Arturian

Abris MosJan, it is a problem growing worldwide. I believe that parents need to provide some kind of education at the age when kids start understanding. Myself, i have never been drunk in my life, but i love armenian cognac. still 2 botles left (Ani and my favourite Vaspurakan) My grandfather (God rest his soul), used to tell me: "Drink but never drink up your mind", i.e. drink to some point where you feel there is a need to stop. About drugs, it is unbelievably widespread in England. The guys from former USSR countries that i study with, doing all kinds of drugs starting from hash ending cocain and extasy. It seems that there are no limits here. The dealers are everywhere, and they are all students. Just yesterday i was in the bar and the guy was smoking on the sofa during the lunch time. I believe there should be taugh controls and punishments. I can't see any other way to stop it. England is now legalizing hash in order to concentrate on class A drugs. Well it is none of my business what these people do, but they don't seem to be going to the right direction. [ February 07, 2002: Message edited by: ARTURian ]

quote:Originally posted by LISA: Only an very INSECURE worthles woman with NO SELFESTEEM and NO PRIDE will stay with a man that has cheated on her!!! Opposite... only powerful woman, who puts her children and their happiness above her life will stay with the man who cheats.

First, i said there is no difference between them, i didn't say she is or she is not prositute. The thing i am refering to is having "relations" before marriage. So there is no difference in that aspect. I am not judging you and your lifestyle. It is your problem not mine (if there is a problem). I am putting my point of view and that's it. This point of view is a religious and traditional armenian. If i see a woman that had relations before marriage for me she goes to category i was explaining and there is no way i can consider living with her. hasmiek, i am not here to preach teach or judge or whatsoever. The only girls that i teach and say what to do and what is good and bad are my sisters. I explained my point of view i asked not to start discussions as we have discussed it many times. Search the board and you will find answers. BTW, if you really want to know what makes "an Armenian girl an Armenian" go to this forum : http://www.hayastan.com/forum . I hope you understand russian. If not basically, there is a girl talk totally different from this forum, and they defend the point opposite of yours and talk about being modest shy, i.e. Armenian mentality, giving examples of russian and western girls and how it is unacceptable for an average Armenian girl to follow that way. So that doesn't make me naive or hypocrite or sexist as you may think. Regards

Wow, what is this. ganing out on me hasmiek, what disrespectful i said against anybody? it is groundless for you to say that. Gamavor, the word clean (armenian "makur" ) means a girl being clean before her husband. I believe i will pass this question. It will be Weel power -2 Thoth, and i don't see a difference between a prostitute and a girl who had relations before marriage. The only minor difference is that prostitute gets paid, but that's not significant Thoth, mankind moved? Are you sure? There can't be a move. These are morals, and they were established from the first day of existence of man. They don't change. Man, i am nobody to judge your wife or you. It is your problem. But in my case i will be sleeping without thoughts that a mother of my children was used by some blacks. No offence... Man, you are so different. Previously you said you are very much moral guy. Bro, under what religion you are very much moral. From christian point of view, sorry you are total opposite of almost every law. Hasmiek, there is one case, that a man can get married to a woman (according to religion and armenian traditions). And it is when a husband of a woman died and she had left with child or without. My far uncle married to this type of woman, her husband died in earthquake in 88. hasmiek, naivity you refer to is only from your point of view. in the society i live people lived like that for thousands of years. All my brothers and elders had the same views, it is not what i came up with. So please define why am i naive. Hagarag, Tigranness is not judging, he is explaining and defending his point of view. Note, neither me nor Tigranness said something like "it is wrong what you are doing, you will go to hell for that". No! We say, it is your choice to do what you want to do, but look at different angle and evaluate for yourself. Bless you all!

Well, it is just a matter of choice. Wanna have a clean wife, go for a virgin. If not, then better go for a prostitute... there is no difference... and you won't lose but will gain very good experienced woman for the rest of your life. ))) BTW, i can't believe you are still discussing this topic. This topic was up somewhat 1 year already.

Speaking at a reception on Monday in Yerevan, dedicated to 23-rd anniversary of Islamic Revolution in Iran, ambassador Mohammad Koleini said his country was willing to actively cooperate with Armenian authorities to eliminate or ease issuance of visas for reciprocal visits. Since the moment, when an option of territorial swap between Azerbaijan and Armenia was put into circulation in the context of Karabagh conflict regulation, which supposed exchange of Lachin for Meghri, the official Tehran asked several times the Armenian authorities to make the Iranian-Armenian section of border more transparent and ease the visa regime, up to its complete elimination. This issue was expected to be put on the agenda of president Kocharian’s last December visit to Iran, but due to Armenian side’s efforts it missed the agenda. Making the Armenian-Iranian border section (45 km along the river of Arax) transparent and elimination of visa regime is not emanating from Armenia’s economic interests and furthermore, it may endanger its national security. Out of five vehicles, crossing Armenian-Iranian border, four are Iranian; the same correlation is true with visitors and traders. Each Iranian vehicle crossing the Armenian border pays $200; issuance of visa costs $50. Armenian embassy in Tehran is the only embassy that works with profits. Even if the correlation of Armenian-Iranian trade were made equal, elimination of visa regime would not fit in Armenia’s interests, as there are security problems which Armenia is not able to solve now. The word is about drug trafficking. Iran has financial resources, experience and traditions to fight against drug—traffickers, it can keep under its control its borders with Afghanistan and Turkey, but can Armenia today fight drug trafficking? By the way a similar proposal was made by Iranian interior minister Musavi Lari during his recent visit to Baku, but it remained unanswered t, which actually means that it was rejected. Azg [ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: ARTURian ]

