Iran Supports Armenia And Artsakh

[Iran Forever]

We Iranians support Armenia and Artsakh. Azerbaijan is an enemy to both of us, and as an Iranian I am very HAPPY there is an Armenia to neutralize Azerbaijan. Turkic history is fake...the only thing real about Turks' history is centuries of sacking, pillaging, conquering other people's lands, etc. Now Azerbaijan Republic is making ludicrous claims to northern IRAN, calling northern Iran "South Azerbaijan" implying that "South Azerbaijan" is just another province of Azerbaijan Republic...they are also inciting Iran's ethnic Azerbaijanis, and calling upon them to revolt, secede and separate from Iran, taking 35 percent of Iranian land with them and joining the Republic of Azerbaijan.

[phantom22]

The Azeris claim that IRAN is on their side Re: Artsakh.

 

We Iranians support Armenia and Artsakh. Azerbaijan is an enemy to both of us, and as an Iranian I am very HAPPY there is an Armenia to neutralize Azerbaijan. Turkic history is fake...the only thing real about Turks' history is centuries of sacking, pillaging, conquering other people's lands, etc. Now Azerbaijan Republic is making ludicrous claims to northern IRAN, calling northern Iran "South Azerbaijan" implying that "South Azerbaijan" is just another province of Azerbaijan Republic...they are also inciting Iran's ethnic Azerbaijanis, and calling upon them to revolt, secede and separate from Iran, taking 35 percent of Iranian land with them and joining the Republic of Azerbaijan.

[Iran Forever]

The Azeris claim that IRAN is on their side Re: Artsakh.

Phantom, I can promise you and give you full guarantees that Iran is NOT on Azerbaijan's side...WE HATE the Republic of Azerbaijan...here is the dilemma that the Iranian government faces however. Azerbaijan Republic is a SHI'ITE Muslim country like Iran...and Iran's SHI'ITE theocracy cannot openly support Armenia's position on Karabagh vis-a-vis Azerbaijan without embarrassing itself, since the Iranian government which is a Shi'ite theocracy has always tried to portray itself as a portrayer of Shi'ites throughout the world, whether in Lebanon or in Iraq.

 

However, actions speak louder than words. While Iran is forced to publicly say that she supports Azerbaijan's position, and publicly declare that Armenia is "occupying" Artsakh, Iran is the number one conduit for sending goods into Artsakh...Iran has sustained the Karabakh enclave with most of its energy needs, as well as goods. Truckloads of Iranian goods pass through the Iran-Armenia border and into Karabakh every day.

 

I hope you understand this.

[Sassun]

Please keep in mind that other than the Shi'ite element there is also the national element/interest, and for Iran it is also a "problem" of its Azeri minority, which would (it fears) be encouraged to secede by fresh fighting over Karabakh/Artsakh, given the rise of nationalist feelings and consciousness, and also the fact that this could be used by Iran's #1 enemy at the moment, USA...

[Iran Forever]

Phantom, I can promise you and give you full guarantees that Iran is NOT on Azerbaijan's side...WE HATE the Republic of Azerbaijan...here is the dilemma that the Iranian government faces however. Azerbaijan Republic is a SHI'ITE Muslim country like Iran...and Iran's SHI'ITE theocracy cannot openly support Armenia's position on Karabagh vis-a-vis Azerbaijan without embarrassing itself, since the Iranian government which is a Shi'ite theocracy has always tried to portray itself as a protector of Shi'ites throughout the world, whether in Lebanon or in Iraq.

 

However, actions speak louder than words. While Iran is forced to publicly say that she supports Azerbaijan's position, and publicly declare that Armenia is "occupying" Artsakh, Iran is the number one conduit for sending goods into Artsakh...Iran has sustained the Karabakh enclave with most of its energy needs, as well as goods. Truckloads of Iranian goods pass through the Iran-Armenia border and into Karabakh every day.

 

I hope you understand this.

[Iran Forever]

Please keep in mind that other than the Shi'ite element there is also the national element/interest, and for Iran it is also a "problem" of its Azeri minority, which would (it fears) be encouraged to secede by fresh fighting over Karabakh/Artsakh, given the rise of nationalist feelings and consciousness, and also the fact that this could be used by Iran's #1 enemy at the moment, USA...

Ahlayn beek ya habibi! How are things in Lebanon? Chou fee jdeed? Keef sa7tak?

