phantom22

OK Gams, Now where do we go from here? What kind of country do you want to see in Armenia? I have been to Greece, Israel and Palestine, as well as western European countries. I have also been to countries in East Asia. I have been to Armenia also. You did not answer my question. What do you propose?

OK Mr. Attorney what is the process you propose toward that end? ....and from where do you pull "Bosnian" out of your hat?

Hey Gams, From the age of four I recited the American Pledge of Allegiance and sang "My Country 'Tis of Thee" and " America the Beautiful." Every nation develops citizen loyalty in this way. We were Catholics, and after I was age 7 Protestants, but we went to Armenian school to learn the language and culture. Plus my grandmother lived with us and instilled the culture in us. We became hybrids, Americans of Armenian heritage. The problem with Turkey is that her whole history is a "BIG LIE." Americans never deny annihilating the Natives. Instead they make money showcasing the Native settlements as tourist attractions. Burt Reynolds, Cher, etc. tout their partial Native American heritage while in Turkey the whole country goes into hysterics when it is revealed that Ataturk's adopted daughter was Armenian. Turkey is a nation in collective PSYCHOSIS.

...and those who have suceeded these butchers expect to be welcomed into the EU with open arms, with no contrition.

Piggy "hit the nail on its head."

Why does everyone forget that after the time of Jesus, Chrisitianity is reeking with the blood of innocents? The Catholic Inquisition killed milions of Christians. The Armenian nobles killed hundreds of thousands of Armenian Paulician Christians and hundereds of thousands of Armenian Tondrakian Christians.

Gams, I can't do that because of certain things that I revealed in this forum, but I can tell you that when I was 27, I was a "dead-ringer" for that poor French Brazilian bloke those British cops just shot in their present hysterical condition.

Who designated YOU the ultimate judge? So you do not consider my Assyrian strain to be non-Armenian? How about my French strain left over from the Ciligian Kingdom? So the Mamikonians and Bagratunis are not Armenians?

Artaxias, Do you claim that there is not other ethnic strains among the Armenians? Historical veracity will prove you wrong.

Gamavor, I was responding to Z'areh's comment that no Armenian would consider Giligia anything but an Armenian Kingdom. So my BIG point is that we don't have to be hung up on ethnic purity or "cultural purity" for a nation to be considered Armenian.

Giligia was ruled by a bunch of Armenian "muts" like my father's family. They were part French and German and predominantly Catholic. This kingdom was as much European as Armenian. The last king, Levon, is buried in St. Denis in Paris, the land of part of his heritage.

So you learned that from our mutual friend Makoto?

Until last summer, that was my view out my windows for five years. My only time to get serious is on the internet. Otherwise even work is like play.

Armen, You have distilled the essence of the Jews success. In Europe they became Europeans in temperment. Disraeli is an example. When this happens with Armenians, the community rejects them, thus wasting any advantage that would arise from such a person. No wonder that I say although Armenians acting individually are brilliant, that acting collectively, Armenians are imbeciles.

Armen, Part of the Turkish government program is to wipe out the memory of Armenians. Much of the architecture of Turkey was designed by Armenians. Armenians held high government positions, but were never far from being killed by the sword due to being "infidels." What do you want? A white-washing of history?

Gams, A war between Armenia and Turkey will NEVER take place. What will occur is that Turkey will find herself increasingly isolated due to "the Armenian issue." The Israelis have only been able to stop the Genocide resolutions so far in the US and in their own country (muzzling Sarid, Beilin, etc.) They have had little ability to stop these in Europe and in many of these European nations the Jews have been vehemently advocating the Armenian cause. Ditto Turkish workers union in Germany. Germany has won the diplomacy war because she put her past beyond criticism. "The Armenian issue" will have an effect like battery acid on the Turkish ability to function globally. No war will be necesary.

Gams, Advocating war between Turkey and Russia on Armenia's behalf (Russians increase their sphere of influence) I could understand. War between Turkey and Iran, with Iran as Armenia's ally, I could also fathom. As for advocating a war between Turkey and Armenia alone, I wonder about your sanity

Armen, This has nothing to do with "an eye for an eye." Nobody here is advocating stealing from Turks or Turkey what is rightfully theirs. They can have what their ancestors in Lydia, Phrygia, Luwia, etc. held before being Turkified. Ararat belongs to Armenia! Ani belongs to Armenia! At least Kars and Ardahan belong to Armenia! What attributes do you consider are central to being a "good Christian?" Should we tell the Armenians in the ROA and Karabagh to "turn the other cheek," open their borders and surrender their territory to the Turks? I look at the present administration in Washington, who profess to be devout Christians, but do not act anything like Christ would have acted. So you want us to forget that Turkey is destroying our heritage, minimizing our accomplishments under the Sultans, letting the roofs of Christian churches collapse through neglect?

I see! I have participated in American politics. It is when I began to reveal that I was Armenian that my problems in American politics began. It seems that at the time, being an Armenian in the Democratic Party was a real liability. I consider my self an American of Armenian heritage and not an Armenian. I have only visited Armenia. My family was from Western Armenia, much different than the region of the ROA in climate and temperment.

Gams, Then what do you mean by "claim ownership?"

Gams, I see that you do not mingle at all with Jews. The Jews that I know vehemently deny that Jews have much control over what transpires in world affairs.

Gams, Please explain what you are referring to when you wrote "the Jews have taken that is not theirs."

Gams, I could not agree with you MORE. Genocide recognition is secondary. I really don't care to make the Turks look bad in the eyes of the world. If they agree to give us back what is ours, not only financial and land, but our HISTORY, our ACCOMPLISHMENTS our SENSE OF BEING, mere Genocide recognition is secondary. They already agree that a multitude of Armenians died. The whole world knows that these people did not die a natural death. We need to look at the present circumstances in Turkey. Why are churches not allowed to fix their roofs? Why does the Turkish community go into hysterics when it is revealed that Ataturk's adopted daughter was Armenian? Why is Armenian a dirty word in Turkey?

Although one of my great-grandfathers personally financed the total reconstruction of an Armenian Apostolic Church, one of his daughters married a Hye Catholic and converted to her husband's religion. Her son, raised a Catholic, also married a Hye Catholic. After the circumstances that transpired in my childhood, my parents decided to bolt the Catholic Church within which they were both raised. My brother and I were raised, from that point on, as mainline Protestants. After many unsuccessful attempts to find a suitable mate among the Armenians, my brother married a Jewish girl and converted to Judaism. The upscale Armenians we associated with were hung up on outward displays of success. This Jewish daughter of a CEO knew value when she saw it. I ended up marrying an Armenian. I didn't know what I was getting myself into. My parents were immigrants from Western Armenia, but I was raised as an American. The full force of the community approach hit me between the eyes. My mother and father had associated with odars and, while maintaining an Armenian identity, had become American in their viewpoints. My wife's parents held on to many of the cultural attributes of the community. Oil and water did not mix. Our marriage ended in divorce. The sad alliance between our church leaders and the bosses and benefactors of the Armenian community does not generate a brighter future for our community. It banishes many to the odar world.

It is was an internal affair in Azerbaijan. The Armenians of Karabagh seceeded from Azerbaijan and when attacked, created a buffer zone. It was the pogroms in Sumgait that set the stage for this. If the Azeris had treated Armenians with civility, none of this would have happened. What invasion?