Sasun Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 I still don't understand Anoushik and Sev-mard. Probably you are looking at the disaster as an isolated opportunity for God to act as saviour of life or otherwise. Just look at the bigger picture, not just 9-11. Religion says (basically) pray to God and/or meditate on God to receive protection. If you seek protection then you will find, if you don't seek then why are you surprised that you don't receive. Would it be fair that those who aspire and have a spiritual life putting away their desires and sacrificing much in life have the same treatment by God as someone who loaths religion and the idea of God. What kind of justice would that be? Having said this, all people from a saint down to the most despicable criminal are children of God. Nobody could bear the burden of sins for even a second without God's compassion and protection. So, if you are complaining that God is not fair, I suggest to contemplate a bit more. Are you really fair by saying this, do you really see the bigger picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted January 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Whether or not God exists is irrelevant. The fact is that we are now here on Earth, in this material world, where there is both happiness and suffering, and sometimes good things happen to people and sometimes bad things happen to people. If people want to believe and worship God is fine, but they should do so tactfully. I used that woman as an example because it illustrates exactly what I mean. When a big tragedy, like 9-11 happens and so many people die and only one person survives is not tactful to claim publicly that she survived because there is a God who helped her. If she believes that it's fine, but she should keep it private. Not to mention, I am sure she wasn't the only one who cried for God when the buildings collapsed and there were religious people who died. How do the family members of those who died feel when survivors say that they were favored? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Anoushik, on this question we are on very different pages. For me it is never irrelevant whether God exists or not. I understand that people whose relatives have died would feel bad understandably and maybe jealous, but why can't they feel a little happy that this woman has survived? Is that really bad? Should she have been killed too? Should she pretend that she is not happy to be alive? I see nothing untactful here, perhaps timing could be an issue, but still... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted January 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Yes, Sasun, we have different viewpoints on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 (edited) People praying to God for material rewards (including temporal life) don't have a clue about Christianism. Their mindset is paganistic. Have you taken a look at the links I provided or did I post in vain? The worth of Christianity and the unworthiness of Christians Edited January 10, 2004 by axel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted January 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Axel, you didn't put it in vain, I did take a look at the link. But it's besides the point. I'n not talking about Christianity, but about God. I have always been Christian - meaning, I believe in the major teachings of Christianity and I will continue to believe it.  Personally, I think Christianity is a very humane religion. But I don't believe in the traditional existence of God. That's all.  Please read my previous posts. Your above post is unnecessary. I never made comments such as God doesn't answer people's prayers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Anoushik, I did take a look at the link. But it's besides the point. I'n not talking about Christianity, but about God I guess you didn't look at this one then   You cannot separate God from Christianism for Christianism is the religion of God-Man and the religion of Faith not a humanistic philosophy or a set of moral principles. Morality or rather moralism is degenerate spirituality. In one of my readings, I came upon the following quote by Lao-Tseu, I paraphrase: when Meaning is lost then so is Life, When Life is lost then so is Love, when Love is lost then so is Justice when Justice is lost then so is custom. (here custom/tradition is equivalent to moralism, that is dead spirituality fossilized into a moral code) Custom is lack of fidelity and lack of faith and the beginning of confusion. Of course from a materialistic perspective, the distinction between morality and spirituality is not understandable. Spirituality and Faith are beyond the reach of utilitarian minds. And what characterizes american minds is precisely that: utilitarism, productivism, narrow rationalism... so it is no wonder that this land has not seen the blossom of the Spirit, that christianism has degenerated on its soil into such legalistic forms as "biblical christianism" with its emphasis on the bible and the law. The truth is american civilization will not give birth to a Bach or a Brueghel and the reason why is because it is soulless.  