What Is An Armenian?

[nairi]

I have dark hair and dark eyes. I speak Armenian and think in English. I must be a Kurd.

[Vigil]

I have dark hair and dark eyes. I speak Armenian and think in English. I must be a Kurd.

 

No, your just confused.

[Vigil]

What is sad is that Domino or [insert board know it all here] will try and retort TAP's mockery of the entire "opposition" with one or two pseudo-intellectual comments as a rebuttal. Edited July 16, 2004 by Vigil

[nairi]

Why? I don't have "white" blood. So I cannot be Armenian since an Armenian is white and not "black". Since I have dark hair, dark eyes, and even a slight tan, I cannot possibly be a pure Armenian and since you can't be a bit pregnant, you can't be a bit Armenian either. Either you are or you are not. Clearly I am not because I cannot be. Sociological factors are not enough in your analysis. I also need the biological factor. Since I don't have the biological and the sociological is limited (I did not grow up among Armenians), how can I even dare feel Armenian let alone identify myself as one, let alone be one? Hmm.

[America-Hye]

I speak Armenian, my father once had an Armenian surname as did three of my four great-grandfathers. One was an Armenian Apostolic and financed the rebuilding of an Armenian Church. Another an Armenian Catholic was a great benfactor to that church. My uncles on my mother's side underwote about 1/2 of the cost of building an Armenian Catholic Church from scratch. So what if I am a Zen Buddhist, I am still an Armenian.

[DominO123]

"1)I think like a tree, I must be a tree."

 

So you think like a tree? I always found there was something weird with you. Still, everyone can misuse others statment or even forge them. The question is about if you think in the language of the tree? The next time you would try to ridicule what others have said, try to understand them.

 

 

"2) I can speak ebonics VERY well and after a few hours of a healthy dosage of MTV "Hip-Hop" dribble, I sure as hell think like an african man of color. I'm BLACK, I wonder if the black folk in the slums of Detroit will buy this fact? Zimbabwe, here I come my motherland!!"

 

So you think in the language of a Zimbabwe?

 

"3) I just finished my 5th year of advanced japanese linguistics, mentality, and way of life, I MUST be Japanese. In fact, when seen in the street, my white, round eyed, hot looking Armenian male appearance is always mistaken for Japanese since I know the language, culture, and way of life/thinking after several years of study. Yes, I'm Japanese."

 

So you think in the language of a Japanese?

 

"4) After studying my dog for many years, I've learned the instinctual mentality of a canine, I'm a dog."

 

WOW! Great, and from when being a "dog" is an ethnicity or a "culture" ?

 

"5) Actually come to think of it, I did learn a lot about Native American Indians, I can perform smoke signals, and I speak Cherokee very well, enough to think like one in fact, call me Chief TAP from now on, I'm Native American."

 

So you think in the language of a Cherokee?

 

 

"Jesus H. Christ man, I can't believe you attribute ANY of the theories you've come up with in this thread as logically coherent or relevant in ANY manner with what it is to be Armenian. For ANYONE to discount genetic lineage as not a contributing factor for being defined as part of an ethnic group is so childishly naive and proposterous. It's amazing that grown adults on these boards buy into it at all. And for thousands of years there have been wars, rape, killings, and conflicts between different ethnic groups for survival and here is Domino with the solution all along, "learn" the language and you'll become part of the opposition, BAM, simple as that! Please bud, first grow up, then relax and step right back through that door back to us, you know, that door that says "Reality" on it."

 

Maybe you should read more carefuly my posts, I have not discounted "lineage" as a contribution factor, what I said was that lineage was not enought neither a condition for one to be an Armenian. And neither have I claimed that learning the language is enough, thinking in a language is just more than just learning a language, because it means that this language for you passes before any other languages, the language of ones mind.

 

Lastly, I think in your next reply you should try to criticise what you call my theories and not say things which I have not implied and then answer.

Edited July 16, 2004 by Fadix

[DominO123]

I have dark hair and dark eyes. I speak Armenian and think in English. I must be a Kurd.

Yeh! Since genetically you can't differenciate an Eastern Kurd with an Armenian.

