The Situation In Lebanon

[Sassun]

Hey,

What do you all think of the situation in Lebanon , particularly after the Syrian withdrawal / the July war / string of explosions and assassinations / Fateh al Islam (Nahr el Bared camp events ) & now Ain el Helwe events ?

 

There was an explosion a while ago in a suburb of Beirut / Sedd el Bouchrieh , it was a bomb in a bus .

 

Who do you think is behind these acts ? is it only one party involved or more than one ?

 

I think it is USA & Israel . i think this is their revenge for not being able to win the war in the summer , and now they are bringing the 'war' to the streets of Beirut .

 

One thing is for sure , these bombings are not the work of amateurs , and while I would not consider Syria to be an angel , i do not think they are able to put such 'perfect' finishing touches on bombings . this is the work of intelligence agents , and we all know about the jokes made at Syrian intelligence agents lol. ..

 

anyway it is pretty scary , i have been around at least 2 such explosions .

people are afraid to go anywhere except to work or to school , and the roads are getting emptier by the day !!!

 

and also if you would like , it'd be interesting to discuss the new resolution 1757 and what its implications are for international law , because it is obvious that it is a mockery of int'l law . a professor in int'l law , who is by no means politically biased , who studied the resolution 1757 , told me that it is unimaginable what is in there . that this is an unprecedented blow to the UN .

 

what do you think of it all ?

[Sassun]

The text of the UN resolution 1757

 

UN1757.pdf

[abass80]

unfortunately after these last events Lebanon's future doesn't look that good! the decisive blow was delivered last summer by Israel, who destroyed everything that Lebanese people had build after the end of the civil war! using a stupid pretext to start last years war, Israel showed that it will never allow a country next to it develop in any way!

 

as for who is behind the last attack, i think that the US and Israel are the most likely suspects!

 

after i read in the news last week that the US sent six planes full of weapons to the Lebanese government in order to "fight the islamist rebels" i started suspecting that things will go much worse in Lebanon! because there is no way that those arms were sent in order to be used against some doznes of palestinian militants in some god forsaken refugee camps! i believe that these arms were sent in order to be used against Hezballah. (i read a while ago that the US will sent more weapons to the Lebanese government after these last events)

 

for Israel the only threat at the moment in the arab world is Hezballah! last year they proved a worthy opponent! wouldn't it be extremely convenient for Israel if the Lebanese started fighting each other again? the threat from palestinians and Hezballah from Lebanon would be gone!

 

however i have to say that the Lebanese ppl are also to be blamed because they are not united! after everything that has happened to them, they still haven't realized that other countries are interfering in their affairs to these extend, because they allow them to!

there is no national sentiment in the country, only sectarian, and this is where everything starts from!

 

as for the UN resolution it worths nothing, solves nothing and it is not worth saying anything about it! togh arnen yev ch@sem our tnen!

[annannimusss]

Very simply put, the oppostion needs to shut the Hell up hey want to change everything for the negative way or there way. I was happy Michele Aoun came then he goes and turns on Hariri at the last second. Syria leaving was good but the people seem to be suffering more now. The Yahoodis can go to hell after what they did to Lebanon for the 50 million billionth time.

 

The Hariri tribunal thing is good, even though Hariri tried to buy all the Christian land, how he was killed was not right and they should try the people who did it.

 

Hell there was even a grenade attack in my dad's hometown of Zahle, why they would attack the city no one knows other than to piss off the all Christian population.

 

I wish I new who is doing all this crap, maybe Mossad maybe Syria, no one knows.

[Sassun]

Sako

It was not Michel Aoun who turned against Hariri.. please read what happened during the elections... Aoun ran in the Mount Lebanon by himself and swept through the polls ... in Beirut he boycotted because the 2000 electoral law was designed in such a way to make Christian representation in Beirut dependent on Sunni votes ... Actually it is Aoun who never changed his position , whereas everyone else , including Hezb Allah , supported Hariri , Jumblatt, etc. ... Hezb Allah got their answer last summer , while the israelis were killing thousands of people , the people that had come to power by Hezb Allah supporters' votes were barking against Hezb Allah and preventing trucks of rockets and weapons from reaching South Lebanon DURING the fighting . Ironic , isn't it ?

