StealthSwine Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 (edited) I wish! then we can have russian money for weapons, and our umbrella would be reinforced with some russian steel And when we are stable, Russia will grant us our independence... forgot to add, i believe right when Armenia was created in 1918, we should have joined the Soviet UNion as immediately as possible to secure those lands.... Edited March 22, 2004 by Sasun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Piggy, please watch your language and be respectful to others, this is not just about this thread but other threads. That would be key to you being able to post in this forum rather than being an observer/reader without posting abilities. What I am asking is not really hard to do, most people manage to be decent forumers without any special effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthSwine Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 so by me speaking my mind, which happens to be totaly different from yours, i am breaking a rule? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Piggy, everybody here speaks their mind, thats not a problem. Like I said, you should watch your language and be respectful. That means, you should not use profanity, bad language, show hostile attitude to other forumers, etc. I hope you understand now, if not then maybe you are not yet ready to be here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 i believe right when Armenia was created in 1918, we should have joined the Soviet UNion as immediately as possible to secure those lands.... - who do you think helped the Turks drive the (capitalist) Allies out? not to mention sign our lands away.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Indeed Pigboy, re-read your history. It was your same loving SU who 'sold' our land back to the Turks hoping for a communist revolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genazwale Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Have a good time with your big Brother - Russia! You never can be independent in the claws of imperial. The independence is the most important thing for real caucasians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 'Real' Caucasians, afaik, do not include Georgians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 http://www.armenianow.com/2004/march19/news/ At Risk: Sanctions in Georgia reveal Armenia 's regional vulnerability Note that Georgia gives Azerbaijan 50%discount on trasit fees... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthSwine Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 blah blah blah Russia is the only one we need. Freedom? Freedom? Genazwale, do you live in Armenia? Freedom is the only thing for a Caucasian? lol. the caucusus is just like the balkans, always under foreign rule, always fighting. Learn how to govern yourselves properly, and then ask for freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genazwale Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 No. I live in Germany. But, it hurts to hear, what actually some Armenians are thinking about Georgia. Fortunately I knew some another armenian thinkers! And I believe in freedom in entire Caucasia without some "cruel mothers"! We have to cooperate and not live in slavery! Bye-Bye for a long time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 (edited) Dear Genazwale We are just discussing politics on amateur level however even on amateur level certain facts speak for it. “Today Georgia cuts rates for Armenian goods 24 percent for oil products and 17 percent for the rest,” “But it makes a 50 percent discount for Azerbaijan . Besides, Georgia maintains a $1,500-$2000 tariff per freight car coming to Armenia , which also affects business.” Why the double standards and would you not agree that these kinds of examples does not help neighbors? Personally I think the whole region should be a free trade zone and development in Armenia enhances it in Georgia and vise versa. I married a Georgian Armenian and can testify that she was denied entry to university due to her Armenian last name and was told by the director at the university that she should change her name to a Georgian one. There are thousands of Armenians who have done that just to blend in and escape the discrimination. Personally I live the motto of “live and let live.” Anyway I hope you will stay around and it is mistake to assume we think all alike.Cheers Edited March 25, 2004 by Armat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mx5 Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 Once I was told by a friend that Georgia took advantage of every single Armenian misery. Stalin was a Georgian or i'm mistaken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 Armenia and Georgia are just another example of so many other neighbouring countries not so friendly attitude towards each other. It is true that in this particular case rivalry and mutual dislike are probably