here women's duty can be seen more relaxed and logically the one. About you story, i wish the best to your parents and may God give them good sound health and long life! They did sacrifice themselves for the sake of you, and they should be more than appreciated. God bless them! Please read my posts carefully, as i say if it is unnecessary, it would be better for wife to stay at home rather than work. It is pure business, and in business term it is correct. I don't know if what you studied, but I read it couple of years ago in People and Organisations coursebook, and they were actually giving this example of a family talking about matters of business. Regards, Artur

Nellie, don't get me wrong, but the work mothers as housewives do should be more than appreciated. You are right, it is difficult and it is really endless, but life is full of sacrfices for the sake of kids. And both parents, mother and father should sacrafice themselves. About appreciation, in opposite kids will appreciate their work the most when they are grown. Myself, i know my mother just lived for two of us and sacraficied her whole life for us. And i more than appreciate that, there aren't words can express the appreciation. About man#s word being last. We have discussed 200 hundred times this issue. And at the bottom line, my point is that in the family, man should be the host. The decision should obviously come from talking, weighting etc. But the last word should be behind man. Otherwise there will be disorder in family and too many arguement over some silly issues. Woman should show respect by submitting herself to her husband, whereas man should carefully listen to his wife and make sure the desicion does not dissapoint her. In my family, i don't remember my father and mother arguing, and there were no problems (according to what i have seen). Nellie, don't get me wrong, husband should respect his wife in full as nobody in this world (after parents of course), and he should listen to her, and they should surely find a compromise. But the life is not that easy and sometimes there can be a conflict. And this is a major reason why there are so many divorces in american families. Then, if a man raises his hand over his wife, he cannot be called a man. If a man raises his voice at his wife, again cannot be called a man. In this case, i might agree that the divorce might be the last thing, but still it is the last and probably the only reason that they come to this decision. Not all people perfect and it surely happens. And women, who take this and sacrifice themselves for the sake of kids, will gain the highest appreciation from kids when they are grown. I have known one case like that. Sip, if you would live in Armenia you wouldn't say it. Do you think it is easy to earn money? Ambitions, dreams, motivations are for americans. For us is sacrficing, doing something, trying to earn something so you family has something to eat. And here women's duty can be seen more relaxed and logically the one. About you story, i wish the best to your parents and may God give them good sound health and long life! They did sacrifice themselves for the sake of you, and they should be more than appreciated. God bless them! Please read my posts carefully, as i say if it is unnecessary, it would be better for wife to stay at home rather than work. It is pure business, and in business term it is correct. I don't know if what you studied, but I read it couple of years ago in People and Organisations coursebook, and they were actually giving this example of a family talking about matters of business. Regards, Artur

Sorry, nellie, but if a woman thinks that way as you explain, then i would say she has no logic! 2 options for you: 1. You relax, take care of the kids, enjoy yourself, have chat with friends etc. etc. 2. You work hard, to make some money, buy doing that, having no time to take care of the kids, prepare food for the family, wash clothes for your kids etc. Which one would you choose? Second? God, if i was a woman, I would definetly go for the first one As it is more relaxed and comfortable without any problems way of living. About wife being at work while kids are at school. When kids come from school, there should be food on the table. And not the one which you buy, put in the microwave and after 10 minutes it is ready, but propper cooked, healthy food. So, 1 - kids should have good lunch. 2, after school there should be someone to help them preparing their homework. 3, after doing homework, when father comes from work, there again should be something on the table. 4. The kids' clothes and condition should be perfect. And so on. Will there be time to do all these things if a woman works? I don't think so. And if she would find some time, it won't be benificial. About dependancy. Woman should have her opinion and atittude towards some issues. But the last word should be man's word. And it would show only respect, and would lead to the safe and long lasting family. If not, continuous arguing, disagreement etc. would prevent in the family. Which will probably lead to the divorce. About disrespect. On what grounds do you say that armenian men disrespect their wives? In opposite, the highest respect is shown to the wives. Men work for the sake of his family, make sure they have everything and satisfied with life. About divorce... Do you think that divorce is an option when you have kids? When there is a kid between a man and a woman, divorce can not be even mentioned. The fact is in Armenia the number of families divorced is way to low in comparison to western, where parents first think of themselves and only then about kids. Sip, it probably won't change. The divorce rate will still high untill they think of kids first. Parents should sacrafice themselves in the sake of their kids as nothing in life is more important than kids, don't you think so? Regards, Artur