Well , I agree the opposition thing has not worked out ( I was 'camping' in downtown Beirut btw w/ the Hezb Allah guys ) but you have to understand that after what happened in the summer , there is no way that HezbAllah will agree on anything other than a formula whereby the people it trusts (based on their behavior in the July war ) are given more share (their fair share , if it were not for the 2000 election law which the Syrians had crafted with Jumblatt's & Hariri's approval & collaboration !!! ) ...

[AK-47]

Guys, there is only one entity that benefits from turmoil in Lebanon and that is Իսրայէլ: Do you guys honestly believe Syria could have killed Hariri? LOL. It is not a co-incidence that every time there is turmoil in Lebanon, it happens in the summer. It is to weaken Lebanon economically (politically, it is already veryyy weak). Summer = tourists and if you scare off the tourists, the average American will say, "oh damn, Lebanon has a war...oh wait what's this country next to it? Իսրայէլ? Let's go there!!!" More money for its southern enemy. Back to Hariri; Syria was the ultimate loser in Hariri's death. It is not logical for it to have killed him... it is either that the Syrian government or Mukhabarat are a bunch of incompetent idiots or that it was another country that killed Hariri. Syria was the loser at it lost a big part of it's influence in Lebanon (troops withdrawal, Cedar revolution). And as if Lebanese politics was not already complicated and divided, this made it even bigger. Only one country gained and continues to gain from all this turmoil. Take a wild guess.

 

This so-called "Fatah al-Islam" is a Judeo-American-Saudi creation that was gonna be used as a counter-balance to Shi'a Hizb Allah. Unfortunately for them, the Lebanese army took a stand and is trying to "mop the floor". Hizb Allah and its competent leader, Nasrallah has realized this and has played the chess game really well. It knows Fatah Islam is like a counter-balance to it yet they are fellow Muslims and he opposes the Lebanese government. So he has played as a de-facto neutral person who is winning the hearts of population with its support of the army and at the same time is trying to make sure the Lebanese army is "not too rough" on the Palestinians.

 

Bottom line is anyway that Lebanon is and will be the "wrestling ring" of the ME and year after year, there will be a new problem around summertime to weaken it because a united and peaceful Lebanon is a strong, a la Europe, Lebanon. It was once called the "Switzerland of the ME".

[Dave]

after i read in the news last week that the US sent six planes full of weapons to the Lebanese government in order to "fight the islamist rebels" i started suspecting that things will go much worse in Lebanon! because there is no way that those arms were sent in order to be used against some doznes of palestinian militants in some god forsaken refugee camps! i believe that these arms were sent in order to be used against Hezballah. (i read a while ago that the US will sent more weapons to the Lebanese government after these last events)

 

I doubt that the Lebanese government would ever deliver the first strike against Hezballah, because Hezballah is Lebanese, whilst Fatah al-Islam and Jund al-Sham aren't. These 2 terrorist groups don't even serve the Palestinian cause, unlike Hezballah. They don't represent all Palestinian refugees either. Fatah al-Islam merely wants to impose Shariah in the Palestinian camps and Jund al-Sham means "Soldiers of Greater Syria", which gives you an idea of how much they care for the liberation of Palestine.

[ArmoPhil]

I oppose what Hizbollah is doing. You can have your own political party, why have your own Army? Lebanon is ruined because of them. Hezbollah should disarm it's militia and continue the things smoothly. I can basically connect this to what happened with the NSDAP. Hitler had an Army of it's own and when he got power, he destroyed the parlement and took over as "The Leader" disregarding that his party was minority. We've seen it happen, it can happen again. It is the responsibility of the people of Lebanon to fight back the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon.

[Dave]

But Hezballah is the people of Lebanon.

The Lebanese army would never have been able to take on Israel on its own, because it's not strong enough. Lebanon can't just suffer the consequences of losing. The main advantage that Hezballah has over the conventional Lebanese army is that it is an easily maneuverable small, but tough guerrilla force.

 

Only Israel's actions are comparable to those of the Nazis.