at a higher level than most but it is still the same phenomenon. Maybe it has to do with size. Georgia is an interesting case: a country that had the "privilege" of being run by one of the most senior cabinet members in the SU, no serious contentions with neighbours, friendly with the US and the EU and still a major mess where parts of the country continue to be outside central goverment control, the economy is in shambles and crime has not come under control. Nothing to be envied. Armenia ousted its second class Shevardnadze, for right or wrong, earlier. But its second "choice" was probably not the best, but still installing any semblance of democracy is not an overnight process and in my book Armenia is not doing that badly. Armenia and Georgia will always be client states of Russia. Georgia has attempted to stray away from it with friendly relations with the US during Shevardnadze, but it is inevitable that sooner or later it will come back to where it really belongs. I think as a result of Putin´s ever strengthening position and some re-ordering of Russia´s economy (still a long way to go, for sure) the country will re-assert itslef in its traditional areas of influence. Furthermore a Russia-EU rapprochement of a higher degree should not be discounted. We are still watching the sad remnants of the disintegration of the SU and the different attempts to create states. While the real power, Russia, doesn´get its act together it is less likely that the periphery will see any real stability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightOfArmenia Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Georgians? Pshah. C'mon, they are our bastard sons; bastardized son of our Church (until they attached theirs to the Russian one, I believe), bastardized son of our Alphabet (which they have mysteriously stopped accrediting to St. Mesrop Mashtots, I wonder why...). Armenia's military could topple Georgia in a straight fight; hell, Javakhk is basically off-limits to the Georgian military, as armed to the teeth as it is (more Armenians live there than in Artsakh; by some estimates, nearly 800,000). Georgia isn't a threat, it WANTS to be a threat. It is selling itself off to the United States in an effort to break away from Russia, but that is about as stupid as possible; I mean, c'mon, the US didn't back the Kurds against Saddam Hussein during the first Gulf War, and that was SADDAM HUSSEIN. We're talking about RUSSIA in this case. 20,000+ nuclear missiles, second (or third, depending upon who you believe) strongest army in the world? The fact that Russia has basically recognized the autonomy of S. Ossetia and Javakhk, among other places, shows that Georgia will never be able to stand independent, since much of its population is not Georgian. Consider that Tblisi's population at the start of the 20th century was nearly 80% Armenian, and even NOW is only some 70% Georgian. They barely make majority in many of their provinces, and are a minority in quite a few. You just can't make a strong central government if the ruling ethnic group DOESN'T have the numbers to back that. Oh, and as for the Russophile? Russia's actions, directly or indirectly, have led to the worst tragedies that have befallen our people. We have never received anything but a spit in the eye from the Russians; from the lies told to Davit Bek and Mkhitar Sparabet to get them to fight the Ottomans and Persians (and thus occupy them while Russia secured its own position then asked for a peace treaty, thus abandoning and dooming the last of the Armenian warriors) to the harsh Russification campaigns of the 1880s-1950s to the support of Azerbaijan for so long during the liberation of Artsakh (and the massacres of Sumgait, in which the "heroic" Russians waited a "short" 3 days to actually get out of their base and roll into town) to the occupation of Yerevan on May 27, 1990. I believe that it is high treason for someone to say "never forgive the turks, look what they did!" and "never forgive the azeris, they are monsters!" but to then roll over like a dog to the Russians. Wake up and smell the blood of your slain countrymen for Christ's sake. The only ones Armenia needs are the Armenians; if we actually stop betraying eachother for money and petty power-plays, we could become a powerful actor, not only in the Caucasus, but in the Eurasian sphere. Our nuclear power plant gives us a bargaining chip most people haven't realized (if, some day, Armenia is actually overrun by turkey, Great God forbid, be absolutely sure that enough nuclear material would have "vanished" to allow those "crazy Dashnaks" to either nuke or dirty bomb Constantinople, Ankara, and any other major turkish city), and our Diaspora is very skilled at PR (hell, we got France to recognize the Genocide with what? Charles Aznavour?). Also, don't forget that we ARE a martial and very militarily capable people; we have proved this time and again. Once more, it is only the BETRAYALS that have