nellie, nice one. the first armenian ever girl to call herself a feminist. no comments. About rights. Women should have all the rights men have. Don't get me wrong i don't question it. But family matter is somewhat different. In the family there is a husband. And one of woman's duty is to be loyal to husband. Wereas men's duty is to take care of his wife. There is nothing wrong with that as it is the most optimal way. It is a mutual respect. MosJan, i think we've had cars for somewhat already 80 years, and there were probably no women driving lets say 20 years ago. But it is not the point here. The point is the protaction of the family, and careness about wife and kids. BTW, you need to work on you sence of humor. That was a joke by russian humourist Mikhail Zadornov, i don't know if you know him... About changes, i would disagree... my family is very much traditional and i see it way higher than those from western countries. As kids we had everything and raised in very much peaceful and "organised" family with no conflics and problems. I've never seen my father and mother arguing and so on. Very much the most perfect family you can get... Regards, Artur P.S. nellie, my first part had no connection with women driving, it was about women working as you wrote in the previous post.

quote:Originally posted by MosJan: dzpo es fazert qtsir eli ??? Tson du es! Martik ira dzever unin. Durt chi ga krnas jnjes posts. nellie, a good man in the family cares about his children and his wife. When kids are young there should be someone who would take very good care of the kids. A good mother is the one who first thinks of her kids, but not the one who is abssesed with feminism, and whose target is to prove how women are equal to men by getting a good job when it is unnecessary for the family. Take a man and a woman, and two should become one. Man - takes care of the business (external), woman- of the family (internal). The concept of the separation of the business in order to achieve the main goal. The main goal is healthy, educated kids. As for Alla's husband, if it is that necessary, i might understand his decision (yes i do ), but i can't believe that he can't find 15 minutes in the morning to take his kids to the school. Regards, Artur

quote:Originally posted by Azat: Oh boy!!!! I guess Artur will not get on the road anymore as more women drive. loool Latest joke: a woman behind the weel, is like a monkey with a bomb.

There is a Greater Caucasus and a Lesser Caucasus. The Greater Caucasus devides North Caucasian republics from South Caucasian republic (Transcaucasia)... Armenia is Covered by the Lesser Caucasus... and also Artsax... I am not sure that the Lesser Caucasus touches eastern turkey... i think it is only Armenian Highland you have there...

It seems like the issue about the pork is just about health. Well, my great great randmother always cookes pork and ate, and she lived untill 105. Times change... BTW my great grandmother is still alive, she just turned 80. She got married when she was 14-15.

quote:Originally posted by Thorny Rose: Yes, my uncle says Turkey can also be in the category of Caucasian countries ("Kafkas ülkesi") I don't think so : ) i mean first of all, there aren't caucasian mountains in Turkey... and second of all, there isn't pretty much left to steal from the caucasus... i.e. culture, music, traditions... so, don't even try... BTW Kafkas Ulkesi, means the Greater Caucasus, right???

quote:Originally posted by Azat: Artur, are you smoking something? In Armenia women get paid as much as men for the same work? Maybe in the Soviet days, but in the last 10 years we have evolved backwards in terms of women in Armenia. Azat, it supposed to be a joke... well you didn't get it : )) But in Armenia none are getting paid. Neither men nor women. The situation when the av. sallary is somewhat a bit higher than 10 dollars, then you can't call it a sallary. Moreover, people don't get that for months. The situation is a bit better in Yerevan rather than in other cities, but it is still very difficult... But from the GOD's will everything will be fine!