[DominO123]

I speak Armenian, my father once had an Armenian surname as did three of my four great-grandfathers. One was an Armenian Apostolic and financed the rebuilding of an Armenian Church. Another an Armenian Catholic was a great benfactor to that church. My uncles on my mother's side underwote about 1/2 of the cost of building an Armenian Catholic Church from scratch. So what if I am a Zen Buddhist, I am still an Armenian.

No! You're not Armenian, you're a Hagarag. The first of its kind.

[Vigil]

Maybe you should read more carefuly my posts, I have not discounted "lineage" as a contribution factor, what I said was that lineage was not enought neither a condition for one to be an Armenian. And neither have I claimed that learning the language is enough, thinking in a language is just more than just learning a language, because it means that this language for you passes before any other languages, the language of ones mind.

 

Listen, Domino, let me simplify what you are proposing, which is:

 

"As a result of the long and varied history of the [Armenians], it is difficult to define a [Armenian]. For example, there is no such thing as a [Armenian] race. Anyone born to a [Armenian] mother, or anyone who has converted to [Armenianism] according to [Armenian] law, is a [Armenian]. Many people define [Armenians] as a persons who consider themselves [Armenian]."

 

Now since you are indeed making being Armenian the equivalent of being Jewish I for one do not want to be "Armenian" because I am not spiritual, which is why Domino, Nairi, and Boghos must go on converting missions due to the fact that the 6 million Armenians worldwide are already Christians.

 

Lastly, I think in your next reply you should try to criticise what you call my theories and not say things which I have not implied and then answer.

 

Domino, did you "retort" the pages upon pages of logic I used to destroy your argument? No, which means then that do not expect someone to take you seriously.

 

If what you are proposing is indeed if "I think like a Armenian, I am Armenian" then equally if "I think like a tree, I must be a tree", right? Wrong, because if indeed being Armenian is the equavalent of being tree then indeed what you are proposing, logically, must also make sense, which it does not.

 

I agree with you that a adopted child would be Armenian if they were raised by Armenian parents, but the adopted child would only be Armenian if the parents enforced "Armenianism" on the child, which means then that the source of your identity does indeed come from interacting with your parents.

 

However, if a child was Korean would he indeed "feel Armenian" if the parents do not enforce the Armenian language, history, and culture on the child? No, he or she would not be "Armenian" nor would he or she be "Korean", but in the long run if they met a "Korean" they would have a stronger bond with a "Korean" as opposed to a "Armenian" due to the fact that ethnically and genetic they are "Korean" and "Asian".

 

Eventually, you’re definition is no different then the definition Jews use to define themselves and last time I checked being Jewish is the equivalent of being Christian, which means that if indeed what your proposing is accurate then the 6 million Armenians are not Armenian at all, but rather they are just Christians.

 

You have to impose the Armenian identity on to this Korean child, which means that you do not value his or her Korean heritage. This means that indeed what you are proposing is racist and no more genuine then what Jews do to increase their population.

[DominO123]

Vigil, I have no reason other than concluding that you try to hide the nonesubstance of your above post behind its size.

 

You're first two paragraphs have nothing to do with the subject... "Jewish" could be considered as a belief system and as an athnicity, because of its dinstinct language and culture. This is one of the reason why you end up always up thousands of words, because you introduce in the discussion things that have nothing to do with the question.

 

Secondly, you have not "destroyed" my argument, you have even not addressed what I was talking about, you came up with assumptions derived from supposed insinuations I made, that I never made. This was why I ignored you, and ignored your other post on the other thread, I was too tired to answer your rhetorics.

 

"If what you are proposing is indeed if "I think like a Armenian, I am Armenian" then equally if "I think like a tree, I must be a tree", right? Wrong, because if indeed being Armenian is the equavalent of being tree then indeed what you are proposing, logically, must also make sense, which it does not."

 

Of course, given that the proposition has nothing to do with what I've said...