 

You said it best my friend. We have 26 million Azeris in Iran (the Republic of Azerbaijan has only 8 million people, one million of which are Talysh, non-Azeris who are linguistically, culturally and ethnically related to Persians, and who are also Shi'ites like Iranians and Azeris). So you see, we have twice as many as Azerbaijan Republic itself. Now, Azeris themselves inflate this number to 35 million Iranian Azeris! Nonetheless, the Baku regime has continuously funded, supported and recruited Iranian Azeri separatists and secessionists. Here are some websites by Iranian Azeri separatists which are full of LIES. Both are "MADE IN REPUBLIC OF AZERBAIJAN" or as one might say, "PRODUCT of the REPUBLIC OF AZERBAIJAN"...The first one belongs to Mahmoudali Chehreganli, an Iranian Azeri in the loyal service of the CIA and Mossad: http://www.gamoh.org/ (Click on the word English for the English version) and here is another one by Piruz Dilenchi, another Iranian Azeri separatist whose real name is Ali Ismailifirouz: http://www.azerbaijanonline.biz/ (again click on English for the English version).

 

So yes, this is another reason Iran cannot publicly support Armenia against Azerbaijan over Artsakh, since we would be risking revolt in our Azeri provinces, and Iran has to publicly feign support for Azerbaijan, and publicly "condemn Armenia's occupation of Karabakh". Behind the scenes though, Iran's support IS and always will be, for Armenia and Karabakh's Armenian people.

[Sip]

We Iranians support Armenia and Artsakh. ...

 

Just curious ... what position do you hold with the Iranian government?

[Iran Forever]

Sip, I do not like the current Iranian government for several reasons. Number one, the concept of having a Supreme Leader like Ayatollah Ali Khamenei (ethnic Azerbaijani by the way) is a heresy in Shi'ite Islam...only 10 percent of Shi'ite ulema accept this, and even Ayatollah Sistani (Iranian origin) of Iraq, has rejected this heretical mixture of religion and politics. Secondly, the Iranian Constitution is a joke. Supreme Leader Khamenei who is unelected can override the decisions of any democratically-elected President. Thirdly, while I am vehemently pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel and anti-Zionist, the Palestinian-Israeli issue is not a priority for Iran, and Ahmadinejad's obsession with a conflict that is going on 1, 000 miles west of our capital city of Tehran, and 700 miles away from our western border does not make any sense. His denial of the Holocaust was plain stupid, since this, like the Armenian Genocide, is a well documented fact (just as the Palestinian Diaspora created by Zionism is a well-documented fact). Furthermore, Iran does not have to recognize Israel, but publicly calling for it to be liquidated and wiped off the map has hurt us a great deal, and put us at odds with the West. I do not favor relations between Israel and Iran, since Israel still occupies East Jerusalem and is Judaizing Christian and Muslim holy places over there, and is mistreating the Palestinians. Also, such relations would be premature when Israel has not yet made peace with other countries in the region (including immediate neighbors such as Lebanon and Syria), and once again relations with Israel are not a priority for Iran either, just as getting heavily involved in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict isn't. But I also am against Israel for supporting Azerbaijan (and Turkey)...both are enemies of Iran deep down inside, particularly Azerbaijan.

 

That said, ALL Iranians regardless of whether they like the current government of Iran or not, stand by them when it comes to the territorial integrity of Iran...Iran does not belong to them alone, it belongs to ALL the Iranian people. Now our Azerbaijanis, who are among the stupidest citizens we have, are very well integrated in Iranian society, but they are suckers for Baku propaganda. When the Baku regime refers to northern Iran as "Southern Azerbaijan", I am incensed. We will not give one centimeter of Iranian land to anyone. I commend the Iranian government for making the right decision in its foreign policy, and recognizing Armenia as a true friend, and the only other country besides Russia that can successfully neutralize Azerbaijan and contain it.

[Arpa]

Just curious ... what position do you hold with the Iranian government?

Northeastern Iran is known as Azeriland. They speak Turkish and probably feel Turkish as well.

Iran should cede those lands to Turkey and urge them all to migrate to what is now as “Turkish Kurdistan”, let them annihilate each other and cleanse the land for us to redevelop. It will also show us how much love there may be between Turks and Azeris.

BTW, Dear Iran Forever...Remember the Battle of Vardananq? Do Armenians have to convert to Shiism? I came so close to a banned word.

[Dave]

That battle took place when Islam didn't even exist.

[Iran Forever]

Northeastern Iran is known as Azeriland. They speak Turkish and probably feel Turkish as well.

Iran should cede those lands to Turkey and urge them all to migrate to what is now as “Turkish Kurdistan”, let them annihilate each other and cleanse the land for us to redevelop. It will also show us how much love there may be between Turks and Azeris.

BTW, Dear Iran Forever...Remember the Battle of Vardananq? Do Armenians have to convert to Shiism? I came so close to a banned word.

