ThornyRose

For example, MJ, I don't see why you are so obsessed with Khodja when there are jerks like Jerky-vore preaching hate and making racist remarks. Why is he left alone on his ridiculous and slurred comments?

quote:Originally posted by gamavor: Turks are genetic idiots because they hate those who they tried to eliminate. Those "modern" turks, who believe that their nation is "great", and who try to justify the idiotism of the ordinary turks are arch-idiots. The common refrain "I don't know that I'm an Idiot and that's why I'm not an Idiot" is not fashionable anymore. 52! PS: I'm glad to see that the most active genetic idiotesa (feminine gender) is trying to learn Armenian. Very commendable Indeed! [ November 07, 2001: Message edited by: gamavor ] Had bacon and eggs this morning and thought you were entitled to it, Jerky-vore? You are betraying your macaque ancestors (mine are the apes). The only person who hates here is you. Don't take my word for it - feel free to verify. The only idiot here on this thread is you with your flippant comments. You haven't been able to refute my arguments and have resorted to the supposedly-Turkish knee-jerk and avoidance game coupled with insults that are totally uncalled for and make you look as lame as you are, like a typical old fart piece of faeces. FLOORED!!! Not trying to learn Armenian, yet - I pick up words every now and then.

It must have been the 30th of July – Steve was still in Turkey on the 30th of June. Unfortunately, because I lost my former hard-disk a few weeks ago, I have no records of what I had been told – I had noted them down. I had told only Steve at the time, because, obviously, I wanted to learn more or be given ideas as to what more to ask before I could present things in an orderly fashion. Steve, do you still have that e-mail I sent you? That’s for when the blasting was continuing. I had specifically asked the lady if the blasting was continuing, and she had given me that affirmative answer, saying she had actually been there in Ani with her boss at the time. Whether the “fact-finding” delegation was allowed or not, the quarrying had to stop in the face of the controversy – and it didn’t. As for the article by who-knows-whom... I think there was lack of journalistic integrity. And that remark by Steve was not out of context, because it pointed out an attitude, namely, not only the inability to auto-criticize but also harbouring a knee-jerk reaction – leaving out that part which mentions the quarries and the observed/possible/likely (in order of uncertainty) harm. I need not be an Armenian to criticize the Turkish side for its lack of professionalism. That same journalist didn’t have to be Turkish to criticize the miners and their benefactors for their lack of responsibility. Even a mention of the ongoing issue would have been appropriate. I know who Vartan Oskanian is. But they got him involved, nevertheless, did they not, in the UNESCO appeal situation? He must (?) have appealed to his counterparts in whatever ministry responsible. Steve HAS mentioned the damages observed over the past two years, on his site. They are there. The not-so-scholarly (my opinion - I say so because Steve asked me to translate a report by her on her work at the Fire Temple) archaeologist, Beyhan Karamağaralı, has also observed such. It is on one of the articles I skimmed through yesterday while composing this: http://www.vestris.com/cgi-agnes/one/agnes...+3264.1.1.1.1.1 That article is mentioned here on Hye Forum: /cgi-bin/forum/ultim...ic&f=1&t=000385 Whether there can be significant damages or not – the word “significant” without a proper look has little bearing, as those monuments are fragile, and it is not at the disposal of the experts on the Armenian side of the border to see how fragile they are. An impending crack may have been hastened. So, yes, I agree with your saying that it should have been taken for fact. As for the quarries’ being harmful or not and what other extraction methods there are – companies do not purchase new machinery, reassess their plans, and what-not when there are complaints. Take the limestone quarries here, for example – you had to have the experts come in, take their measurements, etc., and only after that did the company invest in rippers. Given what was told me by that assistant, I don’t think that that company, either, has been fast to get itself new equipment. I wish I could go to Anıtsal myself on Friday to bring some more clarity to this situation (i.e., until when have the explosions continued, and what can info/examples can they give me about the damage). Yet, whenever I call them up, Fikri Bey is out and about – in Isparta, in Iğdır, wherever. I hope he is slowing his pace down because of the season. Maybe just talking to the assistant face to face would suffice if I could make the time? I have an exam on Friday afternoon and then may have to go to the plant where I “worked” this summer with my buddy and one instructor to talk to the technical coordinator and see if we could arrange for a “field trip” there (high school style, ehehehe). What I would really have loved to have done – I would love to convince that blasting expert I mentioned earlier to go to Kars and take some measurements. But that is impossible, really. :- Just wishful thinking of my own... Who would take a little girl seriously? And my elders aren’t aware of the situation (let alone interested) to do me a favour.

quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian: that▓s one way of discharging the Turkish venom that all Armenians carry in their blood √ Unrelated, but - what are those?? By the way, Sir, I still enjoy reading most of your stuff! Stating the obvious but prickly! Keep up the good work!

quote:Originally posted by MJ: Thorny, Actually this is what I was pursuing regardless of the current online contoversy. I trace elements of misinformation here and inaccurate representation. Since I have no ability to concentrate on the topic, I would like to pose few clarifying questions, and will get back to youas soon as I can: 1. Who and where has presented evidence that the qyuarries in Armenia have caused damage to the monuments of Ani? 2. Who has tried to silence anyone or hide the fact of the ongoing at the time explosions? 3. Do you have any evidence that the explosions have not been stopped effective the date I have repported to the forum based on the information I had received? Perhaps I could come up with a couple of other questions when I can better concentrate on the topic. MJ, I called up the Anıtsal guys (the ones involved in the restoration) in early or mid-September. The lady who attended was the same as the person I had talked to before, and she told me that she had been there with her boss, Fikri Bey (don't know his full name), in late July or early August, I think - I must have the dates written down somewhere - and she told me that the explosions had been continuing when she was there. I'll take her word. I know, I would have been less skeptical had she told me they had been stopped. Now, for the damage: the rule of thumb in such matters is that all operations are to be suspended upon complaints until the facts are determined. I know, because such things, we watch on TV quite often here in Turkey. You see the same thing about the gold extraction in Bergama (another thing people in the whereabouts have to complain about, besides the "use of cyanide"). You hear about the same stuff even here in Ankara where there are all these limestone quarries. And hasn't Steve shown us one article written by an Armenian where there are all these justified complaints about the restorations carried out whereas there is nothing about the quarry (and all this since the passages have been "lifted verbatim" from his site)? Nobody has tried to silence anything even though even Vartan Oskanian has been involved (to no avail, obviously), because they don't have to! Rabid folks like Rouby Poopy serve to that end, anyhow! I take Steve and Fikri Bey's word (through his assistant) for the existence of the damage. I have no other choice, because, not only have I not visited Ani, but I have no way of comparing the size of the cracks and what-not Steve tells about. Until someone who has equal experience (for lack of a better word as can drop from my lips/fingertips at the moment) is able to argue for the contrary, those quarries are harmful in my eyes. (But I don't think that there is anysuchbody - those cracks, had they been spontaneous, would still have been there - but the quarries constitute an undesired variable there.) No element of misinformation can make the story turn 180 degrees. You see, Rouby Poopy, no amount of what is done on the Turkish side gives you carte blanche or an excuse.

quote:Originally posted by Rouben Malayan: Your turkish "archeologists" cause now more damage to Ani than forces of nature all together. Bulldozing and replacing original stones with new cut briks isn't called restoration. And show me the "evidence" that Armenians are harming their own legacy. They have no reason for doing so, while turks have plenty of reasons to level to ground Ani and the remaining Christian monuments in Turkey. BTW, the quotes on the poster are from the report by UNESCO and recent photo exibition in Armenian Parliament shows the state of Armenian Churches on the territory of Turkey, Iran and Azerbaijan. Bark, bark, no use, facts remain facts. Why would our incompetent archaeologists make facts out of nothing? I would agree that the archaeologists are doing a terrible job from what I, like anyone online who hasn't been there (I intended to this summer but got side-tracked), can see. The intention to harm the monuments may not be there - but it is an outcome, nevertheless, from what has been related to me/us. Steve has been there - and he goes there year after year. Steve is not the only person who has told me about the quarries, though. The only canine here is you, as you have chosen to attack me rather than consider the possibility that the quarries could be causing harm. So immature.

quote:Originally posted by Rouben Malayan: The evidence is clearly displayed on the posted poster. Any you may go and bark wherever you want, fortunately very few people listen or pay attention to you. What evidence, Rouby Poopy? Did I say Armenian monuments were not being destroyed? NO! I didn't say the evidence indicates that they are not destroyed. I said that there is evidence that the quarries cause damage, and jerks like you in the Armenian Republic have tried to hush up their deed while it is Turkish archaeologists (with or without the quotes) and their foreign colleagues they work/have worked together with that ask for something to be done about it, whereas not only do you ignore, you ignoramuses, but you also deny! We mentioned the quarries - that poster of yours has a link to a site - what does that site say about quarries? Update what you know if you haven't already. Those who do not know, LEARN.