 

I repeat again for the x time... it is not thinking like an Armenian... this could even not be proposed, because if I had to say something like that I would have to explain what is to think like an Armenian, which would be as difficult to answer as to ask what it takes to feel Armenian. I can as well find logically incoherencies in your posts by twisting what you said(in this cases I don't need to do that, because your twisting of my proposition and the way you answer it is a logical inconsistencies itself). What I've said, and I repeat again and again... is to think IN Armenian not like an Armenian... there is a CLEAR differences between those two. You can not think IN tree... as much as I know trees don't have a spoken coherent language invented to communicate among them. And as well, language is something cultural, and culture is something we acquired as an advanced specie... so language as a cultural "thing" could not be applied to dogs and trees.

 

"I agree with you that a adopted child would be Armenian if they were raised by Armenian parents, but the adopted child would only be Armenian if the parents enforced "Armenianism" on the child, which means then that the source of your identity does indeed come from interacting with your parents."

 

Again, you propose something that there is no way to quantify. There is absolutly no way to say how much of an "Armenianism" must be imposed for one to be an Armenian... you do not attempt to answer the question... you are even not trying it... you are just using terms, but do not explain what this means... It is like saying: "An Armenian is an Armenian."

 

"However, if a child was Korean would he indeed "feel Armenian" if the parents do not enforce the Armenian language, history, and culture on the child? No, he or she would not be "Armenian" nor would he or she be "Korean", but in the long run if they met a "Korean" they would have a stronger bond with a "Korean" as opposed to a "Armenian" due to the fact that ethnically and genetic they are "Korean" and "Asian"."

 

Again, you are not trying to answer the question, you just repeat the problem... you are telling me my definition is illogical, yet you don't even propose an alternative... I am telling you, how do you quanitify ones Armenieness... you yourself on the other thread claimed that there is no 1/4 Armenian, which I agree... but your own of trying to answer the question support the argument that in fact there could be 1/4 Armenians... because what stops me to say that since ones Armenianess is dependent of how much the parents have enforced Armenianess(see the similairities between what you propose with the statment an armenian is an Armenian?), the Armenianess of someone is dependent of the amount of Armenianess imposed? So more Imposed more Armenian, less imposed less Armenian.

 

If not! Then it means that there is a minimal recquirment for one to be an Armenian... and this is exactly what I have tried to raise... since Armenianess can not be really quantified... what I have attempted to do is to take the most shared elements among people that we can consider Armenian... my definition is indrect, because directly the question can not be answered... it is like the physicalists that try to answer to the mind-body dualistic questions, by studying the influence of the "body" on the mind... and limiting the analysis by studying the mind indirectly from the parameters of the body. This is exactly what I am doing in this cases, since I can not explain a feeling, a state(being Armenian) I just take the major shared element and uses it as bases. This is all.

 

"Eventually, you’re definition is no different then the definition Jews use to define themselves and last time I checked being Jewish is the equivalent of being Christian, which means that if indeed what your proposing is accurate then the 6 million Armenians are not Armenian at all, but rather they are just Christians."

 

You're comparing apples with oranges, and I'm sure you know that... as I said, being Jewish is not only an ethnicity but as well a belief system.

 

"You have to impose the Armenian identity on to this Korean child, which means that you do not value his or her Korean heritage. This means that indeed what you are proposing is racist and no more genuine then what Jews do to increase their population."

 

No! What I consider is not racist, I can't be a racit in the first place, because I don't even believe in the existances of races waiting the human specie. An adopted Korean child, at birth is not a Korein child, he is a pre-possible Korein child, I am not devaluating his Korean heritage, because this baby himself has only the heritage the environment in which he lives will give him. At birth no heritage, and than more the kid grows more he acquire this heritage, if he grows in an Armenian family, he'll become as much Armenian as anyone else.

Edited July 16, 2004 by Fadix

[Twilight Bark]

there is no words, no way of defining what Armenian is,

That is not true. There are two ways to "define" an Armenian, and both are alright in their domain of applicability.

1. Definition by the group

If a majority of a representative sample of Armenians agree that you can be called an Armenian, you are Armenian. It doesn't matter how you feel.