Dear Arpa...I seriously do not understand the meaning or intent behind your question. First of all when the Battle of Vardanants (St. Vardan) took place against Persians, Persians were not yet Muslims, let alone Shi'ite Muslims. Was your question a light-hearted one, a sarcastic one, or a hostile one? There is no reason for Armenians to convert to Shi'ite Islam, since Christianity is a monotheistic religion that shares the same Abrahamic roots as Islam. Secondly, Iranian Armenians have numerous churches in Iran (most belong to the Gregorian Apostolic Church under Catholicos Vazgen)...Tehran has a huge Armenian church (St. Sarkis) visible from miles away. Officials from the Iranian government join Armenian priests every year to commemorate the Armenian Genocide of 1915. Armenians have their own schools where they can receive education in their own language (only requirement is that they offer one class in the Persian language...mainly Persian grammar and spelling) since the Ministry of Education requires it...only because Persian is the official language). Armenians can practice their Christian religion freely, so long as they do not attempt to aggressively convert Muslims. The only religious minority that is not recognized by the Iranian Constitution (and its adherents have been persecuted and denied basic rights) is Bah'aism, the reason being Bahai'sm started out as a heresy within Shi'ite Islam itself, and Bahaullah the founder of Baha'ism declared that he, and not the Prophet Mohammad, was the last prophet, negating Mohammad's declaration that he was the Seal of the Prophets, or the Last Prophet.

 

I did not like your reference to a battle that took place more than two millenia ago, while ignoring centuries of Armenian-Persian friendship, and peaceful co-existence between two Aryan people who are very close in many respects (even certain words are....Persian word for man "mard", Armenian word for "man "mart", yogurt in Persian, "mast", in Armenian "madzoun", coming from the same root).

 

For the record, we Iranians do not CEDE an inch of our country to anyone, and our neighbor to the north, Azerbaijan needs to understand this. They can call it "South Azerbaijan" until the cows come home, but Iranian land is Iranian land. Finally, Iran has always been a multiethnic, multicultural country, and all of us are Iranians FIRST. Not all Azeris are separatists and secessionists. Many are members of Iran's current Islamic Republic government even. We will assert our rights in the Caspian Sea as well, and Azerbaijan needs to come to terms with that as well.

 

I fail to see the purpose in your question. As humor, I can accept it, although I quite don't "get it". Otherwise it is one that is out of line. In Lebanon, Shi'ites and Armenians get along very well, almost like brothers.

 

Finally, I may have been raised a Shi'ite Muslim (and still respect the faith of my parents), but I myself am a CONVERT to Christianity, and belong to the Greek Orthodox Church. SURPRISE!

Edited July 7, 2006 by Iran Forever

[Arpa]

That battle took place when Islam didn't even exist.

Dave, please elaborate.

Are you saying things have changed since or it is the same old, same old?

Not to forget that in the interim the Persians flirted with Christianity as well.

People adopt religions to fit their national character. Armenians chose Christianity to fit their national pacifistic and loving character, maybe they were tired of war and hate, while others chose the marshal and warlike religion of Islam.

Things may change but they still remain the same. Some time ago the Persians were threatening the world with “elephants” and chariots, and now… with nuclear “nkler” weapons?

[Iran Forever]

Dave, please elaborate.

Are you saying things have changed since or it is the same old, same old?

Not to forget that in the interim the Persians flirted with Christianity as well.

People adopt religions to fit their national character. Armenians chose Christianity to fit their national pacifistic and loving character, maybe they were tired of war and hate, while others chose the marshal and warlike religion of Islam.

Things may change but they still remain the same. Some time ago the Persians were threatening the world with “elephants” and chariots, and now… with nuclear “nkler” weapons?

Arpa, this last post makes absolutely zero sense, and both its meaning and intent is as clear as muddy water. Therefore I won't dignify it with an answer, since it defies any common sense or logic. I can only surmise you must have had a bad personal experience with a Persian...what happened, did one of us outsmart you in a business deal or something? Come back when you're either sober or have taken your medication. Otherwise please don't waste threads with foolish statements like the one above, and OOPS, don't mix alcohol and anti-depressants.

[Arpa]

Until and unless you remove religion you will get nothing but derision from me. Please read as many posts as you can to see that most Armenians are irreligiously and irreverently agnostic. Most of us believe that there must be some other kind of solution, other than religion.

Dear Arpa...I seriously do not understand the meaning or intent behind your question. First of all when the Battle of Vardanants (St. Vardan) took place against Persians, Persians were not yet Muslims, let alone Shi'ite Muslims.

=====

Finally, I may have been raised a Shi'ite Muslim (and still respect the faith of my parents), but I myself am a CONVERT to Christianity, and belong to the Greek Orthodox Church. SURPRISE!

Good for you.

Welcome!

You may have finally realized that religion is in one’s heart, not in a surgically removed male part.

Dear Iran,

You speak impeccable English.

Where do you live?

Observe the map below, click on B and see how Iran and Armenia are separated by that narrow passage that was ceded to Turkey by…, you guessed it.

IRAN!

Why?

Why was it ceded to Turkey?

To guaranty that Turkey would protect the Shiites of Nakhjavan?

http://www.adiyamanli.org/MapofTurkey/b9.htm

How many men will it take to cut those sonaofabitches off Nakhjavan? Will Iran do it? Of cours not! They are too busy with the extremination of Israel.

