Preservation of Armenian identity

[Sasun]

do you think it is a "simple"matter to drive a whole diaspora into extinction?!!

Unfortunately, it is a very simple matter. You don't have to do anything, Time will take care of it. Huge efforts are needed to keep the diaspora alive. Much of those efforts should be directed at explaining why this is important, and how the goal can be achieved.

I appreciate Armenian Pirate's efforts but I don't think his approach is correct and will convince many people (on a side note, the choice of the alias "Pirate" does not speak well for the cause. not that it is my personal business in anyway, just a thought)

 

Yes they are in fact repressed to an unhealthy degree, at very least more so than your average level of taboo on the topic when compared to 85% of other cultures. Obviously Armenians are having sex when married, but the notion of having a sexual relationship with someone of the other sex long before you’re ready to marry them is shunned in a very fanatical manner in our community, I see this as a problem, one of many, but a problem never the less. It drives our youth apart from each other for no other reason except the fact that the girl feels afraid of persecution and the guy has to overcome stigmas by the girl of him being a judgmental prick if she decides to have a wild night of sex with him. All 1500 of you know this to be true, there is no denying it and it definitely is not exaggerated, Sasun jan. So it’s time to change things, and it begins with stripping ourselves of these conditioned notions that we hold against each respective opposite sex and ALSO believing that changing these old stigmas is possible, nothing is inevitable, NOTHING.

 

Well, from my own experience this is not any major issue and has little role in the assimilation of the diaspora. Maybe your experience tells otherwise that's why you say this. Both our views are subjective. In order to convince people that Armenians are sexually repressed you need to show a study based on valid data

[Armat]

THe AP thanks for your response ,honestly, but you needed not worry me confusing you with Vigil.I was simply answering Vigil's post.This thread does have many pages

[-=VAHE=-]

But its really sad phenomina here when you see parskahyes who have kept cultural values and everything for over 500 years in Iran but when they come to America and even Glendale they suddenly have forgotten or refuse to speak Armenian in 7 years or so. I'm refering to the Youth and even some adults.

[_Anka_]

Why are Armenians so obssesed about their own identity and their own culture. Why do we think that we're the best nation on this planet and that we're "special". Says who? Let people marry to whomever they want, who cares? It's their own life and they know what's best for them. It is not your place to judge anyone. I don't want to sound like some of the "intelectualls" that Armenian Pirate was reffering to because I don't care much about it.I just don't really care about what other Armenians do and I don't really care about other Armenians because everyone has their own life to think about. Some Armenians need to get a life and not be so closed minded. They need to understand that we're not perfect and we are just like other nations and ethnic groups in the world, nothing speacial...

So what that we're an ancient race??? and? I don't think that it makes us so special or that it gives us a reason to be so closed minded towards other people. We need to understand that nobody gives a damn about our ancient history except us. Don't forget that one of the reasons that Armenians still exist is the fact that Armenia is a mountanous region so therefore when one part of Armenia got conquered the other part was free and people were able to keep their identity. What I'm trying to say is that our survival had to do with other factors that were out of our control and I'm sure that 3000 years ago Armenians didn't say to themselves "we must outlive almost every nation of our time and that we're still going to stay Armenian in year 2004." I'm very glad that Armenians have survived to this day but let's not take it for granted. I always hear Armenians say that we're the smartes nation in the world blah blah blah...but I think that if we were so smart today and even in the past we wouldn't be in a shithole most of our history. Don't u guys think that our "smartness" would have been evident in our own history???? What's so smart about a nation who has no land after 3,000 year old history? You call today's tiny mountanous region a country which you can't even see it on the map? If Armenians were so smart then present day Armenia wouldn't be in a deep shithole politically and economically. I don't understand the whole point about the April 24th Genocide Marches in LA. Don't they understand that odars don't really care about the genocide??? It is an Armenian issue and we need to keep it to ourselves instead of "advertising" the event because our marches are not going to help to make the US government recognize the genocide. Maybe and hopefully it will recognize it in the future but right now it doesn't seem like it will and why would it if it is going to hurt its relationship with its "friend." The earth doesn't revolve around us.

[_Anka_]

Armenian Pirate,

I just want to mention that you were wrong when you said that Monte Melkonian didn't travel outside of US (besides Armenia) because he did travel. I don't know where you got that false info.

[-=VAHE=-]

Anka your right we should just give all that up and maybe we'll get there faster.

Why shouldnt we think were all that? When did it turn out to be a bad thing for wanting to perserve your culture or even heritage. Tell me if I'm not going about commiting or even provoking hate crimes against other races why shouldn't I be obsessed with my culture and why shouldn't I think were the best in the world? Maybe your type shouldn't be so close minded and accept what we believe in also. Give it a thought. It's a dog eat dog world out there and with thinkers like you the others are winning.

Edited March 31, 2004 by Vahe G.

[Anoushik]

Why are Armenians so obssesed about their own identity and their own culture. Why do we think that we're the best nation on this planet and that we're "special". Says who? Let people marry to whomever they want, who cares? It's their own life and they know what's best for them. It is not your place to judge anyone. I don't want to sound like some of the "intelectualls" that Armenian Pirate was reffering to because  I don't care much about it.I just don't really care about what other Armenians do and I don't really care about other Armenians because everyone has their own life to think about. Some Armenians need to get a life and not be so closed minded. They need to understand that we're not perfect and we are just like other nations and ethnic groups in the world, nothing speacial...

So what that we're an ancient race??? and? I don't think that it makes us so special or that it gives us a reason to be so closed minded towards other people. We need to understand that nobody gives a damn about our ancient history except us. Don't forget that  one of the reasons that Armenians still exist is the fact that Armenia is a mountanous region so therefore when one part of Armenia got conquered the other part was free and people  were able to keep their identity. What I'm trying to say is that our survival  had to do with other factors that were out of our control and I'm sure that 3000 years ago Armenians didn't say to themselves "we must outlive almost every nation of our time and that we're still going to stay Armenian in year 2004." I'm very glad that Armenians have survived to this day but let's not take it for granted. I always hear Armenians say  that we're the smartes nation in the world blah blah blah...but I think that if we were so smart today and even in the past we wouldn't be in a shithole most of our history. Don't u guys think that our "smartness" would have been evident in our own history???? What's so smart about a nation  who has no land after 3,000 year old history? You call today's tiny mountanous region a country which you can't even see it on the map? If Armenians were  so smart then present day Armenia wouldn't be in a deep shithole politically and economically. I don't understand the whole point about the April 24th Genocide Marches in LA. Don't they understand that odars don't really care about  the genocide??? It is an Armenian issue and we need to keep it to ourselves instead of "advertising" the event because our marches  are not going to help to make the US government recognize the genocide. Maybe and hopefully it will recognize it  in the future but right now it doesn't seem like it will and why would it if it is going to hurt its relationship with its "friend." The earth doesn't revolve around us.

