Maral Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 The search for virginal wives is not a mothers issue,but the sons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koko Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 (edited) "It's true that Armenian guys often are insufferable jerks. However, it gets on my nerves when the Armenian women, who in the whole are responsible for raising those jerks complain about their collective creations. And no, "what about the father" won't cut it, because he is also mostly raised by his mother. The solution lies with how Armenian boys are raised. To the extent that the Armenian culture is an isolated, distinct entity (which of course it is not *), the first move inescapably has to come from the females, and most relevantly from the mothers. Raise your boys well." wait a minute! youre telling us that the ameniian woman are responsible for raising yerks , do they have the entire responsibliity? or could it be that the father and the mother have both equal responsiblitity on how to raise their children Edited August 25, 2004 by koko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 It's true that Armenian guys often are insufferable jerks. However, it gets on my nerves when the Armenian women, who in the whole are responsible for raising those jerks complain about their collective creations. And no, "what about the father" won't cut it, because he is also mostly raised by his mother. The solution lies with how Armenian boys are raised. To the extent that the Armenian culture is an isolated, distinct entity (which of course it is not *), the first move inescapably has to come from the females, and most relevantly from the mothers. Raise your boys well. * The other, much more likely factor is the simple absorption of new values from the host cultures, which these days offer a less chauvinistic role for men. They come with their bag of issues, but that's a different discussion. AMEN to that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 The search for virginal wives is not a mothers issue,but the sons. To say that implies that there is something genetically wrong with the sons, and they are beyond help, and mothers can do nothing to prevent their boys from growing up to become self-absorbed overgrown babies. Is that gene particular to the Armenian genome? Maybe we are a distinct subspecies Homo Sapiens Sapiens Armenicus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 wait a minute...youre telling us that the ameniian woman are responsible for raising yerks , do they have the entire responsibliity? or could it be that the father and the mother have both equal responsiblitity on how to raise their children. I thought I anticipated and addressed that exact issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koko Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 (edited) This is a family issue. YOu cant blame only the mother, or only the father. it takes TWO to tango, as it is often said and this is the case in raising children.. Edited August 25, 2004 by koko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 TB, I think the point is that boys/men are naturally screwed up. There's nothing any parent can do but hope for some moderate luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 This is a family issue. It has nothing to do with the mother, or the father. it takes TWO to tango, as it is often said and this is the case in raising children.. Let's go over it again. If: Father=he can't be bothered with the lowly task of being involved in the nitty gritty Mother=left alone by the father to raise her sons; appears to raise replicas of the father (who is not involved in the business) Then: The mother, who is doing the tango alone, has to change something in how she raises her boys, since it won't be coming from the father, who has been raised and trained to be uninvolved in such lowly activities. (that's where the tango fails, you see) The virtuous cycle of ever-better males would never take off without a coherent change in Armenian maternal attitudes towards their boys. That's assuming that Armenian culture is isolated, which of course it is not. Then we can all sit on our butts, and assimilation (in the diaspora) and globalization (in the homeland) will take care of the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 TB, I think the point is that boys/men are naturally screwed up. There's nothing any parent can do but hope for some moderate luck. Thanks for that assessment, nairi. Does that square with your cross-cultural observations? Since you are implying that there is nothing particularly different in the behavior and attitudes of Armenian men, the whole issue is meaningless. Not only Armenian men are beyond help, but they are not particularly different from the men of other cultures. No reason for any complaints then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Yes, I mean all men. And women if I may add. We're all screwed up. Some of us are just better at hiding it. Who said that? I agree with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 We're all screwed up. Well, yes. But that is also an information-free statement, since we are comiserating about relative screwed-upness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 BTW..this whole issue with men wanting virgins for wives is a control issue! So get over it and quick Not in all cases. Some people still want to have what is called a relationship... not a marriage in vain due to sexual immorality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 ARGH!!!!! You're so frustrating Gevo! I wish you would vanish!!! Yes, everyone has the right to have an opinion, but your opinion is based on NOTHING. You have NEVER had a relationship involving sex, you immediately jump to the conclusion that people who have sex before marriage live in sex-clubs and night-clubs, and that a loving relationship is impossible unless you're married. Go away already!!!! Or should I ask: how the hell did your mother raise you????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Interesting ... so I guess thanks to TB, we have reached a classic chicken and the egg problem on our hands, except in this case we are trying to make the chickens lay eggs that are not going to be as screwed up on the relative screwedupness scale as the original eggs ... yah I think I got it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 ARGH!!!!! You're so frustrating Gevo! I wish you would vanish!!! Yes, everyone has the right to have an opinion, but your opinion is based on NOTHING. You have NEVER had a relationship involving sex, you immediately jump to the conclusion that people who have sex before marriage live in sex-clubs and night-clubs, and that a loving relationship is impossible unless you're married. Go away already!!!! Or should I ask: how the hell did your mother raise you????? Right on Nairi - exactly - you hit the nail on the head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 a marriage in vain due to sexual immorality. Since when is loss of virginity the same as sexual immorality? A tip: I wouldn't state your opinions on this matter to any girls when going out mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 (edited) I usually step away from threads when I see that the info being given comes from inexperience and when I see that the poster/s are chasing their own tail and just like the sound of their own voice or seeing their name