Can we talk… as the saying goes....“turkey“, and stop this baloney of Armenian-Iranian love affair, and put our “money where our mouths are“?

Iran has not come out and publicly sided with Armenia.

Why?

What is holding them up?

Certainly not language, as we both speak Indo-European .

Religion, Shiism?

They can stick it up their big Iranian noses!!!

You may have gathered that I don’t subscribe to any organized religion. They are all below the level of my ‘intellect“, you may choose to call it something else.

If I were, then all those outside of Christianity, Judaism and Islam, implying that 1,2 billion Chinese would burn in “kehena”.

Can we cut this “religion baloney” out?

Armenians have suffered enough .

We don’t need another religious war.

Edited July 7, 2006 by Arpa

[Iran Forever]

Until and unless you remove religion you will get nothing but derision from me. Please read as many posts as you can to see that most Armenians are irreligiously and irreverently agnostic. Most of us believe that there must be some other kind of solution, other than religion.

 

Good for you.

Welcome!

You may have finally realized that religion is in one’s heart, not in a surgically removed male part.

Dear Iran,

You speak impeccable English.

Where do you live?

Observe the map below, click on B and see how Iran and Armenia are separated by that narrow passage that was ceded to Turkey by…, you guessed it.

IRAN!

Why?

Why was it ceded to Turkey?

To guaranty that Turkey would protect the Shiites of Nakhjavan?

http://www.adiyamanli.org/MapofTurkey/b9.htm

Can we talk… as the saying goes....“turkey“, and stop this baloney of Armenian-Iranian love affair, and put our “money where our mouths are“?

Iran has not come out and publicly sided with Armenia.

Why?

What is holding them up?

Certainly not language, as we both speak Indo-European .

Religion, Shiism?

They can stick it up their big Iranian noses!!!

You may have gathered that I don’t subscribe to any organized religion. They are all below the level of my ‘intellect“, you may choose to call it something else.

If I were, then all those outside of Christianity, Judaism and Islam, implying that 1,2 billion Chinese would burn in “kehena”.

Can we cut this “religion baloney” out?

Armenians have suffered enough .

We don’t need another religious war.

Arpa, if you read the other posts by both me and Sassoun it will explain why Iran can't publicly side with Armenia...both reasons are political...Iran's government has tried to portray itself as the protector of "Shi'ites" all over the world, and Azerbaijan is a Shi'ite country...Iran has spent years trying to win influence in Lebanon and Iraq by being the "Big Shi'ite Brother"...you don't expect Iran's leadership to come out looking like liars (even though they actually are, since Iran is covertly if not publicly supporting Armenia). Secondly, we have 26 million Azerbaijanis of our own (Azerbaijan Republic has only 8 million), and sorry, but we won't commit political suicide and incite revolt among our own Azeris by publicly supporting Armenia against Azerbaijan. Rest assured that we are supporting Armenia behind close doors, and you obviously didn't read the two articles about Kocharians most recent visit to Tehran this month (on ArmeniaLiberty website).

 

I totally DISAGREE with you that most Armenians are agnostic. Hogwash! I have not been to Armenia, but I have been to the Armenian Quarter in Jerusalem, and seen firsthand the piety of Armenians. And if you choose to be derisive about religion, I choose to ignore you.

[Iran Forever]

Until and unless you remove religion you will get nothing but derision from me. Please read as many posts as you can to see that most Armenians are irreligiously and irreverently agnostic. Most of us believe that there must be some other kind of solution, other than religion.

 

Good for you.

Welcome!

You may have finally realized that religion is in one’s heart, not in a surgically removed male part.

Dear Iran,

You speak impeccable English.

Where do you live?

Observe the map below, click on B and see how Iran and Armenia are separated by that narrow passage that was ceded to Turkey by…, you guessed it.

IRAN!

Why?

Why was it ceded to Turkey?

To guaranty that Turkey would protect the Shiites of Nakhjavan?

http://www.adiyamanli.org/MapofTurkey/b9.htm

How many men will it take to cut those sonaofabitches off Nakhjavan? Will Iran do it? Of cours not! They are too busy with the extremination of Israel.

Can we talk… as the saying goes....“turkey“, and stop this baloney of Armenian-Iranian love affair, and put our “money where our mouths are“?

Iran has not come out and publicly sided with Armenia.

Why?

What is holding them up?

Certainly not language, as we both speak Indo-European .

Religion, Shiism?

They can stick it up their big Iranian noses!!!

You may have gathered that I don’t subscribe to any organized religion. They are all below the level of my ‘intellect“, you may choose to call it something else.

If I were, then all those outside of Christianity, Judaism and Islam, implying that 1,2 billion Chinese would burn in “kehena”.

Can we cut this “religion baloney” out?

Armenians have suffered enough .

We don’t need another religious war.

By the way Igdir is now Kurdish-populated.