What a sad post.

[TheArmenianPirate]

Unfortunately, it is a very simple matter. You don't have to do anything, Time will take care of it. Huge efforts are needed to keep the diaspora alive. Much of those efforts should be directed at explaining why this is important, and how the goal can be achieved.

 

Actually, you’re ALMOST right that it is “only a matter of time”, but not quite. The reality of the matter is that yes, everything in the universe, including cultural heritage, is “a matter of time”. If I tie you up to a chair and not feed you or allow you to drink, in 10 days, the “matter of time” will provide me with a Sasun corpse. If I plant a seed in the ground and leave it there without the effort of nurturing it, then the “matter of time” will decay that seed and its potency will be lost. If I carve a fine marble statue and put it in the middle of nowhere without care takers, then in a “matter of time”, it will crumble to the ground if it is not properly cared for. So as you can see Sasun jan, everything is a matter of time if you decide to not actively pursue preservation, this philosophy also includes things like self identity, heritage, lineage, culture, and ethnicities of individuals as well. All these aspects of an individual must be nurtured as well as maintained actively, and the best person to do this is the individual himself/herself.

 

But before an individual can decide to do this, they must first learn why it is important to do this and why these aspects about themselves hold value? And the answer to this question is simple, we live in a world where all of us in fact exist as human beings, that much is true. But we ALSO exist as subsets of different regional origins we call “heritage”, “culture”, or “ethnicity”. There are people in this world that would love nothing more than to control all of those groups and manipulate them in any way possible because they are hungry for power and want to impose their own ideas, values, or culture on the masses. But when you have so many different groups of cultures that are so diverse in their ideals, values, and mental viewpoints, it becomes very difficult for any manipulating body, such as the media elites of today, to control all of those different groups simultaneously; in essence, they have to diversify their efforts into “branches of control”. Before the advent of media tools such as television and radio, there was little choice but to in fact express control in a diversified manner because it simply was not possible to reach out to the masses and somehow blur their lines of heritage and ultimately consolidate all of their values, thus making them much easier to control as one group. BUT now-a-days, with television and radio, this becomes a much easier task. Ideas such as “we are one human race, lets forget cultural roots and distinction and merge together” are easily introduced with “intellectualesque” titles such as “globalization”, in an effort to make them sound very passive and harmless.

 

Besides the ludicrous ideas of “let’s globalize, mix everyone up, and sing ‘Coombaya’ around an open camp fire”, another deceptive idea that is imprinted into the minds of youth is that maintaining personal heritage, culture, and lineage is “so very difficult”, furthermore, these power hungry proponents of globalization take it one step further and say that IF you in fact want to become successful in a capitalistic environment , assimilation culturally, heritage-wise, and lineage-wise is an inevitable price you have to pay, and this is simply not true. They also make it seem like maintaining one’s own heritage and cultural identity is a monumental task of epic proportions, this is also a false notion. A good many young Hyes have so readily bought into this laughable idea, just look at how adamantly YOU yourself believe in it. The fact of the matter is that keeping ones lineage, heritage, and culture alive and well is a very easy task and DOES NOT require the astronomical efforts that you think it may require. The way this goal is achieved is by discarding those things that act as social burdens on your youth and promoting aspects that actually help our youth communicate with one another and interact with one another. Social stigmas about sexuality, persecution of a woman’s desires, judgmental ideology in some of our men toward women, the preposterous standard of “makur”, the separation of lipanhye, parskahye, and hayastanzi due to social differences, and many other negative social stigmas should be purged by our youth as time gradually passes by. Positive aspects such as culture, heritage, lineage, the idea of “togetherness”,etc, etc, should be promoted and nurtured.

 

Many of you feel that simply because someone believes in the ideas I talk about that he/she is in fact some sort of “anti-western” and “anti-modern” reclusive fanatic, and that simply is again the media’s stereotype talking through ALL OF YOU that buy into their hype and propaganda. Fact is I can be just as much an American as anyone else and still be a very huge fan of Armenianism and the maintenance of my lineage/culture/heritage. I can live the “American Dream” 100 times over and still have Hye grandchildren that speak Armenian, know their Eibuben as well as Alphabet, love who they are, etc, etc. This is not an idealistic notion by any means, it’s a very easily achieved realism. Stop acting like good little flocks of sheep by following the mass media’s herders.

 

I appreciate Armenian Pirate's efforts but I don't think his approach is correct and will convince many people.

 

The approach of “inevitability” or “it’s only a matter of time” is what is NOT correct. My approach is VERY correct indeed. It is the approach of the individual’s power being expressed in a manner that many dare not express because they have been conditioned by their social media environment to join the phalanx of pop culture because it’s the “cool thing to do”, or “it’s the way things are”, or “we are one big happy family”. Pop culture tries relentlessly to replace ACTUAL culture, heritage, and lineage in an attempt to group people of different origins into one big pile that can be rolled in any which way it needs to be rolled. Every 10 years or so, some new ridiculous gimmick is used to pull youth astray from their own heritage/lineage in order to control them better. What better way to shut up those “annoying Armenians and their genocide restitutions that are owed to them” than to cleverly and slowly pull their youth away from their culture/lineage/heritage and make them forget who they are. Pop culture presents you with “the bling bling” and how to get it by suggesting that you “forget your own culture/heritage/lineage and you can live the dream, don’t burden yourself with your own Armenianism”, it’s all a ridiculous hype.

 

While all of you are sheep racked into assimilating into this pop culture “melting pot”, the people behind the strings use your zombie like following to manipulate you in any way possible and make you forget about where you come from and who you are. Before you know it, you’ve inter-married and a couple generations later your grand children or great grandchildren are composites of SO MANY different heritages that they are indefinable, and as indefinable individuals, they cannot ever hope to lay claim to things that can only be owed to defined groups of people, hence the string pullers have just knocked you out of the loop of your own culture. And now that you’re out of that loop, you cannot say “HEY, I’m Armenian, you own me genocide restitutions” or “Armenia, this land, belongs to my people, it’s my land”, because YOU don’t belong to ANY distinct group of people in any way, you’re a mutt of the world and cannot lay claim to any single issue that concerns a distinct heritage or lineage.