They are not turkish... Caucasian ... Kafkas : )))) Don't get confused there is big difference between a turkish guy and caucasian guy. BTW have you ever had caucasian boyfriends? And also why Turkey is so excited about the caucasus??? I mean it seems like Lezginka is the most popular music in Turkey. And there was a song, hit for months. One taxi driver when i told him that I am from Armenia... he was like, Oh really... i am also from Kafkas : ) I asked serious? He was: Yes yes! I asked where from. He told me Kars :: ))) Hahaha ... Kars... eastern Turkey... however i am not sure if geographically it is Caucasus, but the guy was so proud : ))))) C ya!

quote:Originally posted by MJ: Having control doesn't mean eating them, right? Additionally, I do distinctly remember a whole list of animals qualified as "unclean" for consumption purposes in the Old Testament. Now, who has writtent the Old Testament may be a subject of wider discussions. It is in Liviticus 11 Clean and Unclean Land Creatures 11:1 And the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying to them, 11:2 “Tell the Israelites, ‘This is the kind of creature you may eat from among all the animals1 that are on the land. 11:3 Any that divides the hoof—that completely splits the hooves in two2—and that also chews the cud3 among the animals, you may eat. 11:4 However, these4 you must not eat from among those that chew the cud and that divide the hoof: the camel, because it chews the cud5 but there is no dividing the hoof;6 it is unclean to you.7 11:5 The rock badger,8 because it chews the cud but does not divide the hoof; it is unclean to you. 11:6 The hare, because it chews the cud but does not divide the hoof; it is unclean to you. 11:7 The pig, because it divides the hoof—completely splits the hoof in two9—but does not chew the cud;10 it is unclean to you. 11:8 You must not eat from their meat and you must not touch their carcass;11 they are unclean to you. Clean and Unclean Water Creatures 11:9 “‘These you can eat from all creatures that are in the water: any creatures in the water that have both fins and scales,12 whether in the sea or in the streams,13 you may eat. 11:10 But any creatures that do not have both fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the streams, from all the swarming things of the water and from all the living creatures that are in the water, are detestable to you. 11:11 Since they are detestable to you, you must not eat their meat and their carcass you must detest. 11:12 Any creature in the water that does not have both fins and scales is detestable to you. Clean and Unclean Birds 11:13 “‘These you are to detest from among the birds—they must not be eaten, because they are detestable:14 the griffon vulture, the bearded vulture, the black vulture, 11:14 the kite, the buzzard of any kind,15 11:15 every kind of crow,16 11:16 the eagle owl,17 the short-eared owl, the long-eared owl, the hawk of any kind, 11:17 the little owl, the cormorant, the screech owl, 11:18 the white owl, the scops owl, the osprey, 11:19 the stork, the heron of any kind, the hoopoe, and the bat. Clean and Unclean Insects 11:20 “‘Every winged swarming thing that walks on all fours18 is detestable to you. 11:21 However, this you may eat from all the winged swarming things that walk on all fours, that have jointed legs19 to hop with on the land. 11:22 These you may eat from them:20 the locust of any kind, the bald locust of any kind, the cricket of any kind, the grasshopper of any kind. 11:23 But any other winged swarming thing that has four legs is detestable to you. Carcass Uncleanness 11:24 “‘By these21 you defile yourselves; anyone who touches their carcass will be unclean until the evening, 11:25 and anyone who carries their carcass must wash his garments and will be unclean until the evening. Inedible Land Quadrupeds 11:26 “‘All22 animals that divide the hoof but do not completely split it in two23 and do not chew the cud24 are unclean to you; anyone who touches them becomes unclean.25 11:27 All that walk on their hands among all the creatures that walk on all fours,26 they are unclean to you. Anyone who touches their carcass will be unclean until the evening, 11:28 and the one who carries their carcass must wash his garments and be unclean until the evening; they are unclean to you. Creatures that Swarm on the Land 11:29 “‘Now this is what is unclean to you among the swarming things that swarm on the land:27 the rat, the mouse, the large lizard of any kind, 11:30 the gecko, the spotted lizard, the lizard, the skink, and the chameleon. 11:31 These are the ones that are unclean to you among all the swarming things. Anyone who touches them when they die will be unclean until evening. 11:32 Also, anything they fall on28 when they die will become unclean—any wood vessel or garment or article of leather or sackcloth. Any such vessel with which work is done must be immersed in water29 and will be unclean until the evening. Then it will become clean. 11:33 As for any clay vessel they fall into,30 everything in it31 will become unclean and you must break it. 11:34 Any food that may be eaten which becomes soaked with water32 will become unclean. Any drink that may be drunk in any vessel will become unclean.33 11:35 Anything their carcass may fall on will become unclean. An oven or small stove must be smashed to pieces; they are unclean, and they will stay unclean34 to you. 11:36 However, a spring or a cistern which collects water35 will be clean, but one who touches their carcass will be unclean. 11:37 Now, if such a carcass falls on any sowing seed which is to be sown,36 it is clean, 11:38 but if water is put on the seed and such a carcass falls on it, it is unclean to you. Edible Land Quadrupeds 11:39 “‘Now if an animal37 that you may eat dies,38 whoever touches its carcass will be unclean until the evening. 11:40 One who eats from its carcass must wash his garments and be unclean until the evening, and whoever carries its carcass must wash his garments and be unclean until the evening. 11:41 Every swarming thing that swarms on the land is detestable; it must not be eaten. 11:42 You must not eat anything that crawls39 on its belly or anything that walks on all fours or on any number of legs40 of all the swarming things that swarm on the land, because they are detestable. 11:43 Do not make yourselves detestable by any of the swarming things.41 You must not defile yourselves by them and become unclean by them, 11:44 for I am the Lord your God and you are to sanctify yourselves and be holy because I am holy. You must not defile yourselves by any of the swarming things that creep on the ground, 11:45 for I am the Lord who brought you up from the land of Egypt to be your God42 and you are to be holy because I am holy. 11:46 This is the law43 of the land animals, the birds, all the living creatures that move in the water, and all the creatures44 that swarm on the land, 11:47 to distinguish between the unclean and the clean, between the living creatures that may be eaten and the living creatures that must not be eaten.’” The source: http://www.bible.org/netbible/ [ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: ARTURian ]