Is this real Tigran II coin ??? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?V...item=1329128861 This one is cool as well, Ayvazovsky: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?V...item=1509976315

Amazing! Check this one as well: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?V...item=1508758330 Map of Armenia and Turkey in the beggining of 19th century.

Hasmiek, there are many definitions what makes an armenian - armenian. One is that if your father is armenian then you are armenian4life or mother... you will still have armenian blood in you. Armenians have their own values and traditions, and i believe they are only to be proud of. If you reject those or disagree that will immediatly make you to be anti-armenian, as you spit at what your forefathers died and lived for. And this will disturb those armenians who respect these values and attitudes and they will say that you are not an armenian. I believe every armenian should respect what their nation fought and died for, and be proud of that. Otherwise you will be placed in the same sit with a turk who can only throw rubish at what we have. So one is blood and another is respect and pride what make an armenian - armenian. This is my pro-armenian definition Best of luck! Artur

Recent news emanating from the Holy See of Cilicia, in Antelias, is most disconcerting, to say the least. They are disturbing, and they may serve as another nail in the coffin of church unity. Indeed, an encyclical signed by His Holiness Aram I comes to create another fait-accompli in the ever growing process of the division within the Armenian Church. This new decree comes to establish a new prelacy in Canada, something long in the making for the observers of the discrepancy between the words and deeds of the powers-to-be in Antelias. When the new Diocese under Etchmiadzine jurisdiction was formed in Canada, the agents of division held on to their turf and refused to join the new diocese and gradually, and steadily, they worked their way into establishing new parishes in growing Canadian-Armenian communities. The last battle was fought in the tiny community of Vancouver, where a handful of Armenians were "endowed" with two churches, courtesy of usurpers of Antelias. The next step that followed was the formation of a vicarage, under the auspices of the Eastern Prelacy, and now we face the inevitable reality of a separate Prelacy, under the jurisdiction of Antelias and opposed to the legitimate Diocese under the jurisdiction of the Catholicos of all Armenians, at Etchmiadzine. This process lasted a long period, outliving at least the terms of two Catholicoses in Antelias. The actors have come and left the scene, but the conspiracy of division remained in place as the constant policy of Tashnag-dominated church in Antelias. Those who have had the opportunity of hearing or reading Aram Iþs thunderous speeches and sermons remember his all too familiar theme that "the Armenian Church is one and united", while, at the same time undermining the foundation of that very same unity by expending new parishes and churches in the Gulf countries, discrediting the Mother See at the World Council of Churches and other international forums, and upstaging His Holiness Karekin II, at every single trip, action and occasion. Ever since the collapse of the Soviet Empire, Antelias and its masters have run out of every conceivable excuse that they are fighting the ungodly Communist rule, which controls Etchmiadzine. Since Armenia’s independence Antelias leaders have shown their true colors by holding on to the divided section of the church, both as political pawn and cash cow. It is an open secret that the Tashnag party has full control of the church finances and also uses the captive church as a political leverage to score selfish gains in Armenia. During Ter Petrossian's unwarranted campaign to alienate and destroy the traditional political parties (and particularly the Tashnag party) clergy in Antelias obediently served their masters' political agenda. The announcement at Etchmiadzine, regarding the news of the new prelacy in Canada, underscores the limits of arrogance that Antelias demonstrates in its actions when it points that the Mother See "had not been notified officially" about this illegitimate action. This action dashes all hopes of witnessing unity within the Armenian Church anytime soon. With the election of Aram I, the course of church unity has taken an adverse turn and there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel. One of the casualties of the schism within our church is the adoption of the new bylaws, which would guide the church into the 21st Century and beyond. As long as Antelias remains at loggerheads with the Mother See, no universally acceptable bylaws can be adopted to be uniformly applied in all communities and levels of church hierarchy; that in turn leaves the door open to any self-indulging clergyman to defy church authority, as it happened recently in Moscow. Fortunately a dynamic, young, wise and principled pontiff has been elected to the throne of St. Gregory the Illuminator to guard vigorously the authority and supremacy of the Mother See at Etchmiadzine. Antelias and the Tashnags seem to have determined to keep the Armenian Church divided. The leadership within the Etchmiadzine camp cannot escape also the blame, first for the internecine struggles, clashes of egos and, above all, lacking leadership in this fight imposed on our church. Furthermore, here in America, we were lulled into believing that church unity was around the corner, while the dissident church was in the process of consolidating its gains and looking for new prey. For over a quarter century, unity committees continued to play the charade of negotiations, and the skeptics were castigated as non-believers in church unity. A group of naive ? perhaps well-intentioned ? leaders negotiated with the Prelacy representatives, believing that the church could be reunited on these shores while the rift was growing worldwide. The Diocesan representatives were not awakened until some of the Prelacy messengers themselves blew the whistle that the party had charged them with the mission of giving the runaround to the negotiating group and that they never intended to reach an equitable solution to the division. The Diocese did not educate its followers on the issues dividing our church, while any member of the dissident church was well informed and mobilized to follow the leadership in its mischievous course. Even more, those in the media who warned the public about the futility and pitfalls of the deceptive negotiations were asked not to interject "partisan politics" or "old country feuds in our church", thus playing into the hands of a well-disciplined and highly motivated group of people who had determined to take over the entire Armenian Church, to use it for their political ends. Will this new shock serve as a wake up call to our pundits? We seriously doubt it. The formation of a new prelacy in Canada is another blow to church unity, further deepening the division in the Armenian Church. It seems that the Holy See at Etchmiadzine and its followers are in for a long and ugly battle to restore and preserve the unity of the Armenian Church. Yervand Azatian , Armenian Mirror Spectator