 

And as far as convincing people goes, it’s obvious that people are afraid to talk about these things, again it has to do with social conditioning, but the interest is there, the views on this thread are a testament to this interest. And if you’re not convinced, at the very least don’t be a mindless carcass with beliefs of things being hopeless, unchangeable, or apocalyptic. Give ideas of cultural progress/preservation a chance, put in some effort, and see FOR YOURSELF what the outcome is, don’t believe in an outcome just because someone says things are “hopeless”, “inevitable”, “only a matter of time”, or any other ultra-pessimistic notion. The power of the individual is infinite, but folks these days have been told so much that one person cannot make any difference, that they have finally bit the bullet and bought into this false idea and lie. If I can make just one person out of everyone here rekindle their hope, which I have from all the personal messages I have been receiving, then I have made a difference, nothing can be better proof of the power of my individual effort than that.

 

 

(on a side note, the choice of the alias "Pirate" does not speak well for the cause. not that it is my personal business in anyway, just a thought)

 

The notion of “Pirate” rang true the very minute it popped up in my head during registration, it’s the very anti-thesis of convention promotion!

 

 

Well, from my own experience this is not any major issue and has little role in the assimilation of the diaspora. Maybe your experience tells otherwise that's why you say this. Both our views are subjective. In order to convince people that Armenians are sexually repressed you need to show a study based on valid data

 

Well I’m glad it isn’t a major issue in your social environment, that’s certainly good to hear. But, whether you’d like to admit it or not, it is in fact a major issue and not a minor one when our people are considered as a whole. And to say our views are subjective is also wrong because I’m not basing what I say merely on my own opinion on the matter. I tell it how I have seen it, not necessarily in my own personal life, but on a community level in general. I see how Hye girls are told to keep things “hush hush” by their mothers, or how Hye boys are preached to about judging our women harshly if they have had previous sexual experience or lovers, I have seen the way Hye girls tread carefully when out with Hye boys because they are uncertain if the guy will be “cool” with a sexual session happening on such short notice, I have seen how hye mothers preach the avoidance of open sexual relationships with Hye boys unless it’s “marriage material” otherwise opt for the odar or a Hye from another community. These are all things that are visually evident and obviously out there. I’m just as analytical a person as you with a very rigorous science educational background, but with things being so blatantly obvious I do not need a linear regression chart, census report projection, or other data figures to conclusively admit what obviously is there and happening. “If it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, and acts like a duck”, it’s a duck my friend, you don’t need a calculator for this.

 

 

 

Why are Armenians so obssesed about their own identity and their own culture. Why do we think that we're the best nation on this planet and that we're "special".

 

Well, we are special. If an Italian can claim he is special because his lineage and heritage goes back 1400 years, then I certainly am at least twice as special and claim so because I go back even further, by 1600 years more to be exact. If a Jew can claim that he is one of the “chosen of God” and of “God’s people” and my people existed at least 1000 years before God decided to come to earth as a Jew Shepard, then that makes me pretty damn special, and I will claim to be special every chance I get, because I am. If I predate one of the most oldest and most popular books in history, the Bible, by at least 1000 years, then YES, I AM of a SPECIAL origin. There is your answer.

 

Says who?

 

Says me, and many other Hyes, AND many scholars throughout the world that dream and WISH they were Armenian so that they could claim to be part of the people who’s tablets they study for a living as archeologists, theologians, historians, and anthropologists.

 

Let people marry to whomever they want, who cares? It's their own life and they know what's best for them. It is not your place to judge anyone.

 

I’m not judging anyone, I’m recognizing that for a very long time, thousands of years in fact, many of my kin have fought, struggled, and died so that I could stay who I am, retain my cultural values, continue my lineage, have an ACTUAL heritage to talk about, and be able to lay claim to my homeland. Who cares? I CARE, and I will continue to care, because you obviously have stopped caring so extensively that you are okay with having your future kin be a composite of 10 different lineages that cannot lay claim to anything rightfully being their own in this world. If you’re dating an odar, have married one, or have had sexual relations with one because the Hye option was out of reach due to social pressure, I feel for you, hopefully we can change that by discarding negative notions about sexuality within our communities. This is not being judgmental, this is expressing individual strength and instead of whining about your persecuting environment, taking steps to modify that environment into one in which your identity can flourish maximally.

 

I don't want to sound like some of the "intelectualls" that Armenian Pirate was reffering to because I don't care much about it.

 

You just admitted that you do in fact care about it by posting.

 

I just don't really care about what other Armenians do and I don't really care about other Armenians because everyone has their own life to think about.

 

Well you’re saying this now, but if I bayonet your baby while you watch, or slice your nipple off and string it up as a necklace, or label you as “terrorist” when you’re actually not, during a media persecution campaign which happened late last year, then as a “terrorist” I deport your a$$ to the Middle East, then I think you’ll quickly change your tune and want other Hyes to care about you and you would want them to definitely NOT adapt to your “careless” mentality. Everyone does have “their own life”, but that doesn’t mean that my life is not connected to your life in some manner as a Hye on the world stage. Wake up.

 

Some Armenians need to get a life and not be so closed minded.

 

So by “getting a life”, you mean I should in fact be as careless and mentally oblivious as you? I’ll pass. And by being “not so closed minded” I should in fact reject the notions of hope, personal responsibility, discarding social stigmas in our community, educating Hye youth, and admiring my own self-identity as you have? How about I just stop thinking all together the way you have? I’ll have to pass again, thanks.

 

 

They need to understand that we're not perfect and we are just like other nations and ethnic groups in the world, nothing speacial...

 

Just like “any other nation” we are unique, and that makes Hyes special to Hyes. I never told or expected an odar to think I’m special, he has his lineage, I have mine. For him his lineage is special and for me, my lineage is special. But to you it seems nothing is special, you have my pity.

 

So what that we're an ancient race??? and? I don't think that it makes us so special or that it gives us a reason to be so closed minded towards other people.

 

Why do you keep insisting that having a love for one’s own lineage and heritage is the equivalent of being “closed minded”. Yes, I love who I am as a Hye, but that doesn’t mean I’m saying that I am better than others, but I do realize my people have been around a lot longer than many other lineages, and that does make me a bit more special in terms of historic relevance on the world stage. You won’t quench your own guilt of giving up by whining like this.