[Iran Forever]

Until and unless you remove religion you will get nothing but derision from me. Please read as many posts as you can to see that most Armenians are irreligiously and irreverently agnostic. Most of us believe that there must be some other kind of solution, other than religion.

 

Good for you.

Welcome!

You may have finally realized that religion is in one’s heart, not in a surgically removed male part.

Dear Iran,

You speak impeccable English.

Where do you live?

Observe the map below, click on B and see how Iran and Armenia are separated by that narrow passage that was ceded to Turkey by…, you guessed it.

IRAN!

Why?

Why was it ceded to Turkey?

To guaranty that Turkey would protect the Shiites of Nakhjavan?

http://www.adiyamanli.org/MapofTurkey/b9.htm

How many men will it take to cut those sonaofabitches off Nakhjavan? Will Iran do it? Of cours not! They are too busy with the extremination of Israel.

Can we talk… as the saying goes....“turkey“, and stop this baloney of Armenian-Iranian love affair, and put our “money where our mouths are“?

Iran has not come out and publicly sided with Armenia.

Why?

What is holding them up?

Certainly not language, as we both speak Indo-European .

Religion, Shiism?

They can stick it up their big Iranian noses!!!

You may have gathered that I don’t subscribe to any organized religion. They are all below the level of my ‘intellect“, you may choose to call it something else.

If I were, then all those outside of Christianity, Judaism and Islam, implying that 1,2 billion Chinese would burn in “kehena”.

Can we cut this “religion baloney” out?

Armenians have suffered enough .

We don’t need another religious war.

One last thing...we nearly lost our Azeri provinces over a stupid "cockroach" cartoon in an Iranian newspaper, imagine what would happen if we were to PUBLICLY endorse Armenia's takeover of Artsakh? Thirty-five percent of our land would go to the Baku regime after an unstoppable revolt in our Azeri provinces.

[Dave]

The Iranians really need to find ways to tame the Azerbaijanis of Iran, as Iran's territorial integrity is beneficial not only for Iran and Armenia, but also for all the non-Turkic nations inhabiting the area. The separation of Iran's Azerbaijani provinces paves the way for the separation of Iran's other non-Persian provinces. This could reduce Iran's size greatly and might eventually lead to its destruction, as ethnic Persians make only 50% of Iran's population (or maybe even less)

 

If such things happen, nothing would stop the Turks from pursuing their non-forgotten Turkic dream: the creation of Turan from the Balkans, through the Caucasus, Iran, and Russia, and all the way to Mongolia. Where do the Armenians belong in the Turkic dream? Nowhere!

 

They recently organized a protest in Tabriz as a sign of support of their brethren in the struggle against Armenians. The protest was also a show of force against the Iranian government, thus a protest that advocates pan-Turanism. The protesters, who were also destroying an Armenian shop or 2, were thankfully neutralized by Iranian police.

 

There was even a pro-Azerbaijan protest in Ottawa, as a response to the Armenian protest against Aliyev's quasi-declaration of war. The protesters were carrying the flag of Azerbaijan, and also that of the so-called Turkic entity in northern Iran. It is really despicable how the Azeris are using their unjust struggle for Karabagh as a means to propagate pan-Turanism and their idea of "Greater Azerbaijan".

 

These are only a few examples of a few protests that took place this year... Who knows what has happened in the past, and also what might happen in the future if Armenia and Iran don't take the necessary precautions, and if they don't stick together.

Edited July 7, 2006 by Dave

[Sassun]

Dave, please elaborate.

Are you saying things have changed since or it is the same old, same old?

Not to forget that in the interim the Persians flirted with Christianity as well.

People adopt religions to fit their national character. Armenians chose Christianity to fit their national pacifistic and loving character, maybe they were tired of war and hate, while others chose the marshal and warlike religion of Islam.

Things may change but they still remain the same. Some time ago the Persians were threatening the world with “elephants” and chariots, and now… with nuclear “nkler” weapons?

They were Zoroastrans. Zratashdagan.

 

Shooting the messenger is always a wrong thing.

[Iran Forever]

The Iranians really need to find ways to tame the Azerbaijanis of Iran, as Iran's territorial integrity is beneficial not only for Iran and Armenia, but also for all the non-Turkic nations inhabiting the area. The separation of Iran's Azerbaijani provinces paves the way for the separation of Iran's other non-Persian provinces. This could reduce Iran's size greatly and might eventually lead to its destruction, as ethnic Persians make only 50% of Iran's population (or maybe even less)

 

If such things happen, nothing would stop the Turks from pursuing their non-forgotten Turkic dream: the creation of Turan from the Balkans, through the Caucasus, Iran, and Russia, and all the way to Mongolia. Where do the Armenians belong in the Turkic dream? Nowhere!

 

They recently organized a protest in Tabriz as a sign of support of their brethren in the struggle against Armenians. The protest was also a show of force against the Iranian government, thus a protest that advocates pan-Turanism. The protesters, who were also destroying an Armenian shop or 2, were thankfully neutralized by Iranian police.