Thot, i haven't offended your level of intellegence and pls don't you do so as well. About so-called it is so-called daoist, as people call it... no offense... i don't know much about religion, but i will check some net pages for that. So far i was just impressed that there is an armenian practising chinese religion. It is very unusual. But its your problem. Hasmiek, it is your problem what you do or have boyfriends or not. I will not allow my sister to do that and i am sure she won't do that herself. And i would never marry a woman that had been with someone else and won't be able to call her mother of my children. This is my opinion and we shouldn't start this discussions. You may disagree. Artur

Movses, i talked to him and he understood the point. And it will never happen again. We indeed have more imortant issues to discuss. Artur

[ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: ARTURian ]

quote:Originally posted by Juggernaut: Yes, somehow this has escaped their (revisors) minds. Unfortunatly these revisers are motived by nothing but benjamins... Tomothy 2:3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days (before the Day of Judgement, added by me). People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God-- having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth!

Sip you are right, but i am not religious fanatic as you say and i don't judge people. It is somewhat different from muslims who judge who is right and who is wrong. If you don't believe then it is your choice. God judges, and i am his slave and nothing more. About punishment, i believe people will need it through their years. Also did you realise that when people become elder they start praying more because their time comes and fear makes them do that, so the fear of punishment is not just for immature people. Also, there might be good, bad right or wrong sides in religions, but i am nobody to judge, and surely i won't judge and disagree what is said in Bible as it is a sin. Some things have explanations some things don't, and i am nobody to judge GOD and his actions. Regards, Artur [ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: ARTURian ]

quote:Originally posted by Sip: Are you just there temporarily? Yes, i am doing Bachelor degree in Business and Economics here... final year. [ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: ARTURian ]

[ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: ARTURian ]

Movses, i am not going to follow azat's way. don't worry Azat, if you would be a man you would contact me in private. So far you are throwing bad words in public, that shows how not serious you are and that you have no responsibilities over your own words. I PMed you, hope you will the same!!! Start being a man for God's sake!!! Regards, Artur

...double message again... [ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: ARTURian ]

Thoth, one of you called me being agressive... now look at you... why are YOU so aggressive? What did i say? I said only IF God and IF not... no offence... Why do attack me with childish explanations, ignorance... ?? About the post... My God indeed is not devil. Why? Because my God is caring and loving and 1.5 million armenians did not die for the devil. If you believe that to brash teeth you'll go to heaven. No PROBLEM ... believe in what you want : )) Man the more i read you posts, it seems that you have been affected with something and need some recovery. Did i say something offensive? About fear of punishment. Indeed is one of the basis of my religion. And the thing is the same fear makes people to be cautious, to think about moves and what they do. But this basis come with if you don't do it you will recieve gardens of heaven. So be afraid of punishment and know that reward is kept in heaven, that makes people not to commit a sin. These two concepts are very important. And most of religions have these. Regards, Artur

quote:Originally posted by PandukhT: Arthur are you in UK.? yes...

Revelation 22:18 I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book!

Thoth, read my posts carefully as i said nothing about your so-called religion. Your choice, not mine. I ask moderators to delete the part about sex. Geez you have a family, wife ... think! Artur

quote:Originally posted by Azat: AP Homepage - www.ap.org AP is a service and gets published in hundreds of newspapers also the AP Wire goes probably to all the news rooms in the states. here is one location where you can find that story: World News Website But it was in many papers on the 10th or 11th of this month. thanks

quote:Originally posted by PandukhT: http://www.missarmenia.am/eng/images/contenders/1/big/g13.jpg http://www.missarmenia.am/eng/images/contenders/1/big/g16.jpg http://www.missarmenia.am/eng/images/contenders/1/big/g11.jpg Hmmm... Vat che... i.e. vat chi