 

We need to understand that nobody gives a damn about our ancient history except us.

 

Which is exactly why WE shouldn’t stop caring. It’s not the responsibility of other cultures to maintain our own culture and history, it’s ours. But since you don’t care at all about your own or other people’s culture/lineage anyhow, there is very little point to your existence it seems.

 

 

Don't forget that one of the reasons that Armenians still exist is the fact that Armenia is a mountanous region so therefore when one part of Armenia got conquered the other part was free and people were able to keep their identity.

 

No actually, mountains are not impassable barriers, they can be breached easily. The reason we survived is because many people bled the ground red to maintain our lineage and rights to our lands. Mere geographical barriers alone do not allow a culture to survive 3000+ years, don’t be so simplistically delusional.

 

 

What I'm trying to say is that our survival had to do with other factors that were out of our control and I'm sure that 3000 years ago Armenians didn't say to themselves "we must outlive almost every nation of our time and that we're still going to stay Armenian in year 2004."

 

No they didn’t say that, but they didn’t say all the garbage that you’re saying either, and thank God for that indeed. And some factors are in fact out of one’s control, but many important ones such as the will to exist, survive, propagate, and proliferate are not out of our control, they are composed of simple and easy decisions that have very positive and long term implications for our survival.

 

 

I'm very glad that Armenians have survived to this day but let's not take it for granted.

 

This single line, coupled with everything you mentioned before saying this single line, equates to hypocrisy. I think you’re highly confused and guilt ridden.

 

I always hear Armenians say that we're the smartes nation in the world blah blah blah...but I think that if we were so smart today and even in the past we wouldn't be in a shithole most of our history.

 

 

When you’re the pioneering CHRISTIAN state, surrounded by nothing but MUSLIM states, it becomes difficult to thrive and flourish. If I took you and put you in a cell with 12 death- row inmates that are rapists, I don’t think you’d flourish much as a woman would you? GET IT?

 

 

 

You call today's tiny mountanous region a country which you can't even see it on the map?

 

 

You must be blind then if you can’t see it on a map. And land size has nothing to do with how great or powerful a nation of people are. Japan is one of the economic superpowers of the world, yet it’s a spot on the map. Stop making asinine comments like this.

 

If Armenians were so smart then present day Armenia wouldn't be in a deep shithole politically and economically.

 

I don’t know of many other nations that have made so much progress only after a decade of true independence. It’s not paradise, yet. But the wheels of progress are turning, slowly, but they DO turn.

 

 

I don't understand the whole point about the April 24th Genocide Marches in LA. Don't they understand that odars don't really care about the genocide??? It is an Armenian issue and we need to keep it to ourselves instead of "advertising" the event because our marches are not going to help to make the US government recognize the genocide. Maybe and hopefully it will recognize it in the future but right now it doesn't seem like it will and why would it if it is going to hurt its relationship with its "friend."

 

When 1.5+ million people are killed because of their lineage and the fact that they refused to willingly give up land they have been on for thousands of years, it is wrong, and must be recognized. Not recognizing it is also wrong, because if a black man hopes to not have slavery come back to haunt him again, or if a Jew doesn’t want to end up in another mass killing again, then they better learn to recognize these incidents so that they won’t happen again to other folks. And the perpetrators of his crime must take responsibility for what they have done and must be punished and pay restitutions. The Jews were killed after we were, they have gotten their restitutions, recognition, and apology, ours is well overdue. When we were being killed Turks didn’t “keep to themselves”, why am I going to “keep it to myself” as a victim? If I raped you and had my way with you as a woman, would you want to just keep it to yourself and have me smiling at you while I walk by your house everyday free as free can be? Of course not, the same logic applies with genocide, it’s a crime and must be atoned for. And there is no “maybe” or “hopefully”, I’ll leave “maybe” and “hopefully” for the poets, intellectuals, and verbal analysts. In the meanwhile, I’ll crush any opposition that is trying to manipulate and hide the truth about my people with my actions.

 

Lastly, Turkey is not the “friend” of the United States, the U.S. was Turkey’s sugar daddy because Turkey promised use of its military bases to the U.S. But when push came to shove during the Iraqi war last year, Turkey went back on its word and didn’t let U.S. military planes land. Turkey also quickly veered to Iraqi borders with military tanks in an attempt to annex some of the land after the US took the place over, a bit dubious for a nation that claims they never killed Hyes and took their land don’t you think? Turkey thought now that Iraq is crippled it’s a “free for all” for those nearby, but the US slapped them back and told them to stay put. So now the U.S. is starting to see the Turks for the mongrel backstabbers that they have been throughout history. The only reasons the Jews work with them economically is because everyone else in that region doesn’t like Jews, so they have little choice. And Turkey has burned its bridges with other Muslim states as well because it has chosen, like the little weasel state that it is, to work with Israel because Israel is the best economic force there right now by “modern” standards.

 

So now you can’t say “I don’t understand” as a BS excuse next time for your whining and nonsensical banter.

 

Armenian Pirate,

I just want to mention that you were wrong when you said that Monte Melkonian didn't travel outside of US (besides Armenia) because he did travel. I don't know where you got that false info.

 

I just want to mention that you should read things more carefully next time. I never said Monte ONLY went to Armenian when he decided to travel outside the U.S. Before hitting the Middle East, Monte finished up college, then went to Japan for some eastern studies. Then he was all over the middle east fighting for Hyes and during this time joined ASALA and ultimately after being released from jail in France then leaving ASALA shortly after his release, ended up in Armenia where he led about 4000 troops to win after win in battle, recapturing land in big chunks then proceeding to defend those lands with great success until his death on the front lines. And yes, he was a kid form Fresno that had grown up there his whole life and was not an immigrant like most of you are, yet still he believed in the strength of the individual, and the difference an individual’s efforts can make.

 

-The Armenian Pirate

[Armat]

TAP

I am impressed by your energy and I hope that you don’t burn people around you.

[gurgen]

Pirate, ever think of writing a book?