led to our downfalls. Again, consider: Metzn Tigran: defeated Rome, but his own son rose up in revolt against him and attacked him from the east with a Parthian army at the same time that Pompeius Magnus attacked with a new Roman army from the west. Vartan Mamikonian: had a history of defeating enemies, but lost when a third of what was supposed to be his army fought on the Persian side under the arch-traitor Vassak Syuuni. Gagik II: defeated Byzantium, but was captured after going to Constantinople to sign a peace treaty, and lost when the Catholicos and several major nakharars opened the unbroken gates of Ani to the Byzantine Greeks. Levon d' Lusignan: even though he wasn't an Armenian, he held off the Mamelukes repeatedly and had made Sis impenetrable, but lost when many other cities betrayed him when their nakharars chose the Mamelukes rather than a Catholic king, and when his ministers advised him to surrender the city so that the people might be spared (they weren't: Sis was massacred). Davit Bek: defeated the Ottomans, but was finally beaten when nearly half of his nakharars, fearing Ottoman might, surrendered the most heavily defended and valuable cities to the turks. Generals Nazarbekian and Silikian: defeated the turks at Sardarapat, Bosh-Abaran, and Karakilise, but were not permitted to follow the annihilated forces and secure Greater Armenia, or "carry the war to the turks" while the situation was favorable, thus dooming the Armenian Republic to the renewed turkish advance some 3 years later. Monte Melkonian and many others: defeated the Azeris, but were not permitted to follow the annihilated forces and secure as much territory as possible, thus forcing the Azeris to the peace table, rather than giving them enough land and enough of a favorable position that they still rattle their sabers at us; furthermore, the lands that Avo was aiming for are now the ones through which the Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan pipeline is going to run. There are many more cases, of course; we have always been betrayed by our own, and it is still happening. There are always those who worship some other race to the point of fellating it, calling their own countrymen stupid for not wanting to devote themselves to this other race. These are usually the ones who also end up betraying our people to this other race at the earliest convenience (Armenian Bolsheviks, for example, did at least as much to destroy the First Republic as did the turks). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastia Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Don't worry guys, when the Georgians attack, I'll save you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mx5 Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 knightofArmenia, i second you with everything you said. As it is also said: God protect me from my Friends,for I know my Enemies and how to deal with them!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 Georgian PM: I Am Proud That My Mom Is Armenian 11/06/2004 11:25 Non-partisan MP Gocha Pipia’s demand that all cabinet members be required to reveal their ethnic background and religious faith, caused an uproar during the parliamentary session on June 10, before the approval of the new cabinet by the lawmakers. Prime Minister Zurab Zhvania, who was delivering a speech over the new cabinet’s plans, said he “is proud of the Armenian origins of my mother. “But I am ashamed when I hear these kind of questions [referring to MP Pipia’s demand] raised in the Parliament,” Zurab Zhvania added. “These are the ravings of a madman. In a normal country, people like him [MP Pipia] are jailed," Economy Minister Kakha Bendukidze said in response to Pipia’s statement. Civil Georgia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted June 12, 2004 Report Share Posted June 12, 2004 Russia Calls on Georgia to Pull out Troops from Ossetian Conflict Zone / Civil Georgia, Tbilisi / 2004-06-12 12:43:44 The Russian Foreign Ministry demanded from the Georgian side on June 11 to follow agreements reached on June 2 and pull out extra forces from the South Ossetian conflict zone. “Georgia has not cancelled its checkpoints in the conflict zone. Moreover, these checkpoints have been strengthened by additional units of Georgian armed forces,” the statement issued by the Russian Foreign Ministry on June 11 reads. The Russian side insists “on unconditional fulfillment of the agreements reached on June 2” in frames of Joint Control Commission (JCC), involving Georgia, South Ossetia, the Russian Federation and the Russia’s Republic of North Ossetia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted June 12, 2004 Report Share Posted June 12, 2004 Prime Minister Zurab Zhvania, who was delivering a speech over the new cabinet’s plans, said he “is proud of the Armenian origins of my mother. Wasn't it Zhvania who denied having Armenian roots prior to the elections? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.