 

There was even a pro-Azerbaijan protest in Ottawa, as a response to the Armenian protest against Aliyev's quasi-declaration of war. The protesters were carrying the flag of Azerbaijan, and also that of the so-called Turkic entity in northern Iran. It is really despicable how the Azeris are using their unjust struggle for Karabagh as a means to propagate pan-Turanism and their idea of "Greater Azerbaijan".

 

These are only a few examples of a few protests that took place this year... Who knows what has happened in the past, and also what might happen in the future if Armenia and Iran don't take the necessary precautions, and if they don't stick together.

Dave, you said it best, and you said it very wisely. Iran is a country with 10 major ethnic groups, not to mention dozens of smaller tribes, and Persians make up only half (and that is barely half, since Mazandaranis and Gilakis who speak Persian dialects that are not standard Farsi are included in the generic classification "Persian") of the population. "Autonomy" for "South Azerbaijan" will soon be followed by a demand for a similar status from Kurds, followed by Baluchis, followed by Lurs, followed by ethnic Arabs in Khuzestan, etc. etc. etc.

 

Azerbaijan will not rest until she has accomplished her goal of taking our northern provinces and incorporating them into one big "Greater Azerbaijan" (in their language spelled "Boyuk Azerbaycan"). Never mind that they have violated our territorial rights in the Caspian on at least 10 different occasions, and claiming Iran's Alborz oil field in the Caspian. But our dilemma is, 26 million is a very large number...Turkey's Kurds are only 15 million and are considered a large minority.

 

Turkey can export her pan-Turkist, pan-Turanist, Bozkurt ideology and Kemalist crap...they will have to fight every Iranian down to the last man before they take one f--king centimeter of Iranian land. We need you Armenians to keep Azerbaijan in check. There needs to be a strong Iranian-Russian-Armenian-Greek alliance against Turkey and Azerbaijan.

 

I hope Greece and the Republic of Cyprus begin those scheduled flights to Stepanakert (which Azeris call "Xankendi") very soon...they've been talking about it. I would love to see Azerbaijan humiliated. How dare Azerbaijan even talk about the "rights" of Iranian Azeris when Azerbaijan Republic denies its own Talysh minority (who are a majority in the southern part of the country along the Caspian in the Talysh lowlands) who speak a Persian dialect and are of Persian origin the most basic rights when it comes to expressing their language and culture! Even historically the Talysh khanate never belonged to Azerbaijan!

My dream is to see Armenia take over Nakhchivan...then I will REALLY celebrate!!!!

Edited July 7, 2006 by Iran Forever

[Dave]

But our dilemma is, 26 million is a very large number...Turkey's Kurds are only 15 million and are considered a large minority.

 

Yeah, but the difference is that the concept of Iran is an all-inclusive one, which means that Iran isn't for a single ethnic group, but for all ethnic groups that have inhabited the territory. The concept of Turkey is radically different, in the sense that it's a country for the Turks, so non-Turks aren't considered permanant inhabitants of Turkey. That's why Kurds have a good justification to separate from Turkey, unlike the Azeri separatists.

 

I hope Greece and the Republic of Cyprus begin those scheduled flights to Stepanakert (which Azeris call "Xankendi") very soon...they've been talking about it.

 

Unfortunately, Greece is in NATO, thus an automatic ally of Turkey.

 

My dream is to see Armenia take over Nakhchivan...then I will REALLY celebrate!!!!

 

My own dream is to see the reinstatement of the Sèvres treaty.

[Iran Forever]

Yeah, but the difference is that the concept of Iran is an all-inclusive one, which means that Iran isn't for a single ethnic group, but for all ethnic groups that have inhabited the territory. The concept of Turkey is radically different, in the sense that it's a country for the Turks, so non-Turks aren't considered permanant inhabitants of Turkey. That's why Kurds have a good justification to separate from Turkey, unlike the Azeri separatists.

Unfortunately, Greece is in NATO, thus an automatic ally of Turkey.

My own dream is to see the reinstatement of the Sèvres treaty.

Hi Dave, I haven't heard of that other forum you mentioned...allempire...you are right about the difference between Iran and Turkey. I agree, I wish the Treaty of Sevres, which Ataturk nullified, would be reinstated. That said, between 1918 and 1920 Iran had the PERFECT opportunity to take back what is now the Republic of Azerbaijan (Northern Azerbaijan)...Czarist Russia was weak and had no control over this "province", and the Soviets had not reached this part of the Caucasus yet. Instead Iran did something totally stupid...left the matter to the Paris Conference which NEVER addressed Iran's claim. During these two years, "Northern Azerbaijan" was independent until the Soviets took over in 1920. Then of course, "South Azerbaijan" revolted against Iran, Soviet troops moved in on our land, and an Iranian Azeri traitor by the name of Jafar Pishevari formed the "Democratic Republic of Azerbaijan" in 1945 and declared himself President in Tabriz. After pressure from President Truman, and after smart diplomacy by Prime Minister Qavam, the Soviets pulled out, and we were able to take back "South Azerbaijan" once again. Iranian Azeris burned us once back in 1945, and we will NOT allow that to happen again. The late President Elchibey's dream of taking over "South Azerbaijan" and moving the capital from Baku to Tabriz (the ancient historic capital of the Azerbaijani Safavi Dynasty, who later moved the capital to Isfahan in central Iran) did not happen. The Baku regime will see Tabriz the same day it sees Stepanakert: NEVER day...