[ArmoPhil]

But Hezballah is the people of Lebanon.

The Lebanese army would never have been able to take on Israel on its own, because it's not strong enough. Lebanon can't just suffer the consequences of losing. The main advantage that Hezballah has over the conventional Lebanese army is that it is an easily maneuverable small, but tough guerrilla force.

 

Only Israel's actions are comparable to those of the Nazis.

And you think Hezbollah's army is stronger than the IDF? Remember the Yum Kippur War. Israel was attacked "from the back" and they yet got to win the war. The IDF can own any military in the middle east. The media is just showing the Jews dying to show how the Arabs are bad and all. But if you see what really is happening, Hezbollah got owned in the war.

[Dave]

If that was true Israel would have still been in Southern Lebanon, but it isn't so, because Hezballah successfuly defended it.

[ArmoPhil]

If that was true Israel would have still been in Southern Lebanon, but it isn't so, because Hezballah successfuly defended it.

I personally don't know if Israel still has control of Southern Lebanon or not, but all I can say is, the IDF is stronger than any other Middle Eastern Country's military. Not only that they are allied to the Americans, but they are also member of the NATO.

[ArmoPhil]

Lebanon is also lucky NATO didn't interfere in Hezbolla-Israel issue.

[annannimusss]

Sassun, No Aoun ran with the Tashnags and got raped in the election by the Ramgavars and the Hunchags in the Armenian districts.And the Tashags did voter intimidation and all in Bourch Hamoud and they won there. For the first time ever the Ramgavars won a seat in Lebanon, and the reason was that they were allied with Hariri.

 

And Mr.Sassun, guess who he ran with Franjieh in Tripoili and with Karami, both pro Syrian guys, don't defend people who defend Syria and are with them. Your grandparents were not in Zahle getting shelled by the Syrians for an unimaginable amount of time.

 

Just for you Mr. Hezbollah is a video of what happened in Zahle, the Brave Kataeb defended Zahle with their lives.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdWIdUVunoc

 

 

Hezbollah, this organization wants to control Lebanon and the Christians and Sunnis don't like them, simple as that. They along with the Yahoodis are responsible for putting Lebanon back Ten years ago.

 

Again you are a turncoat to your people, you might as well join Hezbollah and get it over with. I can't belive I am hearing a person defend Hezbollah.

 

Dave Hezbollah is not a group of the people they, are just a bunch of thugs who destabilize Lebanon.

Edited June 5, 2007 by SakoPasha

[Shahan Araradian]

Guys, there is only one entity that benefits from turmoil in Lebanon and that is Իսրայէլ: Do you guys honestly believe Syria could have killed Hariri? LOL. It is not a co-incidence that every time there is turmoil in Lebanon, it happens in the summer. It is to weaken Lebanon economically (politically, it is already veryyy weak). Summer = tourists and if you scare off the tourists, the average American will say, "oh damn, Lebanon has a war...oh wait what's this country next to it? Իսրայէլ? Let's go there!!!" More money for its southern enemy. Back to Hariri; Syria was the ultimate loser in Hariri's death. It is not logical for it to have killed him... it is either that the Syrian government or Mukhabarat are a bunch of incompetent idiots or that it was another country that killed Hariri. Syria was the loser at it lost a big part of it's influence in Lebanon (troops withdrawal, Cedar revolution). And as if Lebanese politics was not already complicated and divided, this made it even bigger. Only one country gained and continues to gain from all this turmoil. Take a wild guess.

 

This so-called "Fatah al-Islam" is a Judeo-American-Saudi creation that was gonna be used as a counter-balance to Shi'a Hizb Allah. Unfortunately for them, the Lebanese army took a stand and is trying to "mop the floor". Hizb Allah and its competent leader, Nasrallah has realized this and has played the chess game really well. It knows Fatah Islam is like a counter-balance to it yet they are fellow Muslims and he opposes the Lebanese government. So he has played as a de-facto neutral person who is winning the hearts of population with its support of the army and at the same time is trying to make sure the Lebanese army is "not too rough" on the Palestinians.