Understanding the true nature of Art that is selfless in essence and is the reflection of the transcendental and the sacred is a way to apprehend God as Armat rightfully suggests. There is another one and that is the confrontation with evil. In any circumstance, Faith is a matter of personal experience. From a christian standpoint, it has to do with the idea of Grace. www.stgregoryofnarek.am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 I actually hate this too. If you believe in God and that "heaven" is a better place, why are people always saying that God was with them, and spared them. Especially in an event like 9-11 when so many other "good" people died as well. It's just tacky, and you were just "lucky". Nothing significant as death happens by accident, it may look like lucky or unlucky but there is a reason for all those things. Maybe God took all those people and left you here? Normally not a big deal, but in this case it seems insensitive and bad form. But then again it's a human reaction when surviving near death experiences, to automatically attribute it to God saving them, watching over them. Life and death are both normal and necessary, its just a matter of meaningful life and timely death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 nicely put Axel jan, apres...Christianism is based on the relation of man and God, and Fait is built right in...  Infact i think we can say that there is no such thing as atheism.. lol... anoushik jan, if you agree with the existance of chritianity, then you cant deny God. i ask this question to atheists,,, if there is no God what hope do you have of life, what keeps everyone (not just a small percentage) from going out and just raping every woman they see, or killing there children cause they are annoying, or torturing there kids etc.... So many bad things that we are all perfectly capable of doing, what keeps us from doing it? the law? LOL.. the law is a joke, look at OJ simpson, and he got off the hard way.. it easy to kill, and escape, thousands do it allready what keeps everyone else from doin it.. It is the ackowledgment and fear of something bigger than themselves, something that has control over their lives, it scares people from doing all the things i described... Its that fear that keeps us in place.. I will be the first to admit, Christians (and people who call themselves so) are the biggest problem to christianism... Axels story link is pretty good at explaining that... But not all are like that, and most all other christians who trully beleive and not just say they do will ask forgivness from God because we as humans are literally incapable of not sinning.. (well technically we are capable of sinning, but only pur man was jesus 2002 years ago...  If you are a christian for real, not just say you are, then you beleive in God and Fait and everything the Bible says.. The Bibles integrity has been challenged many times, but it still stands because it has power of word to action... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 It is the ackowledgment and fear of something bigger than themselves, something that has control over their lives, it scares people from doing all the things i described... Its that fear that keeps us in place.. No my friend, I beg to differ. Fear of God is not what Jesus taught, therefore it is not Christian. True faith and fear are totally different things. We do good because there is divine in us, not because we are afraid. Many atheists do good for the same reason although they don't realize that (obviously they don't fear God as they don't believe in the first place). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted January 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 i ask this question to atheists,,, if there is no God what hope do you have of life, what keeps everyone (not just a small percentage) from going out and just raping every woman they see, or killing there children cause they are annoying, or torturing there kids etc.... So many bad things that we are all perfectly capable of doing, what keeps us from doing it? the law? Gevo, in the websites I posted they answer your questions very well. Here it is again. atheism Basically, the bottom line is that we, as human beings, are social animals and we depend on each other for our survival and existance. Religion or no religion humans have always created certain laws to maintain some kind of order so that we can continue to survive and reproduce.  Some people are selfish and lack the ability to put themselves into others' people shoes and understand their pain, and some people are extremely caring and others use this for their own benefit. Religion only changes a few people towards doing good to others if they are not born with it. Personally, my parents raised me with the understanding of to treat others like I want to be treated. I wouldn't call my family religious, since the only time I went to Church was when my grandma stayed with us for a couple of months and we had to take her to Church. But I do call my family Christian because in every sense my parents are Christian. They are very gracious and have always helped people and everyone knows they can depend on my parents (to the point that sometimes they are very aware that they are being used). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 (edited) From your link Anoushik We must look to materialistic philosophy which alone enables men to understand reality and to know how to deal with it. There is no such term as materialistic philosophy.. lol.. we have another georg Bush writing this paper? its like saying QUOTE GEORGE BUSH "startegery" lmao... anyways, thats besides the point, this lady is making bold statements which in no way is backed up by anything else she says... plus, the materialistic world, we can refer to as science, is based on Theories (must we define what a theory is)?... Basically, the bottom line is that we, as human beings, are social animals and we depend on each other for our survival and existance. There are very few people other than my family i can trust with my life, we are still very selfish... and splitting your candy bar doesnt make you "unselfish".. lol Also, that lady failed to answer my questions concrening where we are from? I know what you are saying about your parents being really nice and unselfish and stuff,, trust me thats how i feel also, but will your parents agree to there own deaths, or the deaths of you (there children) in order for 10 people to be saved, or happy.. I dont think so, I know i prbably wouldnt, nor my parents... entanik@ aveli kaghster ah! LOL.. thus we are being selfish, so we are all selfish, some more than others. No my friend, I beg to differ. Fear of God is not what Jesus taught, therefore it is not Christian. True faith and fear are totally different things. We do good because there is divine in us, not because we are afraid. Many atheists do good for the same reason although they don't realize that (obviously they don't fear God as they don't believe in the first place). You are right, fear of God is not what Jesus was teaching:: BTW...You just acknowledged the relationship and existance of God and Jesus ::: Let me expolain with this example, if your mom told you that if you write on the wall i will slap you and you will have some time in the corner. Now if you write on the wall and she doesnt do anything, thus your actions baring no consequences, then you will repeat, and again she doesnt do anything, you will say... ha, no problem, i can do that if i want to. But if you were to write and she came up to you, reprimended you and you spent an hour or 2 in the corner, you would most likely not repeat that action... and if you did, the same consequences, then seriously you would get the point. ... So, i didnt mean that we have to live and fear God "only", Jesus thaught love, compasion, forgiveness, etc... But we have to fear God in order to obey him in a sense, because if you dont fear him, as in there is nothing he can do to you, then you would obey him as much, or at all... We do good because there is divine in us Websters dictionary:Entry:  divine Function:  adjective Definition:  perfect Synonyms:  all-powerful, almighty, ambrosial, angelic, anointed, beatific, beautiful, blissful, celestial, consecrated, deific, deistic, eternal, exalted, excellent, glorious, godly, hallowed, heavenly, holy, immaculate, magnificent, marvelous, mystical, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, perfect, rapturous, religious, sacramental, sacred, sacrosanct, sanctified, spiritual, splendid, superhuman, superlative, supernatural, supreme, theistic, transcendent, transcendental, unearthly, wonder Antonyms:  imperfect, profane, unholy Concept:  superiority There is devine in us,, LMAO.. YEAH RIGHT! there is good in us yes, but we are by far the least devine beings on this planet..  Many atheists do good for the same reason although they don't realize that (obviously they don't fear God as they don't believe in the first place). Well, the reason they do good, is because they are not doing bad, and that is because of laws, and research the root of laws and you will find most, (especially the constitution of the USA) have christian roots, and christian based ethics... Where else has a book been written about life and how to live it, that states no contradictions, no commandment for people to do bad, and only teaches love, forgiveness...etc... Not to mention its nearly 2000 years old, and the most read, researched and helpful book of all time... The Holy Bible is Devine, not Humans.. lol... Edited January 12, 2004 by gevo27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 Let me expolain with this example, if your mom told you that if you write on the wall i will slap you and you will have some time in the corner. Now if you write on the wall and she doesnt do anything, thus your actions baring no consequences, then you will repeat, and again she doesnt do anything, you will say... ha, no problem, i can do that if i want to. But if you were to write and she came up to you, reprimended you and you spent an hour or 2 in the corner, you would most likely not repeat that action... and if you did, the same consequences, then seriously you would get the point. Gevo, it is good that you acknowledge fear is not Christian (meaning taught by Christ). Then you explain how some mothers discipline children. But when the child grows up this method doesn't work any longer, right? At any rate, it is the human way of disciplining. The mother acts against the free will of the child forcefully (understandably for the child's own benefit), whereas God has given us free will but never forcefully acts against our free will. So there is a fundamental difference between human and divine ways. As conscious adults rather than foolish kids we have to do the right thing not out of fear of God but for the love of God. There is devine in us,, LMAO.. YEAH RIGHT! there is good in us yes, but we are by far the least devine beings on this planet..     