[Hellektor]

Northeastern Iran is known as Azeriland. They speak Turkish and probably feel Turkish as well.

Iran should cede those lands to Turkey and urge them all to migrate to what is now as “Turkish Kurdistan”, let them annihilate each other and cleanse the land for us to redevelop. It will also show us how much love there may be between Turks and Azeris.

BTW, Dear Iran Forever...Remember the Battle of Vardananq? Do Armenians have to convert to Shiism? I came so close to a banned word.

Arpa, you are a very learned user of this forum and this post strikes me as the most negative thing you ever said.

 

You may have harbored negative feelings from Iranians because of Vardanank or the Iranian invasions in Achaemenid, Sassanid and later eras, but you should know there's MUCH more positive between the Armenians and the Iranians than those things of the past. The very reason that the Armenians kept their religion testifies to this fact.

 

Not only the Iranians have never treated us like those savage, primitive, bloodthirsty, Mongolo-Tatar, Human Culture deficiency Viruses, they have given us the greratest of all Armenian dynasties, the Arshakunis when Armenia badly needed to stand on its feet. They have also given us Gregory the Illuminator (who I personally dislike for having destroyed our pagan temples), who helped greatly to make Christianity the official religion of Armenia, in an equally dangerous era, when Armenia was most vulnerable.

 

The Armenians in turn have contributed to the development of Iran in a great degree. Yeprem Khan (a Dashnak if you please), is one of the most prominent figures of the most important movement in Iran in the last couple of centuries, the Constitutional Revolution. He, along with other Armenians like Kerry (a Dashnak if you please as well), fought for Iran’s freedom and gave their lives for their country. I haven't seen another figure in another people's history that could kiss the dirt that Yeprem walked on.

 

The official currency of Iran is Rial, but no one refers to this on the street, instead, the unofficial currency Tooman (=10 Rials) is used in commerce everywhere and it comes from Toomanians who were pioneers of banking in Iran.

 

The first book printed in Iran was an Armenian Book of Psalms, printed by the very first press in Jugha in 1638, brought to Iran by Bishop Khachatour Kesaratsi.

The first Iranian movie (silent) was made by Hovhannes Ohanians.

The first school for actors was founded by Armenians. The same goes for theater, modern architecture, painting, music…

 

 

http://www.alikonline.com/files/2006/june/27/27c01b.jpg http://www.alikonline.com/files/2006/june/26/26c01a.jpg

 

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/photos/data/500/YepremKhan.jpg

 

The one and only sardar of vatan, the greatest of all 20th century heroes, the great Yeprem Khan

 

To see what the Iranians think of the Iranian Armenians you should read the following article. I have translated it for the non-Farsi speakers:

 

Iranian Armenians, the Weight of a Minority Among a Nation, by Sirus Ali Nejad, from BBC Persian

 

"Living four hundred years in Iran, that gave the Armenians their Iranian identity, and since accepting all that is good is in their nature, they took in as much as they could from Iranian culture and they influenced the Iranian culture many times more than they had taken from it. The Iranian influence on Armenians is something the Armenians themselves can talk about, the purpose of this report is to show the influence of the Armenians on Iranian culture.

 

In “Symphony of the Dead”, a novel by Abbas Maaroufi, set in the twenties (solar Hijri calendar H.), that deals with a feud, everybody has a role in ruining the life of the main character Aidin, except an Armenian family the Mirzaians, who own a timber cutting factory, who don’t spare an effort in saving the Muslim protagonist of the novel.

 

This is not a random or artificial image of the Armenians of Iran, it’s an image that the majority of Iranians have from their compatriots for four hundred years. Anyone among us who has known Armenians in their city or town, has an image of camaraderie and agreement of thoughts in their mind. “Symphony of the Dead” doesn’t just point to the virtuous nature of this minority but to their industriousness as well.

 

The image of Armenians in the minds of Iranians is one of skillful craftsmen who free from any deceit and full of trustworthiness engage in various technical professions. Until the Islamic Revolution, that is, in the period they were present much more extensively in Iran, usually the best carpenters, the furniture makers with the greatest taste, the cleanest producers of foodstuff, the most trustworthy mechanics, tailors, shoe makers, confectioners would be found among them, of course, the sales of drinks was also their domain.