[_Anka_]

Armenian Pirate,

 

The part about me saying garbage goes both ways. What makes you think that you're right and I'm wrong??? Just because you don't agree with me doesn't make me wrong. There's no right way of thinking. Everyone has their own opinions and thoughts so before you say that the person in front of you is full of garbage think again because you can be viewed the same way for the person in front of you. You didn't ahve to tell me about Monte since I already know where he went to and what he did. I date whomever I want and I don't look at what ethnicity they are and if I did that then I probably would not have dated anyone to this day. You siad something about pressures did you mean parents or what?? I didnt' really understand what you meant by it. If you're refering to my parents then they have no problem with me dating odars and for your info my parents are not the "typical" Armenian parents. The same thing goes for my extended family in Armenia. We don't have the picture of Ararat, Jesus Christ, Aibuben hanging on our walls. In fact, we do have number of Buddhist and Hinduist statues. Can't remember when was the last time an Armenian music was played in my house and my dad only reads Russian newspapers, no asbarez or other dashnakakan c***. I would say the same thing about my father's friends who live in US and in Armenia. I remember once when I was about 18 years old I came home and told my dad that I want to be in AYF (Armenian youth federation) and all he did was laugh at me. Hayastantsi Armenians (in Armenia) and Armenians from diaspora ahve a very different view of what Armenians are. I'm not saying that Armenians in Armenia are not proud of who they are or they don't feel Armenian but they're not as extreme as Armenians are in the diaspora. I think that it has to do with Armenians in Armenia already living their lives as Armenians in an Armenian environment surrounded with everything that is Armenian and Armenians in diaspora have to try twice as hard to keep their identity just because they live in other countries. So don't be so surprised that I sound careless about me being Armenian because I was born in Armenia and I'm sure that my attitude would have been different if I was born in another country. Why is that everytime Armenians get together they have to talk about the same thing over and over and over again? and I'm not confused at all. There's nothing to be confused about. I'm who I am and I'm special but I don't associate my specialness with my ethnicity. I'm special as an individual and based on what kind of a human being I'm (lav kam vat). I don't ahve to say that I'm Armenian in order to define myself because being an Armenian hasn't made me a good or a bad person. My life experiences have done that instead of my ethnicity. I never see Armenians in Armenia being so obsessed about their identity or all in your face about who they are, i guess it is only a diaspora thing. I think that you misunderstood me about the April 24th comment. I didnt' say that it doesn't ahev to be recognized quote me if i did. I was sayign that all the 'advertisment" should be left for the government adn that regular people don't really care about it and their recognition in their hearts won't do any good. IF the US feels that it isn't the right time for the government to recognize it then it is not going to and you didn't have to tell me about the politics of Turkey_US_ISrael because I'm not living in the 16th century. Et patmutun@ karas tornerit patmes.

[koko]

What's so smart about a nation who has no land after 3,000 year old history? You call today's tiny mountanous region a country which you can't even see it on the map

 

I can't belive im reading this, you shoudn't be writing here at all, you don't seem to have a clue on what were discussing here.

 

If you want to call yourself something else then armenian, go ahead, nothing is stopping you. Mjkankamits asa HNDIKES o gna. With people like you around who'd want to call themselves armenians? Not me!!!!!

 

I am Pro-Your assimilation into the american sociaty!

Edited April 5, 2004 by koko

[Boghos]

Armenian Pirate,

 

The part about me saying garbage goes both ways. What makes you think that you're right and I'm wrong??? Just because you don't agree with me doesn't make me wrong. There's no right way of thinking. Everyone has their own opinions and thoughts so before you say that the person in front of you is full of garbage think again because you can be viewed the same way for the person in front of you. You didn't ahve to tell me about Monte since I already know where he went to and what he did. I date whomever I want and I don't look at what ethnicity they are and if I did that then I probably would not have dated anyone to this day. You siad something about pressures did you mean parents or what?? I didnt' really understand what you meant by it. If you're refering to my parents then they have no problem with me dating odars and for your info my parents are not the "typical" Armenian parents. The same thing goes for my extended family in Armenia. We don't have the picture of Ararat, Jesus Christ, Aibuben hanging on our walls. In fact, we do have number of Buddhist and Hinduist statues. Can't remember when was the last time an Armenian music was played in my house and my dad only reads Russian newspapers, no asbarez or other dashnakakan c***. I would say the same thing about my father's friends who live in US and in Armenia. I remember once when I was about 18 years old I came home and told my dad that I want to be in AYF (Armenian youth federation) and all he did was laugh at me. Hayastantsi Armenians (in Armenia) and Armenians from diaspora ahve a very different view of what Armenians are. I'm not saying that Armenians in Armenia are not proud of who they are or they don't feel Armenian but they're not as extreme as Armenians are in the diaspora. I think that it has to do with Armenians in Armenia already living their lives as Armenians in an Armenian environment surrounded with everything that is Armenian and Armenians in diaspora have to try twice as hard to keep their identity just because they live in other countries. So don't be so surprised that I sound careless about me being Armenian because I was born in Armenia and I'm sure that my attitude would have been different if I was born in another country. Why is that everytime Armenians get together they have to talk about the same thing over and over and over again? and I'm not confused at all. There's nothing to be confused about. I'm who I am and I'm special but I don't associate my specialness with my ethnicity. I'm special as an individual and based on what kind of a human being I'm (lav kam vat). I don't ahve to say that I'm Armenian in order to define myself because being an Armenian hasn't made me a good or a bad person. My life experiences have done that instead of my ethnicity. I never see Armenians in Armenia being so obsessed about their identity or all in your face about who they are, i guess it is only a diaspora thing. I think that you misunderstood me about the April 24th comment. I didnt' say that it doesn't ahev to be recognized quote me if i did. I was sayign that all the 'advertisment" should be left for the government adn that regular people don't really care about it and their recognition in their hearts won't do any good. IF the US feels that it isn't the right time for the government to recognize it then it is not going to and you didn't have to tell me about the politics of Turkey_US_ISrael because I'm not living in the 16th century. Et patmutun@ karas tornerit patmes.

Hello Anka,

 

I am sometimes surprised by how Armenians cannot face the obvious and sometime hard reality that surrounds them. It is not just Armenians in the diaspora that are more caricaturesque Armenians, even half-Armenians when their nationalistic feeling "blossom" they tend to be even more chauvinistic than pure bloods. Of course that it is not an Armenian only phenomenon, as most aren´t in any case.

 

What seems to be even more diffcult for many is to accept what reality is and believe that in such a world it is possible to live happily.

[_Anka_]

I don't understand why other Armenians like to verbally attack each other just because they don't agree on issues. What makes some of you think that you're right and I'm wrong and then say that i need to assimilate or I'm full of garbage? Don't forget that I also know how to offend and be rude. I only posted my opinion and I didn't ask you for your senseless remarks.