Well, the reason they do good, is because they are not doing bad, and that is because of laws, and research the root of laws and you will find most, (especially the constitution of the USA) have christian roots, and christian based ethics... Where else has a book been written about life and how to live it, that states no contradictions, no commandment for people to do bad, and only teaches love, forgiveness...etc... Not to mention its nearly 2000 years old, and the most read, researched and helpful book of all time... The Holy Bible is Devine, not Humans.. lol... So are you saying that normal people are not criminals because there is a law? I disagree with this, it maybe true for some people but not for most people. I never want to steal its just not in me, I am not a thief. A lot of people are like that, the law doesn't matter. Do you see my point? Another important thing, many good actions are done voluntarily, there is no law saying you have to help people, you have to love your family, you have to take care of your parents, you have to forgive, so on and so forth... its just the human nature that has goodness regardless of the law, your argument is unjustified. This goodness is what I refer to as 'divine'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 (edited) Anoushik - nice post. And gevo - i don't believe in gods and i don't do these terrible things...and I know of many instances in history when terrible things have been done in the NAME of Christianity - Crusades, inquisition, many many more... (not to mention all that old testament stuff)...yeah your god basically really sucks...and you too Sasun - your is the god of losers...what can I say...for what you are saying is that some higher being felt that it was necessary for my family to be killed horribly and all our people slain...and I'm not about to let the Turks off so easily - as you imply - that they were just carrying out gods will...etc And BTW - the founding fathers of the US were by and large not Christian - at least not at all as you would accept such - they were deists. Yeah check out the links: http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/founders.htm http://www.postfun.com/pfp/worbois.html And be sure to check out the site - the Miss Poppy page link also has a nice bit on Christianity and homosexuals... Edited January 12, 2004 by THOTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 Also a must - (mature audiences only...even a discalimer to such on the page folks Ok...after all its the bible were talking about... http://www.postfun.com/pfp/NC-17Bible.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 Oh and gevo - the folowing assertion was unamously approved by the US Senate in 1797:Â "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 and you too Sasun - your is the god of losers...what can I say...for what you are saying is that some higher being felt that it was necessary for my family to be killed horribly and all our people slain...and I'm not about to let the Turks off so easily - as you imply - that they were just carrying out gods will...etc That's not true - I didn't say that, you don't understand what I said... and no, my God is not a God of losers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted January 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 There are very few people other than my family i can trust with my life, we are still very selfish... Gevo, after this quote you needn't say more. I know what kind of person you are. You are skeptic towards humanity. You don't believe that human beings can do good and you don't trust them because you know you shouldn't be trusted yourself. Unfortunately most "true" Christians are like you and they have the same outlook on life like you do. I have yet to meet a devoted Christian who, aside from having faith in God, also has faith in humanity. My family and I can be trusted because we know that we trust others. And we are lucky since wherever we go we always find people who are trustworthy. I am sorry that you haven't experienced this much in your life, but maybe if you changed your attitude towards humans and realized that humans have a lot of potential to be good you'd notice more people whom you can trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 Sasun, the mother and child example was meant to show how fear works, not how we fear out parents.. Your right Sasun, God has given us free will,, without it none of this would happen. So are you saying that normal people are not criminals because there is a law? No i am not saying that at all, because i know if the law were to change and killing people ad no consequences i wouldnt kill anyone atill... But your missing my point, or im not being clear enough probably... But your argument of humannatur stands no ground in that human nature is relative. We can do whatever we want and say its human nature, we would have nothing to judge it by if there was no God. We couldnt call anything good, or bad, or wrong or right.. Think about it as our world is today, we can marry only one husband or wife at a time in our society right? Well then is polygamy right or wrong? because other societies are polygamus and ours isnt... My point is (to clarify) if there was no God, human nature as you see it meansnothing to me, cause i dont see it that way, and then who is to judge that? I'm not about to let the Turks off so easily - as you imply - that they were just carrying out gods will...etc THOT: The people responsible for the collaps of the twin towers