 

Reviewing the names of pioneers in various branches of art, industry and commerce of our time will reveal how much this minority has influenced the Iranian culture. In the advancement of contemporary Iran there isn’t a single field where one doesn’t come across their names, everywhere they are either the most prominent or the founders.

 

After the tragic forced migration by Shah Abbas and after their settlement in Julfa, Isfahan and the healing process with the contribution of the Shah, they became Iranians and they worked passionately for the improvement of Iran, and since they were a cultured people they became the pioneers in progress and novelties in all fields: in politics, in arts, in science and technology, in music, in cinema, in painting, in theater, in photography, in turning to civilization, in printing and publishing, in industry and architecture and in any field imaginable the names of the Armenians are to be found in the ranks of the leaders. Possibly no other minority anywhere in the world can be found who has served so much a country that logically should have been considered their second home but became their first.

 

Because of their engagement in trade, even from the time of Shah Abbas, they have been responsible for establishing relations between Iran and the West. On one hand, the fact that the Armenians were dispersed all over the world, facilitated their movement to different corners of the globe, on the other hand, the relations between them and the Christians of Europe, resulted in their acquaintance with Western new ideas and civilization earlier than other Iranians.

 

Because of this, they became the forerunners in the learning of sciences and technical skills, and this in turn resulted that in later periods, especially in the last hundred and fifty years, when Iran had become aware of the importance of the progress in the West, they functioned as an open window towards the European civilization.

 

We Iranians owe the presence of the Armenians to Shah Abbas. Our debt to Armenians themselves is incalculable. A people that lived for four hundred years among Iranians, learned to speak Persian and created works in Persian (Mirza Melkom Khan being the most prominent), but preserved their language. I cannot think of another ethnicity or nation that has the same weight as this people… having lived for several centuries among strangers, having become locals, having created this amount of wonders, having become landlords of their houses, at the same time not having lost their independence, is an art that not many nations master."

 

………….

 

Several links related to Iranian Armenians are presented in other sections of the article.

 

 

Check this article for the Armenian contribution to the Iranian Constitutional Movement.

 

http://www.alikonline.com/files/2006/june/27/27c01c.jpg

 

Kerry and his fighters

I have posted a short ""Azeri" History for Dummies" many times in different forums and also today in Iran Forever's thread about Azerbaboons. There, I insist on the facts that:

 

I. A nation called "Azeri" has NEVER existed throughout human history.

 

II. A country named "Azerbaijan" north of the Arax River NEVER existed before 1918.

 

III. A language derived from Turkish called "Azeri" does not exist. Turks of the Caucasus speak a DIALECT of Turkish.

 

IV. The peoples living to the south and to the north of the Arax River have ALWAYS been two separate, unrelated entities throughout history in racial, linguistic, religious, cultural and national terms.

 

V. The people of the real Azarbaijan (Aturpatekan) SOUTH of the Arax River are Turkish speaking Iranians. This is the result of the Turkic domination in the region.

[Hellektor]

We Iranians support Armenia and Artsakh. Azerbaijan is an enemy to both of us, and as an Iranian I am very HAPPY there is an Armenia to neutralize Azerbaijan. Turkic history is fake...the only thing real about Turks' history is centuries of sacking, pillaging, conquering other people's lands, etc. Now Azerbaijan Republic is making ludicrous claims to northern IRAN, calling northern Iran "South Azerbaijan" implying that "South Azerbaijan" is just another province of Azerbaijan Republic...they are also inciting Iran's ethnic Azerbaijanis, and calling upon them to revolt, secede and separate from Iran, taking 35 percent of Iranian land with them and joining the Republic of Azerbaijan.

I have posted a reply to your post here, where I present my own solution to pulverizing pan-Turkism.

[Hellektor]

Please keep in mind that other than the Shi'ite element there is also the national element/interest, and for Iran it is also a "problem" of its Azeri minority, which would (it fears) be encouraged to secede by fresh fighting over Karabakh/Artsakh, given the rise of nationalist feelings and consciousness, and also the fact that this could be used by Iran's #1 enemy at the moment, USA...

For god's sake, for Christ's sake, for f*** sake, please...

 

I. A nation called "Azeri" has NEVER existed throughout human history.

 

II. A country named "Azerbaijan" north of the Arax River NEVER existed before 1918.

 

III. A language derived from Turkish called "Azeri" does not exist. Turks of the Caucasus speak a DIALECT of Turkish.

 

IV. The peoples living to the south and to the north of the Arax River have ALWAYS been two separate, unrelated entities throughout history in racial, linguistic, religious, cultural and national terms.

 

V. The people of the real Azarbaijan (Aturpatekan) SOUTH of the Arax River are Turkish speaking Iranians. This is the result of the Turkic domination in the region.

 

Do not fall into that Jewey Lewis trap, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase!

Edited July 9, 2006 by Edward