Koko,

Don't f**** tell me that I need to assimilate or I shouldn't come here?? Who you think you are to tell me what I need to do. Mind your own business. Some of you need to relax and not take everything so close to your hearts.

Just like Boghos said above "What seems to be even more diffcult for many is to accept what reality is and believe that in such a world it is possible to live happily."

[Armat]

Why are Armenians so obssesed about their own identity and their own culture. Why do we think that we're the best nation on this planet and that we're "special". Says who? Let people marry to whomever they want, who cares? It's their own life and they know what's best for them. It is not your place to judge anyone. I don't want to sound like some of the "intelectualls" that Armenian Pirate was reffering to because  I don't care much about it.I just don't really care about what other Armenians do and I don't really care about other Armenians because everyone has their own life to think about. Some Armenians need to get a life and not be so closed minded. They need to understand that we're not perfect and we are just like other nations and ethnic groups in the world, nothing speacial...

So what that we're an ancient race??? and? I don't think that it makes us so special or that it gives us a reason to be so closed minded towards other people. We need to understand that nobody gives a damn about our ancient history except us. Don't forget that  one of the reasons that Armenians still exist is the fact that Armenia is a mountanous region so therefore when one part of Armenia got conquered the other part was free and people  were able to keep their identity. What I'm trying to say is that our survival  had to do with other factors that were out of our control and I'm sure that 3000 years ago Armenians didn't say to themselves "we must outlive almost every nation of our time and that we're still going to stay Armenian in year 2004." I'm very glad that Armenians have survived to this day but let's not take it for granted. I always hear Armenians say  that we're the smartes nation in the world blah blah blah...but I think that if we were so smart today and even in the past we wouldn't be in a shithole most of our history. Don't u guys think that our "smartness" would have been evident in our own history???? What's so smart about a nation  who has no land after 3,000 year old history? You call today's tiny mountanous region a country which you can't even see it on the map? If Armenians were  so smart then present day Armenia wouldn't be in a deep shithole politically and economically. I don't understand the whole point about the April 24th Genocide Marches in LA. Don't they understand that odars don't really care about  the genocide??? It is an Armenian issue and we need to keep it to ourselves instead of "advertising" the event because our marches  are not going to help to make the US government recognize the genocide. Maybe and hopefully it will recognize it  in the future but right now it doesn't seem like it will and why would it if it is going to hurt its relationship with its "friend." The earth doesn't revolve around us.

Your observations I am assuming are retaliation against nationalistic chauvinists therefore you exaggerate and amplify the stereotypes but should we not be selective in our critique? You do generalize and you know it. It sounds like you have an inferiority complex of being Armenian.

By the way Armenian Genocide is not just an Armenian issue and you must understand this clearly.It is a humanity problem same way putting the murderer in jail is much more then satisfying victims family.

Edited April 1, 2004 by Armat

[koko]

Anka,

It's none of my buissness you are absolutly right.

Edited April 1, 2004 by koko

[_Anka_]

Your observations I am assuming are retaliation against nationalistic chauvinists therefore you exaggerate and amplify the stereotypes but should we not be selective in our critique? You do generalize and you know it. It sounds like you have an inferiority complex of being Armenian.

By the way Armenian Genocide is not just an Armenian issue and you must understand this clearly.It is a humanity problem same way putting the murderer in jail is much more then satisfying victims family.

I don't have an inferiority complex... here we go again...

Why is it so hard for you people to understand that some Armenians take their Armenianess lightly. OK I'm Armenian and I know that but I do not advertise it (why would I) and I don't make my armenianess the purpose of my life. C'mon.

For obsessed and chavunistic people like some of you in here there has to be something wrong with a person who thinks that Armenians are not above anyone else on this planet, right? We're all human beings and just because we're one of the oldest people on this earth doesn't make us saints.

[Armat]

I don't have an inferiority complex... here we go again...

Why is it so hard for you people to understand that some Armenians take their Armenianess lightly. OK I'm Armenian and I know that but I do not advertise it (why would I) and I don't make my armenianess the purpose of my life. C'mon.

For obsessed and chavunistic people like some of you in here there has to be something wrong with a person who thinks that Armenians are not above anyone else on this planet, right? We're all human beings and just because we're one of the oldest people on this earth doesn't make us saints.

There is nothing-wrong taking pride who you are. Obviously there are degrees and substance difference. I don't subscribe cheap slogans and I don't bring it down to the gutter either. There is got to be a healthy balance.

[Anoushik]

What's so smart about a nation  who has no land after 3,000 year old history? You call today's tiny mountanous region a country which you can't even see it on the map? If Armenians were  so smart then present day Armenia wouldn't be in a deep shithole politically and economically.

Anka, in an above post you wrote that you "don't understand why other Armenians like to verbally attack each other just because they don't agree on issues". Well, while you didn't verbally attack me personally you did offend me deeply with your above sentences. What you wrote is similar to what a Turk would write.

[-=VAHE=-]

So anka it goes back again to where I asked you whats wrong with me being obsessed with my race.

 

Woah Pirate. Parap es mnatsel? maladets you must really care.

Edited April 1, 2004 by Vahe G.

[_Anka_]

Well, while you didn't verbally attack me personally you did offend me deeply with your above sentences. What you wrote is similar to what a Turk would write.

You got offended just because I said that Armenians have a tiny land after 3000 year old history and that today Armenia is in a shithole politicaly and economicaly? Isn't that the reality? So why are you being offended? Be offended by present day politicans who rule Armenia and some dashnaks who "sold" Armenia, not by me.

[Anoushik]

You got offended just because I said that Armenians have a tiny land after 3000 year old history and that today Armenia is in a shithole politicaly and economicaly? Isn't that the reality? So why are you being offended? Be offended by present day politicans who rule Armenia and some dashnaks who "sold" Armenia, not me.

First of all, Armenia's history goes back much more than 3000 years, and second, Armenia is not in a "shithole politically and economically".

 

If your name was Nasty, your posts would've long been deleted.

[gevo27]

You got offended just because I said that Armenians have a tiny land after 3000 year old history and that today Armenia is in a shithole politicaly and economicaly? Isn't that the reality? So why are you being offended? Be offended by present day politicans who rule Armenia and some dashnaks who "sold" Armenia, not me.

umm anka.. lets just remember, that during the soviet union, stalin cutt armenia's land more than half.. and handed it to the turks.. what was armenia to do.. didnt even have there own army!! it was a "union" after this.. and ofcourse tall the other "good" things stalin did,, i know armenians that say, he did good work, or that dont hate him.. i hate stalin.. lol. he ruined much of armenias beatuiful land.. and let the turks crush our churches.. armenias faith!.. and yeah armenia dates further than.. 3000 years

[TheArmenianPirate]

The part about me saying garbage goes both ways. What makes you think that you're right and I'm wrong??? Just because you don't agree with me doesn't make me wrong. There's no right way of thinking. There's no right way of thinking.