 

2. Self-definition

If you feel that you are Armenian, you are Armenian. The rest of the Armenians may not agree, but that's alright. If you are a citizen of the Republic itself, tough for "the rest". If you are not, the validity of you Armenianness is constrained into a universe of one. Tough for you, but that's alright as long as you don't mind being regarded as non-Armenian by other Armenians (whose Armenianness is subject to the same test as yours).

 

and why someone will feel Armenian.

In the context of this discussion it doesn't matter why one feels Armenian. It is sufficient to know that it is a consequence of being Armenian.

 

I think you are trying to criticise what I wrote by considering my posts for what they are not. They are not about "feeling Armenian."

I am criticizing your original linquistic conditions as well as your critique of "feeling Armenian" as a criterion.

 

And I do not believe that "feeling" Armenian is enought for someone to be considered as an Armenian

A Samoan does not wake up one fine morning and say "I am feeling Armenian today". Whatever it is that makes you "feel Armenian" most likely makes you recognizably Armenian to other Armenians (satisfying the 1st condition at the beginning of my post).

 

Try to avoid nerdy "top-down" conditions and definitions, involving clumsy sets of rules, fractions, ifs, buts, exceptions, clauses, and a whole forest of little logical branches. Such devices should be used only as a last resort. And we are not anywhere near that in this subject.

Edited July 16, 2004 by Twilight Bark

[Angelina]

Domino

you do make good points the language is a part of culture and plays big role, but what about those people ( i mean armenians) who were raised in a different country, and weren't allowed to speak their own language. Will your definition be that they are not armenians?

[Teutonic Knight]

Language is not a factor.

I speak better Armenian than a lot of Armenians and i'm not Armenian.

[Twilight Bark]

Language is not a factor.

I speak better Armenian than a lot of Armenians and i'm not Armenian.

Just because language alone is insufficient does not mean that it is not a factor. It is an important factor. But it is only one of the factors, and it is neither absolutely necessary nor sufficient to push someone over the threshold of "being sufficiently Armenian".

[Vigil]

Vigil's definition of a Armenian Version 1.0

 

In no way is "Vigil" a expert on "Armenianism". In fact no one is a expert, but eventually, as a community, we must come to concise decision as to what a "Armenian" actually is in order to push forward with our geopolitical agendas.

 

Before we begin I would like to define a few words, answer a few questions, and define the Key.

 

Definitions:

 

Ethnicity: When I refer to ethnicity I am referring to the differences between individuals and groups in skin color, language, religion, culture, national origin/nationality, or geographic regions.

 

Nationality: When I refer to nationality I am referring to an identity comprised and driven by a groups that push for statehood (I.E. Americans, Canadians, and Australians). Generally, these groups are comprised by different ethnicities and races.

 

Race: When I refer to race I am referring to visible distinctions in a population.

 

Questions:

 

Are the Armenians a religions group? No

 

Are the Armenians a political group that have motives to take over the world? No

 

Are the Armenians an ethnicity? Yes

 

Are the Armenians a nationality? Yes

 

Are the Armenians a race? Yes

 

NOTE: Visible distinctions are based on opinion. You may look at a population and see a visible distinction or you may not see a visible distinction.

 

In the case of Armenians, it is my opinion that they have a visible distinction, thus, meaning that they indeed are race.

 

Key:

 

A = in order to be Armenian this particular definition must always hold.

 

B = this particular definition by it self makes you Armenian even if none of the other definitions hold.

 

C = steps that must be taken in order to be considered Armenian by Vigil.

 

Vigil's Definition of a Armenian

 

NOTE: Definitions are in no numerical order of best to worst or vice versa.

 

1) [bC] Having a biological Armenian father and mother. When I refer to Armenian I am referring to an Armenian that also has or had a biological Armenian father and mother. When I refer to biological I am referring to Armenian lineage and genes.

 

NOTE: If you are half Armenian you are not biologically Armenian in terms of genes and lineage. In this circumstance you may not be looked upon as an Armenian by Armenians, but because you define yourself as an Armenian you can make sure your descendents are looked upon as Armenian by marrying in the Armenian ethnicity, race, and nationality, which might counter any effects of the “otar” biologically and sociologically.

