Armenia Without Armenians?

[Arpa]

Armenia Without Armenians?

 

Ծուռ նստինք շիտակ խոսինք.

 

There is that nagging cliché that makes the rounds on and off.

I finally found the source. See paragraph below, taken from our fearless leader Garo’s “ground rules”. To see the entire entry click on the subject topic “Genocide” of this forum and click on FAQ. It may be a useful tool as to how behave in re the subject, i.e the matter is not subject to debate.

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The Turks had to deport the Armenians from the eastern war front where they were helping the Russians who promised them a homeland.

Armenians all over Anatolia, not just on the eastern war front, were wiped out. The cities of Yozgard, Sivas, Ceasrea, Hajin, Marash, and Adana -- just to name a few -- are hardly in the east. One needs but to look at a map of Turkey to see this. Turks depend on American ignorance of geography to make such foolish claims. Russia under the Tsars never offered the Armenians or any other subject peoples their freedom. The last tsar, Nicholas II, would not even share power with his own Russian people, which helped prompt the Russian revolution during World War I. {Russia even forbade Armenian refugees, who had managed to flee the Genocide, from returning to their lands, which the Russian armies had overran during the war.} Prince Lobanov-Rostovsky, foreign minister of Russia in 1895, summed it all up by saying, "Yes, Russia wants Armenia, but without the Armenians."

=========

 

When we first heard the tragic news of the devastating Earthquake in December of 1988, we were at the kitchen of the church preparing one thing or other. The news hit us like a ton of bricks. We were all crying, even grown up men. A good friend of mine, an American born impeccable Armenian in spirit, a successful businessman who does not speak a word of Armenian, knows Turkish though, a prominent benefactor in his own right, in deep frustration uttered these word; ”What the hell are those wretched people still doing over thee, that barren piece of rock, why don’t they all come here and forget the whole thing?”.

It hit me like a ton of bricks!

Is that the articulation of an “Armenia without Armenians”?

We all want an Armenia to exist, so that we can justify our declarations of being an Armenian and explain why our surnames end in -ian. But who will populate that “piece of rock”?

About that I also wrote an article that was printed in our weeklies titled “Armenia is a Foreign Country”. Of course, as you can expect I raised many an eyebrow. I’m sure you know what I meant. That God-forsaken country where half the population speaks Russian, the other half speaks that “funny” Armenian that is unintelligible to the average American born, where they may have a whole other concept of ethics and morality. I’ll make it short. You get the idea.

 

Shall we encourage the Syrian Armenians, the Lebanese Armenians, God forbid, the Yerevan Armenians and the Stepanakert Armenians to resettle in America just so we can mainatin and bolster and refresh our ranks?

 

Turks and Azeris will gladly repopuate what we vacate.

 

Beirut and Aleppo are a few miles from Yerevan, NY and LA are thousands of miles away.

 

Is that what “Armenia without Armenians” means??

Edited September 23, 2005 by Arpa

[karakash]

Armenia Without Armenians?

 

There is that nagging cliché that makes the rounds on and off.

I finally found the source. See paragraph below, taken from our fearless leader Garo’s “ground rules”. To see the entire entry click on the subject topic “Genocide”  of this forum and click on FAQ. It may be a useful tool as to how behave in re the subject, i.e the matter is not subject to debate.

====

The Turks had to deport the Armenians from the eastern war front where they were helping the Russians who promised them a homeland.

Armenians all over Anatolia, not just on the eastern war front, were wiped out. The cities of Yozgard, Sivas, Ceasrea, Hajin, Marash, and Adana -- just to name a few -- are hardly in the east. One needs but to look at a map of Turkey to see this. Turks depend on American ignorance of geography to make such foolish claims. Russia under the Tsars never offered the Armenians or any other subject peoples their freedom. The last tsar, Nicholas II, would not even share power with his own Russian people, which helped prompt the Russian revolution during World War I. {Russia even forbade Armenian refugees, who had managed to flee the Genocide, from returning to their lands, which the Russian armies had overran during the war.} Prince Lobanov-Rostovsky, foreign minister of Russia in 1895, summed it all up by saying, "Yes, Russia wants Armenia, but without the Armenians."

=========

 

When we first heard the tragic news of the devastating Earthquake in December of 1988, we were at the kitchen of the church preparing one thing or other. The news hit us like a ton of bricks. We were all crying, even grown up men. A good friend of mine, an American born impeccable Armenian in spirit, a successful businessman who does not speak a word of Armenian, knows Turkish though, a prominent benefactor in his own right, in deep frustration uttered these word; ”What the hell are those wretched people still doing over thee, that barren piece of rock, why don’t they all come here and forget the whole thing?”.

