ThornyRose

Congrats. Filiz P.S.: how old are you?

The only way it can change its pro-western orientation is if a revolution similar to Iranian occurs in Turkey. Outside of a few cities in the West (Istanbul, Izmir and Ankara), most of the Turkish public is still religious and can easily be manipulated by mullahs. by alpha. As for what I think about retribution, there are genocide survivors (directly) and there are those that are entitled to their inheritance, the children and/or grandchildren. Therefore, the living descendents are to gain any form of retribution their ancestors would have had. I think this is pretty basic. About Jewish organizations, I don't know. Maybe it was to compensate for having shut them down? Maybe to aid in re-organization of the community? And, yes, recognition of the problem is the beginning of it all... However, it is going to take so much more for this, given the current situation. What will it take to change it? I honestly do not know.

MJ, one thing I want to note is that, although Germany was the defeated at the end of World War II as it had been in World War I, I think the Allies tried not to punish it, attitude-wise. After all, it was the “punishment” of the Treaty of Versailles (adding insult to injury) and the Germans’ “falling low” in their own eyes that spurred Hitler to power. I have heard it said that the world community knew that you should not adopt such policies as to punish the defeated and cause a strong reaction on their part but try to set them straight and on the road, get them to participate and regain dignity. Indeed, the way Germany has developed and its people relatively docile, this time contrary to the prior, is evidence of this – not because they were defeated twice and hence had to gulp down frustration. Sure, Germany was not allowed to deny its responsibilities - but the "punishment," I think, is the wrong word. I do not know of Germany’s retributions to Israel; I do know that it has paid surviving victims and their families. Any info on Germany and Israel? It does not strike me meaningful given Israel never was a party to the events/incidents, setting its nonexistence at the time aside. I have to admit I am impressed by some of the views that show recognition of practicality over theory – Turkey’s situation, what is possible and what is stretching, how to make the best of all possibilities, etc., in contrast to what I see on some boards. I like it here. And it is not because it strokes my feelings for my country. Honest to heart. Iran? You guys, come on. Sure, fundamentalists are a concern for us in that they harm our people and make us lose time, but, heck... As long as the army is there (and as long as it weeds out “scum” within them) no radical groups can do anything. It is these and not the religious folk we have to fear. No 20% of the country can reverse our direction that easily – that is the way it should be if we as individuals and as groups know how to look out for our interests (not quite yet – or am I mistaken? I hope so) and are able to confirm our rights. Our people are getting better informed, constantly. [secularism is the only way you can protect the rights of atheists, Muslims, Christians, etc., at the same time.] One thing about the army, though... I seem to get the feeling that people think that since the population is unable to fend for itself, the army, the protector against external enemies only, should sit back and watch. It is supposed to be the equivalent of people’s will, this possible disorder. I disagree. It takes lesser amount of resources to maintain and continue a system than it takes to dismantle and refurbish one – does it not? Anyway... That is off topic.

Insensitive... Well, Boghosinho, it has happened, though I have brushed it aside by saying to myself, “These are trash, anyway.” I have been accused (in Turkish, of course) by that Yunus (and his many personalities) – he once asked me if I had no compassion for my fellows who had been massacred – that’s the point – the difference cannot be understood or it can be chosen not to be fathomed. Sure, at the end of the day, dead is dead – but a government knee-deep into this crime (which is what makes it so extensive)? It is too bad people think on an all-or-none basis... I usually remind my fellow Turks of Cyprus and the lives of some of those who were forced to live under horrible conditions prior to 1974, added to this the way people who stood in the way of the enosis lovers were murdered, Sampson, Grivas, Makarios, etc. – most recent of all - compassion for the sorrow of one yet not for the other... Are we picking sides? There are Turks out there, I admit, who can’t accept the deaths of Armenians – the very beginning of the story – and yet others who come to accept these in time and try to squirm past the facts – it is easy to follow (perhaps because I once went down this road, about a year ago, ehehe – silly me – who talks like this about themselves?)... Anyway – I think there can be much teaching to be done. Ready to accept one and not the other – I think one can work on this... Poke it until it breaks... Of course I do not see myself as insensitive. Those twerps can beat it.

You couldn't have said it better, Boghosinho. (And this comes from a Turk - would others understand why or would I be labeled insensitive?) Very simply put: it bears no relation to the Armenian Genocide. What has been done cannot be undone.

Methinks you might remember me from Armenia-Diaspora Forum...

As far as I know, Abkhazian did not have its own script, although the family insigniae are perhaps the remnants of a long-lost writing. It is currently written in the Cyrillic alphabet which is certainly incapable of accomodating for the 64(?) sounds...

Well... I've always wondered why the "white race" got its name from the Caucasus... Perhaps there is more to the name? I doubt there was such a country, though. As for Sanskrit... Didn't know it was considered to be the oldest... There are a few words in Turkish, loaned from Sanskrit, by the way. One that I have been told is "güneş" (which I thought made sense in Turkish as "companion to the day" - sun)... Another is "ev" (originally "eb," I thınk) - house. Both of these were told to me by the same person and I must have been so curious I still remember them. Don't know about veracity, though. Other than that, Abkhazia (plus Georgia, I think) is the historic land of Colchida where Jason and the Argonauts went on their quest for the Golden Fleece. A story I heard - when God created Earth, he sent his angel to distribute languages from a bag. The angel obeyed and gave a language a land, but when it came to the last piece of land, namely the Caucasus, the angel realized that there were still too many languages left for such a small patch of land. Regardless, it dumped the languages over the Caucasus - hence you have so many little nations there... (Same goes for most of Africa, too, though.)

Interesting... I had heard from my mother that there were some connections between Abkhazian and Basque - only allegedly so - perhaps indicative of some long-lost proto-Caucasian - the links have been lost with the Romanizing of Western Europe and the hordes of folks coming from elsewhere... I think we will never really know... Pity... Perhaps she got that from this one book I have in my library but haven't come around to reading... The book is a bit silly, in my opinion - Abkhazian is deemed to be the beginning of all European languages or some such (if not all Indo-European) - although you can't dispute, as the guy provides a word and its forms in several different languages... Still... Why Abkhazian?