were also doing it in gods name... Do you think i agree to it? No.. I not once said that if people do something in gods name then they are doing gods will, thats why there is a difference to me between god & GOD... No offense THOT, please dont refer me to anymore satir website making fun of the Bible, yes it is offensive.... Oh and gevo - the folowing assertion was unamously approved by the US Senate in 1797: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." LOL.. I cant beleive you THOT, what else will you compare the rules of the constitution with, "humanities goodness"? lol... sure man whatever the congress says is right... after this quote you needn't say more. I know what kind of person you are. You do? I dont wanna quote the rest of your post anoushik jan, but i was offended sort of... I donth see how you can tell what kind of person i am from one sentence... But that aside, I have faith in humanity for the very reason you guys claim we are good, the goodness in us (i just dont like where you guys say our goodness is from ) I am skeptic towards humanity, but i do beleive human beings can do good, I mean think about it how could i not agree that human beings "can" do good.. I myself have helped stranded motorists, i have put myself in a lesser position for friends, i have taken blame for other people, i have helped many many times other people even though its a my own cost, i do good. It would be absolutely hypocritical if i were to say human beings are not/dont have goodnes n them..  I am a christian, and you have met me so you have met a devoted christian who has faith both in God and the majority of humanity.  I am sorry that you haven't experienced this much in your life Anoushik Please dont be sorry or worry about me, and dont tell everyone how my life has been without knowing what you really are saying and what my life has realy been like. (no offense) THOT, I understand sort of where your faith has diminished in God. Sounds like from your post: your is the god of losers...what can I say...for what you are saying is that some higher being felt that it was necessary for my family to be killed horribly and all our people slain...and I'm not about to let the Turks off so easily - as you imply - that they were just carrying out gods will...etc Your family being murdered has nothing to do on the decisions of God, remember there is 2 sides to this, free will and Gods will... As im sure you know you have the ability to make any chice you want, and God cant change ur mind. If u choos to buy a green car, you will buy a green car, you wont wake up next morning saying "God has changed my decision, i want a blue car".. in other words, i hope you dont beleive that the turks murdered millions of Armenian brothers and sisters in the name of God, no whatever god they called to does not exist, (sounds bold to say i know) but then we would have to get in to the roost of christianity to discuss that... I know that you guys have a profile f me in yourheads now, that im bigot, arrogant, bold, maybe stupid, u might think im another fake christian, even call me a hypocrit... But what you think of me does not change reality.. And no i do not think im smarter than you as i see many people writing in theses forums that have better grammer, more understanding of subjects, etc... But i have seen to many things that are true about christianity (and nothing that can falsify it) to give into secularism (another george bush term So i will defend the Bible... Answer this question please: what will it take to make you see that truth of christianity, to beleive in GOD.??.. and please dont give childish answers like, (see God himself etc..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 (edited) Well this conversation reminds me of the movie Andrei Rublev which is a reflection on evil, faith and art. It is a succession of episodes in the life of a reknowned fifteenth century russian icon painter showing his inner struggle, his hopes and his deceptions. Among the numerous characters emerges the trinity Kiril, Andrei and Danila all three, monks, who may symbolically be related to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Kiril's God is a vengeful God, a God of fear reminiscent of the one of the old testament whereas Andrei's is one of Love and redemption. In the scene 'the passion according to Andrei" Rublev engages into a dialogue with another painter, Theophanes the Greek. Theophanes argues he believes in God and not in man, that Good may only exist within oneself. Andrei agrees to the fact that Man does evil yet he affirms his faith in the reconciliation between man and God arguing it was precisely for that purpose that God sent his Son. In another scene, Andrei refuses to paint the scene of the Last Judgment precisely for the reason he doesn't want to scare people. Andrei Rublev by Andrei Tarkovsky Faith in Man and Faith in God are interleaved. When I say Faith in Man, I don't mean humanism!! (which divinises man) but faith in man's ability to elevate himself towards God. The following text I already mentionned a number of times is extremely relevant in this regard: The Grand Inquisitor (from the Brothers Karamazov) PS: This is my last message.  