 

Bottom line is anyway that Lebanon is and will be the "wrestling ring" of the ME and year after year, there will be a new problem around summertime to weaken it because a united and peaceful Lebanon is a strong, a la Europe, Lebanon. It was once called the "Switzerland of the ME".

Yes. Hariri's assassination was a failed attempt by Zionists (who've also hijacked the American State Department) to create a revolution of Lebanese against Syrians and to provide a pretext to attack Syria. (Guess who killed Elie Hobeika a few years earlier with a similar massive carbomb. Yeah, that same guy who was about to testify in the Hague against the Israeli war time criminal Ariel Sharon in his commanding of the Israeli armed and allied Lebanese militia.)

 

Now that we know what extents Zionists will go to to destroy their neighbors and their lack of respect for other human beings (for their own selfish needs), expect that in the future the old enemies of Zionism and the new-found enemies of Zionism (the Lebanese people, including Armenian Lebanese) will deal with the SAME lack of humanity toward their Zionist aggressor who have taken their livelihood away.

 

Word on the street in the Middle East has it that the Zionist state won't exist in 50 years. As the destructive potential of weapons available to individuals and irregular armies increases, the Zionist state only stands to lose, unless they start changing their tactics and start treating their neighbors as HUMANS like they are -- or perhaps they are not. Nothing stands in the way of a man fending for his own home; not even a Zionist, especially when the Lebanese have learned how "dirty" the Zionists play.

 

For a peaceful Middle East, Zionism must be destroyed ASAP in the Middle East, just as Nazism was destroyed in Germany for a more peaceful Europe.

Edited June 5, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Shahan Araradian]

Dave Hezbollah is not a group of the people they, are just a bunch of thugs who destabilize Lebanon.

LOL. For your info, much of Hezbollah's fighters are professionals by day (shop owners, dentists, etc.) and fedayis by night and weekend. How can you stand against a man defending his own homeland?

[Shahan Araradian]

And you think Hezbollah's army is stronger than the IDF? Remember the Yum Kippur War. Israel was attacked "from the back" and they yet got to win the war. The IDF can own any military in the middle east. The media is just showing the Jews dying to show how the Arabs are bad and all. But if you see what really is happening, Hezbollah got owned in the war.

Did you miss Hezbollah's anti-tank missiles penetrating (owning) the Merkava tanks? I guess it depends what "media" you're watching. I personally prefer Al Jazeera over the Zionist Wolf Blitzer's CNN.

 

If you're going to watch propaganda, at least choose it wisely!

[Shahan Araradian]

I oppose what Hizbollah is doing. You can have your own political party, why have your own Army?

Because only a people's army, a VOLUNTEER army that is STRONGLY BONDED can defend one's own homeland. The Lebanese Army is not as tightly bonded as the Hezbollah. Hence Hezbollah's success rate and control and popularity among their people.

 

Lebanon is ruined because of them.

Lebanon was liberated because of them. Wait a couple of more years until Hezbollah develops or acquires some Surface to Air missiles and you'll never see an Israeli war plane over Lebanon again. (They seem to have their anti-tank defenses up to speed...)

 

Hezbollah should disarm it's militia and continue the things smoothly. I can basically connect this to what happened with the NSDAP. Hitler had an Army of it's own and when he got power, he destroyed the parlement and took over as "The Leader" disregarding that his party was minority.

You're comparing Hitler and Nazism to a VOLUNTEER army??? a volunteer and socialist political and welfare organization?

 

We've seen it happen, it can happen again. It is the responsibility of the people of Lebanon to fight back the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon.

Hezbollah is PART of the Lebanese people.

[Armenak]

My parents both have very strong [opposing] views on these issues and often get into little arguments over them. Arguments over two countries, thousands of miles away where they have not been since the 1970s.

[annannimusss]

Shop owners huh,hmm, people who went ahead attacked a supperior military and caused the death of 1,000 people and still counting are not normal people,they are not defending the land. Belive me I was cheering them on in the summer,but what they got out of it was not worth the deaths of 1,000 plus people, and the destruction of there country. They need to disband the military wing of the party and stop supporting Syria. Syria is the enemy and Israel is the enemy, Lebanon is in a shitty situation, a situation like Armenia, two countries on either side who hate them.

