phantom22

Turkey is a sick joke! First renaming animals, now this. What credibility do they have? NILCH!

Edward, The first thing we can do is to return to our Eurabatzi roots instead of all the Turkish and Middle Eastern customs we have acquired. ...And I don't mean being Russians as many Armenians in the ROA are. I am sure that our historic ways did not include these foreign influences.

You sound just like my ex-wife. So you think that Armenians are perfect just the way they are, smoking their smelly cigars, proud of their mens pors and untrimmed bushy and meeting eyebrows? I make sure that I am a "Hagarag" in my old age, no gray without dyeing it (I Diet!), exercise daily, and a good clean life! I think that a lot of reforming is in order socially as well. Enough of the self-defeating division and enough of the clergy dictating behavior.

Most of the time it is the same with the Jews. Few children of the mixed marriage are raised as Christians. A notable exception was Barry Goldwater. Arlene Francis (Kazanjian's) son is a leader in the Jewish community.

Are Armenians going to go East or West? Are we going to become part of the Arab and Islamic world or are we going to go back to our Western and Christian roots?

If it were not of the dirty tactics of Karl Rove, McCain would have been the Republican nominee in 2000. Given the turmoil of the last years of the Clinton Adminstration and their political stupidity (Elian affair and meddling in Armenian Genocide Resolution just weeks before the election) MCain most probably would have become President. No doubt he would have HONESTLY gained the respect of about 70% of the American public by HONESTLY adhering to his principals. Instead we have this crew. I still wonder about what truly transpired on 9/11.

The wealthy and powerful usually get "so full of themselves." My father was born into immense wealth. At nine years old the "silver spoon" was yanked out of his mouth. At 14, he was doing manual labor to survive in a foreign land. He died young. Beria, an evil henchman of Stalin's (head of Secret Police) brutally murdered thousands, including many Armenians. He died on his knees begging for his life in a Soviet prison in late 1953. Anahid, THe passage you related from the Bible is a mistake. It is from a poor translation that has been carried down through he generations. The Aramic word for "rope" and "camel" were very similar. An early Greek monk, probably tired from transcribing for hours used the word "camel" by mistake. The passage should truly state "rope through the eye of a needle."

Anahid, I have added to my previous post. A "junior Pamuk" is one who believes in free speech and association in a society.

Anahid, The views you have expressed you make you a junior Pamuk. We SHOULD expect Turkey to believe in an open society, while working toward a free Armenia. If Mahaya Petrossian was living in Armenia her chances of marrying a Moslem would be lessened, yet she should still have that right if she so desired. The Armenian Church should not be a state religion. Other established religions should be able to practice there. Yes, I know that the Catholics have institutions established in northwestern Armenia and that Kurds and Yezidis practice thier religions freely there. But tearing down a historic building housing a scientific institution in Yerevan to build a state-sponsored Yerevan residence for the Catholicos is mixing church and state. Thanks for your open-minded approach. Armenians have been at the forefront of progressive movements in history only to be extinguished by the authorities be they Byzantine, Armenian nobles or Moslems. I do have some problems however with allowing the rabid evangelicals a free hand, because in my view they are not following the teachings of Jesus. Perhaps they show be honest that they are a political and not a religious movement. The bottom line is...how would Jesus act today? Do you think that these Evangelicals are acting anything like Christ would?

This is why I left LA. To work and slave to buy a home there and then slave every weekend to upgrade the home, only to have a jackass President (father of the present one in the White House) purposely destroy the real estate market in your neighborhood by means of his adminstration's inane economic policies. My father forgoed enjoying many things in life to save for his retirement, only to drop dead two months BEFORE his retirement date.

She could have immersed herself in Sufism but remained a Christian. This is very sad, because she will lose her identity. A large part of the Anatolian Turks are nothing more than Islamized Armenians. Do Christians have a chance in the Middle East and Iran region? Perhaps it is time for the Europeans to give the Muslims equal treatment, namely to make it uncomfortable for them to exist in Europe. What we have now is a double standard. Islamists make life almost impossible for Christians, while Erdogan goes around saying that Europe is a Chrisitan club, prejudiced against Moslems. Turkey is a Moslem Club. It annihilated the majority of its Christian population and makes the life of the few remnants impossible. When are they going to let Christian institutions keep their properties and fix their roofs? I am immersed in Buddhism but still consider myself a Christian, although since I am a Protestant some Armenians may consider me an apostate.

I guess he thinks that "Why should Armenia fear the "gentle Turks" who are so benevolent." Is he coming from the ozone layer? The problem is much more with the unreformed Turkish elephant than with NK or Azerbaijan.