quote:Originally posted by Rouben Malayan: Yes, I forgot, your orders come from Ankara. And insulting me won't change the reality. Barbarians you are and barbarians you will remain. More childish blabber? Anyone who points out the quarries and the observed damage is an informer for the Turkish government? And I for one am a barbarian? Go whine some more to your moderator! Maybe he'll take you in his arms and stroke your hair and tell everything's going to be alright! quote Nope. That site on your poster - have you not read it all? I did not deny the wrongdoings in Turkey, yet you call me a barbarian? Sod you! YOU are the denialist and the barbarian with a picture of himself with his exotic glasses on his site - just a donkey with a golden rein, but still a donkey. quote:Originally posted by MJ: Thorny, on an unrelated note, I would appreciate if you could formulate explicitly what you where trying to convey about the "quarries." It seems to me that the topic keeps coming back, which tells me that in some people's minds the issue has remained unresolved. I am very busy till the weekend, but will get back to you on the subject as soon as I can. MJ, if that thread hadn't been deleted, anyone could have followed how the "conversation" developed to end up with my mentioning of how naive it was to think Armenians were the only folks capable of protecting these monuments, given what has been going on with the quarries. To remove all doubt, the operations in the quarries have, Have, HAVE to be stopped, IMO - yet the best you get from jerks like the above are denial of such potential damage and calling myself a barbarian - a loss from the beginning (and better and juicier material to post around to show just who the "great project developer" is - just another piece of faeces like Astarjian or Demirel or Konyar). I think Armenians, like any folk, deserve better "representatives" - or, at worst, these people have to put their wits together. Ah, and another thing, Rouby Poopy - quite a few people listen to what I say. Let's see how many people enjoy what you are saying in your fervent generalizing mania.

Credit where credit is due, sweetie.

By the way, Rouben, that site on the poster you've shown me - guess who it belongs to...

quote:Originally posted by Kazza: You must imagine how bad food must have tasted in them days, if you compare it to todays standards. They musthave had to use horrible ingredients, to preserve or emisfluise things. Depends... On one hand, they might have tasted worse with what they had to do to preserve the stuff (I go easy on salt, and salted stuff is just a no-no for me). Tasted worse in terms of what we are used to today. On the other hand, we are eating tasteless stuff today, especially vegetables and fruit (and also meat and grains - hey, what's left??)... So, older and/or ancient stuff might have been TASTIER, too.

Rouben, watch your mouth. I have no orders to take from a shameless and immature coward like the likes of yourself. Either admit your folly like a man or get lost yourself and I will post what you said all around where it is relevant to show people what you said in the face of evidence. This is not blackmail for you to accept the damage the quarries inflict (or, if you are not convinced, "might be inflicting") but rather other peoples' rights to know what they are entitled to know. At best, your Republic of Armenia has been stupid enough to give the same Turks that have destroyed all those monuments the excuse to get away with yet another. See where I stand? Your finger pointing is no better than poking it up your bunghole... Do you have doubts about the quarry? Why does it mean so much to you? Have you relatives that make a living out of it? Like I said, indignation is natural, but you are not an infant to brush it off as easily as that.

Right. I had posted the similar at the top of this thread on Armenia-Diaspora Forum. http://www.vestris.com/cgi-agnes/one/agnes...TMLArticle+3252 This is the answer I got from good ole Zareh! http://www.vestris.com/cgi-agnes/one/agnes...LArticle+3252.1

Maybe you have a point, MJ, but, as far as I know, Aghtchik and Kazza are too busy or something... Levon, we haven't heard from him since early June... And Naira busy posting elsewhere, perhaps? The know-it-alls (in my case, conservArtur, Jerky-vore, etc.) do not discourage me.

quote:Originally posted by Rouben Malayan: What is your point Steve? You are sabotaging our work everywhere you can. What is it you want? How about you coming clean, admitting your folly, and perhaps promising to do the best you can to promote publicity of the issue of the Ani quarries so they are closed down and whatever harm possible is prevented?

Perhaps it has less to do with who is now here? I think it has more to do with who no longer is here... Domino, Naira, Levon, etc... And Aghtchik and Kazza have been too scarce of late...

Still no e-mail and still no PM's...

Somebody answer quick, this is urgent!!!

So, people who can't contact me via net54 can do so via e-mail or PM here.

This afternoon, it seemed like Hye Forum was having problems. It seems OK now, though. But this time it is Net54 that has problems! Is it me - or does everyone NOT see anything (or time out): http://network54.com/ ?

Thanks, Azat. At this rate, I'll be moving my forums out somewhere else... But where?