Gevo jan, keep cool and don't pay much attention to THOTH's provocations. He has great spiritual problems. He would not be a militant atheist otherwise. Faith is Life. What does he have to offer in replacement? Not much, perhaps something called absurdity. Edited January 12, 2004 by axel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 Well this conversation reminds me of the movie Andrei Rublev which is a reflection on evil, faith and art. That movie is pure masterpiece. I bought it and watched at least ten times still amazing. I also love other Tarkovsky's movies like Solaris which I own as well.Not to switch this thread on movie talk but I agree with you Axel on content. I always feel slight uneasy talking about core believes since the very subjective nature of it and becouse of it I believe no two persons see things on same levels and therefore Christianity and other religions always understood from a perspective from where the individual's development stands. One can be totally ignorant (slave,machine) believer and commit most horrific crimes and justify it on his faith.I think Anoushik hints the hypocrisy of believers who use religion as an excuse to cover their own shortcomings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 No i am not saying that at all, because i know if the law were to change and killing people ad no consequences i wouldnt kill anyone atill... But your missing my point, or im not being clear enough probably... But your argument of humannatur stands no ground in that human nature is relative. We can do whatever we want and say its human nature, we would have nothing to judge it by if there was no God. We couldnt call anything good, or bad, or wrong or right.. Think about it as our world is today, we can marry only one husband or wife at a time in our society right? Well then is polygamy right or wrong? because other societies are polygamus and ours isnt... My point is (to clarify) if there was no God, human nature as you see it meansnothing to me, cause i dont see it that way, and then who is to judge that? Gevo, I am not sure what your arguement is about You are not very clear but I think I understand approximately what you are saying. You probably misunderstood about what I meant about human nature: in a nutshell, we are a mix of good and evil, the good being our divine part, and evil being the lack of divine. When I say divine I don't understand it separately from God, of course we couldn't exist without God and our divinity is only due to God. Man and God can't be viewed separately. Like Jesus said, Kingdom of Heaven is inside us (every man and woman). So when I say we are divine I don't mean anything more or less. Hope now it is more clear, hang out a bit longer and we will learn about each other more  Answer this question please: what will it take to make you see that truth of christianity, to beleive in GOD.??.. and please dont give childish answers like, (see God himself etc..) Before you ask this qeustion ask Thoth about his alias and that should give you a lot of clue about his belief system ("Thoth" is a name of an egyptian god, and Thoth the forumer claims not to believe in gods, so basically he is the only god in his view ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 Thoth I never understood why you keep saying the obvious about Chirstianity,God etc. which have nothing to do with faith... It is a personnal matter meaning one finds what one needs.You are obviously satisfied in your conclusions and great for you but why the hostility towards people who have faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted January 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 I donth see how you can tell what kind of person i am from one sentence... But that aside, I have faith in humanity for the very reason you guys claim we are good, the goodness in us (i just dont like where you guys say our goodness is from ) I am skeptic towards humanity, but i do beleive human beings can do good, I mean think about it how could i not agree that human beings "can" do good.. Ok Gevo, you're right, I don't know you and I shouldn't claim that I know what kind of person you are. But to just believe that the "divine" and the goodness in us comes from God for me sounds just as absurd as it sounds absurd to you when I say no, it doesn't. I have no idea where that goodness is from, and to be honest, I couldn't care more. I still haven't denied the existence of a higher being (we simply don't know whether there is a higher being or not) but I don't think our goodness comes from that higher being, therefore I won't call that higher being God. If it were to come from God, why didn't He wish that more people be good? Or did He wish so but wasn't able to accomplish that? In any case, when I say that I am an atheist means that I don't believe in the traditional omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 (edited) Thoth I never understood why you keep saying the obvious about Chirstianity,God etc. which have nothing to do with faith... It is a personnal matter meaning one finds what one needs.You are obviously satisfied in your conclusions and great for you but why the hostility towards people who have faith. TOUCH!!! This was exactly my point. More so, when Thoth has other supernatural beliefs that may be considered by some more senseless than Christianity. I don't like what this thread has become, it was interesting first, but now it is a atheist vs christianity kind of war. Where two religious systems, theism and atheim are confronted. Edited January 12, 2004 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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