I only have to look to what transpired to my own family to know that the Turks are full of BS. Deportation? I have only recently discovered the circumstances of the deaths of my grandfather, his brothers and my great-grandfather by the orders of an Ottoman official who considered Armenians "vermin." They were killed in the most primitive fashion. OYAK Launchs Investigation on Axa's Settlement By Reuters Published: Saturday, October 22, 2005 zaman.com In the aftermath of the French insurance giant, Axa's, agreement to settle a $17 million worth class-action suit filed by the inheritors of the Armenians, who died during the events of World War I, Axa's Turkey partner, Armed Forces Pension Fund (OYAK), issued a written announcement about the development. Part of the announcement read: "In full awareness of the ensuing public sensitivity the necessary assessments have been made and every possible conduct that reflects the public sentiment is being followed before Axa/France in the highest possible level and with determination. We have resolved to undertake what is necessary in conformity with the conclusion of our present undertakings." Zaman had placed the news of Reuters' report as the headline on October 14. The report indicated that Axa agreed to settle the case before the suit filed by the Armenians from California were concluded. According to this, the Armenians, who were forced to deport by the Ottoman state in 1915, are presented as victims of genocide. The reimbursement of $17 billion to those who inherited life insurance policies during that period is interpreted as a legal acknowledgement of the genocide. The lawyer of the plaintiff, Mark Geragos, described the settlement as an important building block in the path to make the US and Turkey acknowledge the genocide. The French company will pay $11 million from a fund formed to ensure the legal reimbursements to the heirs of the Armenians who had policies of the Axa Group affiliates that were active in the Ottoman territory before 1915; additionally the company will donate a few million dollars to Armenian charity organizations in France. The money will be shared among 5,000 people including charity organizations. Since 5 February 1999, the company operates in Turkey through Axa-OYAK, where each partner has a 50 percent share. The French company under the name of Nordstern prepared life insurance policy during Ottoman Empire. The Turkish public has sharply reacted against Axa’s payment to Armenians under the claim of genocide allegations. A wide range of the society including non governmental organizations (NGO), trade unions, political parties and faculty members reached a consensus. "This development is a conscious step to force Turkey to recognize the so-called Armenian genocide. OYAK should not remain silent in a topic for which the society is so sensitive and should end its partnership with Axa if needed." OYAK, the attitude of which is wondered, made an explanation about the issue after one week. The Fund's authorities noted an ongoing investigation about its partner's decision to pay indemnity to the heirs of Ottoman Armenians in the US. OYAK Administration emphasized no relation with the Axa payment decision. The company, however, informed that all the required evaluations were made and related initiatives, in the light of public sensitivity on the issue, have already been made in the presence of Axa in France. Axa operates in the US by its participations. There are also Armenians all around the world, in addition to those in the US, who sued the French company for compensation. Istanbul

What were the circumstances of this attack? A mistake? Stray bullets? Why did the the US troops fire upon his vehicle? We all know that the US troops are exhausted by the fact that they do not know who is their friend or foe. Meanwhile Bush and Company in Washington have been gorging themselves at Karl Rove's strategy-meetings accompanied with food orgies.

Great Armjan

The Turkish government is. so to speak, "digging its own grave" by challenging the book. Hopefully some screenwriter will make a movie out of it.

If you read the whole interview, you will see that he stated that he not retracting his previous statement. It is true that he never used the word "genocide" in the Swiss interview. This shows how "nuts" the Turkish judiciary is, as they are prosecuting him for saying that 1 million Armenians were killed there. Pamuk never said who killed them or how. Unfortunately, the Armenian press is proliferating the rattle of the spin doctors in Turkey and elsewhere.

This has all been discussed here many times before. Let us focus on improving Armenia's economic climate. The whole world knows that a Genocide occured. The Turks aren't fooling anyone anymore. What will happen now is the negotiation process. The issue is no longer whether a Genocide occured. The facts speak for themselves. Armenians, Assyrians, Chaldeans and Anatolian/Pontic Greeks were removed from their ancestral lands and /or killed. Turkey has to make amends for that. If Moslem citizens of Turkey have claims against Balkan nations they should pursue those claims. Turkey can no longer pass the buck on the actions of the Itthihadists and earlier actions.

My experience is a rare one among Armenians. We, as children, were somewhat spared the agony of knowing about the Genocide. We were raised as odars, with only the ravings of a traumatised grandmother (Genocide related condition) to break the silence and we knew instinctively that she was "not of right mind." When I became aware of the realities after college, I went through a period of intense anger, directly primarily toward Jews, a group with whom I had close ties throughout my early life. Young minds are very impressionable. Older minds reflect more. Perhaps Genocide education can be postponed until students are in the last years of high school.

Vava, A very intelligent great-grandfather of mine was able to survive and thrive in a very hostile environment by using his wits instead of being a hothead. Only when the Turkish leadership included those who considered Armenians "vermin" to be exterminated was he not able to win over his enemies. Our hotheads presently will only create problems for us.

Hey ArmoArmeN, You are not posting anything here that has not been posted before. We know the history backwards and forwards. Any well-read Armenian does. Now tell me what your posts will accomplish. Will it force Turkey to acknowledge what is well-documented? Will it shame Israel into supporting us? Will it make one iota of difference in the EU stance, already supporting us? No, it will just rile up some Armenians against Jews and get them to spew venom toward Jews.

Shanian just filed for divorce.

Typical Hollywood marriage! They are now seperated. Seems Tori fell into a tryst with the Canadian actor she had to kiss as part of her role in a movie. She and Charlie are trying to work things out.

...and this is how these bastards pay us back for the actions of one of ours? Reminds me of how Krikor Zohrab saved Talaat's life only to have Talaat order his execution.

Anahid, In my youth, I happened to meet a young woman of Armenian descent at a social gathering. Having been raised in a odar environment, I was not aware of her family. During our short relationship, I was informed by others about who she was and I became sort of uncomfortable with the relationship. She obviously liked me very much and wanted to continue the relationship. I told her, "you know I am a nobody." She replied that she did not feel that way and felt that I was a special kind of Armenian. The new found acquaintances that I had made discouraged me from continuing the relationship by embarrassing me, saying that I was interested in her family's money. Quite honestly, I grew up in an odar community where the Anglo-Saxon wealthy did not flaunt their money and mingled freely with all the classes. Being so young and coming from a different value-structure, I did not realize until later that the motives of these acquaintances were not genuine. This experience, among many others, has jaded me toward my own people. That is why many of Ara's writings ring so true for me.