 

2) [ABC] Being raised under the supervision of a legal guardian and or parents that are of Armenian descent. When I mean "raised" what I am referring to is the strict ideals, morals, and expected behavior that is transmitted from generation to generation that eventually, comes together to form the basic identity of a ethnicity, nationality, and or race.

 

3) [C] Understanding, learning, and enforcing the study of the Armenian language, history, and culture upon your children.

 

NOTE: The study of the Armenian language, history, and culture for academic and or commercial reasons does in no way mean you are Armenian. When I refer to academic I am referring to the time taken to learn the Armenian language as a second language and or the research conducted on the language, history, and culture. When I refer to commercial I am referring to the time taken to learn the Armenian language, history, and culture for commercial needs like running a business with Armenians and Armenia.

 

4) [AC] Defining yourself a Armenian.

 

5) [AC] Wanting to maintain your Armenian identity even under the most physically and mentally debilitating conditions.

 

6) Being accepted as an Armenian by the Armenians domestically and abroad.

 

7) [C] Defining yourself as a Armenian before defining yourself as part of any other nationality (I.E. American, Canadian, or Australian).

 

NOTE: This definition only holds if you consider yourself [insert Nationality Here] as opposed to Armenian. What I mean by this is that if you define yourself as Armenian-[insert Nationality Here] then you have a chance to be defined a Armenian by Armenians if all the other definitions hold. As a Armenian-[insert Nationality Here] you must try you’re best to improve relations between Armenia and the current country you reside in.

 

However, this exception to the rule is voided if you are living in Turkey or Azerbaijan.

 

8) Being born in Armenia and or being raised in Armenia.

 

NOTE: This rule has been implemented due to the fact that Armenia is a republic, which means that as a republic Armenians would have to accept anyone as Armenian if they are born in and or pay taxes to Armenia.

Edited July 17, 2004 by Vigil

[DominO123]

TB. I think the main problem is that people took this thread a little too seriously and I ended up falling in my own game.

 

My thread was an answer to one member in another thread again bringing the thing of what is to be an Armenian... he claimed that it took two parents for one to become an Armenian etc... I answered by starting a thread myself by posting rules, as an answer to someones rules for being an Armenian.

 

I didn't fell in my own game only because of that, I fell as well because your two definitions are the arguments I have used on another board to explain one of the mutiverse theories.

 

- If you think you're Jesus, for yourself you are Jesus, but for others you are not.

 

- If others think you are Jesus, for them you are Jesus, but for you, you are not.

 

- If you and others think you are Jesus, you are Jesus, for everyone.

 

I have used similar analogies about another domain.

 

But those are results, not really what it takes(you yourself agree with me on this)... someone for himself might be Armenian according to himself if he consider himself Armenian, but what does it take? And I remind you here that beside one of my rules, all of them were about the observer(me) and whom I consider as an Armenian... you're first definition recognise the role of the outsider(those that think one is Armenian)... as an outsider I gave my view about whom is an Armenian, and again many times I specified that those were my rules... and whom I do consider as an Armenian... what I proposed are commonly share similarities among people that the "outsider" consider one Armenian.

 

My rules doesn't say knowing Armenian is enough to be considered as an Armenian..., according to my rules, if you know Armenian and that none of your parents is Armenian, it would take more than knowing the language. On the other hand one of my rules doesn't even require the knowledge of the language.

 

I just thought about whom I do consider as an Armenian and came up with rules about it... this again does not include the perspective of the person whom consider to be an Armenian.

 

Oh and, I can not place language as a factor like others... you lose the language, and it is the end of your Armenian lineage, if your children do not learn it... it is finished. I do not believe that just because one will cook Armenian food or like Armenian music it means he's an Armenian, this person could consider himself Armenian, and for himself he'll be an Armenian, but so as if this person feel being Japanese. I know the critic you will come with here... you'll probably say that it takes many things for one to feel Armenian... he won't just feel Armenian without reason... but this from the point of view of the outsider has no value, for the outsider there is things for him that it takes to consider a person an Armenian. .. I just looked around me and medited about whom from those people I do consider Armenian, and why... and from this why I set my rules.