It hit me like a ton of bricks!

Is that the articulation of  an “Armenia without Armenians”?

We all want an Armenia to exist, so that we can justify our declarations of being an Armenian and  explain why our surnames end in -ian. But who will populate that “piece of rock”?

About that I also wrote an article that was printed in our weeklies titled “Armenia is a Foreign Country”. Of course, as you can expect I raised many an eyebrow. I’m sure you know what I meant. That God-forsaken country  where half the population speaks Russian, the other half speaks that “funny” Armenian that is unintelligible to the average American born, where they may have a whole other concept of  ethics and morality. I’ll make it short. You get the  idea.

 

Shall we encourage the Syrian Armenians, the Lebanese Armenians, God forbid, the Yerevan Armenians and the Stepanakert Armenians to resettle in America just so we can mainatin and bolster and refresh our ranks?

 

Turks and Azeris will gladly repopuate what we vacate.

 

Beirut and Aleppo are a few miles from Yerevan, NY and LA are thousands of miles away.

 

Is that what “Armenia without Armenians” means??

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

Definitely not. And I remember reading in a newspaper about an Armenian was saying that we shouldn't try to get the lands back because they are populated with Turks and that the current Armenian state would have more Turks in it than Armenians and somehow they would overtake the government... A far fetched notion. If anything, the Turks in those areas could be resettled having lived in occupied territories - borrowing language from the Arab Israeli conflict...

[Takoush]

Definitely not.  And I remember reading in a newspaper about an Armenian was saying that we shouldn't try to get the lands back because they are populated with Turks and that the current Armenian state would have more Turks in it than Armenians and somehow they would overtake the government...  A far fetched notion.  If anything, the Turks in those areas could be resettled having lived in occupied territories - borrowing language from the Arab Israeli conflict...

style_images/master/snapback.png

Yes Karakash agreed.

 

Don't worry about the enemy. We could all move in and move out the Turks in there having lived in occupied territories. They can very well resettle back in the Mongolian Turkmenistan where they came from 700 years ago.

Edited September 25, 2005 by Anahid Takouhi

[phantom22]

Yes Karakash agreed.

 

Don't worry about the enemy.  We could all move in and move out the Turks in there having lived in occupied territories.  They can very well resettle back in the Mongolian Turkmenistan where they came from 700 years ago.

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

Anahid,

 

The majority of those residing in the former Armenian-inhabited vilayets are Kurds, who have been living in the area just south from ancient times. As for the Anatolian Turks their Eastern genes have been long watered-down. They are the descendents of the people of the Anatolian region, as well as, Slavs who converted to Islam.

 

The real Turks from Central Asia now reside mainly in three former-Soviet Republics, who have excellent relations with Armenia, and in China.

[Dave]

Phantom22, most Turks don't accept that notion. They still relate themselves with the Turks of Central Asia. Pan-Turkism is still very popular, even though Turks have a lot of non-Turkish ancestors. If they lllove their Central Asian mongoloid ''brothers'' that much, why don't they go live with them?

 

Compare them to the Arabs, who abandoned Arabism a long time ago.

[Nazarian]

I don't know what you guys are smoking but no Diasporan Armenian is going to leave a cushy lifestyle to go and repopulate some Western Armenian (or Eastern Turkish - take your pick) lands.

 

There will definitely be few but not a lot of people.

[Dave]

Don't forget about Hamshentsi Armenians, and Islamicized Armenians who live in Western Armenia.

 

Better than nothing...

Edited October 1, 2005 by Dave

[DominO123]

Phantom22, most Turks don't accept that notion. They still relate themselves with the Turks of Central Asia. Pan-Turkism is still very popular, even though Turks have a lot of non-Turkish ancestors. If they lllove their Central Asian mongoloid ''brothers'' that much, why don't they go live with them?

 

Compare them to the Arabs, who abandoned Arabism a long time ago.

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

Central Asian mongoloid brothers love is not pan-Turkism but pan-Turanism, both are different concept. Pan-Turkism is still a dominant mentality in Turkey.

[gamavor]

It is very important to make every effort to boost the Armenian economy by active investments and also to make sure that the future of Armenia is to be democratic and liberal country.