 

What makes me think what you say is garbage? Because I choose to think critically about the world around me and not accept things for what they supposedly are just because “being jaded” is the norm among my age demographic or just because my immediate social environment uses propaganda to make an actively involved person, such as myself, seem like some sort of fanatic, when clearly I am not. I make the realization that my power as the individual is limitless and that I have the ability to affect the future, no matter how miniscule that change may possibly be, I do not simply attribute my existence and identity preservation to an “inevitable” loss.

 

And yes, there DOES in fact exist a RIGHT and a WRONG way of thinking with respect to the world around us, you’ve just been so well brainwashed to think that everything is “only a matter of opinion” and that nothing anyone says can truly be right or wrong to you. You've become a social, moral, and cultural nilhist. According to you and some other folks here, identities do not truly exist, and unique differences are not of enough value to be preserved or actively pursued. I begin to wonder if ANYTHING in your irate little existence is of ANY value or consequence or are you just alive to whine about these things being a social burden and that thinking about your own identity prevents you from “being happy” the way Boghos declared. I’m in my 20s and never in my life can I honestly say thinking about and helping preserve my heritage, lineage, and culture has prevented me from reaching any of my many other goals or has prevented me from “being happy”. That’s just an excuse and you, Boghos, and others like you use it as exactly that, en excuse to be careless and care free.

 

How naïve are you? The first and most obvious sign of social brainwashing for an individual is when an individual cannot at all attribute anything they or anyone else says to being correct or incorrect, instead, these weak minded pathetic individuals always fall back on the crutch excuse of everything being “just an opinion”. And that’s bull$hit, and I WILL call you and anyone else on any bull$hit crutch excuses that you post on these boards, it IS garbage, period.

 

If you're refering to my parents then they have no problem with me dating odars and for your info my parents are not the "typical" Armenian parents. The same thing goes for my extended family in Armenia. We don't have the picture of Ararat, Jesus Christ, Aibuben hanging on our walls.

 

So what? What, you think my own family had the Eibuben tattooed across their foreheads and pistol whipped me if I didn’t speak Armenian? Because that certainly is not the case, if anything, my family is as liberal as they come and at times conservative as well. All in all, my family and friends are the quintessential “American” family and friends, but one little tidbit is that we do keep in mind we still are “Armenian-Americans”, because as I have stated before, there is no such thing as purely “American” unless you have a feather sticking out of your head. See, this is why your mentality and that of Boghos is WRONG, and not “just an opinion”. It is wrong because what you say DOES NOT coincide with the actual REALITY of your situation, hence it is incorrect. You feel that in order to perform and create preservation of culture, heritage, and lineage, there HAS TO BE a certain number of criteria that are “inevitably” met such as “being burdened”, “not getting rich or being successful in a capitalistic system”, “being dubbed a fanatic”, “being a social hermit in American society”, “having a messiah complex”, “not realizing inevitable failure of efforts”, etc, etc. and the REALITY of the situation is that none of these criteria are a pre-requisite for simply caring about who you are as an individual and wanting to preserve your identity as an Armenian American, but you believe them to be pre-requisites so very adamantly in a brain washed manner, hence I can easily and conclusively say, YOU’RE WRONG, and your “opinion” is WRONG. Just because you have an opinion doesn’t necessarily exclude that opinion from being incorrect when the variables of actuality and reality are applied, don’t be so foolish as to think that by making something your “opinion” automatically protects it from the forces of accuracy, precision, and accountability.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I remember once when I was about 18 years old I came home and told my dad that I want to be in AYF (Armenian youth federation) and all he did was laugh at me.

 

And that made your decision to not join AYF the correct one? Because your father decided to ridicule your desire to be with other Hye friends and youth? Very sad indeed. Your father is obviously not the greatest source of moral support when you want to make decisions, because he is possibly too jaded to care, he laughs at you long enough so that you become just as jaded as him. The most scariest part of this is that you feel this is a proper measure of how to determine whether a decision of yours was correct or not. It’s mind bogglingly horrific.

 

 

Hayastantsi Armenians (in Armenia) and Armenians from diaspora ahve a very different view of what Armenians are.

 

This I don’t agree with at all, if anything, all the 3 different sub-sects of Armenians have a very good consensus about what it is an Armenian is. I have many friends from all three sub groups of Parskahyes, Lipanhyes, and Hayastanzis , and the idea of what an Armenian is, is one of the constants that exists among the three sects.

 

 

I'm not saying that Armenians in Armenia are not proud of who they are or they don't feel Armenian but they're not as extreme as Armenians are in the diaspora.

 

Now this is something I WILL agree with to a high degree! But you have to understand Anka jan, that this stems from the sense of loss and isolation that many diasporans feel because they have been dispersed to different regions of the globe. As human beings, we easily tend to fall prey to taking for granted that which seems to be around all the time and within our immediate vicinity or reach, such as living in Armenia and being surrounded by Armenianism. Once that is taken away, we start realizing how much of an important impact it had, then begin to feel longing for it, at least most folks are this way. Those that are not, typically have simply given up caring for certain aspects of themselves and have become disheartened at some point in their lives, and that is truly unfortunate.

 

 

So don't be so surprised that I sound careless about me being Armenian because I was born in Armenia and I'm sure that my attitude would have been different if I was born in another country.

 

 

I have plenty of born and raised Armenian friends that are just as actively involved in their Armenianism as I am. In fact, I would say at some point in my life they truly helped elevate and inspire the philosophy of “The Armenian Pirate” and contributed to it as well. In fact, that really is what “TAP” is about. It’s not about one person, but rather a very powerful and effective philosophy and mental outlook toward one’s own identity and the importance of maintaining that identity in a world where those in power would use their power to manipulate us like sheep by blurring or disrupting the very essence of who each of us are and where we originated from. “TAP” gives it’s users maximum results with minimum effort and simple choices, and elitists fear such philosophies, because it easily neutralizes their agendas of dominating the major populace through media machinations.