 

 

 

 

Vigil, there are conflicts in this definition you present with your previous views... I can't answer without knowing which of your views taking into considerations. Read your definitions and I think you'll see what might be those conflicts.

 

 

 

 

"you do make good points the language is a part of culture and plays big role, but what about those people ( i mean Armenians) who were raised in a different country, and weren't allowed to speak their own language. Will your definition be that they are not armenians?"

 

Angelina, not allowing to speak the language is a way of assimilating a group, to coming a cultural genocide, and forcibly transferring a group into another. If you read the UN convention about genocide, transferring a group into another is a genocide... therefore it could mean that no they are not Armenians anymore, because a cultural genocide was committed to transfer this group into another. But here, I am understanding your concerns, but you are going to the extremes here. If a people loose its language, it's looses its major way of distinguishing itself from the rest... don't forget, that an important part of the culture dies with it, such as art, literature, any written part of their history that is transmitted by this language... language is not only about language... so I can't just compare it with other elements.

[gamavor]

My very rudimentary understanding is that an Armenian is someone who is not American, African or Eskimo.

 

 

Ah Columbus, F.... your curiosity!

[Vigil]

Vigil, there are conflicts in this definition you present with your previous views... I can't answer without knowing which of your views taking into considerations. Read your definitions and I think you'll see what might be those conflicts.

 

Domino, please specify, thanks.

 

This is a beta version, which is why I want as much input as I can get.

 

On a side note I was watching the video today on Artshak and this one woman was saying how she volunteered because if she did not no one would.

 

Anyways, when asked why her husband did not join her she explained how he was Russian and because he was Russian felt it was not "his war" because it was not "his land", which is something to think about. Please do not retort with the hippie ideology that "I am pacifist" because there is no way in hell you can avoid war. If it does not erupt in you’re lifetime it will erupt in you’re children's lifetime.

Edited July 17, 2004 by Vigil

[Vigil]

My very rudimentary understanding is that an Armenian is someone who is not American, African or Eskimo.

 

American is more of a nationality due to the fact that there is no American race and or ethnicity. The American population is a melting pot that consists of different races and ethnicities, which are unified under a national interest and or ideology.

 

When I mean race and or ethnicity I am referring to the definition in my previous post.

 

You can be American and Armenian, but you can not be African-American and Armenian-American. Equally, you can not be Canadian and American, but you can be Armenian and Canadian.

Edited July 17, 2004 by Vigil

[gamavor]

You can be American and Armenian,

 

I disagree, but I'm ready to fight for your right to speak up your mind!

 

An Armenian is ONLY a person who is Armenian National. All the rest (of us) are ethnically Armenians - meaning blood line, language, social and cultural habits, etc...

[Vigil]

I disagree, but I'm ready to fight for your right to speak up your mind!

 

Thanks and I apologize for confusion.

 

Yes, you are right, nationally you are American and ethnically you are Armenian. This was my original point and I am sorry I confused you.

Edited July 18, 2004 by Vigil

[DominO123]

4) [AC] Defining yourself a Armenian.

Here one, doesn't think contradict what you've been saying for long?

 

To clarify things, is this sufficiant to be an Armenian for you?

[Teutonic Knight]

I disagree, but I'm ready to fight for your right to speak up your mind!

 

An Armenian is ONLY a person who is Armenian National. All the rest (of us) are ethnically Armenians - meaning blood line, language, social and cultural habits, etc...

EXACTLY

 

Only those who are citizens of Armenia or live and pay taxes in Armenia are Armenians. Everyone else is of Armenian heritage.

[shaunt]

http://www.sparknotes.com/philosophy/bluea...own/themes.html

 

That is relevant to this topic.

[Vigil]

Here one, doesn't think contradict what you've been saying for long?

 

I thought about it for a while and to be honest everyone has their own definition of what an Armenian is, which is why it is very hard to actually define an Armenian. For instance the dictionary defines an Armenian as "a native or inhabitant of Armenia". This definition does not give Armenians justice due to the fact that fifty percent of ethnic Armenians reside outside of Armenia, which is why we must be open to each Armenians own definition of a Armenian.