 

With all the SHIT (excuse my french) that goes on in Europe and America, I won't be surprised to see Diaspora Armenians trying to re-settle in Armenia and why not in the occupied territories after Turkey becomes part of Europe.

 

I know an Armenian from Venezuela who has never been to Armenia, who recently purchased a one way ticket to Yerevan. Who knows?

[skhara]

There have to be opportunities though and there has to be awareness of them.

[Takoush]

It is very important to make every effort to boost the Armenian economy by active investments and also to make sure that the future of Armenia is to be democratic and liberal country.

 

With all the SHIT (excuse my french) that goes on in Europe and America, I won't be surprised to see Diaspora Armenians trying to re-settle in Armenia and why not in the occupied territories after Turkey becomes part of Europe.

 

I know an Armenian from Venezuela who has never been to Armenia, who recently purchased a one way ticket to Yerevan. Who knows?

I agree with you absolutely to boost the ROA's economy and by investing in it and of course I've always thought that the best thing for us is to be a democratic and a liberal country.

 

Gamavor you speak entirely my very heart. Yes sereeeeeeee I would love to hear and see it happening all of the things you said. I am all with you pal.

Edited October 20, 2005 by Anahid Takouhi

[Takoush]

I don't know what you guys are smoking but no Diasporan Armenian is going to leave a cushy lifestyle to go and repopulate some Western Armenian (or Eastern Turkish - take your pick) lands.

 

There will definitely be few but not a lot of people.

We can calculate and recalculate now, but when the time comes that it ever happens, believe me there will be a great many Armenians that will follow course and go to their homelands. Although many years ago in 1918 through 1921 when Armenia was free for that short period of time, both my father and my grandfather used to say that a great many very wealthy Armenians already started investing in Armenia and numerous more Armenians already started moving back to our little old Armenia that was free then, today's ROA. Yes, now Armenia is little yet, but when it becomes bigger and larger and a great many prosperous land is ours to have, many will thrive and will want to live in their anscestral lands. We are only talking now, but if it materializes one day and I pray and hope one day that it will be during my lifetime; then better things will happen, you'll see. I still have great many hopes and faith in Armenians and for our Armenia.

Edited October 20, 2005 by Anahid Takouhi

[Takoush]

Phantom22, most Turks don't accept that notion. They still relate themselves with the Turks of Central Asia. Pan-Turkism is still very popular, even though Turks have a lot of non-Turkish ancestors. If they lllove their Central Asian mongoloid ''brothers'' that much, why don't they go live with them?

 

Compare them to the Arabs, who abandoned Arabism a long time ago.

Yes Dave. I totally agree with you. Turks throughout centuries until today they only and solely see themselves as having a Turkmenistan Empire starting from Europe through Central Asia, that is Turkmenistan where they came from originally. All they wanted and still want to do is joining their brothers and of the notion of creating a Pan-Turkism or a Pan-Turkmenistan Empire. Turks never and will not change ever. Some of us, unfortunately wish for a better Turkey. When will we ever learn that it will never happen. Turkey and Turks, whether they are mixed with us or Europeans will NEVER CHANGE their mentality and their ways. THEY ARE AND WILL BE THE SAME TURKS.

Edited October 20, 2005 by Anahid Takouhi

[Eloren]

I don't know what you guys are smoking but no Diasporan Armenian is going to leave a cushy lifestyle to go and repopulate some Western Armenian (or Eastern Turkish - take your pick) lands.

 

There will definitely be few but not a lot of people.

 

 

Good day to you all, I am new here and been reading a little while at work

 

Now i have to react to this remark.

 

I won't lie, i was one of those who were never thinking of leaving this cosy life i live to go to Armenia.

But i was thinking this without ever going to Armenia. I was just reading/listening around me that Armenia was a poor country blabla..

 

Last week, i went for the first time in Armenia. I cannot express the feeling i had.. I could talk about it all day crying with joy.. It was AMAZING!

 

And i have now decided to gather more information and if everything looks ok, I have decided to leave the country i work in to go settle in Armenia.. Buy a land and start something.

 

All this to say that the feeling you have while you are in your Homeland can make you easily forget the cosy (boring) life you live elsewhere.

Armenia IS a poor country, but it is starting to develop at a very fast pace. And I think it will become a part of the EU within 10-15 years so could be a good thing to pack up and start to invest there.

 

I have made my choice and i hope many more still think like me

 

Hatchoghutchiun tsez