Listen Khodja, 1. In case you didn't know, it is quality that counts and not quantity! The problem which Turks & Azeris seem to face is their lack of quality. See the Artsax conflict: Artsax-Armenians vs. 8 Mio Azeris. You know the outcome! In such conflicts, it is usually those that defend their country (and not their monarch on vast corners of an empire) that beat the aggressors who have little emotional belonging there. I’m sure that my neighbor would have more gut and will to defend his house than I would to invade it. Similarly, the Greeks “came as they had come” with their Anatolian campaign, although their equipment and circumstances were much better than ours. 2. Over 40% of you so called Turks are actually Kurds which are still suffering under terrible kinds of suppression in Turkey. Ask them what they really think of Turks. And them how they feel about living in a country in which people are forced to worship Kemal Attaturk as if he was God! I thought it was 20% of Turkey’s population that constituted the Kurdish ethnicity. How lovely it is to blow up figures so they look even more dramatic – right? Hey – I’m a Turkish citizen. I haven’t got to the point of asking a Kurd what he really thinks of Turks, but I’m sure it is not the hate you would like to portray. We have Kurds all around us – and that “Kurdish conscience” you more-royalist-than-the-royals mention is not as sharp as you might think. Had Kurds thought “what they really think of Turks” in the way you wish to connote, then I suppose I would have been harassed in Doğubayazıt because it should be obvious I am not one of them – and I wasn’t abused in any way for being a Turk. The very thought never entered my mind, because such issues as you say exist nowhere but in sicko foreigners’ minds. Another thing you dimble-weeds fail to realize is that it is all ethnic groups that equally suffer from suppression. Unless you claim anything you find around is Turkish, your expression is not guaranteed. There is little difference between what Kurds and Circassians (I am one) or any other group go/have gone through in Turkey. The only difference is that the Circassians were spread all over the country and never quite concentrated in a region they could historically or otherwise claim to be their own. Hence, the “world” cared not for Circassians but for Kurds whose rights (or was it “independence”) were supposedly championed by the PKK. Hence, today you have European MP’s wearing PKK’s colours for Kurdish cultural rights but not Circassian costumes or motifs for the same. Now, what to do with that? Take my advice if you will and don't use any statistics; especially if you are not aware of all the aspects involved. You talk about peace? That's fine. I have a suggestion. I will come around and kill your father and rape your mother and take everything away from you and then, some years later I'll come back and talk about making peace with you without even apologizing!!! What do you think of that? It is not up to the Armenians to make peace with the Turks. What do you think they are suppose to do? Go over and kiss & hug the Turks for what they have done and tell them "It's Ok, let us become friends."??? Turks should do their homework first and then start talking about peace. I believe you are not aware of the audience you address. Ali and I are the only Turks active on this board, I think, and/but what you say above does not apply to us. Add something to what we are saying instead of rambling on. What you can do, however, is emphasize the difference between the state and the people who are [in a way] victims of the former. You already seem to know the difference – hack where it is weak. Mehmet, Your explanation is too simplistic. Being polite and diplomatic are very good qualities but not at the expense of the truth. If only 10% (probably non-turks) of the total of 65 million are aware and ready to admit what happened in the beginning of 20 century, to me this race is idiotic. Antihuman bastards that must be eliminated. Period. Could you please also explain to me why all of their neighbors hate them? Jerky-vore, is it my right to claim you are idiotic because you’ve been literally brainwashed to eat meat? I mean, it is obvious that the fact that Armenians are no longer where they used to be when they were so numerous pinpoints to genocide, by the outcome. But it is also a fact that a baby in a cradle will not choose to eat the [live] rabbit rather than play with it. It doesn’t have the instinct to munch on its neck and suck on its blood with relish, gnawing at the raw flesh (can you?) with its baby teeth. Even some small canines will prefer a plate of fruit over a plate of meat (I’m talking about my uncle’s [rather, mother’s cousin’s] poodle) despite the shape of their teeth and the size and length of their intestines. Still, we slaughter animals day after day (and I am happily brainwashed – yum yum :9 ), believing we were created omnivores or something. Somehow we were “created” ( ) with flint tools to slash at animals. How about before (LOL) that? Now, does that give me the right to go on at length about others, Jerky-vore? Shall I threaten to destroy all those who do not accept they were taught wrong? I’ve also given you the chance to come clean and accept that you’ve been taught wrong, Jerky-vore. Accept it now. Do/will you, Jerky-vore? You can’t say I didn’t tell ya. Turks, on the other hand, haven’t been provided the similar luxury – ever.

Azat, here's more: http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20011103/capt.1004780236bangladesh_attacks_dha102.jpg Queuing up!

Aga! I've said tooo much. ))): You guys knew it all along, didn'ya?

LOL, Azat! So, tell us... What's it like in that spooky "Moderators' Corner"? I've heard lots of stuff about that place - that he/she who enters cannot leave - no way out. That it is a blessing and a curse at the same time to have set foot in the place... And that it's full of ghosts flying about and creepy critters crawling here and there... And that it's real cozy with so many men!