on top of a post But I just had to add one more post Why should we try and convince people,especially those who have NO experience in adult relationships that they are wrong....time will tell. Let's see how fast their fantasy world collapses They will either be in a relationship and want to take it to the next level...and learn...or they will end up in a serious relationship to later find out that person is not a virgin,and they will learn the way of the world... for now...don't bother explaining reality to them Let it hit them squarely in the forehead just my two cents.. ok now I'm done... you may continue Edited August 25, 2004 by Maral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsher101 Posted August 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 ARGH!!!!! You're so frustrating Gevo! I wish you would vanish!!! Yes, everyone has the right to have an opinion, but your opinion is based on NOTHING. You have NEVER had a relationship involving sex, you immediately jump to the conclusion that people who have sex before marriage live in sex-clubs and night-clubs, and that a loving relationship is impossible unless you're married. Go away already!!!! Or should I ask: how the hell did your mother raise you????? Nairi, i see you are short tempered and unfortunately i have posted recently that peope over here fight more than they make friends. It is people like you if i may say who make this website uninteresting since you don't know your bounderies. Each one of us deserves to state their opinion but without offending others. After all everyone thinks they are mature enough to state an opinion and please respect that. As for what you said about men and women, i think you are really really really generalizing. there are many many cutlutres that still have that virginity issue and the screw up issue to care about. A perfect example is the middle eastern countries who still think its an honor to kill a screwed up guy or a girl if you call them that way. We had that in Armenian families however, that itself tells that people improve and become more moderate. I personally don't think killing is a solution, yet educating the kids and today's young men and women about more logical reasons of the importance of being virgin until marriage for example, take any of you who posts these coments. If you have had sex with every boyfriend or girlfriend you dated or were aiming towards doing so, don't you think that marriage is pointless? don't you think that you can just as well live with the person without marrying him or her? i think you would say yes if you are that person. but if you don't get married, then first you won't be able to benefit from the government which you all think about, you would live an immoral life if you are little on the religion side, and even if you don't beleive in any sort of religion, you are excluded from all societies because in their eyes you have commited a sin. meaning you would be living lonely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Nairi, i see you are short tempered ... Actually, that's a rather inaccurate observation. She is one of the more level headed people I've seen on the web. You have to realize that the frustration demonstrated above is coming after pages and pages and pages (i.e. months) of "discussions" over virginity and sexual imorality with the likes of gevo who simply regurgitate the tired old "you are a virgin or a slut" categorization of "unmarried" people. Once again, I would highly encourage you to not jump to any conclusions too quickly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 We had that in Armenian families however We had that (virginity issue) in Armenian families is correct! There were those traditions of the "apples" and the "red stains" the day after the wedding. All of them died in 17 century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsher101 Posted August 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Once again, I would highly encourage you to not jump to any conclusions too quickly Thank you for the advice but why instead of answering and viewing her point normally like others, she starts to make him seem like a kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 sarsher101, I would repeat everything that Sip has said and recommend you use the search button(it the one above that looks like this ) and look into many of the posts that these people have made prior to making a conclusion about them. As for Gevo, what can I say, he is a naive kid. I have met him in person. A very nice guy, but his views on this issue will change over time. I GUARANTEE that.(I know he is going to tell me that they will never change) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 I protest about this thread, for the record I want to stress here I'm a very LUCKY Armenian guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 I protest about this thread, for the record I want to stress here I'm a very LUCKY Armenian guy hmm- need we ask why? Anyway - I feel the same - for a whole varity of reasons of course... This issue of mothers and mother's responsibility is an interesting one. We all know that no girl is good anough for an Armenian son - no? - lol Anyway - perhaps my mother did a good thing when she intentionally and vociferously brought me up to be an American boy and not an Armenain at all...don't know - I have somewhat resented and regretted it at varius times - but no big deal really. I know for one that when dating and when I married I did not either expect nor really care - non-issue really - (and certainly not prefer) a virgin...if anything the opposite (when dating in particular) - I mean experience is good - as in most things - practice makes perfect - that sort of thing...and it was nice to bed gals who more or less knew what they wanted and also who knew how to please and such... And yes - I always recommend sex before marriage (with the potential future missus I mean...but yeah no need to limit it to just with her...at least not initially...). I mean would you buy a car without at least a test drive or several? (and how do you know you have a "good one" if you didn't test drive a few others for comparsion sake? ) And this is for life you know - not just till the lease runs out...yeah its just one aspect of the relationship - but it is not an unimportant one....I also recommend living together (prior to signing on that line....very important!!!!)...my wife and I even bought a house together before we got married...though we pretty much had the rest planned out...still... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 I wouldn't give advice to anyone except this one: mind your own business. Sarsher, the reason I "burst out" at Gevo (call that excited talk) and his kind, is because they don't mind their own business. They are the ones digging their nose where it doesn't belong and then labeling what they see negatively only because they are unable to tolerate different lifestyles. I don't care if you become a monk, but let me be a prostitute if I want to be one, and stop damning me to hell with it. If there's one person/thing that can do that it's God. Mind your own business and God will mind his own. As long as you're doing that, you won't hear anything from me. But the second YOU start insulting me (which is what Gevo has been doing all along - indirectly, but still), don't expect me not to say something about eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.