quote:Originally posted by Azat: Ali, I use to reside in Armenia in the days of Soviet Union and I am not sure if they forced other nations to convert to atheism. I know in Armenia people were free to go to church as they wished. Azat Because they knew it could be dangerous... They didn't do pretty much against Armenia, but the education, and all this communist - comsomol way of thinking was atheistic. However, they had very strong influence in Kazakhstan. These guys changed totaly. Nowadays it is difficult to see a good muslim in Kazakhstan... they forced them to change alphabet, to forget their religion etc. In russia, they were arresting bishops, blowing churches, destroying icons etc... But there are many good points about USSR, it was a very moral society, where erotic, open, violent films were banned...

quote:Originally posted by dragon: Is there such country on earth? There are few countries: Armenia, Georgia : ))))) Oh yes i almost forgot... Chechnya... : )

Horny, first of all, Merhaba! Naselsin? Yakshi? Tamam, lets comment, Bir: i agree on personal life and things like that... no questions Yeki: below - above ... and bulshit like that... what is your point??? And plus what is your problem? I told you, that i don't care who you are and what you are... I said, i am more than happy who you are, and i bless you with your lifestyle... hehe, image all turkish girls would be like that... nice big opportunities are for us in turkey... Now i understand why there are so many armenians living Turkey Anyways, i am off to my lectures... Gyule gyule! P.S. BTW how is my turkish? Picked up some words when i was in turkey this summer, even though the russian seems to be the second language in Istanbul... [ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: ARTURian ]