 

Why is that everytime Armenians get together they have to talk about the same thing over and over and over again? and I'm not confused at all. There's nothing to be confused about. I'm who I am and I'm special but I don't associate my specialness with my ethnicity. I'm special as an individual and based on what kind of a human being I'm (lav kam vat)

.

 

Well I don’t know where you go this from, because there are plenty of other threads on these boards on many other topics, most of which are not Hye related but rather just good conversations about day to day topics, so you’re wrong in your statement about “always talking about the same thing”. And why should I not talk about things that are important to my identity over and over again? Where is it written that doing that is necessarily a “bad thing” or “annoying” or “redundant” or “beating a dead horse”? This is more of the media talking through you, sadly Anka, you in fact are a child of the media, your father is “MTV, VH1, pop culture” and your mother is “trend, what’s hot”. I’m into trends and pop culture as well, but I realize that these things are just trivial momentary variables of my current society, in 10 years there will be something else that is “cool”. In the 70s being a drugged out hippy was the “trend” so folks adapted to it, 80’s it was heavy metal culture, early 90’s it was grunge and beliefs of oblivion, the late 90s until today being a black person within hip hop culture is what’s “cool”. That's why during my visit to the University of Indiana, I met white folk that believed they were black, Armenians also fall prey to these trend mentalities.

 

15 years ago these same people would be ashamed of being associated with African Americans, but the media's push for trends is so powerful these days that it actually turns the most hard core redneck into a proponent of civil-rights and instills a desire within them to be what they once were ashamed of being associated with, being black. It's all a trend, nothing more! All of these groups have had their 15 minutes of fame in society under the rule of those that control the media. And the next gimmick is being formed as we speak, so don’t buy too much into the finite trends of today, believe in the infinite identity of your origin and heritage, which is not merely a decade long trend.

 

I was saying that all the 'advertisment" should be left for the government and that regular people don't really care about it and their recognition in their hearts won't do any good.

 

Well I’m a “regular” person and I REALLY care, so you’re wrong there yet again. And the recognition in my heart HAS in fact made a difference many times, you have just been fed the lie that it cannot make a difference, but it can and has; thus you’re wrong. You presume then assume far too much without really taking a look around you in a critical, do less of this and you will have taken the first step of lifting the veil of naïveness from over your eyes.

 

IF the US feels that it isn't the right time for the government to recognize it then it is not going to

 

Last I checked, as a US citizen, I decide what our policy will be through my vote and INDIVIDUAL activism, not the government. The government serves me, THE INDIDIVUAL, I don’t serve the government, and because of this fact, nothing is inevitable while my vote exists. Hello and welcome to democracy. Fasten your seatbelts ladies and gentlemen, it can be a bumpy ride but the individual is STILL the person behind the wheel if he/she chooses to express their individuality instead of buying into media blitzkrieg campaigns like cattle.

 

 

 

 

 

I am sometimes surprised by how Armenians cannot face the obvious and sometime hard reality that surrounds them. It is not just Armenians in the diaspora that are more caricaturesque Armenians, even half-Armenians when their nationalistic feeling "blossom" they tend to be even more chauvinistic than pure bloods.

 

And what reality is that my friend? That I should bow my head and accept my fate like a good little boy the way you have? It’s not my fault your so guilt ridden and tortured inside because you’ve chosen to sit on the sidelines while I have not made that choice and never will. You have a right to that choice, have made it, so just live with it and stop your incessant push for others to put their head on the social guillotine like you have. Both you and Anka have the right to not care and “accept your fate”, but the problem I have with people like you is you don’t want to be the only ones doing it, so you keep trying to get others to join you in your oblivion like state just so that you can feel better about your decisions of “accepting your fate”. You’re so lost and diluted mentally due to what “Americana” has fed you that you equate the efforts for individual identity, heritage, and culture with “chauvinism” of some kind. You use your ethnic heritage as an intellectual punch line to sound intelligent and socially “modern” and nothing more beyond that. You claim that a lot of people have a hard time understanding your “simple” idea. So what if it is “simple”? That doesn’t necessarily make it the inevitable truth you claim it to be. Putting a gun to my head and blowing my brains all over the floor is also a “simple” idea about how death can come at a young age, but it’s still under the category of suicide, and I cannot justify it otherwise, just like the way you cannot ever justify to me or any other rational normal Hye that Armenianism just simply “ is doomed to fail”. So give it a rest.

 

You have absolutely no idea what really goes on in the world around you beyond what is spoon fed to you at universities, on TV, and the radio, yet you would rather believe these entities than believing your own eyes. You sit there behind your computer and preach all day long how things are inevitable then someone like Monte comes along and makes the very idea of inevitability seem like the joke that it is, and you’re left twiddling your thumbs trying to find another excuse for giving up and feeling good about it. When you can’t find that excuse, you try and bring other people into the same hole you’ve dug for yourself. People claim “I know exactly who Monte was and what he did” then in the same breath they say “it’s useless”, “just accept your fate”, “why should I care”, “there is nothing special about us”, “you’re a fanatic”, “individuality is outdated”, “you’re not of modern mentality”, etc, etc. How can you possibly claim you understand what someone like Monte was all about when you’re so lost in your own indignations of cultural doom and inevitability? You don’t like what I say because I remind you of your own shortcomings and lack of effort with respect to your very identity, culture, heritage, as well as lineage, and you just can’t stand the guilt it stirs up inside of both of you. Just give it a rest. I have nothing against either of you personally, you have the right to the decisions you have made. You long for giving up so much, fine, marry an odar, have healthy beautiful kids and BE happy with the decision you’ve made, I wish you the best, truly I do. Just don’t try and push your hopelessness onto others that are still hopeful.

 

Et patmutun@ karas tornerit patmes

 

Ayo azizes! Vsta eli vor torr uneztam, im torneris bolor patmutunere kasem, vorovhetev du yev Boghose shatek ezzbakvatz chaselov yev morranalov!

 

-The Armenian Pirate

[_Anka_]

umm anka.. lets just remember, that during the soviet union, stalin cutt armenia's land more than half.. and handed it to the turks.. what was armenia to do.. didnt even have there own army!! it was a "union" after this.. and ofcourse tall the other "good" things stalin did,, i know armenians that say, he did good work, or that dont hate him.. i hate stalin.. lol. he ruined much of armenias beatuiful land.. and let the turks crush our churches.. armenias faith!.. and yeah armenia dates further than.. 3000 years

I was not talking about The Soviet Union and Stalin. I was talking about Dashnakneri actions during and after the Genocide (before SU).