 

 

A group of the people huh, they have a few hundred thousand people in the streets protesting, Hariri has over a million. Remember when Nassrallah said he was goin to get a million people in the street and he only got a few hundred thousand showed up. Then Hariri gets over a million. Hmm which is more, 300,000 or a million plus.

 

And I get my news from:

 

http://web.naharnet.com/default.asp

Edited June 5, 2007 by SakoPasha

[Shahan Araradian]

Shop owners huh,hmm, people who went ahead attacked a supperior military and caused the death of 1,000 people and still counting are not normal people,they are not defending the land.

People die in wars of existence or liberation. Armenians gave 1.5 million in their struggle for simple existence.

 

Belive me I was cheering them on in the summer,but what they got out of it was not worth the deaths of 1,000 plus people, and the destruction of there country.

They got wisdom and experience. Now they know how the Israeli army's tactics. With battle training (and against an enemy unwilling to send its troops on the ground) the Hezbollah is even more prepared for the next Israeli onslaught.

 

They need to disband the military wing of the party and stop supporting Syria.

No. They don't need to do anything other than to live and to die. I will let Hezbollah and their supporters decide what they need to do; only the Hezbollah knows what's best for them. Would you like a Nigerian to tell what your Ramgavar party should do be doing in Armenia?

 

A group of the people huh, they have a few hundred thousand people in the streets protesting, Hariri has over a million. Remember when Nassrallah said he was goin to get a million people in the street and he only got a few hundred thousand showed up. Then Hariri gets over a million. Hmm which is more, 300,000 or a million plus.

Numbers don't count. It's organization of numbers that counts. If there are 1 million lazy Christian Lebanese who don't have the balls to pick up arms and fight Israel but 300,000 Hezbollah do, then guess who gets the respect?

 

If you're not willing to defend and fight to the death for your own homeland (to kill and to sacrifice), then you won't keep that land for very long... It's the rule of the jungle. It's a battle of wills and egos. When confronted with such barbarians as the Zionists (or Turks), Success/Winning/Survival is the sole judge of right or wrong.

Edited June 5, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Armenak]

Sassun, my grandmother's sister lives in Tripoli and she told us that she is getting by just fine. She's been sipping surj and said it's business as usual.

[Dave]

Lebanese Christians are some of the greatest victims of Israeli propaganda, through pro-Zionist channels such as the LBC. During the 2006 war, my aunt even got a taste of the IDF's propaganda through her phone in an automatized message, telling her that she'll be safe since she's in a Christian area blablabla...

 

The truth is that Israel only cares for its own interests, and there were strikes in Christian areas as well. There would have been more if there were no Western tourists around.

Edited June 5, 2007 by Dave

[Accelerated]

*sigh* - Lebanese politics...takes the mental capacity of the entire Lebanese population to understand wtf is going on. Makes sense I guess.

[Sassun]

Wow... my internet was down and look how far the discussion has gone already lol...

 

unfortunately after these last events Lebanon's future doesn't look that good! the decisive blow was delivered last summer by Israel, who destroyed everything that Lebanese people had build after the end of the civil war! using a stupid pretext to start last years war, Israel showed that it will never allow a country next to it develop in any way!

Agreed. In fact: people always say that Syria is behind all the bombings based on the fact that Bashar al Assad had said that he would burn Lebanon when he exits it or something like that, but I have always maintained that it can be -- and probably is -- Israel & USA (or even Saudi Arabia , or all of them together , birds of a feather flock together sound familiar .... ? ) . cos if we are going to argue based on what people said , then didn't israel say last summer that it will turn Lebanon's clock back by 20 years ? so everything that has been happening ever since , can be attributed to Israel by the same logic ?? when i say this to people they look at me and go " but but ... that's different " ...