 

However, in no way must we merge the lines that separate ethnic Armenians from national Armenians because once we are reduced to being only a nationality the entire Diaspora goes extinct as do our claims to be labeled a ethnicity.

 

We must stress the fact that Armenians are first and foremost an ethnicity before they are a nationality.

 

Being Armenian is not just "feeling" and "defining" yourself an Armenian. It is a very complex to define due to the fact that Armenians can be considered an ethnicity, race, and nationality based on the definitions of these words.

 

If Armenians are an ethnic group then there is no way someone of Korean descent could actually be Armenian and vice versa, which is why there would be no way to actually convert a Korean into an Armenian.

 

In fact the idea of "converting" at this point has no meaning because if we assume that being Armenian is indeed just a ideology then it would make being Armenian the equivalent of being part of a religious group, thus, being Armenian is not just a ideology.

 

If Armenians are a nationality then there is no way an American of Armenian descent could be considered Armenian. You can not pledge your loyalty to the American national interests, while at the same time remaining loyal to Armenian national interests.

 

For the sake of argument you can support both by connecting American national interests with that of the Armenian, which is why I pointed out the fact that if you are Armenian-American you can still be considered Armenian if you better the dialogue between both nations. Nevertheless, at the very end you have to support one over the other.

 

Furthermore, If Armenians are a race then the Armenian race is not just limited to the Armenian ethnicity in terms of visual distinctions. You may have other ethnic groups that may look "Armenian" racially, which is why it would be incorrect to label Armenians as only a race.

 

Armenians are ethnicity because they indeed have a unique culture that is different then any other. They are a nationality because today Armenia is a republic that unites citizens of different ethnic and racial backgrounds under the banner of an ideology that is uniquely Armenian, while they are race because they have a dominant visual distinction among their population domestically and abroad. This is why I define Armenians as a race, ethnicity, and a nationality.

 

To clarify things, is this sufficiant to be an Armenian for you?

 

Yes and No, yes, because you need to define yourself an Armenian, but no, in that by defining yourself an Armenian in no way are you actually Armenian. For instance if I define myself Japanese am I really Japanese? No, furthermore, what would make me not define myself Russian or Mexican later? Virtually nothing, which is why to base your definition of what a Armenians solely on the fact that they define themselves as a Armenian would be a poor analysis of what a Armenian actually is.

 

Domino, basically, all my definitions of what an Armenian is must hold, however, in no way must all of them be met to be considered a Armenian by another Armenian. I may decide that only three of the conditions must be valid in order to be an Armenian, while another Armenian may only need one of the definitions to be met in order to consider someone an Armenian.

 

For instance, in my opinion I feel that reading and writing Armenian is important, but to honestly expect every Armenian born in a English speaking country to learn it when in fact only a very small portion of the population can speak it is a very high expectation.

 

However, in no way am I supporting the decline of actually learning to read and write in Armenian, but just feel that being Armenian is more then just learning the language.

 

Honestly, how many Armenians are reading our literature? How many of them know about the history? How many of them keep up with current affairs? I would guess a very small portion of the Diaspora, which leads me to not place a lot of emphasis on defining a Armenian as someone that actively takes time to learn the language, history, and or cultural traditions.

 

I feel that learning the language, history, and or cultural traditions is an important step in being defined an Armenian, but let’s face it, we would not be considered Japanese if we learned the language, history, and cultural traditions of Japan.

 

Being Armenian, in general, is defining you’re self an Armenian, being raised in a family consisting of an Armenian father and mother, and wanting to pass the Armenian identity on to the next generation. However, in no way am I stating that this is the only way to define an Armenian because everyone has their own standards.

 

I just do not want Armenians to base their definitions on technicalities like "if you’re mother is Armenian you are Armenian" or "if you generally feel Armenian your Armenian" because to be honest those do not amount to anything besides technicalities.

 

In closing I would like to stress that Armenians can be defined as Armenian by race, ethnicity, or nationality.

Edited July 19, 2004 by Vigil