 

after i read in the news last week that the US sent six planes full of weapons to the Lebanese government in order to "fight the islamist rebels" i started suspecting that things will go much worse in Lebanon! because there is no way that those arms were sent in order to be used against some doznes of palestinian militants in some god forsaken refugee camps! i believe that these arms were sent in order to be used against Hezballah. (i read a while ago that the US will sent more weapons to the Lebanese government after these last events)

Well it is clear that Fateh al Islam and other Salafi groups , Jund al Sham, Usbat al Ansar , and so on ,as well as the Salafi groups OUTSIDE the camps (Tripoli/North Lebanon is btw Salafiland, i do not dare go there , for fear of being lynched ) are funded by Hariri family and Saudi Arabia . Jund al Sham are known in Ain el Helwe refugee camp as "Jund al Sitt" , Jund al Sitt Bahiya al Hariri (Rafiq Hariri's sister ) . Actually , not only her and her family and the current Leb. government, but also Bandar bin Sultan seems to have a hand in the recent events in Lebanon . it is clear that these 'militants ' have a lot of training and a lot of means at their disposal , they have cannons and artilleries even .. i know the Lebanese army's capabilities since I have served you know what the Lebanese army considers an order for shipment of "military equipment "? ... *drumroll * office supplies. I kid you not. if the u.s is arming the lebanese army so it will fight against Hezb Allah , then i can only laugh out loud ... weapons are for those who know how to use them (we only learned how to load & shoot ) . and weapons are for those who are willing to put themselves in the line of fire and not run away ( or serve tea ) . Hezb Allah ? it can eliminate the entire Lebanese army in a matter of 1 hour . thousands of army soldiers , with helicopters , indiscriminate shelling of the camp , artillery fire , tanks , etc., are unable to get rid of 200 fighters who do not even seem to have much discipline (unlike Hezb Allah ) . is USA hallucinating ??? i would not rule that out. for someone who thought iraq was a piece of cake , and that hezb Allah would be wiped out , USA seems to be sinking in its hallucinations .

 

for Israel the only threat at the moment in the arab world is Hezballah! last year they proved a worthy opponent! wouldn't it be extremely convenient for Israel if the Lebanese started fighting each other again? the threat from palestinians and Hezballah from Lebanon would be gone!

Yeah , i agree except for the threat from Palestinians -- did you mean Palestinians in Lebanon ? they are not a threat to Israel , at all -- they are a nuisance in that they remind israel from time to time that thy are still there and want to return ... which brings us to the issue of settling the refugees in Lebanon .. there are quite a few juicy conspiracy theories making the rounds , that the purpose of this entire fiasco is to settle the refugees in Lebanon . how would that be done ? by destroying some of the camps and ingathering the Palestinians in a few locations (right now Beddawi camp has swollen to twice its population size , and if Ain el Helwe meets the same fate , probably the same thing will happen in nearby South Lebanon camps ) . this would explain USA's willingness to provide the army with shells (to destroy the camp with indiscriminate fire , which is what they are doing right now , more than 70% of the camp has been pretty much made unfit to reside in ... ) . this could be part of a plan for cantonization / federalization of Lebanon in which the Palestinians would hve their own canton or would enable the Sunnis to have their cantons in otherwise predominantly Shiite areas , which is what Jumblatt & Geagea have publicly called for (and are working on ). the pattern of bombings and intended targets also give credence to this argument .

 

however i have to say that the Lebanese ppl are also to be blamed because they are not united! after everything that has happened to them, they still haven't realized that other countries are interfering in their affairs to these extend, because they allow them to!

there is no national sentiment in the country, only sectarian, and this is where everything starts from!

Well said. but you cannot blame all sides for refusing unity , because , how can you unite with someone who has sold his soul to another country (Saudi Arabia / Israel / USA ) ?? Even if you would love to be united , how can you ? it is counter-productive to "unite " with those who do not care about unity ! besides the fact that you disagree with their orientation of course ! but i agree that sectarian sentiment stands behind almost all of Lebanese politics.

 

as for the UN resolution it worths nothing, solves nothing and it is not worth saying anything about it! togh arnen yev ch@sem our tnen!

LOL. kezi otanavi ticket muh bidi gdrem vorbeszi kas Lipanan yev Hariri endanikin yev irents hamagirneroon ayt verchin nakhatasootyoone esses . Shad g papakim desnel irents temkin ardahaydootyoone , hagarag anor vor urish mege anbayman asge arach aytbes pan muh esadz ellaloo e.